Toyota 4Runner

jmdaniel · January 2003

Has anyone seen closeouts on 2002s? Personally, I don't like the looks of the new ones, and if there are deals on the now obsolete model, sign me up!!

peter78 · January 2003

I think 2002's are long gone. Toyota dealers knew a new model was coming and had only a few when the 2003's came out. The last 2002 I have seen was in late November. You may find a demo or a slightly used pre-owned model. If there is a brand new 2002, I wonder if the rebates still apply?

backroadfan · January 2003

I am considering the purchase of a new 4Runner and like the concept of the X-Reas suspension. I generally do not like additional mechanical gadgets unless they really improve the safety or performance of the vehicle.

So my questions are:
1. Does the system really improve the handling in highway and/or off road situations ?
2. How much additional maintenance will the extra fluid lines, couplings and gas chamber require over a 5 year / 100k mile period.
3. If the system failed (leaked), would you be able to drive the vehicle back to civilization or would you be stranded ?

Thanks for any insights into this feature. I would probably buy an SR5 unless the X-Reas is really a significant added value and not a reliability risk. Then the Sport model becomes my next choice.

Robert

backroadfan · January 2003

Ken,

I see your post about the new Appearance Package for the SR5. Were there any other new options announced ? (Such as maybe the X-Reas suspension on the SR5.)

Thanks,

Robert

toyotaken · January 2003

There have been comments from people stating both sides of the debate. From my own experience driving both models, the X-REAS makes a significant difference in handling. There is less squat on acceleration, less brake-dive and less body roll while cornering. It does not, from my expereince reduce ride quality. Off-road, from the limited amount of time I've spent with the vehicle off-road, the X-REAS seems to help a bit with VERY uneven ground, but overall, you should be going slow enough over terrain like that so that it won't make a big difference.

As for reliability, there isn't any history with this type of suspension so there is no way of being absolutely certain. However, with that being said, the system is TOTALLY mechanical, so there should be no inherent reason for it to fail. If it does, it just will not compensate the way it does and should work like a vehicle without the system. I would guess that Toyota would not put the system on their vehicle unless they did some VERY extensive testing themselves to prove its reliability, so I wouldn't have too many concerns.

Hope this helps.

Ken

telitlikeitis · January 2003

I was also having trouble finding the Home Link buttons in the dark. I solved this by turning on the right hand overhead light by pressing it with my middle fingers. The resultant light shining on my palm, reflects onto to the Home Link buttons, allowing me to select the one I want with my thumb. This works like a charm. I suspect that Toyota will illuminate the buttons in the 2004 models.

backroadfan · January 2003

I appreciate your feedback on the X-REAS question. Your experience does seem to match many other comments about the system working well.

My concern about the failure modes came from seeing the rubber hoses coming from the top of the shocks which carry the fluid across to the opposing shock. Those hoses will be subjected to continuous flexing as the wheel bounces and if a hose ruptures you would lose all fluid for 2 of your shock absorbers. I guess this is no different than the brake lines on every car in the world.

At some point in the life of the truck the shocks will need replacing and I am guessing they will cost more because of the extra plumbing attachments and fluid replacement.

Thanks again,

Robert

pat84 · January 2003

You do bring up good point about replacement shocks. The replacement shocks may have no provision for the XREAS couplings.
We may be limited to Toyota replacements if we want to continue the XREAS.

backroadfan · January 2003

I have another 4Runner question about looks versus function (since I have never had a vehicle with a rear spoiler).

Does it actually help keep the rear glass clean ?

Does it increase the wind noise heard inside the truck ?

Thanks for the help,

Robert

toyotaken · January 2003

I have found that there is a VERY significant difference in "slab-backed" vehicles like minivans, SUV's, and the like with and without the spoiler. The spoiler makes a very significant difference in drawing airflow from over the vehicle down over the rear of the vehicle, reducing the turbulance and backflow caused when they go through the air. Both for rain and for snow, it keeps the rear window and hatch of the vehicle much cleaner.

I'm going to specify, however, that it is a rear wind deflector that actually draws air down from over the vehicle. There are some that I have seen out there either from aftermarket places or for other manufacturers that are just extensions on the top of the hatch. All of the Toyota ones that I have seen actually come up slightly above the level of the roof and have a "pass-through" for lack of a better description to draw air down over the rear.

Hope this helps.

Ken

pat84 · January 2003

If the rear spoiler is supposed to keep the rear window clean it doesn't work. It did not blow the snow off my rear window. My experience with rear spoilers is that it is supposed to direct air into the vacuum that forms behind your 4 Runner..
I had a Ford E-150 full size van many years ago. I put an after - market wind deflector on the roof of it for the same intended purpose. If I had my rear door windows popped out and it was raining, rain drops came in. That didn't happen before the wind deflector, so they do work to reduce the vacuum. That wind deflector was about the same size as the 4 Runners. As for additional noise, I am not aware of any, but I like my 10 speaker stereo up fairly loud

backroadfan · January 2003

Ken,

Thanks for the feedback on the deflector question. I can see that the Toyota deflector does have the "pass-through" shape so that it should move air down across the window. I personally prefer the looks without the spoiler but a cleaner rear window would be a plus.

I have a lot of respect for the Toyota engineering team but I must say that the fake hood scoop on the Sport model made me start to question other design features. I know it is an appearance thing that some people like and probably does no harm (other than catch dead bugs).

Thanks again. This board is a nice resource to have and I am just full of questions.

Robert

backroadfan · January 2003

pat84,

Thanks for the responses to my questions. I see you bought your '03 Sport on New Year's Eve and I got a kick out of your comment about the salesman saying you were his 1st customer to plan off-road use of your 4Runner. I am getting the same reaction to my questions about skid plates, ground clearance, mud traps, tires, etc.

I guess that is why they have built so many 2WD models. Like others on this board, I really want a 4x4 Sport model without the moonroof, running boards, 10 speakers, etc. Here in NC, all Sports have moonroofs and 10 speaker upgrade.

I hope you are enjoying the new truck.

Robert

peter78 · January 2003

Having driven both types of 2001 4Runner in the rain, one with a rear spoiler and one without, the rear spoiler is quite noticeable. When I drove my friends 4Runner without the spoiler, I had to use the rear window wiper right away. With my 4Runner I use the wiper, but not near as much. Maybe you have to drive one without to see the difference.

Truth be told, I only got the spoiler because it was part of a package and I wanted the other items in the package.

pat84 · January 2003

Thank, . I really do like the truck. I had a Honda Odyssey with a pathetic sound sytem. The 4 Runner sound sytem with the 10 speakers is top notch. My wife and I are going down to the outer banks in March. I'm going to check out the 4 Runner on the sand.

backroadfan · January 2003

OK, so I definitely learned something in your post. Thanks. The monotube shocks use nitrogen gas internally in addition to the hydraulic fluid to modulate the damping rate. And I also see that there are high performance systems with external nitrogen chambers for racing and high-lift vehicles.

In the case of the 4Runner XREAS, is it nitrogen gas that is cross-linked between the shocks ? I had the impression it was hydraulic oil that was channeled through the tubing with a low pressure nitrogen chamber in the center.

I still do not understand the mechanics of the external connections between the shocks.

Robert

creswei · January 2003

I have a 2000 aWD 4Runner SR5. It says in Specs that its tank can fill up to 18.5 gal. But Why every time when the gas light is on, I can onle fill up to 12 gal gasoline.

Can anybody tell me why? And by the way when the light is on, the gas meter also points to almost the end.

Thank you folks,

creswei

beagles3 · January 2003

They will be few and far between because of lack of inventory. I got lucky and found my Limited 4x4 in Jade Mica Green w/Thundercloud overfenders (which seemed to be a hard color to find) because it was a demo that the owner of the dealership was driving. It had 2600 mi and was 10 months old. It was sold to me as new and the rebates/% rates were not applicable to my model (bought in Dec 2002). I was able to go to my credit union and get the 5% rate. The dealer did give me almost $6,000 off the sticker,so, I felt a little better!

tak4x4 · January 2003

BackRoadFan,

The XREAS was a development between Yamaha and KYB Shocks. I hear ya in terms of the what the cost may be in terms of replacement. But, if they are anything like my Bilsteins on 86,92 and 97 4Runners, they should last a good 150,000 without any problems. My 92 has 197,000 with the Bilstiens from the getgo and still work very well.

Regarding the implementation of XREAS, I don't think most people realize is that Toyota had the XREAS option on the older 2001-2002 4Runners back in Japan. Therefore, I think they probably worked out most of the bugs by the time it came here on the new 2003 model.

Tak

jynewf · January 2003

There is a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) on 2000 4runners regarding faulty sensors and/or fuel gauge assemblies. If you go back a couple of years in the posts (if they still exist) you can probably find the correct TSB #. Otherwise, your toyota service manager should know about it, as it was a fairly common problem on 99-2000 4runners.

My 2000 4runner had the same problem, and was fixed under warranty (albeit back in early 2001 while under 15,000 miles).

rlopez2032 · January 2003

Fellow 4Runner Owners,

I know that Toyota recommends using premium unleaded on the 03 4Runners. Am I risking huge problems in the future if I ignore this recommendation and use regular unleaded? I would appreciate any input/advice.

peter78 · January 2003

Toyota has a Technical Service Bulletin
( TB- ELO10-00 ) for this problem. (That is from post 139 on this forum.) Read posts 34, 35, 45, 59, 70, 77, 86, 87, 90, 112, 114, 132, 138, 139 from this forum.

My 2001 fuel gauge works fine, about 16 gallons when the light comes on. Read all the posts I mentioned and you will get a better idea of the fuel gauge problem.

amara2 · January 2003

Thanks for the answer on the tires.

I proposed a tire swap for (270/70/17) -or any other combination- but my Toyota dealer did not want to do it because of warranty issues.
I tried to contact Dunlop (the product manager for the SUV line) with no success to see if they will come with new type of tires for off-road use.
I'll be very surprise that Dunlop does not add new type of tires when both the 4Runner and the Lexus are using the same size/brand.
I also check the "off road history" of Dunlop/Goodyear and their are very prone to side puncture.

Pat 84,
What kind of answer did you get from your inquiries? I agree that most dealers are very surprised that some people want to take this car off road. I got the comment (after I bought it)that the 2003 4Runner is no more than a highlander on streroids.

However there is enough room under the hood for an extra battery and an air compressor. Not to void the warranty I will ask Toyota to install them as well as off-road lights and front bar.

When ask about the cranking power of the battery I got two different answers 600cc and 1000cc. As for the alternator I got 110 and 160. Do you know which one is correct? Is it the same battery that is used on the 2002 model?
Any information on off road products made for Toyota 2003 4Runner will be appreciated. Also did anyone try to buy the shop repair manual from Toyota?

SINCERELY,

Amara2

mrwhipple · January 2003

One problem you might encounter with a slightly larger tire is in the spare tire carrier. It looks very tight as far as having any xtra space. Just moving up one series in size could be an issue.

Has anyone tried it yet? I would be curious to find out.

pat84 · January 2003

I have a link to a tire size compution from Mazda Miata. (I know what does that have to do with an SUV) I have owned so many vehicles I can't rememember them all. A reasonable size tire for the 03 4 Runner is a 285 60 17. Look at both the side and end view. I would keep the same spare for a .3 % difference in diameter.

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

I would go with a 60 series tire because it is fatter than the 65 series OEM. A 70 series tire is more narrow than the 65 series. I plan on taking my 4 Runner on the beach where a fatter tire would be better. The 70 series tire may be better in snow because it will have less rolling resistance. I wouldn't recommend going too far from OEM as it can effect ABS, and cause speedometer and odometer error. You wouldn't want your warranty expiring too fast.

superleggera · January 2003

After listening to many of you on this forum, I have decided exactly what I want and am ready to buy. Many of you mentioned this strategy of faxing several dealers and letting them compete for your business. How does this approach work? What should I do? Thanks for your help. Mackabee, your thoughts would be appreciated.

mrwhipple · January 2003

You would definitely need the spare to be the same size as the others due to the 4-wheel traction control.

The taller size would add a bit more height for clearance, which would be nice.

The shorter, fatter tire would be nice for handling, but might ride a little rougher due to less rubber from the wheel to the edge of the tire. For the spare, it might hang lower as well.

stever · January 2003

Blast Fax Car Buying

Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying

Steve, Host

cliffy1 · January 2003

Are you sure you really want to do that? That is the number one way to ensure you will get jerked at some point in the process. For some reason, the fax method gets much worse responses than e-mailing or calling.

I work in a dealership and I see how thing go on this end. The customers who tend to be the most satisfied are the ones the hook up with one of our more intelligent salespeople. The trick is how to end up with this person. I suggest calling the dealership and asking the receptionist who the most easy going and most competent salesman is. The operator will know. Then, set an appointment with that person.

You need to do your homework before going in. Have printouts from Edmunds handy, including TMV figures. If he can get to TMV or less, and you are satisfied with the process buy it and count yourself as lucky.

jkmfromla · January 2003

When I bought my car (IS300) in 4/01, I initially went to a dealer, but got jerked around. The salesman started ranting about how I was being unreasonable and how I was practically taking money from him. I went home, called 4 other dealers, and told the sales managers what I wanted and what I was willing to pay. All 4 called back, but only 1 with what I wanted. Went to the dealer, wrote a check and drove off in about 30 minutes. I actually got more car (dual-heated seats and LSD) for less than what the initial salesman was offering. I'm not saying this will work everytime, but you might want to try it and see how it goes. If it works, it'll save you a lot of time and effort.

superleggera · January 2003

Thank you for your response. I really do think that the personality of the salesperson is critical and you are correct in pointing out that finding the right one will make the experience more satisfying. Well, I've printed out reports from Edmunds, Intellichoice, and KBB, so I'm well prepared. I'll probably go in this weekend. Will let you know how it goes!

mrwhipple · January 2003

Do you know when the new Appearance Package hits the dealers?

pat84 · January 2003

I believe if you look at the End" view, you will see that there is more rubber on the road with the fatter tire. The difference in diameter of .3% less is neglible IMO.
The width of the fatter tire is much greater as can be seen in the End view. The white lines are the size of the OEM tire. You may be right about the traction control getting confused by an OEM spare tire. The use of a different size tire offers a greater selection of tires as well.

ainslb · January 2003

I am possibly considering a 2002 4Runner Limited from a dealer. The 4Runner has 22,000 miles and was driven by the owners daughter. He wants too much for the 4Runner, 29,900. I am considering offering much less and either buying or having them included an extended warranty. Is it possible to add a "Toyota" extended warranty on a used vehicle?
Thanks

cliffy1 · January 2003

I think Toyotaken addressed that one. If I remember correctly, it will be the middle of March.

For those who have not figured this out yet, Toyotaken is doing a REALLY good job of answering product questions. He obviously has access to Dealer Daily (our Intranet with Toyota) and is willing to share everything he can. Not that I'm giving up posting here, but Ken has been doing a great job.

cliffy1 · January 2003

Do not get a used car extended warranty.

Do not get a used car extended warranty.

Do not get a used car extended warranty.

Get the point? The vehicle is still under the 3/36K basic warranty and therefore still qualifies for a new car extended warranty. The new car warranty from Toyota covers a ton more equipment than the used car one. Included on the list of stuff covered by the new car but excluded from the used car is the CD player, traction control system, sunroof cables (a very expensive labor job), ignition coil, speedometer, charcoal canister and the heater core. There is a LOT more.

MSRP for the 6 year or 100K Platinum warranty is $1300 on the 4WD Runner. Actual prices vary (sometimes, a lot) and you don't have to buy it from the selling dealer. If you choose to go this way, insist on only the genuine Toyota Platinum warranty.

kjack100 · January 2003

Yes, by all means get a new car warranty, if you can. Cliffy, you're in that business aren't you? Can I still get in touch with you by clicking on your Edmund's username?

mrwhipple · January 2003

Thanks cliffy. I did look back and realized Ken addressed the issue.

pat84 - I was just referring to the height difference in the rubber with a taller series tire. There is more rubber to soak up the road imperfections and does a better job of flexing for off-road. There is a little bit more "cushion" in there between the rim and the road.

You're right about the width, there is more rubber on the road.

backroadfan · January 2003

Does anyone know if the 115V AC Outlet option can be dealer installed on a 2003 4Runner?

Thanks

chorton · January 2003

No that is a factory option only, to the best of my knowledge

beagles3 · January 2003

I have owned 3 4Runners and you do NOT need an extended warranty unless you just want throw $1300+ out the window. If it's going to break or have some type of multiple occurences,believe me, it will happen before your 36,000 mi warranty is up. I just traded in my 1999 SR5 4x4 4Runner w/110,000 mi in on an 2002 Limited 4x4 ( Loaded Demo w/2600 miles) and it ended up costing me $33,000,so, I would expect having 22,000 mi and 14,000 mi left of warranty, I would expect to pay around $28,000?? Maybe, I am way off? Here on the Westcoast, it's hard to deal get good deals on the Limiteds?

cliffy1 · January 2003

Why yes, kjack. You are correct about how to view a participants profile. Thank you for the timely reminder!

cliffy1 · January 2003

You are correct that $1300 is too much to pay. That is MSRP but they are sold for less.

kjack100 · January 2003

Manufacturer's warranties (not the junk ones)are a good idea if you are going to keep your vehicle well over the regular warranty period, e.g., if you kept the vehicle to about 80-90,000 miles. One, you have the benefit of being totally covered and two, the warranty adds some value when you sell it to a third party.

If you are not going to keep a new vehicle but three years, they are a bad idea. IMO, Ainslb's situation calls for a 'new car' extended warranty.

claymore1 · January 2003

This is great information from Toyota. Do you think there is any way that the Appearance Package can be ordered as an option for the 4Runner sports edition? I really can't stand the cladding. I took a closer look at them (and others) at the Greater Los Angeles Autoshow.

toyotaken · January 2003

Toyota is offering the appearance package ONLY on the SR-5 models. They still want to differientiate the Sport model by giving it a more "rugged" look with the grey cladding. I'm not sure if the accesory is going to be port or factory installed yet, but if it is a PPO option, it should be something available to your local dealer's parts department and able to be installed by the dealer. Now whether this will be cost efficient or not is another story, but just another alternative. BTW, I was told that painting the grey cladding is not a very viable option as it is treated with an anti-scratch coating so paint doesn't adhere to it well.

Hope this helps.

Ken

cliffy1 · January 2003

From what I have heard, it will only be available for the SR5. The Sport model, Toyota is really trying to make for sport. That means the ability to take it off road without scratching up the paint.

I know that is a stretch. I think the real reason is they don't want to admit complete failure to read the market reaction and will use the "sport" thing to justify it.

beagles3 · January 2003

I guess that I am confused? Can you buy the extended warranty that covers absolutely everything? Or does it cover the drivetrain and specified components, etc??

mackabee · January 2003

I have no problem with the "fax blast" just make sure the vehicle you are fax blasting exists. Look at the "build your own" section at "buyatoyota.com" or toyota.com and build your own. Then fax it to your favorite dealers. I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses that way. Good Luck!
&nbs- p; &n- bsp; : )
&nbs- p; &n- bsp; Mackabee

chorton · January 2003

You can buy a warranty that covers everything its calles the PLATINUM COVERAGE in most places

Toyota 4Runner

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