Attractive Older Cars and Why You Think So

wilcox · November 1999

........cool picture.

bubukitty · November 1999

Here is a really cool Bugatti---the EB 18/3 Chiron. This one is the super car type I was thinking they ought to produce!

Mr_Shiftright · November 1999

Not my favorite angle on this car!

Have you seen the interior? It's quite something.

bubukitty · November 1999

Shifty...saw this car in Road & Track and the interior looks pretty cool. This photo is from a Franch car magazine (could not find on the R&T web site). Have you seen this car in the flesh?

wilcox · December 1999

saw one of these yesterday on side of road for sale. It was twotone and it looked to be in great condition body wise. The top was down and the windows were up. It was a pretty sight.

The only place it could be of any practical application would be a parade IMO.

bobs5 · December 1999

My mom used to have a Metropolitan when she and my father first were married in 1960.
When it was her turn for taking the kids
(my sister and her friends)to school, it took like 3 trips back and forth to get them all there.

Mr_Shiftright · December 1999

They are pretty cute...much nicer to look at than to drive...pretty foul-handling car...basically an Austin with an MGA engine, 3-speed column shift and single carburator, all floating on a rather primitive chassis and suspension. But in spite of all the negatives, it would be fun to own one if it were cheap to buy.

wilcox · December 1999

has been recognized as a beauty, especially when compared to the styling of the 53 chevy or ford! Incedentally, back in the mid seventies,I once owned a '53 chevy 4 door black sedan. Paid $125 for it. Drove it three quarters of a year, had to put new generator on it. Sold it back to same person I bought it from for $125.

bhill2 · December 1999

Since Studebakers have been introduced, I could see some of the Hawks being included in this topic. Even the Grand Turismo Hawk, although a little glitzed up, had beautiful lines. In fact, I wouldn't mind having one. Anybody know how they hold up and how difficult it is to get parts?

Mr_Shiftright · December 1999

Pretty sturdy car, but no sports car, of course. Typical American tank of the period, but more attractive than many early 60s coupes. You could find most parts, but some trim pieces might be tough. Lots of NOS stuff still floating around, amazingly. Since it's more of a GT car than sports car, I'd tend to go with the automatic rather than the 4-speed.

isellhondas · December 1999

A Sunliner was a Ford convertable. Wasn't the Stude called a Starlight?

Mr_Shiftright · December 1999

They had a Starlight Coupe and a Starliner Hardtop, yes, that's right, and Ford had the Sunliner.

wilcox · December 1999

that's it... Goes to show you, the memory is the second thing to go.....

rea98d · December 1999

Now what was the first again?

Shifty, I saw a car that, in my opinion, would pass your "Strip it to the sheetmetal and see if it still looks good" test. You guys are gonna think I'm crazy, but I saw a Nash Rambler in a junkyard, and despite having awful paint, your typical junkyard interior, three flats and one missing tire, it still looked good (to me anyway). Give her a paint job, some tires, and a little upholstry, and you'd have one beautiful car. (She's a junker, so I have no idea about mechanicals or year model, but hey, she looked good to me, and that's what this topics about isn't it?)

Mr_Shiftright · December 1999

Oh, you may be referring to the body designed by Pinanfarina of Italy for Nash:

rea98d · December 1999

Or at least pretty close. (I think it was a four door though) It didn't have the spare tire on the back, and instead of being brown & white like this one, it was primer grey & rust. It was all surface rust easily sanded off, and if I had had the money, I probably would have bought it out of that wrecking yard and started restoring it, just for kicks.

isellhondas · December 1999

You probably dodged a bullitt, BIG TIME!

Shifty, Nice photo!

Mr_Shiftright · December 1999

Unfortunately, they are not really worth restoring except as therapy, of course. You'll never see your investment back, and it is a pudgy little flathead motor, so you'll go slow too.

rea98d · January 2000

I've decided restoration is not how to get rich. The only way I'd do it is for hobby, and/or because I like the car (like my old mercury). Besides being fun to rebuild a car, I think it'd be cool to cruise around in a Nash. I'd still like to know the secret to posting photos on edmunds though.

moparmad · January 2000

My meager opinion is the most beautiful car I have ever seen was a 1957 Chrysler 300C.It was black with a red interior,and had more chrome than a Harley Davidson showroom.Of coarse there was also this '70 In Violet Hemicuda,and those Jaguars with the long bubbly nose...This topic is so hard!And then you throw in those late 90's Eclipse's.I just can't make up my mind,can I take a mulligan?

rea98d · January 2000

Here's my vote for most attractive:

wilcox · January 2000

Now you are talking!

wilcox · January 2000

first impression was a Lumina

Mr_Shiftright · January 2000

It looks better "in person"...the photo sort of squashes it. Best view, IMO is front, worst is rearward.

I'd say mostly successful, unoffensive looks, but this homage to retro is getting old.

rea98d · January 2000

Hey, I'd rather have "homage to retro" than "homage to groundbreaking style of the 1980's"

Wilcox, I never noticed it before, but the side angle does make it look sorta like a Lumina. Must be the back glass and the crease down the side.

bubukitty · January 2000

I agree with Shifty here. i really like the front end on the car. It is the rear side view and rear end I don't care too much for. It definitely is a much better looking car in person.

There has been a lot of comment on the alternate discussion to this (Ugliest Cars of All Time) about the Taurus/Sable. Who here thinks that the newly re-styled Tuarus is a great looking car? I really like it a lot. It is amazing what a new front and rear end will do to a style and getting rid of the oval theme. An amazing transformation.

rea98d · January 2000

As for the new Sable/Taurus, I'll have to put my check in the "ugly" box. Ford tried, they really did, but they goofed.

rea98d · January 2000

Okay, I'm going to try to jump start some conversation here. Opinions on this one:

A 1962 Aston Martin DB4

Mr_Shiftright · January 2000

What's not to like? It's a beautiful car any way you look at it. There's not a line out of place--it looks like it was carved from one piece of solid steel (Usually the mark of a good design). Muscular in the flanks, strong grillwork and hood vent to tell you there is POWER in there (and there is!), solid stance on its wheels, no gross overhang front or rear, plexi over the headlights suggesting speed and fluidity, thin A-pillars, the airiness of wire wheels.

It says so much with so little effort. It's simply lovely.

rea98d · January 2000

That's why I put it this topic instead of the ugly one :-) The only thing I would change would be the color though. What about red?

Mr_Shiftright · January 2000

Ummm....nah, not on British cars...I think sportscars look best in their country's traditional racing colors or something close. E.G., Ferrari--red, Jaguar--Green, USA--Blue & White, German--Silver, French--Blue (I think I got that right).

rea98d · January 2000

Okay, British racing green then. Just not grey. A little too boring for such a cool car. (Too bad the new ones are overpriced Jag knockoffs (thank you Ford Motor Company)).

bubukitty · January 2000

Thanks for posting this beauty. One of my favorites! The car is actually a DB4GT Zagato. The regular DB4 production cars had a Touring (Italian design firm) body, but the car shown has a body by Zagato (another Italian firm) and is very rare, thus making it VERY expensive to boot. An absolutely stunning car. The color looks a little off in the picture, making it look grey. I think the actual color may be a light green color (sort of a sea mist green). The DB4GT Zagatos that I have seen have been of this light green color rather than the traditional BRG.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2000

You can buy this car today for a mere $1 million dollars. That's the going rate at the moment.

bubukitty · January 2000

A cool million! WOW. I was hoping that my investment in the stock market would have done better so I could afford one of these! Fantasy Junction recently had a DB4 with a Zagato rebody identical to car in the picture. I think they wanted in the neighborhood of $200k, which isn't bad when the real thing is $1M, however, then you don't have the real think but a replica....sure would fool a lot of people though! Changing cars for a moment, here is one that I mentioned a while back as a favorite; a 250 GT Lusso Ferrari. This one is particularly stunning.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2000

That Lusso looks even a bit overdone, but it is lovely nonetheless. These cars are still a good value. You can buy a very nice Lusso for about $115K-125K, and you get a "real" Ferrari (front engine V-12). They aren't terribly fast cars, sad to say, but they sound great and you can motor right along without any trouble. Certainly an appreciating classic, albeit not really jumping in value at any great rate (that's good).

bubukitty · January 2000

I'm glad it isn't going up too fast in value, not that I could ever afford one (or its upkeep!) anyway. One of these days.........

Mr_Shiftright · January 2000

Yeah, figure $1 a mile to drive a Ferrari...the only car that would be worse for cost of maintenance would be a Rolls Royce.

toomanychoices · February 2000

My grandfather owned one of these Jaguar Mark 2s in black. My father called it the "gangster car," my mother said it drove "like a truck," and my grandfather loved to drive it on the days when it wasn't in the shop!

Style-wise, nothing much beats it lines, however.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2000

They were nice cars, and with wire wheels and overdrive transmission, bring a nice price today, around $20,000. Most Americans didn't have good luck with them because they bought them with automatics and also took them to the local gas station to be worked on, or should I say worked over.

speedshift · February 2000

All that Jag needs is a 350. Preferably one that runs on eight cylinders.

rea98d · February 2000

Those 350 V-8 powered Jags are disaffectionatly known in Jaguar circles as "Lumps" And IMO, the only real advantage you get out of the operation is a decent alternator and transmission, and an outfit out of Dallas will sell you the kit to replace those two items and still keep the XK engine. And Shifty, look at that car, cause that's where the new S-Types styling comes from, not a BMW.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2000

It's a real shame to get rid of the jaguar engine and put in a Chevy 350, because a) you throw away the best part of the Jaguar, and you also add much more noise and vibration with an American V-8. Aside from its amazing durability, the Jaguar engine/transmission is mounted a very special way for smoothness, and you can't duplicate this with the mounting required for the Chevy V-8. Perhaps with a virtually worthless XJ6 this is not such crime, but to do that to a MkII 3.8 would not only ruin the car, but take about $15,000 off the price.

If you want a 4-door V-8, buy a Buick!

speedshift · February 2000

Jeez, you guys, I was kidding!

Mr_Shiftright · February 2000

Sick humor! Like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa I guess....:)

speedshift · February 2000

I should start using those

symbols.

Sorry to be so neanderthal, even in jest. The Mona Lisa analogy is one I came up with on my own. Shiftright, it's no coincidence that our names are so similar. We're probably distantly related.

I don't know if this is the right forum, but it seems apropos: In a year I'll need another car, and I'd really like a '60s driver. I need four doors and A/C, priced under $20K. Most people here drive Suburbans or imported sedans, so old American iron is out. Would the Mark II or S-Type make a good driver today (Jag-powered, of course; you make a persuasive argument)? What are my chances of finding a stick/AC combination? How can I make the car as reliable as possible (thanks for the above tips)? I'm OK with periodic maintenance, and maybe one breakdown a year. My Mark X was very reliable, but could run a little hot. Is this a common problem? Any other suggestions? Thanks.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2000

Personally, I don't see an old Jag as ever being totally reliable as an everyday driver, but I could see you getting a nice one and staying on top of it so that it doesn't break down EVERY day.

Overheating is just an engineering deficiency with Jags but you could overcome it with electric fans and/or oversize radiators. Other than that, if you put on an American or German alternator and got rid of the Lucas equipment, that would help a great deal, as would adding electronic ignition, changing all the fuses and renewing the battery cables. So perhaps for $1,500 or so you could make an old Jag much more reliable than normal, but it will never be a Toyota. I think the XJ6 would be worse because of poor automatics, inboard brakes (on the early ones, requiring the removal of the entire rear axle to change the brake pads--DUH!), plus the usual overheating and flakey electrics on top of all that.

But investing in all this to drive around a MkII would be worth it, I think. Jaguars are curable to some extent, but it would require having it non-stock to get rid of some of Jaguar's more egregious errors.

speedshift · February 2000

These modifications sound reasonable. I'm not looking for complete reliability, just a fighting chance of making it to an appointment.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2000

I know people who've done modifications like this and have been very pleased with the results. I think it also depends on your climate and your driving conditions. Extremes of heat and cold are the hardest conditions to operate an old Jag in.

rea98d · February 2000

The site I got the picture from (www.jag-lovers.org) is a great source of information on Jags. Check it out before you buy one. They have enough information you could spend weeks reading through all of it. They tell the good and the bad about Jaguars, and what to do to fix them. One of my favorite websites.

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