By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/12/business/la-fi-mo-better-business-bureau- -expels-los-angeles-chapter-largest-in-nation-20130312
It could be that ‘houdini1’ was throwing it back at you like you do when a question is posed to you. Don’t like it huh?
BTW, I have to get back to you on a post or two where you were replying to me. Not going to slam you on those. Just want to clarify some things, but damn, when I try to discuss something with you, you’ll do your best to take it to the argumentative level.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Laughed actually, I figured he didn't understand the contradiction.
BTW, I have to get back to you on a post or two where you were replying to me. Not going to slam you on those. Just want to clarify some things, but damn, when I try to discuss something with you, you’ll do your best to take it to the argumentative level
I talk the way I write and vice-versa. I'm all for disscussions. You may not have realized it but I'm close enough to you that you can visit anytime.
Doing something that is "free" is not necessarily problematic. It really depends. We wanted those automatic water drainers put on our outdoor fawcetts so you don't have to drain the lines and turn off the valves if we are away in the winter...and back on in the Spring.
Plumber came, said he could do it but he would advise us not too. He said it is easier to just turn them on and off twice a year. If he adds the unit that stops the flow then it will cost a lot more because they tend to break and need repairs.
I said, well I guess you just lost yourself a job. He said, that's OK, I was happy to help. He has done other work for us that others would have charged more for.
A good honest plumber and a good honest mechanic are a real find.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
A lot of BBBs were found "selling" their ratings scores. I don't know when BBB became a money making business, but they have lost their credibility. Better to go on some online sites where people give their opinion and rate businesses.
Like Cardoc said, there will always be unhappy consumers for any business. I look for a pattern, if a lot of people focus on something really bad then it usually is. If most are good reviews with a few yahoos spouting off, then go with the flow.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
lol is right. Apparently they have better food than Wolfgang Puck!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
C’mon ‘doc’ you gotta give me a little credit for knowing the difference between grease and powder. It was definitely POWDER.
As for GM using grease, I won’t argue with that but because there was a lot of POWDER around the ABS relay pins, and I like to think that I am pretty through when I do things, I pulled every relay in that box to check them. I’d say at least 6, but don’t hold me to that number because it was more than 10 years ago, and none of the other relays had the powder problem. I even pulled a few fuses and there was no powder on them either.
Pulling and re-installing relays without first volt drop testing and pinpointing the connection as the confirmed cause usually just results in the problem going into hiding for a while.
OK, maybe I cheated a little bit here but because it was POWDER I figured I had the problem nailed dead on and I was right. I’m happy to say the problem never returned.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Let me know when we get to the disscussion part.
You may not have realized it but I'm close enough to you that you can visit anytime.
Now you have me laughing. Who says I’d want to?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That sounds a lot like what I said in post 2915.
I agree, he’s gotta get out of that profession.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'd like to hear some discussion about the service writers that prey of folks that don't know any better and charge them for service packs they don't need. Routine fuel injector cleaning is one rip-off. The local Toyota dealer recommends them every time you get an oil change at $160 a pop. They recommend it even if your car is running fine. I know better but I'll bet there are plenty who fall for these crooks. They are smooth and concerned about taking care of you and your car. It's not the few dishonest mechanics that need sting overseeing but the dealers and franchise repair shops that could use a little light shown on a ripoff scheme that is perfectly legal. Nitrogen in your tires anyone ?
Are you trying to tell me all I got for my $86.50 was green valve caps. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I bought some gasket sealer and I'm hoping it's something that I can fix on my own.
Although the dealer said it was $900 to fix, that would probably fix it, and so I see Doc's perspective on it.
My own view is it doesn't have to be the best possible fix, just a fix.
"I saw an elderly man who had brought his daughter's car in for an oil change. After about 5 minutes, the service rep came to the waiting room and told the man since the car only had 1,000 miles since the last oil change, it did not need one".
No mention of how many years it'd been since the last one.
It's a grey area, jm. I'm fairy confident he is good. Good, should never be taken for granted. The problem though is that I do wonder the mental toll it takes on doc. He is an obvious teacher. He spends time (a fair bit after hours) absorbing new knowledge in his field, then..aside from carving out a living to pay for all the newer tech tools and keep the missus happy with the odd nicety/repair/retro around the house, he supplements what little deliberately freed up time for probably relatively few connect-the-dots dollars to travel and teach. IMO, doc, should teach fulltime..probably to save his mental (and physical) health. I'm having a deja vu here...pretty sure I said something similar a couple months ago.
Doc can be an almost irritating sort of personality, a bit on the defensive side at the drop of a hat...but that said.. I like him. I've seen how his brain works on certain problems and limme tell ya....he's the one I would want on my side given situations he excels in.
I think we are probably holding a full house on that accelerator pedal position sensor. Is it worth gambling $270 on? Probably not. Though, at only $60 in labor, it's probably an easy fix, if no special tools are required.
Ya think? That's low for priest, clergy...and even our Edmunds hosts.
The way the auto sale and repair industry is set up lends itself to dishonest practices. Even cardiac has said so. The pressure is on to sell, sell, sell. Don't sell or produce, you're out of a job. Like any other sales position? Probably not.
I didn't look around much, figuring - yep - sleep engineering would make whatever happened go away. :shades:
Ya think? That's low for priest, clergy...and even our Edmunds hosts.
lol...I agree that probably more than 1% of priests are dishonest, but I am sure our Edmunds hosts are 100% on the straight and narrow.
This article is fun to read. In 1987 people from Readers Digest magazine took a new Olds to various dealers to fix a problem the magazine people created.
Here's a bit of what happened;
In May 1987 Reader's Digest (where I am an editor) ran an article titled "Highway Robbery: The Scandal of Auto Repair in America." Maybe you heard about it.
As the title suggests, it catalogued the myriad devious ways 225 mechanics in 20 cities from Boston to L.A. to Orlando tried to foist unneeded repairs on our author and his car-expert copilot. The car was a low-mileage Olds in tiptop condition which would "present" at the garage with a disconnected spark-plug wire, the drivers complaining of a rough ride.
Bogus diagnoses--bent coil springs, fuel filters, distributor caps,etc., etc.- A mechanic in San Antonio test-drove the Olds up a hill while simultaneously stepping on the gas and brake pedals to prove the transmission was shot. In all, 56 percent of mechanics proved dishonest. Very entertaining, especially since all 10,000 miles were expense-accounted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------
They did the test more recently with a 95 Taurus (wish they had dates on web articles). They found there was no fraud at the garages, just incompetence....the car was correctly diagnosed and repaired just 35% of the time.
There was some funny diagnosing going on, such as this;
There were some choice moments, including the following: "...In Tuba City, Ariz., at a large repair garage, the mechanic stood 15 feet from my car, which was parked with its hood closed. By somemiraculous telepathy, he determined that the [brand-new] fuel filter was bad.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------
Full article:
Are mechanics becoming more honest
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yep I remember that article. I always figured the TV station was trying to repeat that "test".
There were some choice moments, including the following: "...In Tuba City, Ariz., at a large repair garage, the mechanic stood 15 feet from my car, which was parked with its hood closed. By somemiraculous telepathy, he determined that the [brand-new] fuel filter was bad.
You know the internet is full of people who seek just such clairvoyance and others who think they (and the internet) can actually deliver it. How many times do you think a fuel filter is mentioned as a possible remedy for some vehicle complaint in that forum?
Is that "sleep engineering" a field in which universities offer a degree? Masters? PhD?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This was Readers Digest not the TV station. Do you think they all work together using devious tactics to uncover garages. I'd like to see them hire you to conduct the tests......now that would be interesting.
You know the internet is full of people who seek just such clairvoyance and others who think they (and the internet) can actually deliver it.
Does Edmunds have a site where you can have your car diagnosed by a clairavoyant? Actually, that's a good idea, could save people a lot of money.
Hmmmm....Witch Doctor Auto Diagnostic Centers.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Readers digest story circa 1987,,, WPXI Pittsburgh when they tried to repeat the Readers Digest story March 1990.
It might be interesting to see what would happen if I was involved, but I can predict some of the outcome that nobody is expecting as IMO history would simply repeat itself. You know the law in physics, "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." If you could look into Jiffy Lube right now you would find the reaction to them getting caught in that sting just a couple months ago. In some corners the overselling likely hasn't changed one bit, however in others with the techs being so concerned about potentially being seen as dishonest are likely underselling and not doing all of things that they should be. That' of course is the reaction that nobody has accounted for and its wrong too.
BTW its really sad that when I share real insight as to what occurs like that it gets twisted into only trying to make excuses for others. I'm not. Maybe it would help if I had an editor who worked with me to try and make sure the message comes through exactly as it is intended, but I don't so we will just have to march forward and the ignore those who just don't get it.
Does Edmunds have a site where you can have your car diagnosed by a clairavoyant? Actually, that's a good idea, could save people a lot of money.
Hmmmm....Witch Doctor Auto Diagnostic Centers.
What do you think really happens with the internet guesses? There isn't enough experience at play to make use of a lot of the pattern failures let alone anything that doesn't fall into that group. As I said, I wonder how often a fuel filter is guessed and then subsequently tried by someone in that very forum?
I played around and "answered" a few questions there. There were a few that I could easily be very confident about exactly what was wrong and said so. However the vast majority only came down to telling someone how to test and prove what was wrong which is the best anyone can actually do.
I can easily explain what was probably going through those techs minds when they encountered that Oldsmobile back in '87 that Readers Digest was running around with. I know exactly what the guy who tried to drive it with two feet thought he was feeling. But what good does it do to even try and put it into words when it makes better sport to simply condem him? Did he get it wrong? Absolutely. The bigger problem is did he learn that he got it wrong and how to prevent the same mistake from occuring again? No he did not. He got the test first, and never got the lesson that it should have given him. Given that criteria how many people do you think would fail similar tests in whatever they do for a living?
Before 1987, very few cars had distrbutor-less ignition systems. That Oldsmobile did, and that meant it could not be hooked up to the old style ignition scope that most shops still had and relied on. That's a step that I was still able to use on the TV stations Caprice and helped lead to the answer that time. With that Olds, suddenly routines that everyone took for granted simply didn't work anymore and the techs usually had nothing but their experience to try and fly by, while they were in a sense flying blind.
This was also just about the time that trying to test plug wires by using an ohm meter became popular, which in itself lead to many subsequent plug wire failures, (they weren't bad before we touched them which we had to do to test them) and consistant misdiagnosis of the problem on top of that. I'll touch on that at another time.
Lets look at that Olds for a bit.
Imagine your first step being a visual inspection and after 100 times trying to diagnose and repair a given problem, the visual inspection almost never resulted in the final answer. What would that train you to do especially when you didn't get paid to spend any time doing diagnostics? Anyone who thinks or says that at first they would do much more than simply shoot from the hip isn't being honest. However it wouldn't (didn't) take long for shooting from the hip to bite them in the [non-permissible content removed] and another lesson in auto repair took place.
(You actually see that hinted at by the number of shops that simply started turning certain repairs away and directing them to take the car back to the dealer when they tried their test again with the Escort that they were unplugging the MAF sensor on. )
The olds being rigged by pulling the plug wire off falls into what turns out to be a very abnormal condition. The wires on that car took a rediculous amount of effort to get off, and in fact they held on so tight that they usually didn't survive the effort of removing them. With no "reward" for the visual inspection, and no reasonble expectation for a wire to be off in the first place, and then combine the fact that the shop equipment was outdated for that system, you have the perfect conditions to outclass the techs experience and training at that time. Why should anyone be surprised that a good number of the techs failed? I wasn't, because I was dealing with learning these changes as they occurred and as a young technician who had been in the field just about ten years at that time I was making my fair share of mistakes just like everyone else.
That's enough for now but there is one more thing to realize. This in part lead to the wave of businesses following the "guru's" of the time who were preaching selling services instead of fixing cars because the shops couldn't make money fixing broken cars. That of course has evolved into the wallet flushing that Jiffy Lube got burned on recently, and also the dealers that NBC caught who then tried to throw all of the blame on the techs and the service writers.
Not sure why you mention this in this way. Surely you are not trying to defend that guy too are you? Cuz that sure is what you indicate. You are telling us that he was feeling a certain something...something the lowly public (us readers here) could never understand... :confuse:
I think the problem you had when "trying to put it into words" is that no way no how are you going to be able to make that guy look honest! He was trying to tell the customer the problem with the car was the tranny slipping going up the hill, and he was doing so by having his feet on the brake and accelerator at the SAME TIME! Now that's not funny doc..I guess I spoke too soon.. :sick:
I think you must type stuff just to see if we're paying attention... :lemon:
And FWIW, twice now you have used the visual excuse re the plug wire being off (two dif cases of course..this Reader's Digest case and the previous one). To that I say, even a mechanic that might not be that competent, might spot the problem by visually being observant with enough symmetry. Basically, plug wires look centered coming out of their holes. If a guy is looking more than just a skim, he's going to be able to tell if one is jammed beside the plug. It just isn't going to look right.
IMO though, as a media attempt to test garage shop honesty, pulling a plug wire is pretty weak..so they too are losers right outta the gate.
"Does Edmunds have a site where you can have your car diagnosed by a clairavoyant? "
Actually I'd be happy to do that for you. In order to "channel" your car, I'll need you to turn the key to "ON" for 30 seconds. :P
That's your assumption, that the transmission was slipping, or felt like it was slipping and you are dead wrong. The symptom that feels exactly like a misfire is known as TCC (Torque Convetor Clutch) chuggle or busy-ness. By stepping on the brake pedal, the TCC feed circuit is opened with the same switch that turns on the brake lights and that takes that clutch out of operation. (The brake light switch circuit closes, while the TCC circuit goes open inside the switch) With the pedal released, the misfire, just like any TCC engagement/disengagement is very pronounced. Stepping on the pedal while holding the throttle steady manually disengages the TCC and the symptom goes away. Back in 87-93 it was a nightmare to try and tell when a symptom was a TCC chuggle and when one was a nightmare, in some cases it still is very difficult to make that diagnosis accurately.
So that's what you for trying to jump all over that for me, you just helped me make my point. The readers digest people in the end actually failed their own test because they started out with a given expectation and set a test that they thought would bring specific results. In reality the results weren't as cut and dried so they tried to make the results fit the story that they wanted to tell. Here we are some 25 years later and you just made the same mistake that the author did about the tech driving with two feet. So now, the author, the tech and you all got it wrong. That's what these "tests" actually accomplish, nothing more, nothing less.
If you think I'm trying to defend the tech, read it again. I'm not. But I won't sit by and allow the mistakes made by the RD people either. I'm not sure if it's funny or simply sad that they didn't realize they were ultimately going to fail their own test. That BTW is what NBC and Mr. Reed did as well.
Drop the word "excuse", unless you need one.
When is the last time you tried to look at the plug wires on the rear bank of a GM FWD 2.8l? We would take the motor mounts loose and roll the engine forward with a come-along to work on the rear bank. Coming in off of the road, the exhaust manifold and cylinder head temperatures were blazing hot, so you wouldn't stick your hand back there a second time.
You wouldn't be arguing for them had you of actually been someone who had to take their "test" in fact, just about everyone here would have felt that you were deceived by them. Remember, they had to lie to even present their "broken car", and you are gravely mistaken if you think you would have been likely to identify the problem efficiently.
Plus I notice you didn't rebut the first part of my post about the "tech" driving with both feet at the same time up a hill? That one is a bit tougher to defend I suppose? I was a lot more curious what you could possibly come up with there?
I didn't? See post 3015 about the TCC chuggle.
I thought the two cars in question were a Caprice and an Olds? This is what posters mean when they accuse you of side stepping when it suits you with the GM FWD 2.8l example
Yea must be my mistake. I though GM owned Oldsmobile.......
BTW I'm the last person who needs to be talked about for side-stepping. You should line up a whole bunch of people in front of me. I even had you try and make excuses for Steve.
But again, here is the quote:
A mechanic in San Antonio test-drove the Olds up a hill while simultaneously stepping on the gas and brake pedals to prove the transmission was shot.
And while I suspected you probably might have had some sort of technical reason, as I point out in my subject line, why use the hill? It has no bearing on the diagnosis you said what was going on.
Yea must be my mistake. I though GM owned Oldsmobile.......
Sidestepping again...just cuz a company owns a model doesn't mean all vehicles under that same name have the same symptoms when an issue arises. You do see how ridiculous that rebuttal is right?
Anyway I'm not going to go back and forth with you because you pick and choose crap outta context at will. And if I "made an excuse for Steve" just what was it? Maybe I felt justified, refresh my memory..maybe it was something I could relate to on a personal level, that is usually when I defend. But then..sometimes I have been found in the past to defend when the person was later found to be undeserving..so ya I make mistakes sometimes. I'm not perfect. I'm not a garage mechanic.. ok, ya that was a shot..
edit - I don't care what your reason was for leaving out the significance of the hill.
Ya know.. sometimes you show how capable you are, then there are other times you try to sell us stuff like oil caps coming off over potholes..is it any wonder you are questioned from time to time? it is almost like we aren't always dealing with the same person each time posing as 'doc'.
Good point; I've thought the same thing...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Why use the hill? Easy. Go back to my explanation of a hard VS vacant misfire. The greater the compression, the harsher it would be. The hill would have the operator open the throttle just a little more, which reduces manifold vacuum and that means there is more air to be drawn into the cylinders. A cylinder that misfires under that engine load has a much harsher feel to it than one that is misfiring because it lost compression. With the TCC engaged, that harshness is magnified even more. By stepping on the pedal "slightly" and turning the TCC off the symptom almost disappears. The result is the tech is tricked into a misdiagnosis when his senses fail him.
And if I "made and excuse for Steve" just what was it?
Remember the blind mechanic?
But then I have been found in the past to defend when the person was later found to be undeserving..so ya I make mistakes some times. I'm not perfect. I'm not a garage mechanic.. ok, ya that was a shot..I'm human...
You know the criticisms go from one extreme to the other to as people always try and put this lowly mechanic in his place. After all if he was really as smart as he thinks he is, he would be doing something else for a living.
I appreciate the times you have tried to smooth things, don't ever think that its gone un-noticed. Do remember where we are at though. As a mechanic we have only ever been as good as the last time we failed. What you see is that world at play in here and its nothing personal with anyone, not even with RB. Even when we don't make a mistake, we quite often discover someone trying to twist our efforts into being one. Imagine never getting to be right no matter what you do and how hard you try and you will see the world that I have lived in the last 36+ years.
"Anyone know why a code reader would shut off after being plugged into a 2002 ford windstar van? Tried two different ones and both shut off before providing any codes."
The questioner states that the scanners go through self-test and then shut down prior to displaying any codes.
I can't figure this one, since the van is a 2002, so it's not a question of him using an obsolete OBD II scanner on a 2005+ car.
Ideas??
At first I was going to say that the hill isn't needed in order to get the throttle opening farther to reduce manifold vacuum, the brakes can easily do that on level ground. What I did assume RDigest/the mechanic, was up to was that the hill, was something the customer could relate to being behind tranny issues...not even necessarily slipping..but just issues..
So now there is the slight brake application thing...don't get it, but then I do admit my limitations here, and is why I have asked you questions.
FWIW, I do not agree with the statement that you continue to make "As a mechanic we have only ever been as good as the last time we failed. " I know you're saying it, but I don't believe very many people could claim that with a straight face...even less than the 1% figure you were using before in a dif context. The reason is simple...trades, and professional people make mistakes all the time! People KNOW this! Not sure why you try to single out mechanics as being more prone than the rest. Perhaps it is because sometimes they DO get caught not being honest. That latest JL video, wasn't rigged and it was proven by revealing the live tape of the idiot while on his cell phone to his boss about getting "caught" It was his own, incriminating and REVEALING words.
And let's face it. People are basically a lot more PASSIONATE about vehicles than leaky pipes, or electrical woes etc when chatting at the dinner table or at a camp side bonfire. And passionate doesn't necessarily indicate a positive connotation. People can been passionately excited, pleased, happy, enthusiastic etc etc etc but they can also be passionately p -arff and what better topic to share to than a good ol' fashioned car repair/sales story?
edit - ok, I think I figured this out...the brakes were used not to trigger a trans issue to show a TCC issue, but rather simply to trigger the brake light circuit which in turn lets the rest of the test be accomplished. And the hill was needed to create greater compression and lower manifold vacuum, in order to better show the stumble?
Nonetheless though, one of the diagnosis was "bent coil springs". So RD needed a slap to use better examples than ones they thought would sensationalize the best.
The code pullers are demonstrating the circuit failure in a repeatable fashion, its up to the technician to measure the circuits while the problem is occurring to locate the failure. One of the things about Ford's self test is they energize all of the outputs and try and confirm that they turned on and off. The exact timing of the tool shutting down may be consistent with the current draw from a specific component being operated. Keep in mind that current draw could cause a voltage drop on the power or the ground side of the circuit.
That's the start for that one, the questions that have to be asked amount to, "Is the system losing power during the self test", and the answer by testing is????
etc...etc...
Touch the pedal just enough to open the TCC circuit. You will feel the TCC disengage and it will re-engage when you let off the pedal. If you pay attention to it, it feels just like the engine slightly misfired when it changes.
So now there is the slight brake application thing...don't get it, but then I do admit my limitations here, and is why I have asked you questions.
RD's writer didn't get it either and so wrote from his level of comprehension. As I said, he never figured he would fail his own test.
FWIW, I do not agree with the statement that you continue to make "As a mechanic we have only ever been as good as the last time we failed. " I know you're saying it, but I don't believe very many people could claim that with a straight face...even less than the 1% figure you were using before in a dif context. The reason is simple...trades, and professional people make mistakes all the time
I only concern myself with this trade, and some think that's too much and I should only deal with myself. Sure people make mistakes all the time the cost of a simple error isn't the same in every case. Plus most people when they make a mistake aren't immeadiately labeled idiots, morons, ham handed or thieves, but we are. And then it matters not what level of success we may have ever briefly enjoyed, the only thing that matters is that we failed. ( edit : or someone thinks that we failed) Mistakes happen, its how one deals with them that truly defines a person. I'll show you that those stings don't let that aspect come full circle. They are usually only about criminalizing and hurting whoever they trap, otherwise they wouldn't be called stings would they?
Do you see the word passionate as fitting into describing my approach to cars and trying to repair them?
OK, I have assumed the position....what do you think?
You are funny today M_S!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
One can make the argument the owner doesn't trust the mechanic, but if that's the case, why go to that particular mechanic?
I see this behavior time and time again...
One example really stands out... Lubricants.
Thanks, what's the address I should send my check to?
RFLMAO
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Gimme, you are doing a great job, hang in there buddy. BTW.....the "bent coil spring" diagnosis never got an excuse, would like to hear that one.
Cardoc, You have done an admiral job of explaining your profession and I do understand how frustrating it must be to be labelled as dishonest or incompetent. I thought a mechanics job was pretty cut and dried...there is a problem......find out the cause......repair it. It seems there are a lot of unknowns.
I have come a long way to seeing your side of the story, but, you could be losing some credibility with that 1% honesty figure and with letting some of those diagnoisis (?) go...such as the "coil spring" remark.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Just like real mechanics, except that a bent coil spring won't be on the flow chart under a misfire, but their triage may indicate that you need to check for loose spark plug wires.
Whether the car has them or not.......
I can still pick this apart when it comes to precision, but as a general essay it's close enough. The article correctly reports that a code puller does not equal a full scan tool. They stress the importance of having a shop and tech that you trust for things you choose not handle. Plus while the examples are not technically correct about a P0135, they make it clear that the code in itself does not mean what part needs to be replaced. It could be the O2 sensor when that code sets, but it doesn't have to be and proper testing needs to be done in order to find out.
They still need to get away from referring to CarMD for advice, (and AAA for that matter). Using CarMD makes the story look like an extension of one of their commercials. They also need to stop trying to quote prices. For qualities sake top shops have learned to use only the O.E. O2 sensors. The aftermarkets simply don't hold up and match the performance of the originals. That means the sensor price was probably low, while for my part of the country the labor price was way out of line as we would be about half of that. If my experience holds true for them, and they didn't use an O.E. sensor they will be revisiting that code (or at least that sensor) in a relatively short amount of time.
I'm going to give this one a B-
No other facets of the story got any excuses either, why would you want one for something like that? Myself and just about every tech I know would love to deal with the theives in an efficient and permanent manner. They make our lives harder than they already are. Why would you even think otherwise?
I have come a long way to seeing your side of the story, but, you could be losing some credibility with that 1% honesty figure
And of course isn't that the inherrent problem with actually answering that question instead of dodging it? Of the people that I meet in my travels, I believe that less than 1% of them try to take advantage of someone. Keep in mind I really only meet the cream of the crop. You see its easy to get the ones that are already good to get ot to training. They recogognize the value in it for them and their customers. Its the ones who don't go to training that cause most of the problems for the consumers and the trade alike. Funny how they are also the ones who typically low-ball prices and use other similar tactics(free inspections) to get customers in their doors too.
this is very dangerous. :shades: