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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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Don't read too much into that article...your conclusion that Ford won't be using CVTs after 2007 may or may not be the case, but nothing in that article requires that conclusion.
There are several reasons for this:
1. It cost too much money to build a CVT. New GM-Ford 6-speed will be cheaper to build.
2. Current CVT cannot handle torque of 3.5l engine. So its limited to 3.0l Duratech. I believe that Duratech will be discontinued down the road as well.
3. The original plan was to produce 1M CVT per year; it was reduced to 250K per year. New Ford products such as Fusion do not use CVT. They use 6-speed. If Ford were serious about CVT they would certainly introduce it on new products besides 500 and Freestyle.
4. According to ANT14, Ford is working on a new version of CVT using TOROTACK technology. This version of CVT will eliminate the Torque Converter ,which will improve the fuel economy. This means that the current CVT as used on 500 is an intermediate development of CVT technology at best.
My personal opinion about the whole CVT issue is this. The CVT development was stared by Jacques Nasser. This guy had no idea what he was doing, and really had no business running Ford. Remember Ford started to go down hill with him at the helm. The best move Bill Ford made was to fire him before he run Ford into the ground.
So he stared this whole CVT development thing because the original projections were that CVT would cost x% less to produce and would provide 10% better fuel economy, and it was new and exciting. The development stared and then people stared to realize that this CVT transmission was not as easy as every body thought. The project was two years behind schedule. Then ZF pulled out because they did not want to invest any more money into it. Companies don’t just pull out from a project because of nothing. There must have been good reason why Ford and ZF split apart on this project. I don’t know why because I don’t work for Ford, but you can be sure it was something serious. I know Germans. They are very stubborn and they can usually finish a project. So it must have been a money issue, like ZF could not deliver CVT for a negotiated price.
Ford took over the whole project and continued to pour millions of dollars into it. The internal data showed that CVT was not giving the fuel economy everybody expected and it cost more to build then a conventional transmission. But now they faced a problem. They invested millions of dollars into it. They had to produce something, or heads in top management would roll.
In the mean time the 500 and Freestyle are being developed and it’s committed that 500 and Freestyle will use the newly developed CVT. I am not sure who decided to do this, but it was on a high level. They had to use CVT because millions upon millions of dollars were spent on this technology. The factory was already built. It was too late to cancel this project.
Luckily cooled heads at Ford prevailed and they started to develop a 6-speed with GM. Think about it. Why would Ford start to develop a 6-speed transmission with a competitor when they had the CVT. If CVT were truly a world-class technology there would be not need for a conventional 6-speed. NO, in 2000 when the development of CVT was running behind schedule and it was apparent that CVT would not deliver on its promise, Ford stared to develop the 6-speed with GM. Lets see which transmission will be used in the future? The GM-Ford 6-speed automatic is the FUTURE.
Like I said, I don’t work for Ford. This is just a likely scenario of what happened based on available information. Remember in 1990’s the 2 stroke engines were supposed to be the future (another well proven technology). In 2000’s the CVT is the future. 2010’s the hydrogen will be the future.
what was the other vehicle involved in the the collision?
my expedition got the front left wheel knocked off it, but the airbags did not deploy. i drove right through the other vehicle. i should point out that i tried to avoid it and they were traveling the wrong way.
i basically agree, except about the performance. it does seem to work. it is just an expensive way to get there.
don't know if currency values play into it.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3165/is_3_40/ai_113808879
Mark
The ZF supplied 6 speed automatic used in RWD vehicles like the XJ, Navigator, etc.
So are we going to spin it and say Ford is doing this because they felt sorry for what they did to ZF years ago?
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=108292#3
What's up with THAT? Isn't it more important to get that engine available as an option in the Five Hundred/Montego, which the media has had a field day calling underpowered?
Just unbelievable that the Five hundred has to wait its turn behind Mazda and others.
True, I see your point, but the first vehicle to debut the engine will be the Lincoln Aviator, so being it's on the same assembly line, it's not much of an issue to dump it into the Edge or any other CD3 derived equivilant.
As for the F/M/Z, they get it next mainly because of the AWD option, and new JV FMC/GM 6 speed automatic. It's easier to just combine those three components, and just dump them into those vehicles.
If the 500 were to receive the 3.5L first, then A) the transmission isn't ready for Ford just yet the existing AWD would require beefing up C )Not many would know that such items have been introduced unless they see a new face. New face when? Next remodel period which is 2007, as a 2008 vehicle. In other words, your looking at 14-18 months from now.
After those vehicles, then you'll see the engine surplanting various other engines families, as newly redesigned vehicles are being introduced... As is, when the Freestar/Monterey minivans are replaced, the engines in it will also be killed 3.9L/4.2L. Next "people mover" will use the new V6's and V8's.
Let's not forget, these factories manufacturing these components require time to tool up, build, and slowly phase them into vehicles as they ramp up. And the same will occur when certain engines are killed. Can't yank all 3.9L/4.2L in a months time, rather slowly kill them off as new vehicles are redesigned to accept the newer ones.
Unfortunately, I see your point that if the car does not look different, many dealers and buyers will never be able to focus on the improvements.
New V8 meaning, the Volvo's Yamaha 4.4L, which will first be used in a few Lincolns. And the Triton 4.6L, doesn't necessarily need to stay at 4.6L either...
Gtee,
Originally yes, the plan was the phase in the 3.5L a few years ago. Even the Lincoln LS was to receive the new 3.5L as well, but because other fires needed to be put out, that got pushed back. The positive thing is that in the process of being introduced a bit later, it gained VVT, and various other components.
I'm looking at buying a new '05 SE FWD as I was able to get a pretty good deal on it. I have not road tested it yet, but for those of you who own one, how is the ride comfort? Firm, soft, in the middle?
Thanks!
Somewhere between soft and in the middle.
Smoother than a Taurus, not as soft as a Town Car.
You're buying it based soley on the price?
Also, this is one of the Safety cars you can buy according to IIHS.
visit www.highwaysafety.org
As I recall, the possible failure of the straps was something that isn't supposed to happen for quite a few miles?
TIA
I just traded-in my vehicle for a 500 SEL and I'm very happy so far! When driving back on the freeway, and applying the brakes, I noticed an unusual noise coming from the front of the car. (I assume the brakes, but maybe the engine?)
Whenever I apply the brakes when going faster than about 20mph, I hear a fairly loud noise similar to jake-brakes on 18-wheelers. I wonder if it's normal since it's a new car, and maybe the pads need to adjust.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks!
Mission acomplished.
Now you can tell your children that the reason they don't ride in the safest full size sedan available is because you think the looks are too conservative or because you feel that the 0-60 times in the 8 second range are inadequate...
Mark
2006 Five Hundred SE FWD
with Safety package and Traction Control
Total MSRP $23,920?
Or a 2006 Ford Fusion SE-V6
With SE Sport Package (alloys and 6CD)
Safety and Security
ABS and Traction control,
Total MSRP $22,955?
Mark
Frank
I wouldn't be so sure of that, given current trends in oil and gas prices.
Here is a good example the new Jeep Grand Cheoroke offers the "Hemi" as an option.
The new Explorer only offers the 4.6L 3 Valve engine from the new Mustang.
In a quarter mile run, the Jeep clearly beats the Explorer by about 1.5 seconds.
In racing that might as well be 2 hours but in the real world, are you really going to pay $2,500 just so you can get away from a stop light a little quicker? Especially with todays gas prices?
The wimpy frame used on the Jeep doesn't even allow it to take advantage of the HP, as the Explorer leads in tow capacity.
The goal for Ford should be to build good cars that are very competitve at doing what they were designed to do.
The Five Hundred was designed to be a big comfortable family sedan offering more features for the money than an Accord or Camry.
Whether or not this car offers a person's perceived level of performance is mute. Those people are not shopping for this kind of car anyway.
People say to them selves "Gee this car doesn't feel as fast as the Chrysler 300 but I can get AWD for the price of the Rear Drive Chrysler. And we do get snow here. I know traction control helps rear drive cars in the snow but you should still get snow tires. The 300 has a smaller trunk and I like to go on golf weekends now that the kids are out of the house. The Five Hundred has better crash test results. The styling on the 300 seems like it will be OUT of style in a couple of years and I always keep my cars a long time.
What are your reasons for buying a car?
Mark
I liked the styling of the 300 and Magnum when they first came out. I must say, though, that now I don't really care for it all that much.
However, they DO still stand out in a crowd.
For the record, I've driven a 500, and would describe the power as, um, adequate.
Another thing to consider is the smoothness and sound quality. The 3.0 Duratec is not the smoothest or quietest engine around. I don't mind that in our '01 Duratec Taurus because the thing was only $16K and change when new. However, as you move to a higher class of car for more money, the little tingle you feel through the accelerator or the labored sound under acceleration is more annoying. I am expecting the 3.5 to be improved in those areas.
Mark
This is my first post here.
I drove a loaded (except nav and entertainment dvd) Limited AWD a couple of days ago. The salesman suggested I take it overnight, which I did. This allowed myself and my wife to get a pretty good idea of the car.
We really liked it - extremely safe; lots of features; tons of room; very nice interior; great ride/good handling; well put together; great value (including .9% financing up to three year term!!); etc...
The only major thing we didn't like, which I see is a current topic of conversation on this board, is the engine.
The power did not seem lacking, but it was the noise that accompanied some acceleration that was annoying.
We certainley hope that Ford installs the 3.5 enging, perhaps in the 2007 model year - at which point we would probably buy one.
Any consensus/idea as to the realistic possibility of that happening? Any idea of other features/options that might be new for 2007?
Any/all comments are appreciated and thanks!!
This is why they put a radio in the car. LOL
Crank it up! :P
You can probably lease a decently equipped Explorer for similar money as the loaded Freestyle.
Mark
b. I see no beauty or uniqueness in either the Camry or the Accord. Many others agree.
c. I own a Five Hundred. I know many others who also do. I am nowhere near 65.. I even have one friend who is 18 who owns one! I also consider the current body style attractive. To me, the biggest need for the car is more power (and I particularly like the CVT, which, from what I read, is not likely to make it to the 2008 models, at least not with the 3.5. A pity, IMHO).
After spending a week with this car I realize that it wasn't meant to spur the sport/performance side of me. Instead, the 500 appears to have been designed to be a well mannered family sedan... period (and quite a nice one at that). Hopefully, within the next month I will choose the 500 as my next vehicle.