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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall



  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    anythingbutgm says, "Think about this in a different way. Just because there is a spew of recalls going on here, does it mean that Toyota products still won't last as long as they always have? I mean, as far as I'm concerned (and I'm just looking at this from an outsiders POV) if I had a Toyota product that was affected, I would probably be peeved yes, but I would take it to the dealer, get it fixed and drive on. I'm sure the engine and drivetrain will still last forever, the quality of the vehicle in general (build, mechanical, interior, whatever) will still be at least to Toyota standards of the past few years, and the amount of unscheduled repairs will still be low. Toyota has always scored well in having the lowest ownership costs. My gosh, the way posters on here sound it's like every Toyota on the road is Christine or something. Anyways my point is that Toyota is catching a ton of flack because they were on top for so long and up until recently it was rightly deserved. Now people are treating the situation like their cars are all of a sudden Russian Ladas or Yugos never mind Audis. It's just so over the top."

    VERY well said. ( insert sound of hands clapping )
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Um, Yes, Hummer's problems are not BLASTED across the news every five minutes. Duh.

    Take that survey in a year and get back to us....
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Many thanks! This is great to hear. Guess my issue regarding brake vacuum left when engine turned off to ACC resolved. I have not tried test turning off to ACC, I just placed in neutral at 60. Will have to try turning off, see what happens. You know me - safety first. Will be safe place.

    Yes, I too really encourage all to try. My son said I had to get out and try - see what my vehicle would do. Seeing, then actually doing best.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Also known as,

    "bitter fired whistleblower getting his 15 minutes"

    These cases are usually not as bad as a short news blurb can make them out to be.
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Richmond VAPosts: 177
    "How many vendors, worldwide, for the firmware for controlling all these automotive DBW systems, Denso, Bosch, Siemens...??"

    Is Toyota buying some from Lucas? :confuse:
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,179
    the quality of the vehicle in general (build, mechanical, interior, whatever) will still be at least to Toyota standards of the past few years

    That may be the problem. In visiting with friends last night the subject came up. They currently drive a 2005 Camry which they like and are not concerned about. What they did say I have heard more than once. The 1995 Camry traded in on their 2005 Camry was a better riding, handling car. And it was quieter out on the highway. My cousin told me the same thing about her late 1990s Camry. She kept the older Camry for driving to work and bought a 2007 Camry for trips. She does NOT like the 2007 as well as the 98 model.

    So you are right about the cars being up to the standards of the last few years. Just not up to the standards in the 1990s that Toyota built their stellar reputation on.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..standards in the 1990's..."

    It's really hard to sell Lexus ES300/350, etc, if the Toyota Camry's are just as quiet and comfortably riding, etc, and thereby really viable competition.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Toyota is catching a ton of flack because they lied to their customers and denyed anything was wrong with their cars placing ALL the blame on their customers. Now the 2010 Prius and what does Toyota say. Oh, its no big deal, just under certain circumstances you may or may not lose braking for about a second. At 60mph what is a second? 90 feet or so? Could be the difference between life and death.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,179
    Funny you should mention that. My cousin who could easily afford the ES350 opted for another Camry. The reason was the big bucks difference. She could not understand how they could get that much more for a glorified Camry. I wonder if your well made point ever occurred to her. She drove a Cressida until she bought the Camry and gave my aunt the Cressida. She always missed the Cressida. That was probably the pinnacle for Toyota. They cheapened the whole Toyota line to make the Lexus line look good.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,179
    At 60 MPH you are traveling about 90 ft per second. If you have one car length for every 10 MPH between you and the person in front of you that is 120 ft. The average reaction time for a driver is 215 milliseconds. You are driving your 2010 geek mobile down the freeway and the guy in his Golf TDI slams on the brakes. You react 215 milliseconds later and your brakes do not react for another 1000 milliseconds. The Golf is stopped in 110 ft from when you saw the brake light. Your brakes have not even started to take hold as you have traveled more than 110 feet. So you slam into him at the full 60 MPH. At normal 70 MPH it would be even worse.

    If you have 120 ft between you and the guy in front of you in CA two people will slide in there. Very lucky to keep 3 car lengths distance at 70+ MPH around here.
  • jdm9jdm9 Posts: 38
    Yes your absolutely 100% correct, as I stated in post 702 and previuos posts, this all might not help one little bit if the malfunctioning computer wont allow you to shift into nuetral or turn off the ignition. That remains unknown, but in a mechanical event this will work, so the way I figure it you have near 100% % certainty in a mechanical event and unknown (does that mean 50/50 probabilility) response in an electronic occurance but as I said in previous posts the lack of Toyota leadership on this issue has left us all pretty much on our own so you might as well have the knowledge and expertise and hopefully never be in the position that you have to use it, but if you ever unfortunately are in the position of facing UA at least you can go down fighting.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 12,033
    i posted 2 pictures, but you only saw one? ok.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    So you are saying to don't believe it to be true?

    Toyota Willfully Deceptive

    The beleaguered automaker is facing renewed allegations that it systematically withheld information and ignored safety issues that could have prevented fatal accidents.

    Dmitrios Biller, a former Toyota lawyer who handled product liability lawsuits, said in multiple media interviews that the automaker willfully tried to suppress evidence of defects.

    "Toyota is a very secretive corporation," Biller told the Los Angeles Times. "It doesn't believe anybody outside the corporation deserves to know what is going on inside, even if it kills somebody."

    "You have to understand that Toyota in Japan does not have any respect for our legal system. They did not have any respect for our laws," he also told ABC News.

    The claims add yet another layer to Toyota's safety controversy: the company has recalled nearly 4.5 million vehicles worldwide to repair faulty accelerator pedals; the U.S. government announced a broad investigation - extending beyond Toyota - into suspected problems with electronic systems that could affect engines; and the automaker admitted its popular Prius hybrids had a design flaw in the brake system, which the government will also probe.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    I love it. Isn't this great.
  • tomjavatomjava Posts: 136
    You have to understand that Toyota in Japan does not have any respect for our legal system. They did not have any respect for our laws," he also told ABC News.

    Really :confuse:
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    Interesting. Thanks for the links. While I didn't read fully the 2d report, it begins fairly strongly anti-Toyota and NHTSA in tone, suggesting gremlins in the software are to blame.

    Software gremlins work for me. But Toyota, NHTSA, and other car makers with complaints of UA have all had a difficult time identifying those gremlins. In the meantime, the powers that be demand action.

    Another troubling difficulty is separating product defect from human error. Both exist. NHTSA, in its investigation of 2007 ES350 cars in Ohio, recognized the difficulty. So they conducted a random survey of model owners, who reported unexpectedly high incidents of problems. Still, NHTSA couldn't connect any incident to anything other than floor mats. While they didn't conclude anything, nor rule out anything, this and other preliminary reports probably helped Toyota reach the (premature) conclusion it did.

    The same problem exists with the current recall of gas pedal assemblies. They haven't been connected to single accident. Toyota appears to be in a frantic search for something to fix, anything will do.
  • dturrdturr Posts: 70
    More reports of Toyota cover up in the UK and some sites are questioning why a whole new pedal assembly has not been made available.
    Many are questioning the fix or repair,
    Seems that they are not prepared to accept a cover up by the Japanese.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Did Toyota Hide Life-Saving Information?

    The secretary announced a new probe of the Toyota electronics system that links the gas pedal, through a tiny computer, to the throttle.

    Some experts believe there is a software glitch or that the computer is susceptible to electromagnetic waves.

    "It's the electronics, it's not the pedal," said Keith Armstrong, an an electromagnetic interference expert who was interviewed just this week as part of the new federal safety probe of Toyota.

    Toyota's top executives have repeatedly denied there is any electronic problem that could cause their cars to speed out of control.

    Toyota's U.S. president, Jim Lentz, told ABC News on Monday that he was "confident" there is no electronic problem.

    But a former top Toyota lawyer who left the company in 2007 says the company cannot be believed, that officials in Tokyo give orders to hide evidence of defects that could be damaging to the company.


    Four people were killed on December 26th last year when a 2008 Toyota Avalon crashed through a fence and landed upside down in a pond in Southlake, TX.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 21,503
    >Scott Yon met with two former colleagues (including Chris Santucci) who left the government to work for Toyota. Santucci testified back in December that the limited scope of investigations "worked out well for both the agency and Toyota."

    But it hasn't worked out well for those in accidents and those who died. :confuse: :lemon:

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    We Will Never Forget...


    California Highway Patrol officer Mark Saylor was driving a 2009 Lexus, on loan from his dealer, with his wife, daughter and brother-in-law in August 2009 along a highway outside of San Diego. (ABC News)


    Saylor's brother-in-law, Chris Lastrella, was also in the car and called 911 when the car took off on them. Chris told a 911 operator that the accelerator was stuck and the brakes were not working. (ABC News)


    All four people died after the Lexus hit a vehicle, crashed into an embankment and burst into flames. (ABC News)


    Toyota said the accident was caused by a wrong-sized, all-weather rubber floor mat in the car that was pushed down and caught the gas pedal, holding it down. (ABC News)


    The funeral procession carrying all four hearses with the caskets of Mark Saylor, his wife Cleofe LaStrella Saylor, their daughter Mahala Saylor and Cleofe's brother Chris LaStrella left the Corpus Christi Catholic Church en route to Glen Abbey Memorial Park for internment after services. (PEGGY PEATTIE/Union-Tribune/ZUMApress/Newscom)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,179
    Better be careful. I got called derogatory names for reminding people of that horrible accident. That could have been avoided if Toyota and Lexus were a bit more proactive in their pursuit of perfection. Especially in keeping their dealers in line and informed.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    That could have been avoided if Toyota and Lexus were a bit more proactive in their pursuit of perfection. Especially in keeping their dealers in line and informed.

    Yes, exactly. Nothing wrong with stating the truth. Unfortunately, meaning times people just don't like nor can they handle it. Like Toyota, most of their life is spent in denial. ;)
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    You are welcome. It appears this is one of the consumer watchdog agencies. The head of this agency seems to be quoted many times by newspapers. That is how I discovered site..

    The second report I finally did read, but have not completely analyzed yet. Actually found some interesting observations. Incident reports when a owner on voluntary basis only files - seems DHTSA investigations/possible investigations complaints have been restricted as to what UA incident is. And was per Toyota request so actual numbers are much less., and lots are ignored - with this site challenging. They do show some conflicts of what DHTSA states, and what the actual owner's reports show. The experts statements about the quality of DHSTA investigation appears good. But don't even claim to know who they are.

    Yes, they do appear to be after Toyota this time, and appears to be after DHTSA for not doing thorough enough investigation. If what this site claims is true and factual, I did see faulty DHTSA investigation research present. If you go to their article Sudden Acceleration it mentions many manufacturers.

    To be objective & fair to this site, I do see they will go after any manufacturer. Also see they say UA problem is not just Toyota.

    Your comment:
    "The same problem exists with the current recall of gas pedal assemblies. They haven't been connected to single accident."
    I am not sure. But have seen this claim too..Note second Report from that site has many complaints at the end.

    Just passing along for everyone to review. compare. Just me trying to look at all I can find.

    I am just listening to CNN and past head of DHSTA is on. She states DHSTA has not been investigating well. Etc. Shucks missed rest of interview. H-mmmm

    You mention "powers to be" - as in NHTSA? Have seen lots on DHTSA - seem to be in protective mode too. Guess they have to be kept honest too.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I spoke with my son and he was not sure if ignition switch of my particular model was connected to a computer board. But said it sure could be. His expertise is Porsche, BMW, Bentley, VW,etc. No help unfortunately.

    Hopefully all systems would not shut down/lockup at once.

    I do agree would sure be nice to see a simple manual emergency vehicle shutdown switch.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    FYI only - Friendly heads up

    This link is Safety Report. Refer to UA incidents - as you go down in article reference is made as to what happened to this ex attorney for Toyota. Seems attorney in Texas asked for court order to produce Biller's files - possibly discovery - all records now under court seal. Seems 17 cases Texas attorney was hoping to pursue - dismissed in December. Seems like Toyota won. What happens to Biller now - and his case not sure.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "...dealers in line.."

    Sorry, we, the US public, are at fault there. US auto dealers have managed to get state laws passed that protect them from close oversight/directives and management by/of the manufacturers.
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    >>>"The same problem exists with the current recall of gas pedal assemblies. They haven't been connected to single accident."

    I base that on comments from the director of automobile testing for Consumer Reports magazine, who also thought the reaction to the recall "overblown."

    And the preliminary report on the San Diego-area Lexus crash by NHTSA found:

    "Upon removal of the pedal from the vehicle, the rotational motion of the pedal assembly was confirmed to still be operational. The return action was smooth and unencumbered."

    Of course I'm not ruling anything out, just that some evidence connecting the faulty pedal to an accident would be nice if we're going to conclude it's responsible for UA and resulting accidents.
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Richmond VAPosts: 177
    Evidence? Next you'll want everybody to stop jumping to conclusions until there are some hard facts.

    People demanded "do something now" and they did.

    The Federal government has more UA than any Toyota. Have you seen the size of the deficit and the out of control budget? We're broken.
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