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Pontiac GTO
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Comments
My brother almost imported the '04 Goat to Warsaw (the price then was sooo good) but he ended up with the Honda Pilot instead. Good for him; he'd be in big trouble now - he's much taller than I am ;-) He would probably have to get the part from Britain where they're sold as Vauxhall Monaros...
Robert pointed out about 3 pages ago that you can change the output on your stock sound system. I did and it made a large difference.
OPen the boot, trunk.. peel back the laeft wall of carpet... on a metal plate between the gas tank and the fender is the amp for the system. REach around and you will feel the output nob. Turn it up or to what ever level you like. From stock its really low.
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Anyway, he suggested timing my strike as near month end as possible, since that's when the sales pressure really ramps up. It was tough because the black M6 sitting on the back lot unprepped was the only one I was really jazzed about and I was afraid it would be gone. The end of September rolls around and doesn't GM put the Employee Pricing on the remaining 05 GTOs? I got the employee pricing and a $1,000 dealer cash, brought the price down to $29k.
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The forum is great. I've already done the sub amp tweak (very cool) and ordered the replacement Goldwood subs as suggested by Robert. I'll be upgrading the door and rear panel speakers next week. I did have XM added using an XM Commander unit. The control module fits perfectly in the little storage unit below the head unit, but it wasn't possible to recess it enough to be able to close the door. The appearance of the control unit ties in nicely with the car's black-and-silver interior appointments. Ditto with the Escort Solo 2 cordless radar detector, which also eliminates the issue with the lack of a dash mounted 12v receptacle.
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XM has its own unique compression characteristic that tends to sound "boxy" if there isn't a direct connection to the amp (RCA or a cassette shell adapter). With the Blaupunkt the only option was FM modulation. The XM Commander physically jacks into the antenna input rather than relying on over-the-air modulation, however there is still a marked loss of highs and separation. I'm hoping replacing the door speakers with high grade aftermarket gear will help. Note that the XM unit will step on your regular FM stations, so turn it off if you want regular on air radio (but why would ya?)
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With regard to removing the head unit, the tool is handy (Circuit City sells them for $20, in my case the Pontiac dealer loaned us theirs). As far as requiring re-coding, we had the head unit out of the car entirely for several hours, and when re reconnected it, not only did it function fine, but it still retained its settings (except for the clock).
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My question is, how do you disable that goofy "overspeed" indicator? I've run through the set up screens and I think I'm selecting "No" for overspeed, but the damn thing goes off just when I'm about to "get busy". Thanks again.
On another note... Robert if you are reading this I was wondering if you have had any problems with the trunk release buttons. Sometimes mine works but most of the time I have to get out and hold the lid up and press the remote button at the same time. Fricken annoying cos I dont want to have to turn the car off every time I want to open the boot. I know the Aussie Monaro's dont have this problem I think this is just my car. The dealership does not have a clue how to fix it.!!
On another matter, I'm thinking of replacing the stock front speakers with components. Has anybody had success finding an appropriate mounting location on the upper door for the tweeter? There's a little triangular plastic piece that trims out the inside of the side rear-view mirrors that looks promising. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
'Coure, you could add an amp.
Will there be an '08 with this kind of sales performance?
Thin paper vs the thicker, beefier, more durable, higher power handling speakers. In general, a speaker with a higher power handling will have a lower sensitivity.
I did some listening tests for the front components and liked the MTX units best. They seemed warmer and less brassy than the Polk or Infiniti. Not sure about their relative efficiency but I'm gambling I can get by without and amp. MTX are on sale for $179, plus if you buy a second set (like their 6.5 coaxial for the rear sides) they're half off (or $35). That's $215 for the full compliment of door and rear panel drivers.
Anyway, I took Robert's suggestion and ordered two replacement subs from Parts Direct. The units he suggested were 8 ohm. I upgraded a little to their "heavy duty" 8 ohm drivers. However today the installers put an ohm meter to the factory subs and read 1 ohm of resistance on each. They're concerned anything greater will eventually cause the sub amp to fail. Anybody have any experience with these? I guess I'll wait till the replacement subs arrive and determine if an upgraded sub amp is in order.
As an aside, I've been whipping up on the Mustang and Subaru guys on their respective comparo forums.
It's interesting how the GTO, (which virtually every performance enthusiast who doesn't own one hates) so often serves as the "benchmark" car for everyone elses' comparison tests, in which it always narrowly loses. The thing is, the Mustang and Subaru guys seem to have a lot to say about the GTO. For some reason the car's very existence really gets under their skin. On the other hand, I'd guess most GTO guys couldn't care less about any other car, with the exception of what's in store for the 2007 GTO.
Seriously. I think we give about as much thought to other cars as Evil Knievel gave to the specs of the semi trucks he jumped over.
Maybe the rear speakers are coaxial.
They seemed warmer and less brassy than the Polk or Infiniti
That's interesting, I chose Polk over other brands for my Camaro because of the silk dome tweeters. FX6.
However today the installers put an ohm meter to the factory subs and read 1 ohm of resistance on each. They're concerned anything greater will eventually cause the sub amp to fail.
Wow, 1-ohm. Sounds like the factory wanted to get by with less amp or something. No wonder why it sounds so bad when you crank it up, the amp must be putting out a pretty gross signal, on top of the flimsy speakers.
I'm an EE and I don't see how going to a higher impedence is going to hurt the amp. It should draw far less current than the stock speaker, which will make the amp run cooler, but you'll need to dial in that much more gain to get the same output as before and maximum output will also be lower. Perhaps a sub upgrade is in order.
"The current model GTO will stop production no later than August of next year, maybe sooner (its Monaro counterpart ends production at the end of December). It can't be continued in North America because it doesn't meet 2007 MY crash standards."
Sorry to interrupt the smiling, happy people feeling around here but if GM doesn't stop bleeding red ink the 2008 is done as well. No $$ and/or time to spare to develop it.
"What I've heard from insiders is that the new Zeta-based GTO and Grand Prix/G8 are known as 2008-2009 models internally at GM. My guess is they might make the latter date, not the earlier one. Now that the big trucks are pretty well baked, they are throwing their resources behind Zeta to get these vehicles to market as quickly as possible. Or so goes the story...
The big problem with Zeta seems to have been that it was engineered by Holden, for Holden, for assembly in their one assembly plant. Holden's assembly methods do not translate well to GM North America - it was as if you had handed GMNA a Chrysler 300 and told them to build it. The chassis/floorplan/vehicle integration was totally different than what GMNA does, and it would have been expen$ive to adapt GMNA production processes to work like Holden.
It's also my understanding that the Aussie Zeta and the US Zeta are really different platforms. The Aussie Zeta is still based on the V-chassis, whereas the US Zeta will be based on a cheaper Sigma, with Holden suspension design. The plan is to unify these platforms into one common Zeta by the time revised Holdens come out (i.e. not the 2007-2008 models, but the generation after that). GM is slowly starting to get their platform act together - right now, even though the Saabs and Vectras are Epsilon-based vehicles, along with the Malibu and G6, you couldn't build a Saab at Fairfax or Lake Orion - that will change with the next-gen platforms... ditto Delta (Astra/Cobalt/Ion)"
--Robert
I'll believe it when I see one on a dealer's lot. GM seems to wobble back and forth on this every time top management has a meeting, and in the meantime time is a wasting.
But the front end (particularly the headlight treatment) reminds me of the upcoming Alfa Romeo 159:
http://www.carpages.co.uk/alfa_romeo/alfa-romeo-159-part-1-13-06-05.asp
No surprise Holden's manufacturing process doesn't translate well to GM's US plants...If the GTO is any indication, it's vastly superior. I wonder if Holden is strapped with the same sort of labor union and related expenses the American builders have. My guess is if it was built domestically to the same standard the GTO would be a $45,000 car.
A friend of mine is a lemon lawyer in Detroit. 99% of his business is Big Three, with GM leading the way. It's obvious they know how to build competitive cars, but much to his relief, they don't.
PS IF you like your GTO,you would love our utes(you call them pick ups).
Cheers Geoff (in Aus)
You should easily get a 100k miles with out any major problems.A lot of Monaros over here are Sunday cars so they generally have low miles.I havent heard of any reliability dramas.We did have issues with Gen 3 5.7s needing to be rebuilt early,suffering piston slap,very noisy in start up and using oil,between approx 99-02.My 5.7 commodore wagon has clocked up 100k km and hasnt missed a beat.I have noticed that Monaros with colored leather seem to mark/wear easily near the driver entry point,thats about it.
Cheers Geoff
I thought the black car with the red leather interior was striking, but I was concerned with the long term wear issues. Richly saturated colors (red in particular) require a lot of dye that's eventually going to fade or wear. I went with a black interior.
I believe that the airbags won't deploy unless you are moving at a speed of about 40m/h or faster, no matter how strong the impact is.
By the way, could you please have us posted with your GTO repairing?
Take care!
so even if you accept a settlement from the rear-ender insurance company today, you don't really know if a possibly-related symptom will appear in 10 or 15 years. good luck with getting your car repaired - but don't forget about getting your body repaired/x-rayed/MRId/fully-analysed by an orthopedic MD.
The question is to what degree the unibody was affected. (The car doesn't have a "frame" in the conventional sense. Virtually all post 80's cars are unibody.) Given your description of the spare well buckling I'm guessing there is considerable rear unibody damage. Pull the trunk floor carpet up. There are two lateral "rails" that form the spine of the car, where you'd expect to see the frame. See if they're kinked. Buckled quarters are another sign of rail involvement. The rails can be replaced (they should never be repaired) just like any other part, but it's a big job and indicative of a heavy hit. The good news is, the insurance company will be using all OEM parts. They may take a little longer to arrive but it's worth the wait.
Proper repair of a unibody car requires a shop with a laser measuring system. This is a drive-on rack that can measure the unibody geometry and determine to what degree the car is "tweaked". A good shop will actually rebuild the car on the rack if it's a really heavy hit, taking constant measurements along the way.
If you can, post some photos. I'll give you some more specific guidance. As for the other insurance company, if their driver was drunk, and you were hurt, they will likely have some lee-way on the damage estimate... as long as you do not have an attorney. They have that leeway in order to maintain rapport with you so they can eventually resolve the injury claim. If you hire an attorney, they have no incentive to compromise fo you on the car. (And the attorney couldn't care less about the car. They may claim to in order to get you into the office, but they work on a contingency fee and there's no fee for them on the car repairs. It's all about the injury claim for them.)
It is unethical for an adjuster to tie the property damage claim to the bodily injury claim, ie, if we pay you "X" on the car, can we get an injury release for "Y"? The fact is, it will take several months for your injury claim to resolve, while the car will be wrapped up more quickly (we hope). So, tell the adjuster you're willing to work with him on the injury claim (if the guy had BI coverage). Sign a "med auth" if he asks... it's not a release and it shows good faith. It'll also buy you time on the car while they hunt down all of your medical records. Unless and until you sign a release, you can always hire a lawyer and litigate the claim, limited only by your state's Statute Of Limitations (usually at least 3 years).
If you can, let me know the following:
What state the accident occured in.
Who your carrier is.
Do you carry UM (uninsured motorist) coverage? If so, what amount?
Who the other carrier is.
You can email me this info via my Edmunds profile.
We'll get you through this and back on the road, and put some money in your pocket besides. You can spend it on some cool stuff for the GTO if it'll make you feel better.
When I click the lock button on the remote, I can watch the drivers lock go down and then pop back up, enough so that the alarm arms but the door can still be opened by a simple pull of the handle. Using the key in the door to lock it will work... A friend, who's a Navy electronics engineer, says it is more than likely a bad solenoid for the throw mechanism. But I was curious if anyone else was experiencing this also.
I will be taking it to the dealer for a warranty repair, as I don't consider the electric locks to be "wear & tear" item. I will update the board after that.
(BTW IBM/M6/2004 13000miles)
Thanks
Tole
On a more serious note, the 5.7 litre engine caused huge problems for Holden and for GM here in the states, with a condition called "piston slap". This is characterized by a loud clattering sound at start up, and there is a related higher than normal oil burn. For that reason alone I'd be wary of a used 04 that hasn't been checked by a mechanic familiar with the condition. I have heard of no specific problems with the 5.7 in the 04 GTO, the problem was found in GM trucks and SUV's.
Not to take anything away from the 04 owners... a GTO is still a GTO after all... but to me the 04's don't look fully baked when compared with the 05's. Taken as a total package the minor cosmetic enhancements and the full 400 hp add up to more than the sum of the parts. I'd spend the extra money on a close-out new 05 but I assure you, whatever GTO you buy, you'll love the car.
All the parts I have were taken off the car before I took deliverly so they are mint condition. The only downside is my parts are Midnight Blue and would have to be paint matched.
If you or anyone else on this forum is interested I will talk to you privately by e-mail or phone.
Regarding wheels, the 18's are nicer-looking than the 17's, but they come with Bridgestone Potenza RE040 summer-only tires that don't have nearly the lifetime of the KDWS that come with the 17's (think 10k miles). The chassis was engineered for 18" rims and tires, but GM dropped to 17's due to concerns about the survivability of the rims, and the harshness of the ride, on the 18's on the average American road... I am leaning towards buying new 18" (CV8-R) rims when my tires are shot (not for another year), but will test-drive similar rims and tires before buying.
--Robert
--Robert
I have seen a number of other GTO crash pictures. The car has always done extremely well in protecting the occupant by crumpling up. In very few cases, the airbags have gone off. According to the Aussies, this is by design - the airbag is engineered to only go off when it needs to, when it is more likely to help rather than hurt the front passengers. Of course, the Aussies get side airbags, which didn't meet U.S. spec so they were pulled from the GTO. I believe the Monaro and its Commodore-based brethren (Ute, Statesman, Caprice, et. al.) crash-test very well.
If anything were to happen to my GTO I would probably take it to a body shop where they specialize in high-end (BMW, Mercedes, et. al.) work.
I have heard of one case where the basic floor pan of the car was damaged in a rear impact, and it took three months - yes, months - to get one here. If you run into something like this, drop me an email (address in my profile) and I can put you in contact with some Pontiac folks that might help expedite the parts (probably won't do anything until you've waited a month, though)...
--Robert
Again, get yourself checked repeatedly.
Also, I'm no expert, but, in addition to paying for your car's repair, I believe the DUI's insurance company is responsible for the "diminished value" - even if your car is fixed, you'd still get $2k or more less for it were you to trade-it in (since it's been damaged and it's worth that much less than an undamaged car).
Hope this helps,
--Robert
I've heard of others having problems with the rear cubby door falling off, the rattling shifter knob, and the lumpy/rides like there are rocks in the rails of the front seats (there is a TSB out for this, for both '04's and at least the first few months of '05's - I haven't tried to get this done yet, as the parts were terribly back-ordered). Also, water leaks, either from the underside of the door, or from the air vent piece, are not uncommon... check your floor/mats if your car's been sitting in the rain.
--Robert
Front Door Lock Will Not Unlock or Will Lock Intermittently (Install New Door Lock Assembly) #04-08-64-018 - (Aug 24, 2004)
Front Door Lock Will Not Unlock or Will Lock Intermittently (Install New Door Lock Assembly)
2004 Pontiac GTO
Built Prior to VIN Breakpoint 4L225024
Condition
Some customers may comment that the front door lock will not unlock or will lock intermittently.
Cause
This condition may be due to internal friction within the door lock mechanism at the rivet which attaches the door external handle lever to the lock base. The lever is returned to the rest position by the return (or torsion) spring. The door lock will not release unless the lever returns fully to the rest position.
Correction
Install a new door lock assembly. Refer to Lock Replacement-Door (SI Document ID #1340736).
Parts Information
Part Number
Description
92143359
Front Side Door Lock (LH)
92143360
Front Side Door Lock (RH)
Parts are currently available from GMSPO.
Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation
B4260
Lock, Front Door-Right - R&R or Replace
Use Published Labor Operation Time
B4261
Lock, Front Door-Left - R&R or Replace
Besides the LS2 engine (with electronic throttle control - no throttle cable), hood scoops, and the revised rear fascia (both cars have dual exhaust, the '05's are just seperated versus one-side exit on the '04's), the '05's also get significantly better brakes and optional 18" wheels. The auto tranny is also beefed up/re-worked on the '05's as well (not sure what you're looking at). And, the '05's have the benefits of having virtually no TSB's/few known issues.
Having said that, the '04's represent a tremendous bargain for $20-$21k (I wouldn't pay more than that for one). Look at the VIN - last 6 digits will vary between 176xxx and 317xxx - look for a higher VIN, which has more rolling changes/fewer TSB's). If you find an older one at a good price, I wouldn't avoid it, but would take the VIN in to a friendly Pontiac dealer and have them run it through SI to get the service history of the vehicle (will tell you which TSB's and repairs have been done).
If you end up with an '05 in a color common to the '04's, you can probably find someone to swap hoods if you want the unscooped version. I've been seeing people pay $300-$400 to do the swap, FYI.
--Robert
Had the Cosmos Purple color stayed on for '05, I would have waited and bought one, but it didn't, so I didn't wait. Don't regret my purchase at all, even though I went through hell with GTO #1 before getting it exchanged...
--Robert
As kevm14 guessed, the rears are coaxial. The tweeters are between the A-pillar and the dash. I left them alone - it wasn't highs that were the problem, it was lows (and the distortion present due to the cheap @#$@#$ paper-cone speakers).
--Robert