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Side note - the Civic CNG also requires a filling station be installed at home, if you want that capability that is. I think at first the cost was included but later it was extra-cost.
Don't ask me why but I hate stopping for gas, so I can understand the value of the convenience of filling up at home.
My baseline is 324 KWH. My bills averaged $93 per month in 2011. We are very cost conscious on leaving lights or using the AC when the house is below 80 degrees. My neighbor has many $400 months when AC is needed. The Solar people told me they could not save me any money. And on that 27 cents for tier 4 you left out all the taxes and service charges. SDG&E does offer a night charge rate. Still way above the national 11 cents per KWH.
So I have to repeat, that an EV without solar in So CA is not at all cost effective. Without the generosity of the tax payers they are a complete waste of money.
I hate stopping for gas as well. I've become the designated fueler for all three cars. My wife hasn't pumped gas in 14 months. Here's the kicker - I try to fuel up all three cars on Saturday so all are good to go for the week.
IF you have a short enough commute. I talked to a guy with a leaf. His wife drives it to work 35 miles each way. They have a charging station at her work location. More than once she has come out in the afternoon to find someone had disconnected her car and made it marginal getting back up the hill to home.
I also hate stopping for gas. That is why a diesel that gets twice as many miles on a tank is the best choice for me.
Last I read the home fill units for CNG are not available. PHILL went bankrupt last I read. They cost about $4000 plus installation. And you have to have a high flow rate from your gas company.
I give you great credit then. I have not had a month under 600 KW in the past year and my bill averages about $150. Last month was 1700 KW - we had a few warm days, I know work from home and I have two teens who seem to think I own the electric company - I've waited years to use that phrase .
And on that 27 cents for tier 4 you left out all the taxes and service charges.
Are those fixed costs or based on the usage? If fixed, then your cost per KwH goes down the more you use. And I was wrong on my costs. I only looked at the delivery charge for my power - I didn't include the Generation Charges.
Together I pay 15.2 cents per KwH bringing my per mile cost to 4.81 cents. So 25 miles costs me a little over $1.20 - still more that 70% less than the $4.10 gallon of gas.
In your case, 34 cents per KwH will bring your cost to 11 cents per mile. 25 miles is $2.75. I'll be generous and give your Sequoia 25 miles per gallon and $4 for regular in San Diego - yeah I'm really generous - you'll save over 30% by driving an EV.
Now I'm not saying that it's the perfect solution for everyone but please don't dismiss it for everyone just because it doesn't work for you.
In that case, I agree it's not the best solution for them. When I was commuting it was 35 miles round trip. That would work. If I had to rely on charging at work, I'd have to reconsider it.
BTW, tell her to go outside more often and make sure nobody has unplugged her - I'm guessing she knows who is doing it so they can plug in theirs.
That's one area where you and I could not agree more.
Drive me nuts when they make tanks smaller just because MPG is up. The Prius C holds just 8.9 gallons. That's dumb! You probably only use about 7.5 gallons of that, so range is severely limited.
The new Golf 1.6TDI holds 13.2 gallons, but the old one took 14.5!
Didn't your old Passat have an 18 gallon tank? Now you're talking. Fill up once a month!
What's the point of high MPG if you can't enjoy driving by gas stations again and again (and again)?
I would think she should check it at least at Lunch. It is in the Navy depot parking lot. Don't get me wrong. I would have an EV if I could figure out a good use to justify it. Being retired and not putting that many miles on a vehicle per year makes it difficult to justify. And it would be better than any vehicle we currently have. Best is the the old LS400 that gets maybe 17 MPG on premium. If I was looking for a commuter vehicle I would pencil out a Golf TDI to a Leaf for a comparison on cost per mile.
Kids are difficult to train when it comes to lights. We have 56 recessed lights and I changed them all to CFL when SDG&E had a promotion. I got rid of the hot tub we rarely used and only turn on the AC when it is over 80 degrees in the house. Both my wife and I are very good at turning out lights. We train our grandchildren to do the same when they visit.
The guy with the Leaf said SDG&E gives you tier one rates on a separate meter for an EV charging at night. So you have a separate meter base and box for just your EV.
We had this conversation before. I've switched over 13 recessed lights in my kitchen/great room to LED's. That was about the time I started working from home. My energy use is about the same.
The guy with the Leaf said SDG&E gives you tier one rates on a separate meter for an EV charging at night.
So tier one is 14 cents vs 27 cents - that's a 50% decrease in driving costs. Heck, it makes it less than mine.
Like I said earlier, it won't work for everyone but for those for which it can an EV is a great alternative.
An EV could work well for a retiree if the extent of their travel is going to the doctor in town, off to Wal-Mart and then racing down to Red Lobster to make the early bird!! God I hope I never fall into that rut. Maybe Yakima will make attachments for the Volt someday.
Yeah, especially since for every gallon of capacity you give up, you're only saving something like 6.2 pounds of weight.
I think it's a bit annoying that my new "hybrid" (hey, a few years back, the Hemi ads said it burned gas and rubber :P ) probably has a larger range, with its 26 gallon tank, than many economy vehicles.
One car that I thought had a really good balance of economy and range was the 2007-12 Altima. 20 gallon tank, and an EPA rating of 23/32 with the 4-cyl.
the 2013 is rated at an impressive 27/38...but the tank has shrunk a bit, to 18 gallons. At least cruising range actually went up though...to 684 miles in highway driving, versus an already impressive 640. But, of course, that's presuming you drive the car until it runs out of gas, and hopefully you have the common sense not to do that!
Looks like the 2012 Accord was around 18.5 gallons, and they shrunk it to 17.2 for 2013. The 2012 Camry is a bit smaller at 17. Not *too* bad though...that's what my Intrepid had. But, the 2011 had 18.5 gallons.
So, it looks like this fuel tank shrinkage isn't just happening in economy cars.
I wonder if tank shrinkage might also be a result of consumers complaining about the cost of filling up. I'd venture to say that most say "It cost me $70 to fill my tank this week" rather than "It took 16 gallons to fill the tank this week."
There are literally hundreds of thousands of Retirees already using EVs for all the short trips. Most of the retirement communities are laid out ideally for using golf carts. The Villages in Florida is just such a place. My friends that live there rarely drive their RX350.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrpq5A-KAoA
I'm well aware of that. My in-laws live in a retirement community about 15 minutes from the Villages. The Villages development is more of a self contained city (it's population is over 60,000) with it's own hospital, many chain stores and restaurants and the like. Because it's a planned community, they were able to incorporate the use of golf carts into it. My in-laws use a golf cart within their complex but it can't be used outside to reach shopping and doctors. And those golf carts are a little useless during the rainy season.
But the vast majority of retirees don't live in self contained places like the Villages. If I were to retire here in my town, I could get by with an EV because everything I need is close by. But I'd need something with greater range to reach the mountains and bike trails.
BTW, get a book called Leisureville - it's written by a younger man who went behind the Emerald City to expose the seedy side of the Villages. One rumor is that the Villages has a high incidence of STD's. Better bring some penicillin when you visit!!
The trickle down effect went in the opposite direction. :shades:
Yeah, that could very well be. On the flip side though, I've heard people make a comment like "I went XXX miles, and only used a half tank" thinking that they got really good fuel economy. But what they forget to mention is how big the tank is, and that the gauge isn't totally accurate, so the second "half" goes down a lot quicker than the first! :P
True, but why?
True, but why?
Ah grasshopper. That answer is kept secret by the one who knows the whereabouts of the missing socks. It is a mystery best left unrevealed.
An innovative and efficient plug-in hybrid drive based on a purpose-designed
1.5-liter three-cylinder TFSI and two electric motors redefines the benchmark, with fuel consumption of only 1.1 liters per 100 km (213.81 US mpg) and CO2 emissions of just 26 grams per km (41.84 grams per mile).
The result is a cosmopolitan vehicle that will appeal to young, sporty customers in particular thanks to its removable roof and the customizable services available under the Audi connect concept.
http://www.desktopmachine.com/press/1776/Audi_Crossline_Coupe_Concept//25781/
Wish I could do Photoshop though. That grill is just asking for a big 3 prong outlet to be superimposed on it.
Wish I could find some images of that moveable trunk.
"Assuming that everything else is equal, the larger an electric vehicle's battery capacity, the greater its cost disadvantage relative to conventional vehicles -- and the larger the tax credit needed to make it cost competitive," the report stated. "Conversely, electric vehicles with small batteries are more cost-competitive."
Big Battery EVs Under Fire
I'd guess that cost is the reason. Hybrids and diesels each cost more than gasoline engines. I'm thinking that a diesel hybrid doesn't offer sufficient fuel economy improvement over a gasoline hybrid to justify the incremental cost. The incremental improvement of diesel over gas is greater than diesel hybrid over gas hybrid because the IC engine shares the work with the electric.
Yes, I still have the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS and although it needs a bath pretty badly I'm glad I chose the Rally Red color and kept to the waxing and protectant routine every 6 months with Avondale Mitsubishi. It's paid off.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I think our dreams of having a practical EV are still a long ways off.
Bailo also said Nissan expects the roughly 450 Leafs its sold in Arizona to have an average battery capacity of 76 percent after five years -- a slightly worse rate of shrinkage than elsewhere -- with some owners suffering more. That did little to assuage worried owners about their newfound range anxiety; as one posted on the MyNissanLeaf forum after Bailo's letter: "If they truly believe this they would have a better battery warranty. I LOVE my Leaf, but I can't recommend them anymore because of this issue."
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/nissan-leaf-battery-troubles-owners-negat- ive-shock-180958755.html
Notice how BYD and their e6 have made a gigantic flop of their "dreams" to import the e6 here, with it's range of 250 miles and top speed of 100mph? Right.
Of course, they were planning on charging around $40,000 for that one, too, though.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
More than a dozen Fisker Karma plug-in hybrids caught fire at a shipping facility in New Jersey after being submerged in seawater during Hurricane Sandy.
The fire in Port Newark burned 16 of the $100,000 vehicles after a storm surge submerged the cars, which are produced by Anaheim-based Fisker Automotive, the company confirmed.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/fire-376417-company-fisker.html
Leno just tested a Model S and loved it.
Meanwhile, CR's Fisker broke down completely and needed a tow. Embarassing, plus these fires, yikes.
Fiskers have a gas tank, so I bet the gas fuelled the flames (eventually), but the batteries started it.
Salt water in the electrics = not good.
May be a long time till they figure out what happened there.
"After a thorough inspection witnessed by (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) representatives, Fisker engineers determined that the damage to the Karmas was the result of the cars being submerged under 5-8 feet of seawater for several hours that left corrosive salt in a low-voltage Vehicle Control Unit in one Karma," the company said.
"The Vehicle Control Unit is a standard component found in many types of vehicles and is powered by a typical 12V car battery. This residual salt damage caused a short circuit, which led to a fire that heavy winds then spread to other Karmas parked nearby."
Fisker Reveals Cause of Karma Fires During Hurricane Sandy (Inside Line)
The battery pack stores a LOT more energy than a regular 12v pack and relies on liquid cooling and all sorts of sophisticated engineering to cool itself.
Not that cars must be built to withstand floods, but the statement is extremely misleading.
The Fisker is not new to fires.
The company previously had incidents of cars catching fire, one in California related to a cooling fan, and one in Texas for which the cause is still being determined, the company said.
http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2012/11/06/sandy-swamped-shipment-of-more-than- -300-fisker-cars/
http://green.autoblog.com/2012/11/07/fisker-loses-over-300-karmas-in-sandy-flood- s-at-port-newark/
Those didn't catch fire, though. Maybe the 12v battery was dead!
15,000 unsold vehicles, but NADA is saying it could have destroyed 200,000 personal vehicles! Yikes.
Hopefully with good insurance.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/02/electric-car-owners-unfazed-by-storm/-
Nissan Motor CEO Carlos Ghosn finally admitted the automaker will not meet its sales target for its all-electric Leaf — in another sign of the broad struggle of the electric vehicle industry.
"The forecast we have given ourselves for the year will not be reached," Ghosn told Bloomberg Television in Mexico City on Thursday.
Despite months of lagging sales, the Japanese automaker has steadfastly refused to acknowledge that it could not double sales in 2012 to 20,000 after selling nearly 10,000 in 2011.
In October, the Leaf also had its best month all year, selling 1,579, up 86 percent from a year ago. For the year, Nissan has sold 6,791 Leafs, down 15.6 percent from this time a year ago.
Nissan sold 9,679 all-electric Leafs in 2011.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121115/AUTO0104/211150461/1361/Nissan-CEO-a- bandons--12-electric-vehicle-sales-target