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Will Green Cars Be Exciting To Drive And Enjoyable To Own?

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Volt sales just hit an all time high, new record last month: 2961.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    They are selling at invoice to unload the 2012 models sitting on the showrooms. CA has given them the HOV sticker as well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True, but hybrids and even diesels had incentives for a while (now expired).

    Obviously not as big, but hybrids and diesels used that to become more or less mainstream.

    It's a tougher battle for EVs given their cost.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2012
    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Funny, but I think they've come up with a standard interface.

    Our garage has 2 EV charging spots, and they only charge about 1/3rd of what it would cost to charge at home given the rates here.

    I've seen one Volt and one Prius plug-in, so not many takers.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The one Leaf owner I talked to said his wife has had her car unplugged several times in her parking garage. It is the Navy parking garage in downtown San Diego. The time stops when you unplug so it does not cost her for the person that unplugs it. Just disconcerting to come out after work and your EV is not charged up. It takes most of a charge to get home the 35 miles as it is mostly up long grades on I8. A big downside of owning a pure EV.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wonder why, maybe a Hummer owner tired of all the smug looks? :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    No it was people pulling the plug out and charging their Volts and Leaves. She left her car 8 hours while at work. Someone comes in charges for a few hours and leaves. Doesn't say much for the class of people that own plug-in vehicles. Not sure how long it takes for a full charge.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've had people cut in front of me in line for gas, so I wouldn't judge based on that alone.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OawY6sUAn3g

    Still can't get used to not hearing any engine noise.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    “Cars today almost without exception are a technology product which drives environmental awareness and fuel efficiency. It’s not just luxury. Manufacturers are making progress even with better ways of making the internal combustion engine work better and making steady progress with hybrids and plug-ins. What car you buy can make an indirect statement that you are aware of the environment,” Kaas said."

    Young still excited by autos that reflect Green concerns, connectivity (Detroit News)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    " What car you buy can make an indirect statement that you are aware of the environment"

    My pre-emissions fintail and V8 daily driver show how I love the greenies :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    NYT wrote a damning review, but Musk punched back nicely:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/14/tesla-takes-new-york-times-to-task-for-damnin- g-model-s-re/

    Looks like the NYT write was lying through his teeth! That's waaaay too much contradictory data to be made up.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    A journalist creating news? Nah, this can't be true!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think it's funny he got caught. Especially since he lied so much.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2013
    And now the NYT is back-tracking...if only a little:

    http://green.autoblog.com/2013/02/19/new-york-times-admits-tesla-model-s-writer-- - - didnt-use-go/

    I predict these black boxes will change the way reviews are written in the future. Better take good notes!

    NYTimes has never exactly been the best at auto reporting. Many of the people who work there don't even drive at all!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    And "broderize" has now entered the lexicon.

    From what I read, Broder isn't an auto writer either, but covers the oil industry among other stuff.

    But I'm not going to call it a hack job until after market closes in another minute and Tesla releases sales results for Q4. They targeted 2,500 to 3k. Or was it 3k sold for the year? Lost that link already.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's the problem whenever you approach any writing assignment with an agenda. The NYT would fire him if they had any guts at all.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    Agreed, and the "investigation" they did was a bit lame as well.

    Looks like Tesla didn't quite meet expectations, only selling 2400.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The NYT would fire him if they had any guts at all.

    The entire NYT has a liberal agenda. Not much there you can take face value. Reader beware with ALL MEDIA. :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Are they still made elsewhere with OUR TAX dollars?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The entire NYT has a liberal agenda.

    That's just it - the Greens are saying that Broder is an oil company shill trying to slam EVs to protect the gasoline sellers.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The liberal agenda is hardly anti Oil. Look how many billions Soros has made from oil. Broder should be against Tesla for the $millions they have extorted from tax payers with no real chance of success. They are a green plaything for the rich and famous. Will never be mainstream. Look how poorly the cheap EVs are doing with huge tax incentives.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2013
    Look how poorly the cheap EVs are doing with huge tax incentives

    With folks like Broder telling bogus stories, that's not going to change. Most of the public won't catch the part where the NYT apologized.

    Plus Fox News has had it out for the Volt since day one, to them it's the bail out poster child.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Plus Fox News has had it out for the Volt since day one, to them it's the bail out poster child.

    That is the truth. The Volt has cost US billions and with little chance of it EVER becoming mainstream at a competitive price. We cannot continue to subsidize every crazy scheme that comes along and stay strong. Good ideas have to make it on merit not government subsidies.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hybrids and diesels got incentives early on, and both of those are now mainstream. The incentives worked.

    It will take longer for EVs, but I wouldn't dismiss them quite yet.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The incentives on the hybrids and diesels were no where close to the $7500 on the Volt, Leaf etc.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    261-MPG Volkswagen XL1 To Debut at 2013 Geneva Auto Show

    image

    Yes, it's slated for production.

    No, we won't get it.

    1,953 pounds, 32 mile range in all electric mode. Two cylinder TDI engine.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True, but you could get $750 on a TDI that was around $20k, more on some hybrids.

    They sell now even after the incentives are gone.

    Leaf prices dropped, they'll keep going in that direction. Right now a Leaf is cheaper than an Altima.

    I can imagine in 5-10 years an EV being price competitive (in certain classes) without incentives.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Elon Musk is either a genius visionary or a complete fool. And we just paid him $110,000 to find out which.

    But this time it's different. There are no time limits. And no scary big brother black boxes watching over us. It's our car. We paid for it. We picked it up at the Fremont factory with 50 Tesla-test-track miles on the odometer. And our plan is simple. We're going to drive the hell out of it for a year. We're going to drive it as much as possible. Where we want. When we want. And Mr. Musk can only sit back and read about it like everybody else."

    2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Road Test
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good idea by Edmunds, kudos.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    People are going to want daily updates on that!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    Maybe we should suggest that the home office go out and buy a flat bed for a long term tester too. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Flex fuel in so many ways - powered by solar, coal, nukes, and gas or diesel tow trucks!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I suspect any auto club/towing package will automatically blacklist them :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2013
    EVs need to work like my cordless drill - quick change battery packs. Some already exist in other markets.

    Imagine pulling up and exchanging the battery instantly instead of waiting to charge. Might even be quicker than pouring 20 gallons of gas.

    A B segment car could have one battery pack, a bigger van or truck could have 2 of the same battery packs, all interchangeable.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Stop making sense :shades:

    That's a key problem to these cars now - want to take a 400 mile trip without a huge detour in the middle? Tough luck.
  • wilcoxwilcox Member Posts: 582
    edited February 2013
    Agree.

    Yet...after taking into account the up coming inflation for 10 years, we'll see higher prices on EV's even though cost of production should decrease for a number of reasons.

    We just completed a 2000+ mi. road trip and our '10 Fusion Hybrid only averaged a big 38.3 MPG . (Texas speed limits are like 75 MPH :cry:) . It does much better in city driving.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    He's right, though.

    Nobody reads the corrections/apology on the bottom of page 6, in small print.

    They take the headline and run with it. Most readers only scan the paper and don't even read the whole story. They'll tell their friends "See? Those EVs still can't go very far".
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I cannot believe anyone with that much money to spend on a car would base their buying on one review from a rag like the NYT. As far as the stock price I watched Apple lose over $250 billion in value over various reports. Some legitimate some not. That is part of doing business. Sounds like a whiny exec.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Here's video.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/26/musk-says-new-york-times-debacle-may-have-cos- t-tesla-100/

    NYT has a pretty big circulation. I also would not overestimate the intelligence of the car buying public. ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The point is saying the stock price went down $100 million is meaningless. The bottom line is how many cars they sell and the EPS of the stock. The stock price can go up and down on a whim. Not really relevant to sales. Sounds to me like they are trying to churn up some cash. They have teetered on the brink of BK for a decade. We have given them way more than a $100 million tax payer dollars and they are still not building them with American labor.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True but it does affect the interest rates he'll get from private borrowers after he pays off the government loans early (at least he says that's his plan).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Do you really think those loans will ever be paid off? I would expect BK within a year and the Chinese buying the parts for pennies on our tax dollars. Just the same as the battery maker for Tesla, A123. We give them a truck load of money and the execs live like Kings and we get little or nothing in return.

    Bankrupt Tesla CEO Buys $17 Million Mansion After Receiving $465 Million Taxpayer-Funded Bailout
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Look at your source...no wonder.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    It's a satire site, kind of odd.

    Although I do think Musk, being a zillionaire, should have been made to use more of his own fortune for his pet project. But that's how we roll here - socialize losses, privatize winnings.
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