Go to the Hyundai website and check the specs on the 2011 Sonata, It has approx. 3 inches less back set leg room than the current model. Just like Nissan did with the Altima when it redesigned in 2007, greatly reducing back set room, especially leg room. It seems like all the re-designs (the new Ford Taurus being another example) are making backsets that are not functional for adults. I would really like to find a reliable true family car with good mileage that had a back set for adults, rather than ones that will not fit any male members of my family except for my 1 year old grandson.
Dconner, What your missing is the fact that the rear leg-room spec is in fact smaller than the current generation however the front legroom spec is greater by a similar amount. Nothing more than front seat adjustability then correct?
Interesting. I think craig is probably right--if you just scoot up your front seat a little, you'll probably get about as much legroom in back as the current Sonata--in other words quite good.
I think the 2011 Sonata looks great. I hope they've sharped up the handing to match up with the sleek styling. The handling on the current generation is generally considered below Accord, Altima, Mazda 6, etc. Still a good ride, but generally on the comfy squishy side rather than sporty. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but I'm one of the ones who prefers a slightly sporty ride. Not too harsh, mind you, just a balance of sport and comfort.
For the earlier person looking for a good back seat in a family sedan, I recommend the Honda Accord. I believe it has perhaps the biggest back seat in its segment. If you skip the sunroof, and get an LX or LXP model, the headroom is quite generous. I have an Accord EXL, which has the sunroof, but even with that headroom in back is quite good--adult sized. And in any case, legroom is quite good on the Accord.
The new Sonata looks to be just about as big as the Accord in the cabin--and the new Sonata has a significantly bigger trunk than the Accord. The Accord's trunk is c. 14 cu ft, while the 2011 Sonata is 16.
I don't know if your in the market for a new car now but the 2009/2010 Sonata would be a good choice "IMO". It is rated as a large car w/ room for 5 adults "I have no trouble doing that in ours". The 09 & 10 are exactly the same, and I would say pretty soon they will try to push them out the door to make room f/ 2011. My idea is, we already know what the track record is on the 09/2010, but it remains to be seen about the 2011. The car I have is the 2009SE w/ V6 "not knocking the I4" another fine Hyundai product" my preference was the V6. and I think a fine good looking car and one of the best ride and handling cars I've ever had, besides having good HP if needed and probably close to the best MPG in the V6 midsize class. It's all "IMO" thing.
I forgot to say I think the 2011 may be one of the prettiest cars I've seen in many years "a real head turner IMO". It may send most of the midsize car makers back to the drawing board! I will be one of the first to go see it in person, I hate to think of getting rid of my 2009 !!!! HA HA
I'll have to agree with you on that, Azera is a very nice car I glanced over it, but the Sonata SE has exactly what I wanted. It seems like Hyundai themselfs squeezed it out, not much room left between the Sonata and the Genesis. I'm not to crazy about the 2011 Sonata getting smaller, not much smaller but it is.
I'm not sure, but I think maybe the 2011 Sonata loses about an inch of rear headroom compared to the current model. Otherwise I think it's pretty close to the same...
2009 Accord sedan (in the rear) shoulder 56.4"/ head 38.5"/ hip 54.3/ leg 37.2 2009 Sonata " " shoulder 56.9"/ head 38.2"/ hip 55.5/ leg 43.7 2011 Sonata " " shoulder 56.7"/ head 37.8"/ hip 54.9/ leg 34.6
Another observation; EPA class size rating
Accord total interior volume 115 cu ft EPA large Camry " " " 116.4 cu ft EPA midsize Altima " " " 116 cu ft EPA midsize Mazda6 " " " 118.9 cu ft EPA midsize Malibu " " " 112.8 cu ft EPA midsize Fusion " " " 116.2 cu ft EPA midsize Sonata " " " 121.8 cu ft EPA large 2011 Sonata " " 120.2 cu ft EPA ????? Avalon " " " 120.9 cu ft EPA large Aura " " " 113 cu ft EPA midsize Acura TL " " " 111.3 cu ft EPA midsize Infiniti G37 " " 99.0 cu ft EPA compact Audi A4 " " 107.0 cu ft EPA compact Lexus ES350 " " 110.1 cu ft EPA compact Is there anything strange about those ratings? Accord has a smaller I.V. than the Camry, Altima, Mazda6, & Fusion, how is it rated large? Only goes to show EPA has faults about ratings.
This has nothing to do with knocking any above mentioned car, I would love to have them all, just a hobby.
Not sure where you are getting this info, but the Accord's total interior volume is 120 cubic feet, w/o moonroof (LX/LX-P), hence it's just over the "large car" line... as is the 2011 Sonata at 120.2.
Also, your figures for the 2009 vs. 2011 Sonata look suspect--I doubt there's a 9 inch difference in legroom. Are you sure you aren't comparing the front leg room in the 2009 with the rear leg room of the 2011?
Your right on the Accord total interior volume 120 cu ft, sorry for the confusion, I may have listed I.V. for the coupe? Also the rear leg room on the 2009 Sonata 37.4 which is about 3" more than 2011 Sonata. Some sites have conflicting reports.
I still think EPA ratings are not perfect, and I don't claim to be either.
My eye sight is not getting any better with age, if I stand to be corrected please do so, the info we share may be useful to someone besides being interesting.
There are a some things in the current Sonata that are a bit better than the current Accord. For instance, the Sonata's trunk is not only 2 cubic feet larger, but has the special kind of hinges that don't intrude into the trunk space. The Accord had hinges like these in the 90s, iirc, for the 94-97 generation, but starting with the 98 Accord they took them out again, to save money.
Also, even the base GLS Sonata has heated rearview mirrors. Those are available on the Accord starting at the EX level, I think. Heated mirrors really are a useful feature when its cold and damp.
One place where the Accord seems a bit ahead is on handling. But 8babies1dog has the special SE handling pkg, which does seem to make a difference. Don't know that compares with the Accord.
It'll be interesting to see if the 2011 Sonata goes for sharper handling a la Accord, Altima, Mazda 6, etc.
Thanks for mentioning about the SE, it has a lot of thinks different on the under side, including much bigger roll bars added to the new suspension system and larger diameter breaks. As for as handling I'm not very familiar w/ the Accord or the Sonata GLS or the Limited. I know it's an opinion thing,but I find it handles better than anything I test drove and probably smoothest and quitest, far better than most of the cars I've owned. It's not a sports car, but Hyundai didn't advertise it as such anyway, just a little (sportier) maybe IMO.
you are right the new for 2011 version will get a very good test here in the US soon. Will it actually be the same as the overseas version "good question" it will be completely made in Alabama.
I'm going on a tour of that plant in January, should be interesting.
8babies1dog: Please give us a report on your factory tour. Sounds fascinating. I didn't know companies did that kind of thing anymore. Although I guess you can go to the BMW factory in Germany and pick up your BMW...
Can't believe no one has commented on the front end of this car. Yuck!!!! Looks like they took the worst parts of the Camry and TL front ends and morphed them into a bird's beak.
I tend to agree with you. The front end and the big crease down the side look odd to me, perhaps my opinion will change when I see one up close and personal.
I made a correction on the rear leg room on Dec. 14th @ (6.02 am).
I will be more than happy to report on the Sonata plant tour!
This is an opinion only on the 2011 Sonata, I think it looks real nice looking at a rear towards the front view. I don't think the side view looks that good to me, from the windshield forward looks way to long in relation to the rear portion "trunk area" IMO. Also it seems to sit low to the road in the picture, all this may change w/ a up close and personal view! I never have been to crazy about the rear sticking up so much higher than the front (wedge look). again an opinion thing.
Has anyone noticed on the new spec. sheet that the SE is to have a little extra horsepower rating than the GLS & Limited, and even more over the (PZEV) version, kind of strange, it does say (est) so I guess it could mean more or less.
Very good point, 200hp engine should have a real dual exhaust system, sometimes the system is split near the tail pipes to give the dual exhaust affect, will this be done? That may not increase the cmm volume. But anyway I think it comes down to an estimate thing.
Hyundai's Montgomey Ala plant started production on the 2011 Sonata this week and are up to about 40% right now. The 2010's are finished. Hyundai figures on having the 2011 Sonata on showroom floors by the end of January or first part of Febuary. We will order around Febuary 1st as we want a few specialty items [ paint,alloy wheels,etc. ].A friend who drove one at Fountain Valley,Ca said you can't hear any road noise until after you reach 70mph and that the ride is comfortable and the steering is tight.[ even on the GLS which is what we are getting as my wife doesn't like leather].We have spent almost a year checking the Ford Taurus, Buick LaCrosse, Accord,Nissan, and Camry. The 2011 Sonata has them all beat in looks, driving, warranty, and price. We were getting the 2010 Sonata until we saw the 2011. We live in northern Ca.
I think the 2011 looks great a little different but very nice, certainly not "generic". It will still be about the same size as the 2009/2010, will be equipped a little different. Hopefully it will be equally as dependable and have the same MPG as it,s previous family. Good luck with it if thats what you do get. My wife and I really love our 2009 SE.
I mentioned before about going on a tour of the Alabama plant next month, if the 2011 hasn't hit the street by that time I can give a inside report.
I heard it is very interesting, looking forward to it. Nice of Hyundai USA to invite us to go, really seems as though they appreciate their customers. Very unique that the only "car" Hyundai builds in the US (as of now) finds itself toward the top of the class in the ratings, hopefully the 2011 will continue that trend. If it is anything like the 2009/2010 it will be another contender.
The US plant don't always follow what Korea does!! We may be in for a surprise!!!!
i think it's going to have both just in case one fails you'll have the other as back-up.this is a very unique feature to have on the 2011 sonata and not sure if any other car make has this feature.
You're kidding, right? I've never heard of a car having both a timing belt and chain. The Theta I had a timing chain, and the Theta II does also, albeit an improved one. Here is what Hyundai has to say about it:
And the CVVT system is run by a new steel chain with an innovative roller and a retuned chain tensioner for the improved fuel efficiency and robust durability.
My recent thoughts on the new Sonata has me wandering. I read that Hyundai, (Korea) spent upwards of $140,000,000.00 ( 140 million $$$$) to have an I-4 engine that will produce a little more HP than the current 2009/2010 Sonata I-4. I also have read comments in the forum from many of the owners of the I-4 that stated that they were very satisfied with the performance "enough HP" and the MPG rating. With that said, when the 2011 Sonata hits the streets here and it has the new version I-4 and if by chance the "upgrade" don't improve the perfo- mance or even worse will not increase MPG!!! "What a Bomb". There will possible be a price increase to cover the added expense. The DI induction engine is not a tried and true thing for Hyundai (to my knowledge). 1 thing is already known the 2011 is a little smaller than it's predecessor, and that loss of cu ft is in the passanger volume, how will that fit?
In conclusion several things come to mind, if (if is a big word) but if it fails to live up to what is advertised, how pretty will the new design look then?
IMO honestly, I don't like any of the above ( to much change to quick) as I have stated before I am not a 4 cylinder guy, never was and I won't ever be. The HP and MPG can jump up even higher, not my thing. Have had many not so good experiences with I-4's. I hope my new SE- V6 will last till all the 4 bangers crap out! or at least till the warranty craps out.
Thanks for your time.
P.S. I am now a big HYUNDAI fan. Excellent car, hope it continues to be.
Yes, and in addition to all that, we are overdue for a supernova in this part of the galaxy. :sick:
Sorry, but I have never seen so much angst about things that are highly unlikely to happen, in one post.
Doesn't it make sense that a car that is lighter than another car but has 23-25 more horses, more torque, and one more cog in the tranny will have better performance?
As for not increasing the MPG... the EPA has determined the 2011 Sonata is more fuel efficient in its tests than the 2010 Sonata. As for real-world driving... YMMV, as always. But I've never achieved less than EPA numbers in any Hyundai I've driven (and for which I've calculated fuel economy)... that includes at least a couple of dozen Sonatas over the years. Why should that all change for the 2011 Sonata?
As for loss of passenger volume... it's 1.6 cubic feet less for 2011. Which makes the 2011 Sonata roomier for passengers than all major competitors except the low-end Accords (those w/o a moonroof). The Sonata's trunk is actually a bit larger for 2011--16.4 vs. 16.3 cubic feet.
As for a price increase... I expect there will be a small one, if anything because of more/better standard equipment (6 speed transmissions, Bluetooth, the more powerful and economical DI engine etc.). But it's likely the 2011 Sonata will still cost less than most competitors with comparable equipment.
I am glad you really like your SE V6. It will probably last a long time. I am hoping my 2007 GLS I4 lasts a long time also, 5-6 more years at least. By that time, the Gen 6 Sonata will probably be out--with its fuel cell powerplant.
I really hope the 2011 works out to be as good or maybe even better than expected. None of what I had in the post was put to be in the negative sense, "supernova" or whatever you call it. You said yourself I quote "highly unlikely to happen", that leaves the possibility it can happen. I don't want to believe it will, but just think about how long it took to refine the engines their already using to get them where they are. IMO 2 of the best midsize car engines to be produced in many, many years. Dependable (good track record) very good MPG/HP ratio I-4 & V6. It has yet to prove itself in the publics hands, EPA is a far cry from science. Hyundai has been batting a thousand lately on Quality so no reason it should change.
I want to clarify the part about the I-4 crapping out, I don't want anything to happen to it, it is a masterpiece of engineering. What I was trying to say is I would like the V6 and the V8's to remain available to those of us that want them. I may be the only die hard extra HP person left standing but I really don't think so.
Performance is not only about HP weight and speed, IMO. And about the size of the 2011 it is still a EPA rated large car but even (.1) cu ft is smaller any way you add it up, may not notice it, but smaller.
Do you know what the first application of both the 2.4L Theta and 3.3L Lambda was? The 2006 Sonata. So Hyundai had zero track record with those two all-new engines when it put them into its bread-and-butter car five years ago. And things worked out pretty well for those engines, didn't it? And the Theta II with DI is not an all-new engine, but a revision to the Theta.
Since the probability of "something happening" is greater than zero, I said "highly unlikely to happen" instead of "won't happen." But keep in mind the probability that our sun won't come up tomorrow morning--at least not in its familiar form--is also not zero.
I agree that performance is more than hp, weight, and speed. Handling is part of it--maybe the 2011 Sonata's available 18" wheels will help there. Maybe the suspension tuning of the 2011 Sonata will be oriented more towards crisp handling (in all trims). Braking is part of it--maybe the 2011 Sonata won't have the rear brake lock-up problem reported by some owners. Also, I think fuel economy is part of performance. There is evidence that the 2011 Sonata will be the class leader in that category.
If a change is not noticeable, it isn't important. If the 1.6 cubic feet was taken out of headroom, I might not notice it (I'm only 5'10"). But someone who is 6'2" might.
I'm blown away! Just did the factory tour in Montgomery Alabama today. If there is any way you can make the trip I highly encourage you to go to the HMMA website and register for the tour.
The place is state of the art, huge, clean and a great experience!!! The tour is well done and extremely educational and informative.
The 2011 Sonata is GORGEOUS!!!!! Breathtaking actually! Until today I had my heart set on a Genesis sedan. No longer! We will be purchasing a 2011 Sonata later this year when the Turbo is available.....Late 2010. I got to sit in a Limited 2011 Sonata fresh off the assembly line and was in seventh heaven! We thought our Veracruz and Azera were sweet.....The new Sonata is a home run!!!
Accord and Camry are obsolete as soon as this Sonata hits the streets at the end of the Month. Hyundai just had the superbowl commercials shot at this factory and will aire five Superbowl spots highlighting the new Sonata and American factory.
Indeed it is. The Hyundai website has these prelim numbers posted:
The weight is fantastic as well. Losing 1.6 cu.ft. of passenger volume (which is likely headroom) while dropping over 100 pounds AND improving fuel economy = a winner.
While the 2011 Sonata appears to be a worthy competitor to the Accord and the Camry, I continue to wonder what, if anything, Hyundai will do to lower its total cost of ownership. Earlier Sonatas beat out competitors in their initial purchase price but this was more then offset by their lower residual values.
How do you figure the lower purchase prices were "more than offset" by lower resale values? Are you figuring that by percentages, or actual dollars out of pocket? From what I've seen over the years (including ownership of 3 Hyundais, one a Sonata), the lower purchase prices more than offset lower resale value, in terms of dollars out of pocket, if the car is kept in good condition. For the Sonata and Hyundais in general. If the car is trashed by the original owner, all bets are off.
I think you will see prices of new Sonatas continue to creep up, as they have over the past several years since the 2006 model debuted. The better the car relative to its competition, the higher the asking price can be. That will pull up resale values.
Your tour sounds even better than I read about, have tour date of Jan. 29th and have been looking forward to it very much, planed it so we could see the new 2011. I thought about not bringing my wife but she loves the one she has, not even a chance she would trade. We try to keep a "GOOD" vehicle at least 8 to 10 years (or longer). IMO the residual value has a whole lot to do with how the car was maintained (overall looks, year, options that work, mileage, previous repairs the list goes on). That will apply to any vehicle. Now Hyundai (for many reasons) lately has been turning a lot of heads and changing the way people and the industry sees them, so I do believe the resale value will be a whole lot better in the near future, IMO all the others will have to do a little catching up. Regardless some people invite change with open arms, some on the other hand have to be convinced. It took me a while to catch on to what Hyundai now has to offer, and boy am I a happy camper that we jumped aboard. We always get well over book price for our vehicles most of the time from friends or family. We go thru extra measures to keep them up because we usually keep them a while and travel a lot. So the resale is not a issue anyway to me. Have never traded a car in except the Cash for clunkers mess that went down and again got a lot more than book value (13 years old with plenty miles, but a gas guzzler)
I have always driven a Honda, Toyota or Nissan, but am really thinking about getting the new 2011 Sonata. The one thing I have noticed recently is that the Sonata is almost similarly priced as a Accord/Camry/Altima. The thing that made the Sonata a great buy was it costs $3-$5K lower than a Accord or Camry and therefore even though the residual value was low, you bought the Sonata at a lower initial price. I think Hyundai could lose customers if people see that the Sonata is priced the same as a Accord/Camry and they will pick the them instead of the Sonata. I believe the 2011 will be a huge success, but if Hyundai prices it same as the competitors, it will be hard to sell. If they can maintain their low price, but improve their quality and features, they will definitely rise to the top.
i must agree with mazda-dude in that if you have a 2011 sonata that is priced at about the same as a honda accord or toyota camry but the resale values are much better as well as the quality with the honda or toyota then what's the advantage of going with the sonata except maybe for the long warranty.according to "resale value.com" the hyundai sonata will basically be worth peanuts as soon as you drive it off the dealers lot.
It's a catch-22. The main reason the resale values of Sonatas are lower than for Camcords is because the up-front cost of the Sonata is much lower. So the best way to increase resale values is to continue to improve the car and raise its price closer to that of its main rivals. But now some people wonder about buying the Sonata at that price, even though it is very competitive in features and quality with the Camcord, because of historical resale values.
Those of you who wish for the Sonata to continue to be sold at the same low prices as in the past--if that happens, you can forget about resale values rising much, any time soon. You want better resale value? Then accept that the up-front price of the Sonata must increase. You want lower up-front prices? Then accept that you won't get as much, in dollars, for your trade. But you paid less up front.
Backy is right - if you want higher resale values, then you have to suffer higher initial price.
For me, I hope the Sonata continues to be priced substantially less than the Camcord. I have an '09 Sonata, and I plan on keeping it until it just flat out dies (hopefully, 10+ years, 200,000+ miles). So, to me, resale value is meaningless.
I keep a car for 6 years typically and my focus is the loss of value over time in $$$$. As far as I'm concerned, a $40,000 car that is worth $25,000 in six years and a $25,000 car that is worth $10,000 in six years (just making up those numbers) are essentially the same price.
You are looking at it in a practical way. But some people look only at resale/residual percentages, which can be misleading as they tend to favor the more expensive car.
You guys are missing one major factor. The Sonata can be had for much lower prices than equivalent Cam-Cord-etc.. My 2006 Sonata LTD was nearly $10,000 less than Camry with leather, heated seats, esc, The other brands nickel and dime you to death for the same stuff Hyundai includes standard. Now that gap has closed to some degree with other brands including trac control and stability control. Also one issue we have here locally is that all of the Camry's have cloth interior. The only camrys with leather around here have the works like GPS, sunroof, etc.. which drive the price way up. And finally at least in my area the other dealers act like they are gods gift. Very little dealing going on. The hyundai dealers made me a great deal on my Sonata and my wife loves her Santa Fe and she got it for a great price. Mine was 18,500 and her 2008 Santa Fe LTD with sunroof was $21,000. Sure the resale value is lower but I'd rather invest that money and over 5 years make an additional 75% from investments. It's all how you look at it. I absolutely love the 2011 Sonata and I'm chomping at the bit to get it!
If you review my recent posts, I think you'll see I am not missing this point about the Sonata's initially lower sales price.
But do you want a shock? Go into your local Hyundai dealer when the first few 2011 Sonatas arrive. I predict you'll see them at MSRP or even with ADM added, and no rebates. If you doubt that, recall that is what happened in early 2005 when the Gen 4 Sonata debuted. That kind of pricing didn't last long, but it's typical when a new design comes out. So if you want a good deal on a 2011, be prepared to wait a bit. Those who are "chomping at the bit" to get one will pay a premium.
this is the case with the new kia forte koupe.i went with my girlfriend who is interested in the new 2010 kia forte koupe to my local kia dealership.msrp for the car she wanted was $20,090.00 and dealer would not budge from the msrp being that the forte koupe is new and hot looking.however,there were no additional adm's adding to the sticker as far as i could tell.i think what the dealer is forgetting here is that once you drive the kia off the dealers lot it will be basically worth peanuts due to kia''s horrible resale values.i would rather pay msrp for a honda or toyota that will hold it's value alot better than any kia car.people will have this problem with the new 2011 sonata.it may look good and drive well but it's still a hyundai and will be worth peanuts as soon as you drive it off the dealers lot.
Agreed. Most people buy a car with the intention of keeping it and not for the purpose of reselling it. Of all the cars that I've had, except for one, they all lasted ten years. After 10 years, i don't expect to be getting a lot of money for it. So, all this talk about resale value is just plain rediculous.
That would be a very safe bet. Especially if Hyundai keeps the price point below the competition, which they are likely to do.
I was looking at a new 2007 Elantra SE when they first came out in 2006. It was well equipped with a sticker around $17,400 I believe. I was interested until I saw $1,000 ADM on the window, making the price $18,400. I about swallowed my gum! :mad:
I agree with backy 100% about the possibility of the MSRP increase on the 2011. When it hits the showroom floor at first it may not come with any kind of rebate, you may try to wheel and deal but if the interest is as high as I think, that may not fly either. But again Hyundai will do what it takes to put the vehicles in their customers garage, that IMO is a plus for Hyundai and us. "Patience may be the cure."
To some people money is no object, so go for it, it will probably be worth it anyway!
This is probably correct, but wouldn't it be nice if the powers to be at Hyundai came out with a very special discount allowance for present Hyundai owners, for the 2011's.? I know I am dreaming. van
Comments
Production begins at Hyundai Motor Manufacturing Alabama in December with retail sales beginning in January
So it could be in some dealerships by Super Bowl time.
Craig
I think the 2011 Sonata looks great. I hope they've sharped up the handing to match up with the sleek styling. The handling on the current generation is generally considered below Accord, Altima, Mazda 6, etc. Still a good ride, but generally on the comfy squishy side rather than sporty. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but I'm one of the ones who prefers a slightly sporty ride. Not too harsh, mind you, just a balance of sport and comfort.
For the earlier person looking for a good back seat in a family sedan, I recommend the Honda Accord. I believe it has perhaps the biggest back seat in its segment. If you skip the sunroof, and get an LX or LXP model, the headroom is quite generous. I have an Accord EXL, which has the sunroof, but even with that headroom in back is quite good--adult sized. And in any case, legroom is quite good on the Accord.
The new Sonata looks to be just about as big as the Accord in the cabin--and the new Sonata has a significantly bigger trunk than the Accord. The Accord's trunk is c. 14 cu ft, while the 2011 Sonata is 16.
Sonata would be a good choice "IMO". It is rated as a large car w/ room
for 5 adults "I have no trouble doing that in ours". The 09 & 10 are exactly
the same, and I would say pretty soon they will try to push them out the
door to make room f/ 2011. My idea is, we already know what the track
record is on the 09/2010, but it remains to be seen about the 2011. The
car I have is the 2009SE w/ V6 "not knocking the I4" another fine Hyundai
product" my preference was the V6. and I think a fine good looking car
and one of the best ride and handling cars I've ever had, besides having
good HP if needed and probably close to the best MPG in the V6 midsize
class. It's all "IMO" thing.
I forgot to say I think the 2011 may be one of the prettiest cars I've seen in
many years "a real head turner IMO". It may send most of the midsize car
makers back to the drawing board! I will be one of the first to go see it in
person, I hate to think of getting rid of my 2009 !!!! HA HA
but the Sonata SE has exactly what I wanted. It seems like Hyundai themselfs
squeezed it out, not much room left between the Sonata and the Genesis. I'm
not to crazy about the 2011 Sonata getting smaller, not much smaller but it
is.
2009 Accord sedan (in the rear) shoulder 56.4"/ head 38.5"/ hip 54.3/ leg 37.2
2009 Sonata " " shoulder 56.9"/ head 38.2"/ hip 55.5/ leg 43.7
2011 Sonata " " shoulder 56.7"/ head 37.8"/ hip 54.9/ leg 34.6
Another observation; EPA class size rating
Accord total interior volume 115 cu ft EPA large
Camry " " " 116.4 cu ft EPA midsize
Altima " " " 116 cu ft EPA midsize
Mazda6 " " " 118.9 cu ft EPA midsize
Malibu " " " 112.8 cu ft EPA midsize
Fusion " " " 116.2 cu ft EPA midsize
Sonata " " " 121.8 cu ft EPA large
2011 Sonata " " 120.2 cu ft EPA ?????
Avalon " " " 120.9 cu ft EPA large
Aura " " " 113 cu ft EPA midsize
Acura TL " " " 111.3 cu ft EPA midsize
Infiniti G37 " " 99.0 cu ft EPA compact
Audi A4 " " 107.0 cu ft EPA compact
Lexus ES350 " " 110.1 cu ft EPA compact
Is there anything strange about those ratings? Accord has a smaller I.V. than
the Camry, Altima, Mazda6, & Fusion, how is it rated large?
Only goes to show EPA has faults about ratings.
This has nothing to do with knocking any above mentioned car, I would love to
have them all, just a hobby.
Also, your figures for the 2009 vs. 2011 Sonata look suspect--I doubt there's a 9 inch difference in legroom. Are you sure you aren't comparing the front leg room in the 2009 with the rear leg room of the 2011?
confusion, I may have listed I.V. for the coupe? Also the rear leg room
on the 2009 Sonata 37.4 which is about 3" more than 2011 Sonata.
Some sites have conflicting reports.
I still think EPA ratings are not perfect, and I don't claim to be either.
My eye sight is not getting any better with age, if I stand to be corrected
please do so, the info we share may be useful to someone besides
being interesting.
Good eye backy!
Also, even the base GLS Sonata has heated rearview mirrors. Those are available on the Accord starting at the EX level, I think. Heated mirrors really are a useful feature when its cold and damp.
One place where the Accord seems a bit ahead is on handling. But 8babies1dog has the special SE handling pkg, which does seem to make a difference. Don't know that compares with the Accord.
It'll be interesting to see if the 2011 Sonata goes for sharper handling a la Accord, Altima, Mazda 6, etc.
the under side, including much bigger roll bars added to the new suspension
system and larger diameter breaks. As for as handling I'm not very
familiar w/ the Accord or the Sonata GLS or the Limited. I know it's
an opinion thing,but I find it handles better than anything I test drove
and probably smoothest and quitest, far better than most of the cars
I've owned. It's not a sports car, but Hyundai didn't advertise it as such
anyway, just a little (sportier) maybe IMO.
you are right the new for 2011 version will get a very good test here in
the US soon. Will it actually be the same as the overseas version
"good question" it will be completely made in Alabama.
I'm going on a tour of that plant in January, should be interesting.
I will be more than happy to report on the Sonata plant tour!
This is an opinion only on the 2011 Sonata, I think it looks real
nice looking at a rear towards the front view. I don't think the side
view looks that good to me, from the windshield forward looks
way to long in relation to the rear portion "trunk area" IMO. Also
it seems to sit low to the road in the picture, all this may change
w/ a up close and personal view! I never have been to crazy about
the rear sticking up so much higher than the front (wedge look).
again an opinion thing.
Has anyone noticed on the new spec. sheet that the SE is to
have a little extra horsepower rating than the GLS & Limited,
and even more over the (PZEV) version, kind of strange, it
does say (est) so I guess it could mean more or less.
system, sometimes the system is split near the tail pipes to give
the dual exhaust affect, will this be done? That may not increase the cmm volume. But anyway I think it comes down to an estimate thing.
It will still be about the same size as the 2009/2010, will be equipped a little
different. Hopefully it will be equally as dependable and have the same MPG
as it,s previous family. Good luck with it if thats what you do get. My wife and
I really love our 2009 SE.
I mentioned before about going on a tour of the Alabama plant next month,
if the 2011 hasn't hit the street by that time I can give a inside report.
Happy holidays to all!!!
Craig
to invite us to go, really seems as though they appreciate their customers.
Very unique that the only "car" Hyundai builds in the US (as of now) finds
itself toward the top of the class in the ratings, hopefully the 2011 will
continue that trend. If it is anything like the 2009/2010 it will be another
contender.
The US plant don't always follow what Korea does!! We may be in for
a surprise!!!!
Hope the new year is good to you'll.
And the CVVT system is run by a new steel chain with an innovative roller and a retuned chain tensioner for the improved fuel efficiency and robust durability.
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/about-hyundai/news/Corporate_newengine-20091120.aspx
Hyundai, (Korea) spent upwards of $140,000,000.00 ( 140 million $$$$)
to have an I-4 engine that will produce a little more HP than the current
2009/2010 Sonata I-4. I also have read comments in the forum from many
of the owners of the I-4 that stated that they were very satisfied with the
performance "enough HP" and the MPG rating.
With that said, when the 2011 Sonata hits the streets here and it has the
new version I-4 and if by chance the "upgrade" don't improve the perfo-
mance or even worse will not increase MPG!!! "What a Bomb". There
will possible be a price increase to cover the added expense. The DI
induction engine is not a tried and true thing for Hyundai (to my knowledge).
1 thing is already known the 2011 is a little smaller than it's predecessor,
and that loss of cu ft is in the passanger volume, how will that fit?
In conclusion several things come to mind, if (if is a big word) but if it fails
to live up to what is advertised, how pretty will the new design look then?
IMO honestly, I don't like any of the above ( to much change to quick) as I
have stated before I am not a 4 cylinder guy, never was and I won't ever be.
The HP and MPG can jump up even higher, not my thing. Have had many
not so good experiences with I-4's. I hope my new SE- V6 will last till all
the 4 bangers crap out! or at least till the warranty craps out.
Thanks for your time.
P.S. I am now a big HYUNDAI fan. Excellent car, hope it continues to be.
Sorry, but I have never seen so much angst about things that are highly unlikely to happen, in one post.
Doesn't it make sense that a car that is lighter than another car but has 23-25 more horses, more torque, and one more cog in the tranny will have better performance?
As for not increasing the MPG... the EPA has determined the 2011 Sonata is more fuel efficient in its tests than the 2010 Sonata. As for real-world driving... YMMV, as always. But I've never achieved less than EPA numbers in any Hyundai I've driven (and for which I've calculated fuel economy)... that includes at least a couple of dozen Sonatas over the years. Why should that all change for the 2011 Sonata?
As for loss of passenger volume... it's 1.6 cubic feet less for 2011. Which makes the 2011 Sonata roomier for passengers than all major competitors except the low-end Accords (those w/o a moonroof). The Sonata's trunk is actually a bit larger for 2011--16.4 vs. 16.3 cubic feet.
As for a price increase... I expect there will be a small one, if anything because of more/better standard equipment (6 speed transmissions, Bluetooth, the more powerful and economical DI engine etc.). But it's likely the 2011 Sonata will still cost less than most competitors with comparable equipment.
I am glad you really like your SE V6. It will probably last a long time. I am hoping my 2007 GLS I4 lasts a long time also, 5-6 more years at least. By that time, the Gen 6 Sonata will probably be out--with its fuel cell powerplant.
expected. None of what I had in the post was put to be in the negative
sense, "supernova" or whatever you call it. You said yourself I quote
"highly unlikely to happen", that leaves the possibility it can happen. I
don't want to believe it will, but just think about how long it took to refine
the engines their already using to get them where they are. IMO 2 of
the best midsize car engines to be produced in many, many years.
Dependable (good track record) very good MPG/HP ratio I-4 & V6.
It has yet to prove itself in the publics hands, EPA is a far cry from
science. Hyundai has been batting a thousand lately on Quality so
no reason it should change.
I want to clarify the part about the I-4 crapping out, I don't want anything
to happen to it, it is a masterpiece of engineering. What I was trying to
say is I would like the V6 and the V8's to remain available to those of
us that want them. I may be the only die hard extra HP person left
standing but I really don't think so.
Performance is not only about HP weight and speed, IMO. And about
the size of the 2011 it is still a EPA rated large car but even (.1) cu ft is
smaller any way you add it up, may not notice it, but smaller.
Since the probability of "something happening" is greater than zero, I said "highly unlikely to happen" instead of "won't happen." But keep in mind the probability that our sun won't come up tomorrow morning--at least not in its familiar form--is also not zero.
I agree that performance is more than hp, weight, and speed. Handling is part of it--maybe the 2011 Sonata's available 18" wheels will help there. Maybe the suspension tuning of the 2011 Sonata will be oriented more towards crisp handling (in all trims). Braking is part of it--maybe the 2011 Sonata won't have the rear brake lock-up problem reported by some owners. Also, I think fuel economy is part of performance. There is evidence that the 2011 Sonata will be the class leader in that category.
If a change is not noticeable, it isn't important. If the 1.6 cubic feet was taken out of headroom, I might not notice it (I'm only 5'10"). But someone who is 6'2" might.
I'm blown away! Just did the factory tour in Montgomery Alabama today. If there is any way you can make the trip I highly encourage you to go to the HMMA website and register for the tour.
The place is state of the art, huge, clean and a great experience!!! The tour is well done and extremely educational and informative.
The 2011 Sonata is GORGEOUS!!!!! Breathtaking actually! Until today I had my heart set on a Genesis sedan. No longer! We will be purchasing a 2011 Sonata later this year when the Turbo is available.....Late 2010. I got to sit in a Limited 2011 Sonata fresh off the assembly line and was in seventh heaven! We thought our Veracruz and Azera were sweet.....The new Sonata is a home run!!!
Accord and Camry are obsolete as soon as this Sonata hits the streets at the end of the Month. Hyundai just had the superbowl commercials shot at this factory and will aire five Superbowl spots highlighting the new Sonata and American factory.
Craig
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Indeed it is. The Hyundai website has these prelim numbers posted:
The weight is fantastic as well. Losing 1.6 cu.ft. of passenger volume (which is likely headroom) while dropping over 100 pounds AND improving fuel economy = a winner.
It is chopping off the content of other
comments.
I think you will see prices of new Sonatas continue to creep up, as they have over the past several years since the 2006 model debuted. The better the car relative to its competition, the higher the asking price can be. That will pull up resale values.
and have been looking forward to it very much, planed it so we could see
the new 2011. I thought about not bringing my wife but she loves the one
she has, not even a chance she would trade. We try to keep a "GOOD"
vehicle at least 8 to 10 years (or longer). IMO the residual value has a
whole lot to do with how the car was maintained (overall looks, year,
options that work, mileage, previous repairs the list goes on). That will
apply to any vehicle. Now Hyundai (for many reasons) lately has been
turning a lot of heads and changing the way people and the industry
sees them, so I do believe the resale value will be a whole lot better in
the near future, IMO all the others will have to do a little catching up.
Regardless some people invite change with open arms, some on the
other hand have to be convinced. It took me a while to catch on to what
Hyundai now has to offer, and boy am I a happy camper that we
jumped aboard. We always get well over book price for our vehicles
most of the time from friends or family. We go thru extra measures to
keep them up because we usually keep them a while and travel a lot.
So the resale is not a issue anyway to me. Have never traded a car in
except the Cash for clunkers mess that went down and again got a lot
more than book value (13 years old with plenty miles, but a gas guzzler)
Those of you who wish for the Sonata to continue to be sold at the same low prices as in the past--if that happens, you can forget about resale values rising much, any time soon. You want better resale value? Then accept that the up-front price of the Sonata must increase. You want lower up-front prices? Then accept that you won't get as much, in dollars, for your trade. But you paid less up front.
For me, I hope the Sonata continues to be priced substantially less than the Camcord. I have an '09 Sonata, and I plan on keeping it until it just flat out dies (hopefully, 10+ years, 200,000+ miles). So, to me, resale value is meaningless.
But do you want a shock? Go into your local Hyundai dealer when the first few 2011 Sonatas arrive. I predict you'll see them at MSRP or even with ADM added, and no rebates. If you doubt that, recall that is what happened in early 2005 when the Gen 4 Sonata debuted. That kind of pricing didn't last long, but it's typical when a new design comes out. So if you want a good deal on a 2011, be prepared to wait a bit. Those who are "chomping at the bit" to get one will pay a premium.
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That would be a very safe bet. Especially if Hyundai keeps the price point below the competition, which they are likely to do.
I was looking at a new 2007 Elantra SE when they first came out in 2006. It was well equipped with a sticker around $17,400 I believe. I was interested until I saw $1,000 ADM on the window, making the price $18,400. I about swallowed my gum! :mad:
I haven't looked at a Hyundai since....
the 2011. When it hits the showroom floor at first it may not come with
any kind of rebate, you may try to wheel and deal but if the interest is
as high as I think, that may not fly either. But again Hyundai will do what
it takes to put the vehicles in their customers garage, that IMO is a plus
for Hyundai and us. "Patience may be the cure."
To some people money is no object, so go for it, it will probably be worth
it anyway!
van