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Cadillac CTS/CTS-V



  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Posts: 486
    Well, that's that. I'm actually surprised that someone fessed up to it so early. Caddy is going to get crucified in the press, especially after running so many TV ads featuring the stickshift.

    But I hate to admit it, but she's probably right. According to GM's own website, the average age of the CTS buyer is 55...a decade younger than the typical Cadillac customer, but still a decade older than where they'd probably like to be in this car. And I imagine it would be the younger buyers who would demand a stickshift.

    Well, at least the CTSv will still get one.
  • jemillerjemiller Posts: 183
    Not to mention the V8 Holden and HSV models, the 2003-up Mustang Cobra, Viper, the new 'cheap' Aston Martin, and probably a few others I'm overlooking.

    The Aston and the '05 Cobra get hardware added to the T56 to make it a toggle-shifted sequential-pseudoautomatic e.g BMW's SMG and Ferrari's F1 setup. I'm sure it'll get into other T56 applications at some point.
  • jemillerjemiller Posts: 183
    What you have here is the danger of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I'm honestly very surprised at that number, because it indicates that Cadillac may have sold quite a few CTSes, but they haven't gotten to the market they need to get to.
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    Too bad you didn't ask her if the automanual from the SRX will be offered. That would make both me and my wife happy, and I will likely wait a little longer and get a 3.6 instead of a 3.2.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    So many people I know always look for a stick in a car but then if you see what they drive or ask them what they drive, it's typically an automatic. If people don't buy them, they won't be made.
  • mannytrannymannytranny Posts: 175
    I was still hoping that Cadillac would not follow the LS and drop the manual. When I went out looking for a car I looked at the LS and asked to test a manual. The only way I could do that was to order one because there were none around except one several states away and no local dealer wanted any. So I went to Cadillac. Tested it and wanted it immediately.
    Looked at Mercedes, and BMW but decided on CTS because I liked it better overall. I thought Cadillac had it together.
         I was waiting for the 3.6 as a trade but now with the facts in hand I guess that I'll be looking at BMW again. The Corvette is also a possibility, but presently family is restoring our 63 so I didn't want another Vette or maybe just wait it out for a V.
         I suspect that Cadillac will follow LS even when the CTSv arrives. Even on this thread most of the CTSs are auto.
  • bxd20bxd20 Posts: 68
    I can understand the short-term economics of not offering a manual with the 3.6 but in the long term they are hurting their attempt to gain a younger audience and hurting their chances of ever competing with the likes of BMW.

    I'm 27, screaming for a true domestic sports sedan. This is an insult, I won't drive something rated 6.9 that costs almost $40k loaded and have 330's, G35's, Passat W8's, Maxima's, Altima 3.5's, Buick Regal GS, Pontiac Grand Prix (i'll stop the list here).... all packing more punch.

  • cu95cu95 Posts: 96
    mcgreenx mentioned in his earlier post that when his faulty radio was replaced that it got a digital clock and the button on the right of the steering wheel now mutes the radio. What does that button do on older CTSs and when did the switch occur? I know that the navigation system went from cd based to dvd based, were there other tweaks that occurred during the 2003 model year that may make a later edition 2003 more desirable? Thanks.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Posts: 1,058
    I sent this message to Kelly -Will there be on offered at a later date or never? She responded "Possibly at a much later date (into new model year)."
    I also sent her a email today in regards to the manumatic. I will let everyone know what I find out.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    I've seen the subway ad a few times and agree, it is pretty good. While I know Cadillac is wanting to focus on their future products, I don't think putting the STS or DTS in some of those ads is a bad thing. The STS and DTS ae still very nice and modern Cadillacs and from an engineering standpoint, they are more advanced than the Escalade.

    Someone please forward this to Cadillac: Not offering a manual with the new engine is a BIG mistake. What could me more fun than a well balanced RWD sedan with a 260 hp engine and manual transmission? THIS IS WHAT CADILLAC NEEDS TO ATTRACT NEW CUSTOMERS FROM BMW, AUDI, AND MB. Sure the manual may not sell in big numbers, but don't ruin the fun for those of us who enjoy driving. Several months ago I had read that the 04 CTS would have the new more powerful V6 engine and a 6 speed manual. When I read that, I was fully prepared to wait another year before I get a new car. Now that Cadillac is not going to offer a manual with the larger engine and looks to be offering the larger V6 on higher priced models, I may just go ahead and look seriously at a Saab 9-3 Arc(which BTW has a 6 speed manual). Don't get me wrong, I love Cadillacs and I love the CTS as it is now, but if Infiniti can build a similar sized car with a powerful V6 and offer a manual(which will probably sell in small numbers) at a low 30s price point, then I know Cadillac can. Sure I'd love a CTS-V when it comes out, but it will probably be out of my price range. While I could probably be happy with a CTS(3.6) with the automatic, I'd love to be able to row my own gears. Cadillac, I'm 27 and in my life have the potential to buy alot of cars and I'm sure there are others here(young and old) with similar sentiments. This may sound cliche, but if you build it(CTS with the 3.6 and manual) and keep the price at a competitive point, the customers will come. My guess is the number of manual customers would be small, but trust me they will be very loyal. And as word gets around and more people drive the car(as well as continual improvement) sales will increase. Remember, the BMW 3 series used to sell in the 40K annally range, now it is one of the best selling "near luxury" cars. Cadillac has serious potnential with an already great car here, I'd like to see them take full advantage of it.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    I think you may put a little too much stock in those "first drive" magazine tests. But if you really like the magazine tests, C&D did one of their comparison tests a couple months back with the CTS and 5 other similar cars (many that you listed). I remember it out accelerated some of the cars you mention and was very close to several others. It did very well. Plenty of punch.

    Also, the same issue (different article) had the "first drive" new Accord V6 with 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times better than the cars you list as having "more punch". Yes, the BMW 330, the W8, and the G35. For some reason, many of these cars performed nowhere near their earlier "first drive" tests. Hmmm.

    Anyway, not to make a federal case, but I would not put a whole lot on the magazine acceleration numbers. There is a lot of questionable stuff going on there.
  • Sorry for not replying for a while, good to see the thread this hopping!

    Sevenfeet0 - Thank goodness your wife is o.k. Our team appreciates the kind words and I'm personally happy that the attention to detail in the handling is recognized. Hopefully it won't be in such dramatic circumstances next time! (By the way my wife is 5 months along with our first!)

    Bigdaddycoats - Sorry if I haven't replied to your specific questions before. Perhaps it is because you're knowledgeable enough to ask questions that I'm not allowed to answer! I'd love to "spill my guts" but I can't. By the way, I don't think the manny future is as dire as it may seem to you right now

    The FE3 package does have load leveling in the form of Nivomat self-leveling shocks from Sachs. The vehicle will correct its trim height within 1 km of driving (shocks level with pumping of driving). By the way the Nivomats increase spring rate to level the load, and also increase the amount of damping so the vehicle remains well damped when loaded.

    I look forward to when I can share some tidbits about the CTS-V!
  • stanny1stanny1 Posts: 962
    Talked with my client who is co-owner of the largest Caddy dealership in San Diego.
    He said that Manual tranny CTS sales are 2% of total CTS sales.
    Has 2 in stock.
    Has sold only 3 or so.
    Doesn't know when the High Feature V-6 will come out with the manual.
    Is the Manual doomed as it was with the Lincoln LS?
    Is the G35 and IS300 MTXes going to have the same fate as well?
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 3,019
    "Also, the same issue (different article) had the "first drive" new Accord V6 with 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times better than the cars you list as having "more punch". Yes, the BMW 330, the W8, and the G35. For some reason, many of these cars performed nowhere near their earlier "first drive" tests. Hmmm."

    In a later issue (Jan.?) - in letters to the editor - C/D acknowledged the performance numbers discrepancy. They attributed it to likely be the result bad gas.

    - Ray
    Always desiring the best performance . . .
    2016 BMW 340i
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    Yes, I am aware of that. The "bad gas" excuse. I did hear they printed that lame-o excuse. If you think about it, it is laughable at best. So the reader is to believe that they run this comparison test (it was at least 6 cars) and they had NO CLUE that anything was wrong. Good grief, these are paid professionals. Or, they print the whole article knowing something was wrong without mentioning there was a problem. Either scenario - no way.

    If the gas was bad, you'd think these paid auto professionals would have noticed something with the car's performance. The times should have at least tipped them off. They could have run it again after correcting the situation. Yeah, they "figure out" it was "bad gas" after people write and point that something was wrong. Did they test the gas somehow afterward to confirm it's deficiency or problem?

    Also, it's funny that the "bad gas" seemed to affect some of the cars more than others. If I remember, that G35 really must have got some bad stuff while other cars performed closer to other tests.

    Additionally, they do this stuff all the time. You'd think they've secured a reliable source of fuel for their tests.

    That excuse is so easy to shoot full of holes it's sad. The reality MAY be that some of the "first drive" cars are "tuned" a bit differently then what you buy. They are blueprinted perhaps. Ringers. Whatever. It's a nice relationship between the auto manufacturers and the magazines. They can send whatever they want to the magazine and it's gets reported (advertised) with that performance. Also, the excitement sells magazines.

    Notice, I said MAY. But it is my strong suspicion. When you look at all the huge money to be had at the first impressions and the often quoted magazine performance numbers in TV and magazine advertisements, it's easy to see a motivation.

    I also remember the 350Z being tested in some magazine and they actually dyno'd it (actually, all the "first drivers" should be chassis dyno'd in a controlled environment to test output to keep everybody honest - but I don't think we will see that anytime soon). Anyway, the 350Z was putting about 85% power to the wheels. I'm no expert on that, but 85% seems awfully good. Maybe it was pumping out a little more at the crank to start with.

    I still say - don't pay too close attention to the magazines.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Back in 1993 when the 4th gen Z28 came out Car and Driver pulled a 0-60 time of 5.0 seconds.
    This was with the 275hp LT1 motor and a 6 speed tranny.
    Fast forward to 2002 when the LS1 powered SS packing 335 hp couldn't meet the 5.0 second 0-60 time of the '93 car.
    And it has been proven that the LS1 was underrated. They will usually do 285-300 hp at the wheels.
    I guess it would be fair to say that the '93 car was a ringer.
    Same thing with the '94 Impala SS. 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds according to Car and Driver. I can guarantee you that no stock Impala SS ever did 0-60 in 6.5 secs.
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Posts: 535
    It's hard to believe Cadillac isnt offering a 5/6 spd on the 3.6 even if they are not selling that well ( does anyone sell high percentage of manuals ) how many 540i 6spd out there ? Do 540i 6spd take big hits on resale ?
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Posts: 535
    autotrader does have ONE 5spd CTS at 20995 ( can you say stripped with what kind of history!!) but if you do a search for manual CTS 21K seems to be 10K- 12K under AVERAGE asking price . So maybe the cited crashing resale prices are just fabrications of the imagination ?
  • bingomanbingoman Posts: 373
    Was the "bad gas" in the cars or the drivers? LOL, sorry, the devil made me do it.
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    What is the FE3 package?

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    If Caddy was making the CTS as a hobby car it would be hard to understand. But last time I checked they're in business for one reason and that's to make money. It costs a lot of money to produce a manual drivetrain and 2% of sales isn't going to recover that cost.

    Don't forget that most - if not all - of those "other" brands that have manuals sell them overseas in Europe and Japan and over there they are the predominant tranny choice. They don't have to sell a lot here to justify the added cost.
  • mcgreenxmcgreenx Posts: 179
    My LuxSport was delivered in mid-September, but I don't know when it was built. The radio switch was made by that time because others here, whose cars were delivered around the same time, had the new radio, so mine must have been on the lot for a while. On my original setup, the steering wheel button activated the built-in cell phone. It was a total waste, as far as I was concerned, as is the cell phone to begin with, but I guess that OnStar equipment already contains all that is necessary for the phone, so the incremental cost is probably very low. Now, as I said, the button activates the audio mute, which I much prefer. BTW, I'm assuming the newer cars have the handsfree built-in cell phone, right?

    Also BTW, I thought I read here that the '04 is doing away with the round steering wheel radio volume control. IMO that's one of the handiest steering wheel controls I've used. The four programmable buttons on the left are nice, but once programmed to my liking, I never change them.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Posts: 486
    If 98% of the CTS's out there are manuals, then that means there probably aren't going to be a lot of used ones out there.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Posts: 486
    My car was delivered on Oct 1 and it had the new radio too. Truthfully, I didn't even know about the switch...I thought all CTS radios had the digital clock...which made me wonder why they bothered with the analog one. I guess the analog clock came first.
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Posts: 535
    Cars like the Corvette and Eldorado did/do have hobby like production numbers at various times . It took many many years to drop the Eldo and they will probably never drop the vette
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    There was another manual on Autotrader a couple of weeks ago for $19995, less than 10K miles... so the one on there now wasn't the only one.
  • bxd20bxd20 Posts: 68
    Is gone forever? Is there another place on the web for discussing the CTS? I like Edmunds but it doesn't fill the whole need (forums, part sources, gallerys, tuning advice).
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Posts: 535
    So we have learned that Americans prefer Automatic transmissions . Ground breaking
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Posts: 535
    Thanks for the info on those websites I will check them out and see if they are more useful than learning that Ameriacns prefer the automatic
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    Here is something you likely didn't know though.. Canadians also prefer automatics by a landslide. See, it's time well spent here.

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