Toyota 4Runner

toyotaken · January 2003

Now if someone needs something that has 3rd row seats, I'm happy to show them what is available, but this is one case that I am going to give a personal opinion. First, I don't know if anyone has actually seen or for that matter tried to get into or out of, much less sit in the 3rd row seats on any of these mid-size sport utilities? You need to be a contortionist to get back there and unless you're a double amputee, forget about sitting in them comfortably.

Secondly, coming from my experience as an Emergency Medical Technitian, I don't like the idea of passengers that don't have a way of entering/exiting the vehicle easily. Add to that the fact that most (notice I say most, not all)of these vehicles don't have the rear crash-worthiness for even the middle row passengers to be safe much less passengers that are within a couple of inches of the rear hatch. Depending on the model, some don't even have 3pt seatbelts for all passenger seating positions.

This is a different matter for most full-size sport-utes as you have much more space between the rear seat and the rear hatch and more room in general along with access to the rear seats.

Just my $.02, and each is entitled to their own opinion.

Ken

cliffy1 · January 2003

Buy a minivan! Seriously. If you are moving a family of 5 or 6 around, why would you be stuffing them into a space that really isn't intended to carry humans in a vehicle with a high ground clearance anyway? Once you do pack everybody in, where are you going to put the luggage or even two bags full of soft ball equipment? This applies to any of the compact or mid sized SUVs.

If your needs are such that you need to transport more than 5 people, get over your vanity and get a minivan or step up and get something that was designed to handle a crowd like the Sequoia or Suburban.

toyotaken · January 2003

Actually, cliffy added the other beefs I have with 3rd rows in midsize SUV's. If you're transporting that many people, it's normally when you're picking them up at the airport, bringing the kids to soccer practice, etc. and you need lots of space for luggage. Opps, I forgot, with mid-size SUV's, with a 3rd seat there isn't any room for luggage.

For pete's sake, I'll add my vote to either bite the bullet and get a full-sized SUV or get a minivan.

Ken

rollie3 · January 2003

jcla7 I have a V6 Sport with a little over 1200 miles. So far I average 18.6 calculated myself and about 19.5 calculated by cars computer. Most of my miles have been city driving in cold weather. One trip over the mountains [freeway + highway] in snow and 4 WD I averaged over 20 mpg. I am pleased with mileage. In summer and on highway the V6 should do 23-24 mpg. The mileage is not much different that my G3 but new V6 is so much more powerful and smooth. The ride is so much better than G3 and quieter on the road. I paid $1500 more than for my 96' seven years ago. The new model is priced very well considering all the improvements Toyota has added to the 03".

docevil · January 2003

I realize the V8 is coupled to the 5-sp auto. And no, I have not driven a V8 'Runner. Does the 8 offer that much of a performance advantage over the 6? My point was that on paper the specs between the 2 engines are not that different. I'm sure Toyota could've offered the 5-sp auto with the V6. I kind of suspect the V8 option is motivated more by marketing.

cliffy1 · January 2003

The V8 is only $800 more and has a lot more torque and the 5 speed. For the money, I think it is a bargain. If you've driven the V8, you know what a rocket the thing is.

meemo87 · January 2003

I test drove both a Sport V8 and a Limited V6. I was very impressed with the power of both engines however, the V8 (by far) does a better job of slamming you back into your seat. I agree with Cliffy, only $800 more and not much of a decrease in gas mileage...bargain! I think the hp numbers are deceiving too, you really need to look at the torque to compare with other engines.

docevil · January 2003

I can appreciate what you're saying. No doubt the V8, with its higher torque, will result in more low-end grunt. But the 10 less HP, coupled with greater weight, must manifest itself somewhere, sometime. Perhaps in high-speed passing or hill-climbing?

toyotaken · January 2003

The other thing to consider when comparing the two engines is that they have the HP and torque numbers published on the V6 engine based upon using premium fuel. The numbers published for the V8 are using 87 octane. The V6 runs fine on 87, but you're talking about a reduction of about 10hp if you do, or add about 10hp to the V8 using premium. Just for comparison...

Ken

10scgirl · January 2003

Hi,
I just purchased a new 4Runner and unfortunately it did not have a security system. The dealership told me the engine imobilizer will not let the car be started without the correct key. A local alarm shop told me the car can still be hotwired past the steering column where the chip is located so I still need their security system. Why would Toyota have added the imobilizer since that's how cars get stolen. I spoke with the dealership again and they said the chip is not in the steering column and the security system option is an alarm that will protect from break in and is a plug in module to the existing imobilizer($539). Does anyone know which is true? Thanks for your help!

peter78 · January 2003

I wonder if you get the real world mileage figures of the V6 and V8 and then figure the difference between premium fuel for the V6 and regular for the V8 what the difference would be?

jbwh · January 2003

Another performance issue to keep in mind when comparing these two motors: "peak" specifications do not tell the whole story. Yes, both motors reach their peak torque at 3400 rpm, but they are much further apart at lower, cruising engine speeds. I cannot seem to find full graphs of torque vs. torque and HP vs. HP for the two, (did find one V6 HP vs. V8 torque that was useless) but a quote from one of the TV car review shows stated that the V8 has 80% of its torque available at 2000 rpm, where the V6 only has 60% at the same speed. So; at highway crusiing speed (legal anyway) of 110 Km/h (~67mph) my 2003 V8 Sport is turning around 2000 rpm and has ~255 lb.ft of torque available without down-shifting. The V6 would have ~170 lb.ft. The V8 has 50% more torque at that speed - a noticable difference. What that translates into is: when i set the cruise control on the highway, the transmision does not have to hunt around for the right gear to deal with hills or headwinds; the V8 just grunts out some more twist. My older V6 4Runner would struggle a lot with the hills and wind around here.

I assume that with the 4 speed, the V6 is turning faster at highway speeds, soit might be above the ~170 lb.ft, but I can't imagine it is very near the V8 - even with its VVTi system. A bit of a remble, but the point is: "peak" power or milage ratings may be a long way from what you experience or make use of in real world driving.

beagles3 · January 2003

Funny, awhile back I was comparing my 1999 SR5 V6 to my new 2002 Limited V6. After now putting 2500 mi on these new vehicle, I have found that it runs just as strong as my 99 did. I can still do (open highway/uphill/downhill) 80-90-100+,but, the difference and main complaint is that when in cruise, I mostly still have to turn the OD off (something I did very seldom in my 99) when climbing hills. It still has the power,but, it is limited while in cruise? Toyota just figures that it's due to it being an LEV vehicle, thus, pulling fewer rpm's at cruise speed? Anyway, I love my 2002 Limited:)

onyeiii · January 2003

I recall seeing the speed-torque curves when I was doing my research (I ended up buying the V8 sport version), but I don't remember where. IIRC - the torque curve on the V8 was relatively flat across the entire RMP range, while the torque curve for the V6 was fairly steep, very low at the lower rpms and peaking at about 80%. This made the decision to go with the V8 very easy for me - I plan on doing some towing with it, and having most of the torque at low rpm's is essential. This is also what gives the boost right off the line.

It has been explained to me before that torque is what gets you going quicker and higher horsepower results in greater top end speeds. I'm not sure if that's true. If it is true, we could expect that the V8 would be quicker 0-60, but the V6 might have a higher max speed, all other things (weight, etc) being equal.

vodgut · January 2003

I've only test driven the V8, but I've been very impressed with it. The low-end grunt is something I'm not really used to, as I drive a 1998 Audi A4 now. Interestingly, it also lacks the high-end burst that I'm used to in my Audi, but it continues to pull steadily throughout the entire rev range.

I imagine the 5 speed with the V8 also has a shorter first and probably second gears? That may make the initial accelleration better with that drivetrain than the 4 speed with the V6. It certainly sounds, however, that the V6 is more than adequate for the vehicle.

I'm still going over it with the wife, but if/when we end up getting one, it will be a V8 Limited. The heated seats are a must for her....

superleggera · January 2003

Under "Destinations" on the 4Runner mini-site at Toyota.com they have a tricked out Sport Edition. They took it up to Aspen with black rims, brush guards, extra lights. It looks great!

cliffy1 · January 2003

Here is how it works. Your engine has a computer. That computer is looking for a specific code before it allows the ignition system to function. If it does not get that exact code, the starter will crank but no spark will be generated. The code is stored in the key and is transmitted to the computer via a sensor near the key hole. If you bypass the steering column, the computer still does not get the correct code and therefore will not start.

The only thing an alarm is going to give you is an audible alarm if the thing is broken into. This will keep the petty thieves from steeling your CD collection.

beagles3 · January 2003

So, Cliffy based on that fact..It is not worth putting the factory alarm onto your vehicle? I had the vip 3200 factory system on my 99 and my 02 has the security (flashing light) function with the engine immobilizer,but, no glass breakage sensor, etc...

toyotaken · January 2003

I really think it depends on what your purpose is. If you want to keep your vehicle from being stolen, the transponder keys work as well if not better than the VIP3000/3200 systems. If you're trying to keep vandals and people from stealing items from inside your vehicle, the glass breakage sensor and horn/flashing lights is more effective. So it is more of a personal choice and where you live that determine it more than what one does a better job.

Hope this helps.

Ken

cliffy1 · January 2003

Ken is correct. Again.

The big, fat key of the engine immobilizer is sufficient for most people because car theft is the primary concern. For some, the added benefit of an actual alarm is worth a few more bucks.

pat84 · January 2003

I have had vehicles in which I installed after market alarms. One worked on the battery drain caused by the interior lights going on when a door was open. It was false alarm proof, unlike many alarms. (I spent a night in a motel listening to a Mercedes alarm false alarm all night).
The real problem with audible auto alarms is that no one pays any attention to them. I am sure thieves know this.
Check it out using your panic button. See who does anything.

stever · January 2003

I think there are a few around here that push the panic button now and then :-)

Steve, Host

jaredmsd · January 2003

First off, I have read all 330+ messages in the read-only thread for the 2003 4runner, but have not attempted the same in this thread, so please excuse any repetition.

When considering the V-6 vs. the V-8, I'm suprised I don't see any arguments for the V-6 citing the 4WD abilities (again see my intro if you have said it in this thread). In my opinion, when I heard that the V-8 was AWD and not a 4WD system that can be selected between 2WD, 4HI, and 4LO, I threw it out of my consideration instantly. I can't imagine trying to go offroad in an AWD vehicle and trust that the computer would make the same decisions as a true offroader would make when he/she could select the exact mode that they want. Does no one else have a problem with this? Since I live in So. Cal. I can't physically see a 4X4 4runner in any shape or form, but from what I can gather, the V-8 has only one setting, no? Or am I totally wrong and you can select a 4LO setting?

cliffy1 · January 2003

I think you are mis-reading what is meant by AWD. This is not your traditional AWD system. It is better described as a full time 4WD system but AWD is easier to type. It does have the option of locking the center differential and it does have the ability to select high and low gear ranges. The only thing it will not do that the V6 will is to go into 2WD. Other than that, they are identical systems.

In the V6, when you shift into 4WD, you have put yourself into the same mode as the V8 is always in.

jaredmsd · January 2003

I am in the process of special ordering my 4runner from the factory and I have a couple last minute nagging questions. If you wonder why I'm special ordering read below the questions.

What is the double-decker cargo shelf exactly?
Is it literally a shelf that can be removed, and/or replaced with a piece of plywood costing $80 cheaper? Or is it something permanently attached to the wheel wells that raises and lowers? Does anyone have some experience with this option so far?
Last, I've got offers of about $1000 over invoice on a V-6 4WD Sport special order. Has anyone had better luck, or should I just stop trying?

Here's why I'm special ordering (warning complaints follow):
As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm living in
Southern california, and there are NO 4X4 4runners here. None is literal, not a few...none. To top it off, the only 4X4's I can find in the sport have added JBL, sunroof,... every other option that I don't want/need. All of these are found in Northern California btw. I think it is stupid to spend $3000 in options that you don't want in the first place. So, I am willing to wait the 3.5 to 4 months to get a car I really want, so I'm going to order the damn thing. Not that any of you care, but I'm sure that some were wondering why the hell I would special order a car, when there are plenty on the lots.

jaredmsd · January 2003

Thanks for clarifying. My assumptions are the penalty of living in So. Cal. I guess. So as far as I can tell, the V-8 is tried and tested, only gets 1mpg lower than the V-6 (is this REALLY true?) and costs roughly $800 more. I don't know, I'm coming from a 190hp '95 chevy blazer and test drove the v-6 4runner with many smiles. My only concern would be pointing that v-6 straight up a hill and it not having the torque to make it up. Can anyone help me out here (towing is not a consideration, merely offroad prowess)?

Again, thanks cliffy.

toyotaken · January 2003

First, there will be no problem with lack of torque on the V6 engine. It is just comparably less than the V8. The V8 engine makes this a VERY quick vehicle. The V6 does a very good job as well, but doesn't quite have the same "snap" off of the line.

As for ordering, just to keep you informed, you can order a vehicle from Toyota, but there is NO guarantee that they will build it. For domestic built units, from my own personal experience it can take as long as 6 months to get the vehicle and again, no guarantees. I have NEVER had any luck ordering a vehicle built overseas but that does not mean that it can not be done. I wish you luck in your order in any regard.

Ken

cliffy1 · January 2003

I have done Japanese build orders. I hate them. A lot. Most customers get impatient 6 weeks into the wait and ask if I have an update. I don't. I can't. From the day we place the order until the boat is approaching the port we get no communication other than a confirmation. They WILL build it eventually but we never know when.

Customers hate answers like that and within 6 weeks, they start asking "how close to my desired equipment can you get me one next week?" It always happens. That $3000 you didn't want to spend doesn't look so bad any more for some reason. Because of this, most dealers don't accept special orders on Japanese built vehicles. The only exception I know to this in Southern CA is Carson Toyota's Internet department.

Because of the difficulty and hassle, most dealerships will not negotiate very hard. I'm actually surprised at the $1000 over invoice figure. My advise would be to take that IF you have confidence that they will actually process the order. Paying a few dollars more to an honorable dealership is worth the money in the case of a build order. Otherwise, you are likely to get a call in 6 weeks telling your the truck has arrived only to discover it isn't what you wanted. Does it sound like I've heard this one before?

steveb84 · January 2003

jaredmsd,

Make sure you are talking to someone who is well informed on the ordering process. Here in the Chicago region we are not able to special order 4Runners until further notice. Maybe you are ordering a model that is available elsewhere, and not a specific built-to-order unit.

Just make sure things are crystal clear, otherwise your salesperson will call you in three months and say "we can't get what you want"

Good Luck !!!
Steve

cliffy1 · January 2003

Did you ever see the movie Vacation? Remember Chevy Chase in the parking lot of the dealership, "That isn't the car I ordered." Sure it is! Why that's the Family Truckster!

beagles3 · January 2003

I just have one comment concerning your special order...With such an investment in your new 4Runner, may I suggest contemplating the resale value? Most of us (I hope so?) like the added equipment of the moonroof, convenience pkg, etc...and when it comes to resale value, you can't go wrong! But, we all have our wants/needs. I know that my husband (he's 6'4) finds with the sunroof that it robs him of headroom,so, the sunroof is not important to him,but, it is to me on those nice sunny days we get once in awhile up here:)

jaredmsd · January 2003

Well, from the fleet managers/internet sales managers that I have talked to two were quite confident that they could order the vehicle. Toyota of Hollywood and Poway Toyota (I live in San Diego) both told me the same things Cliffy said, that the order gets sent in, and they are notified when it gets accepted for build, but then after that, they won't know until 2-weeks before its at the store. Both said though, that if it's not EXACTLY what I wanted, they'll refund my deposit (both said $1000 down) and keep it as stock. They also said, that they have good experiences with special orders all coming in about 3 or 4 months and always being spot on.
Yes I'm concerned about ordering, but vanity/money is not the only reason for not wanting some options (I won't go into details here), but if anyone can find a 4wd sport in cali w/o a sunroof, let me know! BTW, why the hell are the 'options' called options when every vehicle i've seen has the exact same configuration! I mean not EVERY california is some yuppy family person who buys hummer's to go to starbucks. Some of us actually want to go offroad and want 4wd without all the useless bells and whistles. Okay, no more complaining.. sorry. Thanks for all you guy's help.

-Jared

nippononly · January 2003

well, I have just finished a ten-day rental (from TRAC) of a 4WD V-6 SR5, and two things are clear:
(1) for everyone looking for a much better car than the 3rd gen Runner, this is it! Power even in the V-6 is exorbitant - this is a sport-ROCKET vehicle, not an SUV. Mileage though is worse than my '90 V-6...about 18 mpg in 1200 miles of driving. I ran it on 87 octane because that is what the dealership folks said to do - no problem at all. Passenger space is way better than the old ones, front and back. And inside is quiet, quiet, quiet.
Also, it FINALLY has rear discs, and I thought the braking was excessively good too. I am not a big fan of the new HVAC design - I prefer rotary dials - but it works really well. Steering is much quicker than the old ones - it seemed to be about 3 turns lock to lock. My favorite feature: that starter thing...now you start it like a Prius - simply turn the key and let go even if it is still cranking - it will quit as soon as the engine fires.

(2) I will never own one of these - the reviews 50 posts back talking about its off-road "prowess" have clearly never been offroad. The thing is WAY too heavy - I am talking several hundred pounds. Where the previous ones let you know where the wheels were and what kind of traction you had, the new ones feel completely numb - no road or ground feel at all. It is also noticeably lower - rampover is shot vs the previous ones, and also the departure angle is terrible - I managed to scrape the bumper going up a steep driveway, for goodness sake. The 4-8 degrees it has been reduced from the previous Runners has made all the difference.

My feeling is that since the highlander is kind of an in-between size vs the other utes on the market (smaller than Pilot, bigger than CRV), and since it is in the primary money-making segment of the SUV market, and finally because it is still several years to the next HL revamp, Toyota decided to make the Runner into a mainstream soccer-parent model so as not to lose the customers, especially to Honda. I have driven the Pilot, and if I were in the market for a soft-roader, 4Runner is the way better choice, except for real-world gas mileage.

Just for laughs I took my '90 Runner out to a couple of forest service tracks to check out where there were clearance and traction challenges (the '90 could drive the whole route without a problem), then repeated the same route in the '03. The new one repeatedly scraped and actually ground out a couple of times before I was halfway through. In the interests of not messing up a brand new vehicle (300 miles on the odo at that point), I chose to turn back. And my '90 is pretty much stock, with the larger stock tires.

I would think any SERIOUS offroad stuff like desert sand would be a major problem in the 4th gen just because of weight alone - I would not want to take it onto sand at all.

There are few choices left in SUV-dom for offroaders, and it was nice that Runner was one of them up until last year. Oh well. In every other way, this is a much much nicer everyday driver than the older ones were. They should make a TRD street suspension package for it, and make XREAS standard across the line.

jaredmsd · January 2003

Nippononly,
What would consider better offroad '03 vehicles in the same price range or lower?

The only other's I looked at were the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Jeep Rubicon. My major complaints are their service records and the fact that there is NO room in these things. I don't know about everyone else, but I personally go offroading with a couple of friends and all our gear, and personally I wouldn't ask my enemy to sit in the back of a grand cherokee. And the rubicon, as wonderful offroad as it is, I can't imagine having it for anything other than a sole offroad vehicle, and if I had the money to buy one truck for hauling gear, and another for just going offroad, I would just get a 50k hummer h2. Seriously, if you have any other suggestions I'd like to know. Because when considering all aspects including cost and room, the 4runner sport looks about the best you can get for under $35k.

-Jared

clpurnell · January 2003

I don't know but will toyota dealers do dealer trades on the new 4runner. I don't know if they can go across regions with their wacky distrabution network and all. If they can that might be a better way to get a truck than special odering it. It may not be exact color etc. but I'm sure you could get a 4x4 no roof in chicago or MN or Iowa or somewhere like that.

jaredmsd · January 2003

I'll ask the internet managers about that, so far they seem to only be looking for the cars in California, but I'm sure they'd find something in Oregon or something like that. Their seems to be dealers here on the board, so can you do cross-state ordering?

nippononly · January 2003

well, it may be true that in the age of soccer-saturated SUVs, there isn't much left out there that can do both weekend offroad and weekday commute duty...it may be a pick-up truck for me! Seriously, the choices are very limited, as you say. My disappointment comes from the fact that for a dozen years Toyota has made a pretty darn good one, and as far as I am concerned they could have continued the 3rd gen for another dozen years, with a 10% bump in power, leaving everything else alone.

I was thinking not just of the Jeeps, but also possibly a Land Rover, which would be in roughly the price territory of the new Runner...and laugh if you will, but I would not be adverse to at least checking out the Touareg when it arrives, although it is unibody with IRS.

The only other option I can think of right off the bat is Xterra, and I have not had the chance to really check that out yet. It is a full-frame truck which would be about the same price with the supercharged engine and offroad tires, PLUS you can get a manual and it has a low-range. I do not know how offroad-ready it is when it is stock though.

superleggera · January 2003

In Northern California (a short drive away!) it's actually hard to find a 2WD! You may want to come up here. Most of the 4Runners I have seen are 4WD.

cliffy1 · January 2003

I'll bet the dealership guys loved you!

peter78 · January 2003

"Nippononly", I enjoyed your review of the 03 V6 4Runner. The Good, Bad and Ugly.

jaredmsd · January 2003

BTW, after calling two fleet managers, they said that they can't do dealer trades outside of california mostly because of emissions issues. And they even told me that it was illegal for me to drive to another state to buy a car and to register it here, but I'm not too sure about that as long as I get a california emissions car.

-Jared

P.S. Taking a rental car up forest service roads really makes me feel bad for that dealer. 300 miles, but offroad damage makes me think that they won't rent you another car.

stever · January 2003

I don't think you're getting the "whole" story. Check out the archived Importing to California discussion for some talk, links and phone numbers you can call to verify.

Steve, Host

nippononly · January 2003

the TRAC folks at my local dealership are pretty cool about everything, and don't worry, getting grounded out and stuff was all at low speed, I didn't damage the thing. You can bet if I had I would have been paying through the nose for that. I sort of knew where to expect trouble anyway, so I was going extra slow in those parts.

As far as scraping the bumper, that was early on, and it scraped underneath on the asphalt. It came as a total surprise to me, I didn't expect that to happen in an SUV, especially a Runner. I got more careful after that.

So don't feel too bad for the TRAC folks! When I picked up that particular truck, it only had 15 miles on it, and since I returned it, no-one seems to want to rent it, so it looks kind of forlorn just sitting there(I drive by there on my way to work). OTOH, the last of their '02 Runners are moving over to the used car lot in the next couple of weeks...it kind of has me thinking... :-)

(the kind of thoughts that always cost me more than I can afford!)

mrwhipple · January 2003

jaredmsd - have you tried Las Vegas? They seem to have very different option availabilities, especially the JBL systems.

nippononly - Too heavy... the Disco is very heavy, with less power and does quite well. It too has a short breakover angle.

4200 (V6) & 4400 lbs. (V8) isn't too bad for a vehicle its size.

I agree the Runner should have remained at 11" instead of dropping it to 9.1" of clearance. What were they thinking!

beagles3 · January 2003

I agree with Steve about getting a vehicle from another state. I live up here in Wash State and I was on the hunt for a 2002 Limited 4x4 with the convenience pkg, etc and in the two -tone Jade Mica Green/Thundercloud overfenders...None could be found up here in the 5 state NW search,so, I started searching in Carson City/Reno area (because it's about a 12 hr drive from home) and a salesman @ Carson City Toyota located a vehicle for me in So Calif. I asked him since California seemed to have different emissions that it would pose a problem in my bringing the veh up to Wash State. I was told that there were no differences in the emissions anymore and that auto manufacturers no longer had the stipulation of "California Emissions" labeled on cars anymore (like the past few years and espescially with the LEV vehicle labeling). Anyway, deal did not work out because he wanted to charge me MSRP for the deal + shipping:(

cliffy1 · January 2003

Whatever dealership fed you that line should be the first one scratched off your list. That is a complete and total lie. While you can't buy a car with 48 state emissions and bring it in as a new car, you certainly can buy one that is 50 state certified such as the 4Runner!

The real reason for not doing out of state exchanges is the cost of transportation. They literally must have it sent on a flat bed which can cost over $1000. You would be better off flying to a place like Colorado and driving it home.

How am I so certain of all of this? Because I've sold three cars to CA residents who flew to Virginia and drove home. One was a Tundra and I had to find a CA emission truck for him. Another was a used T100 and used cars have different requirements. The last one was a 2000 Land Cruiser that I had shipped. The LC is a 50 state vehicle and there was no problems other than a screw up at the New Jersey based transport company.

Here is how you would handle buying out of state: Pay for the car either by check of finance. Get a set of temporary tags. You will not pay the sales or title tax to the state it is purchased in. You will be sent a "Certificate of Origin" once your check clears. Take that to the CA DMV and pay the sales tax for CA at that point. A title will be given to you if you paid cash or will be sent to the lien holder listed on the CO. Its that easy which is why your CA dealer tried to get you off it.

beagles3 · January 2003

I think that it would be cool to p/u a rig in a different state and drive it home. Get to try out the 4wd in the Sierra's, Cascades, Continental Divide, etc...

Got to go where you get the best deal (within reason) and then plan a mini vacation:)

cliffy1 · January 2003

That's exactly what the Tundra guy did with me. He contacted me as a result of participation here and had always wanted to drive across country. He was a retired airline pilot who owned a small vineyard in the Napa Valley. He took 2 weeks driving home because he wanted to enjoy the trip.

In case you are wondering, no, we don't get the Sport model here without a moonroof so there isn't a chance of Jared doing the same. Colorado is probably his best bet.

steveb84 · January 2003

Just for fun I ran locators for an 8666 - 4WD V6 Sport with no Sunroof.

I checked the following regions and found none: Portland, Denver, Kansas City, San Francisco, Los Angeles.

Best of luck with the Special Order, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Steve

jaredmsd · January 2003

First off, thank you all for the suggestions, help. As per someone's suggestion yesterday, I have contacted Carson Toyota in L.A., and they seem to be the most knowledgeable internet sales crew that I have talked to. Their head manager is looking into some options for me, and she seems pretty realistic, so if she says she'll know in two weeks if an order would go through, I'll have to trust her. In the mean time, a 4 month wait might not be so bad, because I still have to sell my current truck first.

BTW, I still had one question, has anyone seen or had the double-decker cargo shelf option? I thought it was just a board of sorts that sits on the wheel-well, but someone on the other thread alluded to not being able to remove it, is this true? I can't find any at the dealership to check it out.

Toyota 4Runner

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