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Agreed, which is an excellent reason not to care about resale value. Once you've decided that car X is at the top of its class & is the best car for you, how much more do you need to know?
You're basing your whole premise on how you do things and what you think is important and extrapulate that to the general public. Lots of people don't own a car for 8-10 years, they might keep it 3-4 years, so resale value is very important to them. I'm not saying that's the most economical way to it but that is their perogative and I'm not telling anybody what they should or shouldn't do. People that lease obviously consider resale(residual) very important because their payment is based on it. Just because you do things a certain way that makes resale value not that important to you, don't assume that is how most people do it or should do it.
As long as we're bragging, I also pay cash for my new vehicles and have so for the last twenty years. I've also been buying cars for 45 years so I guess that makes me an authority on other peoples buying habits, huh? Not.
I do agree that resale value shouldn't be foremost in the buying decision but just another factor. However, depending the individual, it may rank higher for some versus others like yourself.
No, I'm wasn't extrapolating from my experiences. I apologize if lack of clarity on my part has given you that impression. And, yes, I know that I'm not a typical car buyer.
But I have yet to meet a buyer for whom resale value really matters. (He seems to occupy that same mythical space as the guy who always remembers his wife's birthday & never forgets to put down the toilet seat.) Most of my friends call into the 3 to 5 year category, but as far as I can tell, resale value didn't play a big role in their buying decisions.
When I pump them for information about why they bought what they did - & I always do - their answers invariably come down to:
(1) seating & ride comfort (a real biggy for buyers over 45)
(2) styling
(3) carrying capacity ("I need something that will hold my golf clubs & my 2 hulking teenagers")
(4) brand loyalty ("I'll never drive anything but a [fill in blank]")
(5) convenience ("I always buy from [dealer name] because they're a block away from where I work")
(6) fuel economy (for those with long commutes)
(7) safety (real or perceived)
(8) longstanding relationship with the salesman ("Stan & I go way back. He always gives me great deals.")
(9) business related (given as a reason by stockbroker friends for buying 7-series BMWs or S-class Mercedes Benzes - to take clients to lunches)
(10) male menopause (this applies to my extremely overweight 50-something neighbor who buys a new Porsche Boxster S every 3 years, even though he's too fat to fit comfortably behind the wheel & can drive it only about 500 miles per year).
Frequently,when a neighbor is bragging about his new car, he'll mention its high resale value. But when I press him for details, I find out that this really didn't figure in his decision-making.
You're absolutely right about leasing. I forgot about that. Residual values directly affect monthly payments. I should have made it clearer that I was talking about buyers.
Impressions? Largely favorable. I think that it's the style leader in this segment. I'm also sorry that Hyundai doesn't offer a stick in the top trim group, but I'm not surprised. That's just the way the world is moving -- away from sticks.
I haven't driven it but I suspect that 200 hp should be more than adequate for most people. Still, it wouldn't surprise me if Hyundai offered a V-6 in a couple of years - around the time of the mid-cycle refresh.
I wouldn't buy one now because I make it a point to stay away from any new model, no matter who makes it, until it's been out for at least a year.
This will be a smashing sales success for Hyundai.
Agree, going to take all those frustrated Toyota owners who cannot stop their cars.
Hyundai has done it again!
Maybe the original video is the Korean version? Also check out this video - same race taken from a different angle. The Sonata won by a long shot this time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjY5Hz0FHts&feature=related
I also have never forgotten my wife's birthday, and in 5 years of marriage have never once been yelled at for leaving the seat up.
Oh well...maybe this means a good deal on a Genesis at the end of the year if they can't move them.
Personally I never consider resale value when considering a car. Personally the two things I look at first are if I like the car and does it fit ny needs for the foreseeable future.
As an accountant I would actually advise against considering resale value. The reason why is that there is a certain level of irony in using resale value in determining if you will buy a car. Considering resale value means that you have plans in selling the car after a certain number of years so you can recoup more of your initial investment when you buy a new car. However if you truly want to be fiscally prudent you would hold onto the car until it was just about run into the ground. Keeping one car 12 years is much less expensive than buying 3 or 4 cars over that time frame.
So basically if you keep a car for 10-15 years and put on 150-200K miles than resale value is practically meaningless.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
plans to be out in the fall, not sure of HP they said it
wasn't decided yet, he also said the V6 shop is still
open and anything is possible, Plant tour was awesome!!!
Considering millions of accord/camry/malibu/etc. buyers over the years have done just fine with way less than that, I think it should be able to get out of it's own way.
ANd isn't the take rate on the V6 on the CamCord only in the 10% range?
SO I don't think it will hold sales back any, and the Turbo should be a nice compromise for the minority that just needs more HP.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Here in Canada it looks like the turbo and hybrid are arriving this year.
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posteddriving/archive/2010/02/10/toront- o-auto-show-starts-friday.aspx
You're right about the take rate on the V6, somewhere between 10-15%, closer to 10% I believe. Will Hyundai lose all of those V6 buyers? I doubt it. A lot, if they like Hyundai period, will opt for turbo when it becomes available. Some will probably think that 198/200 hp is adequate after all. They may lose the rest which I think is a very small number considering they are really trying to ensure they remain the "leading mpg car manufacturer in the US". No trucks helps that claim to a large degree in my opinion.
Most people look for safety, economy, handling, finish, price, comfort in a family sedan. Very few care I4/v6,0-60 etc.(most family sedans are I4 in 15- 30k range)
Old days v8 was in huge size and heavy, v6 replaced with better power and less weight, now I4 will take over to give way to Turbo in future.
With reduction in weight, new engine technology and 6 speed box, 2011 Sonata has reduce gap between I4-v6 and improved fuel economy guess very few family guys will notice any change in acceleration, lane changing.
I have been a long pro-[non-permissible content removed] guy and have loved Honda, Subaru of the lot till 2006, when I was in market for a car, Honda snobs pushed me to a new Sonata 06 LX loaded. I save 5K upfront and had more features like ESC. I am glad I changed. Love the car, Shiftronic stick.
Regarding resale price, I know, I saved upfront for a better car with great warranty, peace of mind. I normally do not change with models, so what I get few years down the road is not a major issue but if the Hyundai stay course, it will improved a lot, considering recent Toyota/Honda problems.
I know first year model have teething problems but now Hyundai is well learnt from past mistake and put my trust in 2006 and do not regret. Not any problem so far except ESC recall and washer pump which they took care very well at my time.
I am in market to add another car in stable but wait a while for better rebate when dust settles in couple of months.
I had driven Honda EX I4, even though Honda engines are smooth, it made lot of noise in aggressive driving at higher rev. How this Sonata engine is? Has anyone got a test? I yet to see one and test drive.
I wish Hyundai has split options like Nav/Sun roof. New solid state Nav should be trouble free.
Keep experience comments flowing......Happy Hyundaing.......
I imagine that is just for the rollout though. Otherwise they will lose some sales over it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
chopped off on my monitor.
The V6 market on all Camrys and Accords is thin. Most people are price shoppers and they opt for the 4cyl.
4 cyl motors are the future with Turbo's. Audi makes 258lb ft od torque out of a 2 litre Turbo 4. Why have a 6 when a 4 is so close and 2-3 MPG better. I'd take a turbo 4 with high torque over a V6 anyday in a smaller car like the Sonata.
Considering the new Sonata is so lightweight (not 3500 lbs. like the 2010 V6) I expect the 200 HP I4 to move plenty fast. Believe me, I test drove the 2010 Sonata V6 SE and it just didn't feel like it had the same punch when you hit the gas pedal as even my 2004 does, mostly thanks to the added weight of that car. My girlfriend agreed also. The 2010 V6 does 0-60 in a little over 7 seconds, which I expect the new Sonata can almost match even with the smaller engine.
The turbo is going to be awesome, but I am wondering what they will cost. If they add $2000 to the SE that means you are up to almost $25,500 with the destination charge.. still a good deal if they crank out enough horsepower to beat the next generation of V6 competition like Accord and Camry. Maybe we can pray for something really high like 290?
Thanks for the tip.
Don't know who you're praying to but I highly doubt it will be anywhere close to 290. Maybe 260ish but probably closer to 250. Remember, the name of the game going forward is called CAFE. Hyundai is leading the pack at this point and wants to stay ahead. They aren't making a race car here, it is a family sedan. If all they wanted to do was make the Sonata go fast, they have engines that would do the job. But that would suck gas and that is not the direction they are heading.
it looks much better in person. ya'll need to go check it out. i was amazed. This destroys Camry, Accord, Altima, and fusion. I do have soft spot for Malibu, but i gotta admit Sonata is better looking.
One final point, I can understand all the excitement over the new engines coming out for the 2011 Sonata but don't forget that the V6 is IMO a darn good engine in its own right.
I'm just saying that the direction of the new Sonata is a winning combination in any car - more HP and more importantly less weight. If I wanted maxium HP regardless of weight, I'd just buy a semi. 1000+ HP, damn they must fly! Oh wait it's 15 tons.
First, let's not compare an accountant with a financial advisor, that credential is entirely irrelevant to this conversation. Secondly, while it is indisputable that owning a car until the repair costs exceed the costs of replacement maximizes the benefit of your investment, it's also fairly uncommon. It would be terrible financial advice to tell someone who knows with relative certainty that they will only own the car for a certain number of years that to use decision criteria that does not follow their expected future behavior.
This would be akin to telling someone in their early sixties that they should have all of their retirement funds in equities (historically high return compared to other asset classes) even though they are retiring in a few years and would be at great risk for significant losses within that timeframe.
Don't throw out a credential as support for a faulty arguement.
a pretty high up guy, and he said probably the fall, the HP rating has not
been
really determined, it is still in the test stage.
Hope this helps.. Gary
PS, I am still in full contact with him we share our views good or bad, it was his
idea to stay in contact he respected what I had to say. I told him about being on
the forum, he calls for info. You want a reasonable answer I can get it, if it
has not been released yet I can't pass it on. Have a good weekend!
GLS, man: $18,390 / $19,195
GLS, auto: $19,335 / $20,195
SE: $21,377 / $ 22,595
Limited: $23,648 / 25,295
vehicles they make there, he said some changes were in store for the Santa Fe,
Hope that helped!
Just for info and point of interest I can give information on how to set up a tour.
It is very informative, if you have a chance, don't miss it, and it,s free!
tested. The 09 and 2010 are 1 in the same, off the assembly line 1 behind the
other. The subject is 0-60 2004 V6 V/ 2009 V6 six. If what I see above on the
2004 is accurate, just pull up to me side by side, I will leave mine in auto with
the ESC on, stand back and watch what happens.
OK on the 0-60 for the 2009 V6, the 6.9 was an average it went as high as 7.3
and as low as 6.6 this was the first set of test runs by people not familiar with
all the aspects of how this vehicle is designed. First of all on the engine the
HP rating of 249 is at about 6000 to 6200 RPM's, on the auto side it will shift
at a preset time or speed. This will cause a loss of RPM', HP, and torque.
If you have 1 try it. Now in the manuel side you control the shift time 6000,
7000, redline whatever you can stand " the car will stand it" or it would not
be built that, remember the warranty. Now a major factor, the gear ratio in
manuel is much lower than auto. I don,t remember the exact numbers but 1'st
in the manuel is like 411 (if you are from the old school like me) you know
what that is, compared to the auto side under 300. Huge difference, now add
a very, very important factor the ESC, with it on will limit the torque to the
drive wheels to prevent tire to surface traction, shifting traction from wheel
to wheel, in manuel you have positive traction another huge difference no lose
of RPM or tourqe. The idea comes from the B&M shifter on cars made for the
1/4 mile track, less shifting more HP and touque delivered. Now you put all
these factors in play to get off the line with a real 1/4 mile driver you get very
low 6,s averages, say like 6.4 and below 6.0. Owners of the 09/10 SE V6 go
where it's safe with plenty room and no traffic, drop it in manuel 1st and take
the ESC off, and get ready for a jump you never thought your little midize family
sedan had. Please be very carefull if it,s your 1'st time you can easily loose
control so take it easy to start. Try it and come back and tell everyone if I'm
i'm full of crap or not, remember I'm from the old school. LOL
P.S. Most contributors appear to know a great deal about cars. Too bad they don't know how to spell.
This would be akin to telling someone
No, it would be akin to telling someone who is about to replace a perfectly good couch with a brand new one only because he has a 50% off coupon and thinks they are saving money with the purchase.
Do complain about others using faulty logic when you use it so freely yourself.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
As to the turbos others are mentioning, what are the downsides of turbo engines? Other than less MPG I'm assuming, which is fine, do they typically have more maintenance troubles?