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2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The M3 SMG is a keeper, I'll drive the X5 until the wheels fall off (like my old Range Rover with 170k miles)the X is a fantastic vehicle.
I REALLY like my 2002 GTI 1.8t, I put a little over $1k in engine/ suspension upgrades. It's got 225HP and an extremely nice suspension under it now. It will be interesting to see how the Mini S compares.
I still want one - I just have to make more friends with people who own larger cars.
I guess something of a concern should be if you had people in the backseat and that back window is close enough that their heads whip back THROUGH that window. OK, I could see that as a problem. Side impact airbags keep that from happening in a side impact.
SMchale - was it SO small that what I suggested could happen to the rear occupants?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Just curious to see how the market in the US is reacting to new Mini; in so far as whether the sales of them can be traced to Mini enthusiasts or just enthusiasts.
--rich
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I will report back how it drives I can tell you from going through the S at in person last week, that the fit and finish is much better than I expected.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I really like the option customization, though. I still hear that you won't be able to order exactly what you want for the first several months of production. It'll be an interesting introduction.
Yeah, I can wait a couple of years for one and then get the price I want. Plus my current lease will be up in August 2005 so I am thinking around 2004 to purchase a Mini.
Only problem is, with me in the front seat (I'm 6'1) equals 0 back seat room. My seat was touching the back seat. No bueno!
But sign me up for a Cooper S with Dark Silver, white top, sunroof every other option!
I'm hoping BMW will eventually bring over a proper compact to the States, something like the old 2002.
First - there will not be any sort of mark up of the new ‘02 at any authorized BMW dealerships. None. Possibly at second-hand lots there may be mark-up, but BMW has a strict policy of marking up the MSRP on any of their cars. I do not work for them, but let’s say that it is “in the family.”
I am sure they (any of the authorized BMW dealerships) will rigg out many of the new Minis with expensive options - but why not? They can sell more and make more – but they do not mark-up the price.
All are taking deposits – from $500 to $1000 for the std. Cooper or S. This money, according to the web site, is 100% refundable should you opt out at any time – regardless if you spec’d out a Mini for order (may vary from dealer to dealer). I hear of one case where one dealer had some issues with ordering a Mini with a power sunroof and deposit reimbursement. Check your dealer to be sure.
The MSRP for the standard Cooper and S does include destination charges - all you pay is TT&T beyond that (with options of course). Also, not all BMW dealers are authorized Mini dealers – you need to check for your own area.
If you want to see more about pricing and dealer lists and what other people are reporting, try these links:
www.mini2.com
www.miniusa.com (official site)
www.minimania.com
Just trying to set some facts straight.
-PJB
Actually, I think it is illegal for BMW to tell the dealer what to charge. There is something particular in the Saturn franchise agreement I think, but a BMW dealer is an independant business.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
To some extent you can't fault BMW dealers, but I believe that what comes around goes around. Give BMW a couple of quarters without setting sales records and watch them squirm.
If you like BMW's an excellent way to get your first one is to buy a certified used BMW for several grand less than new, it comes with a 100k warranty built in. This is an excellent way to get started owning your first BMW. I've got to admit if I was looking at a Mini as my first BMW, I'd spend that $20K+ on a nice used two or three year old 3 series - way more car than the Mini.
Personally, I would rather have a couple year old M coupe for the same money as the Cooper S. The car still intrigues me though. I will be in London next week and plan on at least test driving one...will report back as I mentioned earlier in the post.
buyers of this untested car might seriously backfire if anything should go wrong with these cars. Honda has a good reputation among youthful
buyers and has two highly competetive products launched (Acura RSX-S) and about to Launch (the new Civic Si). VW is powering up the new beetle to appeal to performance-oriented buyers. The old mini is a relatively rare entity in the USA
with no track record at all except as a collector car. I would bet not many people will tolerate big markups in this economy. VW had a good headwind economically for its new Beetle launch, BMW will not.
1) I admire your car dealing prowess (no joke).
2) What class do you autox in and what mods have you done?
When sitting in the Mini I was thinking, "the Miata has already won over many of the buyers of this car."
I guess we'll see how the thing holds up & how it sells a month or two after launch. I'm a bit skeptical. It's light, low on practicality, and by no means cheap. I'm sure they'll sell a bunch of copies in the first few months, but I'm not sure whether demand will continue to be strong in a nation in love with four-door sedans, flatbed pickup trucks and SUVs. Pricing will be key. $18k or $20k might sound cheap, but it really isn't when you start thinking about how little you have to pay for a sporty, fun to drive Ford Focus.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
How will the Mini handle inclement weather? Probably better than a Miata, but I have a feeling it won't hold a candle to most compacts just due to the low curb weight and low traction alone. Most of the reasons you gave against the Miata actually also apply to the mini. Hence my concern. It's pretty impractical given what the MSRP is, and on top of that it's a lightweight box that will be dwarfed in size by most cars on the road. I just see a potential plymouth prowler effect here. Great reviews, fun to drive, wins all the accolates, but people decide to buy the Focus or Corolla instead, which offer 80% of the fun and 200% of the overall practicality and safety at 75% of the price.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I own a 2000 Focus ZX3, and absolutely love it - love the style, room, power. Don't even really mind the cheapness of some of its parts, as noted by silverbullet, due to its very low upfront cost. Mine has been incredibly reliable over 74,000 (yes!) miles, outside of the recalls.
The MINI, imho, is in a totally different niche than the Focus. The Focus is a very mainstream car using good mainstream Ford parts. The MINI, as you are probably well aware, borrows a great deal from the BMW E46 3 series parts bin - not a bad thing. Take a look too at the list of standard equipment on the MINI - you'll find many features of the E46 included in the price - EBD, CBC, head airbags, throttle by wire etc - lots of items that Ford simply cannot add in to the Focus at the price the Focus is offered. I watched a video on a MINI this morning showing the MINI's tachometer - very similar to the tach in BMW's M3 and M5 - and very cool !!
Bottom line - the MINI is a fine car by all accounts, as is the Focus. I have my order in for a new MINI, and I'll genuinely miss my ZX3. Good luck with your vehicle choice.
Having said that, you can option out a Cooper or Cooper S to $20-22k. That doesn't put the Cooper into the Accord or Camry class; maybe the same price range, but certainly not the same class.
If you are looking to spend 20-22k on a family car, then perhaps an Accord is for you. I doubt that BMW will find many buyers cross-shopping MINI with the two family sedans noted.
Does this translate into sales? Maybe, maybe not but what it does say is that there is something ultracool about this little car that has people fixated on it whether they will end up buying or not.
I agree that its miniscule size makes it a questionable choice for many simply on the perception of safety issues. Still front airbags, side airbags, head airbags, DSC, Traction Control 4 wheel ABS are not chopped liver.
What will sell this car is something you don't find on a Focus, Miata, Corolla, or most any other car. Only the Beetle can touch this car for outright cuteness, funkiness, uniqueness and just plain coolness.
Yes the car is 5 grand more than the average compact. But it has numerous features that you only find on more expensive cars.
What makes me drool over this car is purely the fact that it has what virtually no other car has. Namely, personality in spades. Colors that get you noticed, interiors that are like nothing anywhere else. Have you checked out the metal tubing type door trim, center mounted speedo, dash mounted toggle switches from the 60's. This car is special. I sat in a two tone black and tan leather model and I just loved it. The idea of a yellow Mini with black roof and two tone black and tan leather interior makes me feel excited. How about dark silver, black roof and red cloth interior. That's right "red". I remember when you could buy a car with an interior other than black, gray or beige. These are the intangibles that make the Mini such an exciting car.
Still, it's size is a real issue. As much as I'd like to do the deed it will be a serious issue to overcome. I'm single, to buy it would mean that it was my only car and I don't know if I can go so small if I have no alternative transport. I can tell you this though, if I were a two car family there'd be no stopping me.
At last year's show, the Thunderbird was by far the most crowded exhibit. According to the hype of the show, everyone was going to be driving them within months. It was going to be the most spectacular launch in the history of automobiles. Ford had a huge section of the cobo center floor (upstairs no less) with Thunderbirds of every conceivable color sitting there. That part of the center was packed. It had personality in spades, colors that got you noticed, and an interior that was like nothing anywhere else. Everyone said it was special. This car would single-handledly revive Ford and put the rest of the world on notice.
Well, you know how that one turned out. Everyone nodded, then went to the Chrysler dealership and bought a Sebring.
This isn't to say that the Mini won't be a smash hit. But "personality" actually does not sell cars. More often than not, it actually puts an incredible dent in car sales; for most people, human beings should have personality, not cars. The Mini's commercial success will depend on value, fun, utility and reliability, just like nearly every other car sold in the U.S.
As for the T-Bird I never liked it and even neat colors and retro interiors couldn't lure me to it. Throw in that 40000 dollar price tag and you can forget it.
You should remember that the market for the Mini will be a combination of nostalgia seekers and Gen Xers seeking something truly unique. A $20000 price tag is not off putting. The $40000 T-Bird tag will limit the car's appeal.
For the same money you can drive a 3 Series ragtop.
I think the Mini will have limited success but then that may be ok. It's not a mass market vehicle. If it sells 20-30 thousand that would be quite good.
I agree with the above poster, few will cross-shop the Mini with the Miata; the only similarity
the Mini has compared to the Miata is in general price point and the fact that both are likely to be owned as second vehicles. Miata seems to have more in common with the VW Cabrio in open-top appeal and sportiness than it has with the Mini.
The more likely comparison will between the Mini and the new Beetle and the new Civic Si. These will be real contenders for the Mini's market.
Um, actually, the only similar trait I gave is the low weight.
"no "track" car ever sustained multiple years worth of good sales. It has to appeal to the regular joe."
Need I point out the Integra?
By the way, I think the T-bird is doing quite well considering its high price and limited appeal based on practicality. The waiting list is still quite long in most areas and people are paying well over MSRP. I'm not saying that you can't find one sitting at a dealer somewhere - heck, when the PT Cruiser was still demanding a premium, the dealer around the corner from me had half a dozen sitting on his lot at any given time.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S