I crammed my parents into the back seat of the Wrangler and drove an hour up the 101 for Mother's Day Brunch. Always a hoot! They're the reason I bought the handle add-on, but -- humourously -- they refuse to use it on principle. Dad: "I don't need that thing!" Thank goodness the passenger seat slides forward. And thank goodness they're good sports about it.
Don't do it. Go and rent a storage closet for 6 months. Total cost shouldn't be more that a couple of hunder bucks. Having dual tops I can tell you I would never not want my hard top, and I live in Memphis. By October I'm ready to put the hard top back on. It's like having two different cars.
But to answer your question, in your neck of the woods, for an '03 hard top, I'd say you could easily get 800 to 1000 bones.
Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. I've been telling my granddaughter to slow that Jeep down, but she just wouldn't listen. Maybe a speeding ticket will get her attention.
Ok I was driving through some water when it got much deeper than I expected; high enough to reach my intake. I was almost out when I stalled out. Now it won't turn over. I took of the intake, throtle body, distributer cap, and pulled the plugs, two of the four were wet, I also found water in the intake manifold. What do I do next? It's an 03 2.4 liter four with a manual transmission.
Thanks Tom. It took me 3 years to finally make up my mind and buy a wrangler. I was really nervous when I ordered it that I would have buyers remorse. I am happy to report I have had nothing but happy thoughts about the new addition to my family. Now if I could just get my wife to stop worrying about her hair and ride around with me with the top down...
Man, I am SO sorry, dude. This could be VERY bad. I think you should prepare for the worst, while you HOPE for the best. I hope you haven't ruined your engine, but that would sure be a good way to do it. If you could have just shut it down before it stopped on its own....
Please let us know how this turns out, but I'm afraid your news won't be good.
When you say it won't crank, are you saying that the starting motor won't even turne the engine over, or that it turns over but just won't start? If it's turning over but just won't start, that gives you some reason to hope, but if it is locked up and won't even turn over, then I'm afraid your engine might be done for.
Please don't put much faith in what I say. I'm one of those people who knows just enough to be dangerous, but it really sounds to me like you have a good chance of having a total loss on that engine.
When an engine is locked and won't even turn over, there's not much that I know of that could be wrong with it and still be something in the "minor" category. You probably bent/broke some piston rods or even the crankshaft. Water does not compress, and when those pistons came up on the compression stroke, something had to give.
I hope Mac will come by here and tell us what he thinks.
If you have "bought the farm" with that engine, I am truly sorry.
I'm about due for service. When rotating tires, should the spare be included in the rotation? And even if it should, is it just wishful thinking that the service guys will do so?
Diagnosis is fairly simple. Remove the spark plugs so that you can spin the engine over on the starter. As Tom said, water won't compress, so if the engine was running when you gave it a drink, bent connecting rods and possibly valves are the likely result.
Once the plugs are out, any water in the engine will be ejected through the plug holes when you spin it over. Now you can give it a compression test, or better still a cylinder leakdown test. Compression test will tell which cylinders, if any, have a problem. Leakdown will tell you where the pressure is leaking from.
Are you thinkin' that maybe the engine is locked up because there is still water in a cylinder or two? By removing the plugs from all four cylinders to provide an exit route for the water, he might free up the engine, so that it will turn over with the starting motor?
He said he found a couple plugs to be wet, but he didn't say that he tried to turn the engine over with all the plugs out, so maybe that will work. Wouldn't that be great if getting the water out turned out to be all that he needs to do!
Penske, please keep us up to date on this, as painful as that might be.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S.
Mac, let's assume the best outcome here. If he gets the water out and gets that puppy running, what should he do to be sure all the water is out of that engine. Obviously, he should change the oil, but should he change it two or three times with just a few hundred miles between changes? Is there anything else he should do?
I guess it would be smart to change the t-case and tranny fluids, right? If the water was high enough to get into his air intake, then it could have very well found its way into the tranny and t-case. Probably the differentials should have the gear oil changed too?
Hey Keats. Thanks for responding. You might be right . I am reacting to losing storage space (again) and looking for an easy way out of the hassle. You gave me a good dose of common sence. By Oct. I am sure that I will feel like putting the hardtop back on. Now looking for storage. What state do you live in (if you don't mind my asking) Thanks, John
Beautiful Memphis, TN. *elvis voice* "Thank ya, thank ya very much".
Had the top down all weekend, and I gotta tell you guys what has become one of my favorite recent accessories:
Jeep Cab cover I actually got mine on Ebay for less than $100.
My Rubicon is about two inches taller than than my garage entrance so it has to stay in the driveway. So now I don't have to put the top back up everynight.
I got the impression, maybe erroneously, that he'd just pulled a couple of plugs and found them to be wet. Immediately pulling all the plugs and spinning the engine to remove any water is SOP in that situation.
However, just because the engine can now be turned over doesn't mean that nothing is damaged. Rods or valves can be bent and the engine may still start and run, albeit poorly. Actually, a very slightly bent rod or two will allow the engine to run reasonable ok, but with a loss of power and a slight vibration that will make it feel 'lumpy'.
If it was mine and it was undamaged, I'd drain/refill the oil and change the filter, run it for two or three minutes then repeat, but allow the oil (not just the coolant) to reach operating temperature before draining the third time. Repeat one more time but wait a hundred miles or so (preferably done in one trip) before draining the cheap oil I would have been using for flushing, and then return to my usual brand. The filter would obviously have been changed each time as well.
Unless the transmission was an auto (when I'd be more critical) a simple drain and refill, then a second drain and refill after that hundred mile run should suffice for the manual transmission, t/case, and diffs. The cost of the fluids is very small compared to the possible repair costs.
You're right. He just said that he found a couple plugs to be wet. I guess I was assuming that he had done the SOP of pulling all plugs and turning th engine over to push the water out of the cylinders.
Penske, if you have NOT already done this procedure, you may be OK. Pull the plugs and turn the engine over (if it will turn over). Mac says you could still have some problems, but it would be a good sign if the engine will turn over with the plugs pulled.
Tom and Mac - Thanks for explaining 4x4 Wrangler differential/transfer case system.
Tom - Thanks for invite to Western KY to try out Turkey Bay. After I get my feet...or should I say, wheels wet with my new Unlimited, I'll be in contact since your photos make Turkey Bay look awesome and I'd appreciate learning from your wheelin' wisdom. Thanks for link to your website, too. I'll check it out tonight...can't get away with too much "browsing" here at work besides sneeking in a forum peek once in awhile like this.
Question regarding the "Buttpucker Gulch 1" photo...What is the device spread between your back roll bars? Is that a large jack or something like that?
I lived in Southern West Virginia for four years and spent alot of time in Tenn and Kentucky. Two of my favorite states. I just bought a Jeep Cab Cover and love it for leaving the top down on nice nights and then just drive off in the morning. One of the best things I have picked up for the Jeep.Will probably keep the hard top...... Thank ya very much, John
That's a Hi Lift jack. I think I have heard some people call them railroad jacks.
They can get you out of a bad spot, but they are dangerous, since the vehicle is very unstable when lifted as high as those jacks can lift one. They should not be used for changing a tire or anything like that. Whenever a bottle jack will do the job, the bottle jack should be used, not the Hi Lift.
You might need a Hi Lift to get yourself out of a high-centered situation, for one example of where they might be needed.
Another example is when I needed one to lift the body high enough (and let the axle droop) to slip a rear spring back into position after it fell out during an extreme flex while going through a gully one time at Turkey Bay.
I'm with Keats, John. Hang on to the hardtop. I love mine in these harsh CT winters. Having rear defrost and wiper is important to me. I have the older style softop, so the hardtop is quite a bit warmer / quiet.
If for some reason you do decide to sell it, I know a guy in Plainville looking for one. My email is public, just let me know.
I can't remember who asked, but I replaced my rear defrost "button / switch" pretty easily and cheaply. It sounded to me like the switch might be the problem, since you're not even getting the light to come on.
BTW- thanks to all who posted advice / instructions on the intermittent instrument cluster issue. I followed the advice and tweaked the connectors added dielectric grease a few weeks ago and haven't had the problem since.
One more thing- I lied :P I'm still getting rubbing noise at full turn with my new BFG 31's. Tom, in past posts you mention using washers to cure this. Silly question; do the washers simply go on the lugs?
Oh...Mac, sounds like you need to mount a satellite dish to the highest tree :P
".....................do the washers simply go on the lugs?"
Absolutely not...............don't even think about even thinking about it!!!!!
Here's a pic of a couple of correctly placed washers behind the steering stop. The steering stop is simply a bolt with a nut welded to it at the factory in the originally correct position. Use a wrench on the nut to remove the whole thing then place washers behind it and replace. Use trial and error to determine the minimum thickness of washers required. Credit to Leif Pihl
"Oh...Mac, sounds like you need to mount a satellite dish to the highest tree."
Almost sounds reasonable, doesn't it? The trouble is, that in order to survive, trees need to bend with the wind.
This weekend I put my top back up after having it down for a few days and have noticed the side windows seem to make more of a flapping noise. Once I got the back window re-installed it has ripples around the corners. Are there any tips or tricks I can use to cut down on the flapping and prevent the ripples around the top corners in the rear window? This is the first time I have put the windows back in since I have had my jeep.
There is an excellent article comparing FWD, RWD, and AWD on page 90 of the June Motor Trend. It explains the scrubbing concepts and geometries pretty well. Good and interesting read...
The case for 4WD - wake up on a nice May 10th in Southern California to lovely spring weather - a dusting of snow and temps in the low 30's! No problem, if it gets too slick there's always 4WD. I feel for those up where I live who have 2WD and have already taken off their winter tires.
I love going topless, but when I can't tell if it will be raining before lunchtime, it has to stay up. One of my best friends is a weatherman for the local TV station, i give him grief all the time over his forecasts, what other job can you be wrong 50% of the time and still keep getting your paycheck.
Hi Gang - I can't stand this waiting for my Unlimited...This Thursday will be two of the three weeks quoted by the dealer but who's counting? In the meantime, I'm hoping to get prepared for immediately removing the hard top...I went dual tops thinking Michigan Winters might be more practical with the hard top.
I'm wondering if anyone has advice on a storage hoist I can buy or build to hold the hard top up on the ceiling of my garage. I've got about 10 to 11 feet of height to work with above my garage floor. I do have young children so whatever winch or pulley device I use will have to be extra safe in terms of potential for falling and hurting my kids. Online, I saw an example of hoist they created using $25 worth of come-alongs and various general hardware. A friend of mine described building a homemade hoist some years ago for storing his pick-up truck cap using a hand-crank winch with safety locks in both up and down directions which sounded more safe than just the come-alongs.
I certainly don't want the thing to fall for any reason but my first concern is for the safety of my kids who might be under the thing to get their bikes in the garage. I'm leaning to buying a professionally made device for sake of my wife who might not like seeing a "homebrew" concoction hanging such weight over our children.
Anyone have opinions or experience with hard top hoists? I'd appreciate your comments. Thanks!
It sounds like your two bow isn't setting properly on the spreader bar ( I think that's what they call it). The way to check is get in front of your Jeep with the top up and back up and look at the middle bar on the soft top (two bow). Is it level all the way across or does droop on one side? If it droops then you need to take the top down or at least partly down and look at where the two bow meets the spreader bar. The two bow is supposed to sit on top of the spreader, but it is easy for it to slip behind it.
Also while the top is loose, say right after you fold it forward, try adjusting the velcro on the two bow to give it a more snug fit on the top.
Thanks keats!...ok follow-up question ...my dog jumped up on the my door and scratched (not too bad, but you can still see it) the hardtop (where it meets the door) any suggestions on how to buff them out or am i sol? Thanks again
I have not been able to drive my 05' unlimited as of late. I have a recall and was told to drive it as little as possible until the dealer has time to do the fix. They day i was supposed to drop it at the dealer my wife feel off a ladder at home. She is bruised and sore but no broken bones. She is feeling better but not up to driving, soo i have not been able to drop off the jeep and have kept it at home. One of these days i will take it to the dealer.....
It won't buff out or anything like that. You'll have to get some touch up paint from the dealership, which you'll need anyway--mark sure you let them know it's for the hard top.
Is the underlying white showing? I have a black hard top, but the top itself is white underneath the black paint.
When the paint gets scratched off, the white shows. I just use some "satin black" spray paint from a rattle can, and it looks pretty good. You have a brand new Jeep, so I doubt if you will want to start spray painting on it, though.
Why not check with a local body shop for some advice or to see what they would charge to take care of it?
Ok here is the crazy thing...i called up the dealership and told them i needed some touch up paint for the hard top and they said that they didn't have any...all they had was "regular touch up paint".....????
I have a '95 Wrangler YJ with the 2.5L and manual tranny, soft top (and not much else). Bought it new. Posted here last year and in '01. Love my YJ, but have had to store it off the road to save insurance. Now my son needs a vehicle for his summer job, so he gets my minivan and I just put my '95 YJ back on the road after almost 2 years (yeehaw).
It feels like I drove it yesterday - wonderful. Boy it was fun to feel the wind in my hair. I'm going to enjoy this summer.
I'm in a similar situation, but have a couple of weeks on you... just purchased a dual top Unlimited Rubi model and also purchased a winch-powered hoist. Make and model information is in the attached link.
Delivery takes about 10 days (to the East Coast). It's a sturdy hoist system that relies on seatbelt fabric to form the hoist... comes with 25' of eighth-inch steel cable. Your choice of electric motor, winch, or manual pulley-based lift system.
I ended-up going with the winch-based design and am happy with it. Cost: $230 delivered.
We took the new jeep out and it was amazing! I had an 1981 CJ-5, with the 4.0, but the wrangler is set up so much better. 3.73 gears and a posi make a hugh difference. We went digging Oregon Sunstones and were caught by a hugh thunderstorm. The nice dry roads quickly turned to a clay based mud. The Wrangler and the BFG Mud Terrains did not mind a bit. I was having a few doubts as to whether it was worth the $24,000, but being able to get home was priceless. Checked all the fluids and not a drop of water in anything. Hope everyone else enjoys theirs as much.
Comments
Hope everyone's having a great one!
-Mike
Don't do it. Go and rent a storage closet for 6 months. Total cost shouldn't be more that a couple of hunder bucks. Having dual tops I can tell you I would never not want my hard top, and I live in Memphis. By October I'm ready to put the hard top back on. It's like having two different cars.
But to answer your question, in your neck of the woods, for an '03 hard top, I'd say you could easily get 800 to 1000 bones.
Tomster
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
That is TOO cute.
Laura
Man, I am SO sorry, dude. This could be VERY bad. I think you should prepare for the worst, while you HOPE for the best. I hope you haven't ruined your engine, but that would sure be a good way to do it. If you could have just shut it down before it stopped on its own....
Please let us know how this turns out, but I'm afraid your news won't be good.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Mac, we need ya here, BIG TIME!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Please don't put much faith in what I say. I'm one of those people who knows just enough to be dangerous, but it really sounds to me like you have a good chance of having a total loss on that engine.
When an engine is locked and won't even turn over, there's not much that I know of that could be wrong with it and still be something in the "minor" category. You probably bent/broke some piston rods or even the crankshaft. Water does not compress, and when those pistons came up on the compression stroke, something had to give.
I hope Mac will come by here and tell us what he thinks.
If you have "bought the farm" with that engine, I am truly sorry.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
-Mike
-Mike
Once the plugs are out, any water in the engine will be ejected through the plug holes when you spin it over. Now you can give it a compression test, or better still a cylinder leakdown test. Compression test will tell which cylinders, if any, have a problem. Leakdown will tell you where the pressure is leaking from.
Good luck!
He said he found a couple plugs to be wet, but he didn't say that he tried to turn the engine over with all the plugs out, so maybe that will work. Wouldn't that be great if getting the water out turned out to be all that he needs to do!
Penske, please keep us up to date on this, as painful as that might be.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S.
Mac, let's assume the best outcome here. If he gets the water out and gets that puppy running, what should he do to be sure all the water is out of that engine. Obviously, he should change the oil, but should he change it two or three times with just a few hundred miles between changes? Is there anything else he should do?
I guess it would be smart to change the t-case and tranny fluids, right? If the water was high enough to get into his air intake, then it could have very well found its way into the tranny and t-case. Probably the differentials should have the gear oil changed too?
Beautiful Memphis, TN. *elvis voice* "Thank ya, thank ya very much".
Had the top down all weekend, and I gotta tell you guys what has become one of my favorite recent accessories:
Jeep Cab cover I actually got mine on Ebay for less than $100.
My Rubicon is about two inches taller than than my garage entrance so it has to stay in the driveway. So now I don't have to put the top back up everynight.
However, just because the engine can now be turned over doesn't mean that nothing is damaged. Rods or valves can be bent and the engine may still start and run, albeit poorly. Actually, a very slightly bent rod or two will allow the engine to run reasonable ok, but with a loss of power and a slight vibration that will make it feel 'lumpy'.
If it was mine and it was undamaged, I'd drain/refill the oil and change the filter, run it for two or three minutes then repeat, but allow the oil (not just the coolant) to reach operating temperature before draining the third time. Repeat one more time but wait a hundred miles or so (preferably done in one trip) before draining the cheap oil I would have been using for flushing, and then return to my usual brand. The filter would obviously have been changed each time as well.
Unless the transmission was an auto (when I'd be more critical) a simple drain and refill, then a second drain and refill after that hundred mile run should suffice for the manual transmission, t/case, and diffs. The cost of the fluids is very small compared to the possible repair costs.
You're right. He just said that he found a couple plugs to be wet. I guess I was assuming that he had done the SOP of pulling all plugs and turning th engine over to push the water out of the cylinders.
Penske, if you have NOT already done this procedure, you may be OK. Pull the plugs and turn the engine over (if it will turn over). Mac says you could still have some problems, but it would be a good sign if the engine will turn over with the plugs pulled.
Tomster
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Tom - Thanks for invite to Western KY to try out Turkey Bay. After I get my feet...or should I say, wheels wet with my new Unlimited, I'll be in contact since your photos make Turkey Bay look awesome and I'd appreciate learning from your wheelin' wisdom. Thanks for link to your website, too. I'll check it out tonight...can't get away with too much "browsing" here at work besides sneeking in a forum peek once in awhile like this.
Question regarding the "Buttpucker Gulch 1" photo...What is the device spread between your back roll bars? Is that a large jack or something like that?
That's a Hi Lift jack. I think I have heard some people call them railroad jacks.
They can get you out of a bad spot, but they are dangerous, since the vehicle is very unstable when lifted as high as those jacks can lift one. They should not be used for changing a tire or anything like that. Whenever a bottle jack will do the job, the bottle jack should be used, not the Hi Lift.
You might need a Hi Lift to get yourself out of a high-centered situation, for one example of where they might be needed.
Another example is when I needed one to lift the body high enough (and let the axle droop) to slip a rear spring back into position after it fell out during an extreme flex while going through a gully one time at Turkey Bay.
Tomster
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I love mine in these harsh CT winters.
Having rear defrost and wiper is important to me. I have the older style softop, so the hardtop is quite a bit warmer / quiet.
If for some reason you do decide to sell it, I know a guy in Plainville looking for one. My email is public, just let me know.
I can't remember who asked, but I replaced my rear defrost "button / switch" pretty easily and cheaply. It sounded to me like the switch might be the problem, since you're not even getting the light to come on.
BTW- thanks to all who posted advice / instructions on the intermittent instrument cluster issue. I followed the advice and tweaked the connectors added dielectric grease a few weeks ago and haven't had the problem since.
One more thing- I lied :P I'm still getting rubbing noise at full turn with my new BFG 31's. Tom, in past posts you mention using washers to cure this. Silly question; do the washers simply go on the lugs?
Oh...Mac, sounds like you need to mount a satellite dish to the highest tree :P
-Dan
Absolutely not...............don't even think about even thinking about it!!!!!
Here's a pic of a couple of correctly placed washers behind the steering stop. The steering stop is simply a bolt with a nut welded to it at the factory in the originally correct position. Use a wrench on the nut to remove the whole thing then place washers behind it and replace. Use trial and error to determine the minimum thickness of washers required.
Credit to Leif Pihl
"Oh...Mac, sounds like you need to mount a satellite dish to the highest tree."
Almost sounds reasonable, doesn't it? The trouble is, that in order to survive, trees need to bend with the wind.
Thanksl
tidester, host
-Paul
I love going topless, but when I can't tell if it will be raining before lunchtime, it has to stay up. One of my best friends is a weatherman for the local TV station, i give him grief all the time over his forecasts, what other job can you be wrong 50% of the time and still keep getting your paycheck.
I'm wondering if anyone has advice on a storage hoist I can buy or build to hold the hard top up on the ceiling of my garage. I've got about 10 to 11 feet of height to work with above my garage floor. I do have young children so whatever winch or pulley device I use will have to be extra safe in terms of potential for falling and hurting my kids. Online, I saw an example of hoist they created using $25 worth of come-alongs and various general hardware. A friend of mine described building a homemade hoist some years ago for storing his pick-up truck cap using a hand-crank winch with safety locks in both up and down directions which sounded more safe than just the come-alongs.
I certainly don't want the thing to fall for any reason but my first concern is for the safety of my kids who might be under the thing to get their bikes in the garage. I'm leaning to buying a professionally made device for sake of my wife who might not like seeing a "homebrew" concoction hanging such weight over our children.
Anyone have opinions or experience with hard top hoists? I'd appreciate your comments. Thanks!
It sounds like your two bow isn't setting properly on the spreader bar ( I think that's what they call it). The way to check is get in front of your Jeep with the top up and back up and look at the middle bar on the soft top (two bow). Is it level all the way across or does droop on one side? If it droops then you need to take the top down or at least partly down and look at where the two bow meets the spreader bar. The two bow is supposed to sit on top of the spreader, but it is easy for it to slip behind it.
Also while the top is loose, say right after you fold it forward, try adjusting the velcro on the two bow to give it a more snug fit on the top.
I just purchased my first wrangler - YAY for me!!! I was wondering if you can wax the Hard Top? Thanks in advance
Jeff
It won't buff out or anything like that. You'll have to get some touch up paint from the dealership, which you'll need anyway--mark sure you let them know it's for the hard top.
Is the underlying white showing? I have a black hard top, but the top itself is white underneath the black paint.
When the paint gets scratched off, the white shows. I just use some "satin black" spray paint from a rattle can, and it looks pretty good. You have a brand new Jeep, so I doubt if you will want to start spray painting on it, though.
Why not check with a local body shop for some advice or to see what they would charge to take care of it?
Congrats on that Jeep!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Touch Up Paint including Hard Top Colors
Just enter your year and make.
It feels like I drove it yesterday - wonderful. Boy it was fun to feel the wind in my hair. I'm going to enjoy this summer.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
http://removabletops.com/index.php?category=16
Delivery takes about 10 days (to the East Coast). It's a sturdy hoist system that relies on seatbelt fabric to form the hoist... comes with 25' of eighth-inch steel cable. Your choice of electric motor, winch, or manual pulley-based lift system.
I ended-up going with the winch-based design and am happy with it. Cost: $230 delivered.
I had an 1981 CJ-5, with the 4.0, but the wrangler is set up so much better.
3.73 gears and a posi make a hugh difference.
We went digging Oregon Sunstones and were caught by a hugh thunderstorm.
The nice dry roads quickly turned to a clay based mud. The Wrangler and the BFG Mud Terrains did not mind a bit. I was having a few doubts as to whether it was worth the $24,000, but being able to get home was priceless.
Checked all the fluids and not a drop of water in anything.
Hope everyone else enjoys theirs as much.
Ken