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Good luck to you if you choose that.
BTW my car is seacrest green with the ivory interior, but it also has black carpeting, which unfortunately shows salt all too easily during and after the winter. There's something to be said for having a battleship gray interior... it almost looks the same, whether it's clean or dingy! :P
My current Miata has black carpets and they show every speck of dust.
Can't win.
I think the best colors are medium shades. Beige works but it's too bland for me.
Forester AT, 2.5i: Rode as a passenger. Very nice car, quite peppy off the line - (actually the throttle was a bit touchy & wife had to give less intitial gas then on our 03 Forest MT or our A4 CVT), but less energetic once up to speed. Relatively smooth, quite, found driver's seat very comfy (comparing to the outstanding driver's seat in A4). As a 5'8" passenger I feel a little too enclosed due to frequently mentioned low passenger seat - not bad, just a feels a bit like in a hole. Overall very nice car.
Outback 2.5i, CVT: I rode & drove this one. Noticably different feel - more spacious & comfortable - in a word, definitely a more deluxe feel - better than our A4 (which has pretty compact interior). Wife liked driver's seat better than A4's - big surprise - leather a bit softer/more cush for tush. Not as agile feeling as previous Forester or OB. Noticably slower off line than Forester, seemed a bit quicker in manual mode. Better once up to speed. Actually A4 w CVT is similar feeling. Yes steering is a bit numb, but I probably would not have noticed if I have not been reading all articles.
Both are really nice cars & represent an upgrade from our 03 Forester & 04 A4 (surprised to hear myself saying that). The only places our old A4 is superior is passing power & mpg (will miss getting 34-36 mpg highway ). Both new Subies lean more toward comfort & are less of a "driver's car" than our current wheels. We would be happy with either. At this stage of our lives (60) we both prefer OB. Our current cars are now on Craig's list.
Currently Ltd OB are very scarce in NW WA. We anticipate ordering a OB Ltd w sunroof, auto dim / Home Link mirror, puddle lights, & rear bumper protector in next 1-2 months using the VIP plan. Will get aftermarket trailer hitch. Will probably replace Conti tire (poor Tirerack reveiws) w General Altimax RT or HT. Would be interested in upgrading sway bars for less body roll if & when then come out (the STi rear sway bar on 03 Forester was nice addition). Anyone want a good used Forester or A4?
Coming from an A4, you'll probably feel more at home in the nicer interior.
I keep tellin' people the 4EAT/2.5 combo in the Forester is responsive. Thanks for agreeing because I was beginning to think I was crazy, the only one who saw that.
Good luck selling and shopping.
The new Outback is a stellar vehicle and should further cement Subaru's dominance of their market segment. There is a good reason their sales have suffered less during the present economic downturn than the sales of any other vehicle maker.
My 1997 Outback is still going strong and is a pleasure to drive every time I set foot in it! I can tell you on no uncertain terms that when it is replaced it will be with another Outback!
The Forester has 55 series H rated tires while the OB has 60 series T rated tires.. Perhaps a signficant amount of the steering difference is attributal to the difference in tires, What do you think?
I am not sure what you mean by "afterthought" styling. The wagon/Outback was always purpose-built as a wagon. If anything, the sedan was the obvious afterthought. Now, it is quite the reverse. You take the purpose-built sedan, add a hobbled C-pillar extension and some bulky cladding, and tada! - an Outback! Yes, it is just like every other wagon/CUV in the world, but hey, that is what people want....
I am not saying it is not a good car, but it sure lost me as a potential customer. After three Outbacks, I just cannot see myself owning one of these new ones. Subaru is obviously looking for a new customer base and they are likely to find it.
My only negative now is the lack of panoramic roof, getting rid of that is a huge disappointment for me and my wife. I seriously hope they bring it back someday.
Only as a customer of this new Outback.
Only as a customer of this new Outback
I agree; the new Forester would replace my 2005 3.0R if it were wrecked or stolemn..
When and if they ever start producing enough so that dealers have a standing inventory I may buy one. But I won't buy one as long as sales people claim that there is this shortage. I like to have a choice and substantial discount. I'm patient too.
Need your advice, It is Worth Buying Extended Warranty Basic. It costs about $1500
I added up the prices that they have for servicing and it came out to $1485. But there is some services which I wouldn't get done. (Had a prior car which was a Honda and lasted me for about 279K). Plus you also get a $500 as a gift card at the end of the service warranty.
Please advise.
I think that's a good point, and something that may have been influenced by parent company Toyota.
Some people will think that's fine, given the Outback is a people and cargo hauler, while the Legacy GT or even a WRX are meant to fullfill the sporting missions.
surrfurtom: the cost cutting police will note they not only removed weatherband radio, but also cut the moonroof in half and removed turn signals from the mirrors, plus the fact that those mirrors no longer fold.
I'd pass.
Who wants to be "connected" to increasingly falling apart, poor quality roads unless you are into having your bones jarred all the way up to your jaws??!
I concur! I'm halfway through my two-year lease on a 2009 Legacy 2.5i SE. I love the styling, and the 17" alloy wheels with 50-series Yokohama Advan tires really add to the look. However, they do a rather poor job of dealing with the winter-ravaged roads here on the east side of Milwaukee and Shorewood, WI. As nice as this car is to drive and look at, I would not want to put up with the car's inability to absorb frost heaves and crevices over the long term.
I'll have to drive a 2010/2011 around my neighborhood next August before I decide whether I'll get another Legacy. At least the 2.5i and 2.5i Premium models now have 16-inch wheels with 60-series tires, so maybe they won't be quite as harsh on these roads.
Granted, other parts of the country don't have roads like ours, so some readers might not understand where I am coming from... but those of you that live in the snowbelt might have some idea of what I'm referring to.
Has anyone driven through Salt Lake City lately? The roads are terrible! Likewise Las Vegas and environs. Oregon is falling apart from one side to the other.
About the only state with decent roads is Texas and not all of us live there.
Buy the 2010 Outback. You'll be happy you did!
I'm quite astonished by the size as well... they're nearly as large as the Tribeca, although I don't really see that as a negative.
Hopefully the long-travel suspension provides a more absorbent ride, compared to that of the Legacy.
For what it is worth, a company can build a suspension to soak up our punishing roads without destroying driver feedback. The best feedback comes through the steering wheel. It is sad that Subaru wants to appeal to the masses because the masses are not drivers. Apparently, though, it is working.
Did you have your mechanic check the head gaskets closely to make sure there are no minor leaks developing? For the most part, those problems were behind Subaru by the 2003 model year, but there have been some reports of failure even in new models.
You should put your 03 for sale now.
We sold our 02 last year, right at the end of our 7/100 Gold warranty. It was great, selling it with even a tiny bit of warranty left puts the buyer at ease. Ours sold quickly and easily.
Then get a 2010 Forester.
Just kidding. Roads are terrible - buy a 2010 Outback!
Just kdding again! Buy what you love! :shades:
FWIW, the Subaru brand, in general, has a very high owner retention rate. Most Subaru owners, remain Subaru owners when it comes time to look for a new ride. So they must be doing something right.
Bob
The Legacy felt much more comfortable than my current Forester and was definitely more quiet. I am just concerned that after a harsh winter on hard roads it too will ride hard like my current Forester.
Thank You
Xemex
Perhaps they're just defective.
If you compare Vermont to Florida, Subaru has 14 times the market share in the snowy state vs. the sunny state. People love them for snow. I had a 98 and we own an 09 now - they are great.
I think the shocks are simply bad.
From price quoted to me, the formula is add $200 to $300 on the 50% of the suggested price. Most Subie dealers will sell you at that range and refuse any offers outside this range.
I test drove both engine models over the weekend. Having primarily driven luxury SUV's in recent years, my gas pedal foot and ears could not tolerate the CVT... as much as I wanted it to work for me! Although it more power than previous models, the engine growl was awful... I don't remember that in the older models? Thus, my hopes of some gas saving are foiled as the only model I could handle with my much highway driving is the 3.6R. My first impressions driving the car was that it was spacious but not nearly as "fun" to drive as my 2005 3.0R VDC. It felt very utilitarian, like the Tribeca I had experienced before making the decision to move away from Subaru for my last SUV purchase.
I still have a place in my heart for a new Subie, but other than the relative "value" equation compared to luxury sport wagons, I am having trouble making the decision. Back in 2004, I found the 2005 3.0R VDC to outperform luxury wagons like the A4, 3-series, and Volvo. Now, they are not even in the same class of performance... perhaps due to the larger, higher body of the Subaru and significant refinements in the luxury classes. So back in 2005, it was an easy decision... save $10-15K and buy the Subaru. Now the cost difference between the Subaru and other luxury sportwagons has closed < $10K. The luxury wagens, with their efficient turbos also have phenomenal gas mileage, compared to the Subaru .
Thus here are my questions for you Subaru enthusiests out there...
1. Am I crazy, or does the new 3.6R not drive as well as the older 3.0R?
2. Any ideas on real-world gas mileage for the new 3.6R? My 2005 3.0R VDC got about the same mileage as my current 2007 Acura MDX... 19 in town and mid-20's on the highway... any improvement with the 2010 3.6R?
3. Resale values... one of the reasons that I went back to the Acura MDX was a less than stellar resale value of my 2005 3.0R VDC, compared to the basic OB models. With an even greater price range in the 2010 Outback line... this situation may now be even worse not better?
4. With the 4-cyl not an option for me... any word on a a diesel or turbo 4 for the OB linup?
5. Tell me why I should buy an outback and not a Audi A4 Avant or Volvo V50 T5, if I am going to downsize from my SUV, with the interest of bringing back driving enthusiasm and better gas mileage?
Thanks!
So here's my question... is it true that you cannot adjust the Subaru Navigation System while driving? This was told to me by my Subaru dealer as he explained why they order zero vehicles with factory Navigation... this can't really be true? Perhaps in older models, but I have to believe that Subaru has changed this for 2010? Does anyone know? If this is still the case, then a new Subie is a no-go for me.
Thanks!
I have a Cadillac with built in nav and it requires the car to be stopped before you can do a search for POIs or request a route change or many of the other functions. It is a CYA thing that Lexus and other manufacturers do also to keep the interaction to a minimum when the car is moving. Yes it is a PITA especially when you have a co-pilot.
For that reason I prefer my Magellan stand alone and my Verizon cell phone navigation over my built in car navigation. My Verizon cell phone costs $10 a month and it provides lots of dynamic info on gas prices, traffic, movies, etc and has automatic updates. It is a good deal. The only disadvantage that I can see is that it requires a cell phone signal and that can be an occasional problem and also the map function is less detailed. The Magellan works well but you need to buy updates that could cost close to $10 a month if amortized plus cost of unit.
The factory units usually cost $2k but include a helpful back up camera. Good luck on your decision.
I still prefer to find a factory navigation system with voice command capability... I think it is just a matter of time before many of the portable devices and/or interaction with them are banned.
I will be sure to test any navigation system for such limitations you describe... perhaps I should keep the Acura!
Thanks for your insights...
The positives for the 3.6R are much better tip-in throttle response and an isolated very comfortable ride over pot-holed roads.
The negative is a ponderousness with practically no road feel through the steering...and a significantly larger turning circle.
I drove the 2010 Forester at the same dealer and found it to be very capable and with the same ride as my 2005 3.0R and with the same interior passenger room as the Outback 3.6R. I noted the smaller cargo area.
No, I drove the normally aspirated model and found its around-town performance not too different from my 2005 3.0R. There was adequate off-the-line accelleration. The turbo would have been faster of course,
The ride also was much the same as the 3.0R with good center feel. The interior appearance was as good as my 3.0R, but some materials were not as good quality..mouse fur headliner, minimal thickness carpet. The leather seating seemed similar The huge increase in interior room certainly makes back seat passengers more comfortable. Lack of protective side cladding makes parking dents more probable.
If I needed to replace the 3.0R right now the Forester with leather would be my choice. I'm not sure I would want the turbo. Having driven the OB 2.5 l w/CVT, I can't imagine tolerating the noise.
Portable Nav systems now take voice commands. They're high end, but still cost a quarter to a third of what built-in systems cost. Map updates cost $65 from Garmin vs. $230 from Subaru. And new 5" screens have arrived, too.
I'm sure someone (peaty?) will find an override for the lock-out while in motion.
I need to trade my (awesome) ’05 TSX w/NAV for practicality now that I have a 5 month old infant. Honda just came out with the Cross Tour today but it is just another Venza (at first looked like the perfect vehicle-sedan like drive but taller, 4 door hatch, etc but reviews show it is the worst of all worlds (heavy, somewhat cheap interior, and those 20” tires? Not comfortable and $$)
My questions are the following:
1) I live in Mass. The dealer inventories show tons of 2.5 basic and Premiums but just a trickle of 3.6R ALL Limited! Why is it impossible to find 3.6 Premiums?
2) In any case there are next to none 3.6R Limited with NAV. I read here that dealers don’t want them because it does not interact while driving? That is a problem.
3) I’m thinking of getting the V6 Premium and a portable NAV. The Limited (+$2k) does nothing for me unless it comes with the NAV.
4) Why does Subaru force us to get Limited and sunroof before getting NAV? It’s like they know most Subbies are frugal so let’s hose the ones with some $ for NAV!
Thanks-
The opposite could be true - those sell the quickest.
The people willing to pay more for the first on the block are also the most likely to want them loaded up.
The integrated NAVs are sweet. Back in 2005 portable ones were going for just under $1k, versus $2k for factory installed (Acura TSX). The interface, size and looks made me bite the bullet and I have no regrets. Walking around Boston I see many broken windows to steal portable ones (and ipods.) Nowadays it’s very hard to justify $2k for factory installed when you can get a very good one at Best Buy for $350 or so.
It appears the majority of Subaru drivers go for base motors and package as I said before, very frugal, which is fine! I like a little pizzazz with my Honda reliability, thus the Acura brand.
The Outback interior is very nice (actually the nicest of all Subarus). I agree with you that depreciation for the high end Limited with NAV will be rather bad, but I plan to keep it for 5-7 years. The RDX is a non-starter (and owner satisfaction is low). As for the MDX – too big unless you have teenagers going to soccer practice.
If you are truly concerned about depreciation stay away from the Volvo. Even with $3-6k off MSRP it is still more expensive than Outback and it depreciates faster (especially with the brand for sale.) Most dealers will have only one V50 on the lot. It does not move. The NAV system is the worst in the industry. Uses a remote control and is not integrated with the rest of the electronics! The A4 Avant is very nice but the trunk is not functional and long term driving comments are not great (very harsh sport driving- although you may like that.) Plus with Audi you get to visit the dealership every few months to fix something.
that is true but I check the inventory a couple of times everyday for the last 3-4 weeks. It's growing (post C4C) and only once did i see the $35k "ghost." plus many dealers love to have "pending sale" on their inventory.
Costco has the Nuvi 260w for $180 IIRC, and the 265wt with traffic info included is $220. Both are 4.3" screens, text-to-speech, pretty well equipped. I have one of each, and they're great, much better than the Nuvi 200W (about $149 now).
$430 buys you the new 5" models that just came out, with Bluetooth and all the frills, including traffic.