Jeep Wrangler

twylie · November 2002

I usually put a few pulls in them at each change. I try to put enough in so that the boot just barely starts to show some signs of being filled. It really depends on the grease gun you're using as to how many pull/pumps it will take. You want to try to avoid putting so much in that the seal gets broken at the boot collar, so I ususally stop once it I see it moving a bit.

Larry - you're right, Stu's site is probably the best noncommercial site/reference for Jeepers on the web. I thought that link had been posted before, but I guess it's good to refresh it for the newer members. I try to check his site every month or so to see what new DIY adventures he's gotten into.

-twylie

tsjay · November 2002

Hey, thanks for the instructions on the Camedia software! Now I don't have to buy any photo editing software.

It turns out that the software that came with the camera does the file re-sizing that I wanted to be able to do. I might buy some "fancy" editing software someday, but for the near future, I will just use the Camedia.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal · November 2002

I think that you mislead people by saying you are only 15 minutes away from UCLA. While it might take that if there is no traffic (and when is there no traffic?), it seems like it is a world away in almost every other way! And there are UCLA students living all over SoCal - not many can afford to live very close to campus, unless they have lots of roommates...

Maybe you should paint that lovely yellow Wrangler another color, like black. That doesn't seem to be as popular a color, though there are sure a bunch of black Wranglers on the road around LA!

shill3 · November 2002

This could also be the work of black market thieves, specializing in a particular aspect of Jeeps. My cousin had his Corvette T-tops stolen twice. Where did he go for replacements? Some shady character on a back street. He might as well have paid "protection" money and saved himself the expense.

His solution was to go in with some other Vette owners on a large garage. So far, so good.

Hey, you live in LA. Just go doorless until your two week rainy season hits. :> )

autoreporter · November 2002

I'm a reporter looking to interview someone who owns a Wrangler Rubicon and also played the EVO game featuring the Jeep. You can reach me at autoreporter@yahoo.com. Thanks.

anonymous02 · November 2002

I usually pump the grease gun until it starts coming out, then wipe off the excess with a rag.

I second the doorless approach. They can't steal 'em if they ain't there!

Stu's site IS really good. Don't forget to scroll down in each box. After I discovered that you could, my choices DOUBLED!

kelleyo · November 2002

having 4.56 gears installed. With the 33" tires the difference from the old 3.07 is incredible.

I have my gears back!!!!!!!!!

01r1 · November 2002

I've got the same problem you had, 33" tires with the 3.07 gears. I am debating on the 4.56 gearing. What's your RPMs like at 60 or 70 mph? I would love to be able use 5th gear again (other than downhill w/ tailwind).

I've been talking with a local 4x4 shop and was quoted $2850 for the gear change. This was new axle casings front and back, super 35 kit in rear, air lockers front and back with HD belt driven air compressor.

Thanks,
Pete

anonymous02 · November 2002

I wonder if your gas mileage will improve with the new gears. From all I've read, it should.

$2850? WOW! No wonder I'm sticking with the 31's! I reread that, and it isn't even for Dana 44's? Double WOW!!!

kelleyo · November 2002

RPMS are fine, right in the power band.

Basically the 3.07's with 33's 5th gear was useless. In town third was too low and 4th too high. Getting out of the hole in 1st was also tough on the clutch. Towing was a pain as well. Also with the 3.07 I had a speedo error of about 5 mph (reported too low) wich means at 60 indicated I was really doing 65. That is not good...

With the 4.56 I can ease the clutch out with very little throttle and on level road it does not even bog. I am now cruising in 4th instead of bouncing between 3rd and 4th. In hilly areas I can now stay in third instead of second. I am in 5th on the highway! I am changing gears much less often. Speedo error is now 2mph the other way, so 60 indicated is really 58. If I went to 35" tires speedo would be dead on and the car would be at stock rpms. Around town I will probably get much better mileage since I can stay in a higher gear. Highway may suffer since rpms will be higher in 5th, but if I am towing it will be better since I can stay in 5th with the trailer.

I have a 500 mile break in. Short 20 minute trips and then cool down. No heavy offroading or hard acceleration runs. After a couple thousand miles I will probably change the diff lube.

My gears, open carriers, new bearings front and rear, installation, lube, etc was a total of $1451. It would have been $2850 with ARB lockers.

I do not do any heavy wheeling and so I decided not to do lockers. If I go back in and do them it will cost me about $200 more in labor that I would have saved.

About the 35/super 35. The guy I talked to, Don, at Southern off Road Specialists was very helpful(he is the owner). He builds custom rock crawling rigs and is also a competition driver etc so he knows his stuff. He showed me 35 axles that were broken and some were 35's. He told me that in almost all cases a 35 that breaks is due to driver error. The general situation being that the tires are spinning on dirt and then hit rock/pavement and the sudden change in traction shears the axle. The other way it happens is when wheeling and a tire gets in the air and is spinning and then hits the ground. Lockers can help a lot. He recommends keeping a foot on the brake in these situations to modulate the wheel spin.
So if you have a 35 and are out in the dirt doing doughnuts watch the transitions to pavement.

The 44 can withstand this better since it has much greater diameter and more splines. You can get a new 44 with 4.56 gears and lockers (ox) already installed from Drivetrain direct for just over $2000. You will still have to pay for shipping, installation and you still need to do the front. Labor is cheaper since it bolts in and the shop does not have to tear into the 44 diff.

I have to say I have come a long way in understanding all of this since I got my TJ. I learned much here and on web sties and from Don at Southern.

If you are in Atlanta I would Highly recommend you get your work done at Southern Off Road Specialists. They had some incredible custom wheeling and crawling rigs in the shop. Many Wranglers of all vintages, and also Land Rovers.

youngturk · November 2002

After a month-long search for a lightly used, pre-owned, late model Wrangler, I decided to get a bone-stock 2003 SE Wrangler, in the Bright Silver Metallic with the Dark Slate Grey vinyl interior. The only option is AC, and as you might expect, I'm hunting around for a rear seat. Any leads would be appreciated, including whether a <2003 rear seat will fit. I only have the black brackets on my tub.

I really like my Jeep, and would like to extend my gratitude to the many posters who have answered different questions of mine over the last month or so.

P.S. - The Wrangler is my third car; I drive a 2001 Boxster to work, and my wife drives a 2001 Chevy Suburban LT 4x4.

YoungTurk

01r1 · November 2002

Thanks for the info!

oceantoad · November 2002

Kind of early, but I am looking for suggestions that I can forward to Santa.

My thoughts on what I would like are,

1. KC 6" Daylighter kit
2. Warn bumpers
3. Warn Xi series winch (8000 pound)
4. a decent air compressor
5. a puppy

Any thoughts on what else Santa could put under the tree?

yellowman · November 2002

True, college campuses in LA don't work like ones elsewhere. I went to grad school in Arizona, and over there you either lived near campus or you didn't. At UCLA, you can be near the campus and almost still need a shuttle to get to where you want to go - it's like a small city.

I think you run into security problems around colleges if you live in a fraternity neighborhood - then you get the 18 and 19 year olds who've had too much to drink or are being hazed more likely to mess with your vehicle. My neighborhood (Miracle Mile) is more older students and 20 & 30-somethings. Really, no area in LA is perfect. I couldn't believe it when I watched the new movie "Bowling for Columbine" and they showed people in Canada who don't lock their doors! (doors to their HOUSES, not their Jeep doors)

In any case, I'm determined to enjoy my Jeep how tsjay always says - the way I want it! Just have to take some extra precautions. After all...it looks so good, I don't blame them for wanting it! :-)

Speaking of looking good, while my Jeep was in the shop, unwashed, for 3 weeks, the black fender trim started to chalk and turn grey. I used some One Grand ERV (Exterior Rubber and Vinyl) Protectant on them and it worked great...It's amazing, but along with a simple wash, blackening those tires and fender trim REALLY will make your Jeep look like new! I got my One Grand online at:

http://www.carcareonline.com

yellowman

anonymous02 · November 2002

I know a lot of people in MA who don't lock their car or house.

tsjay · November 2002

CONGRATULATIONS! Good move on getting a NEW one, I think.

Be sure and tell us how ya like that new four cylinder engine. It's supposed to be peppier than the old 2.5.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

likalar · November 2002

Oceantoad writes:

<<My thoughts on what I would like are,

1. KC 6" Daylighter kit
2. Warn bumpers
3. Warn Xi series winch (8000 pound)
4. a decent air compressor
5. a puppy
Any thoughts on what else Santa could put under the tree? >>

Considering #5 above, item #4 should be a thick layer of newspaper.

Larry

twylie · November 2002

I always heard you should order your christmas list as follows:

1. a baby brother or sister
2. a pony
3. what you really wanted since your parents would feel guilty that #1 and #2 weren't going to happen and feel like they got off easy by getting whatever was #3.

Of course, as an adult, maybe you'd have to modify it a a bit!

1. sports car (ok, this won't work for Turk!)
2. speedboat
3. winch, and lights, etc.

-twylie

kelleyo · November 2002

My dad had it right.

He would get my grandmother (his mom) things like drill presses and chain saws for Christmas! Of course as she lived in a retirement community it was always funny to see the look on her face when she would open stuff like that! Even though she knew he would do this she was a good sport and played along. I will always remember her saying "Oh Ronald! I can't use that!".

Then of course she would give whatever it was to him...

I miss my grandma...

likalar · November 2002

I had tried to use the Edmund's "search" feature a couple of times for various Jeep subject matters, but got results that were WAY off. Today I realized (Duh!) I could click on "advanced search" and keep the searching pretty much confined to the Wrangler forum. Wow, you "regulars" have just about covered it all in the past couple of years. So, to any newcomers (like myself), check it out! There's a handful of people in here full of knowledge, great advice and great Jeep spirit. Thanks for all the great input!
Larry
P.S. I've had my "not quite new" Sport for only a couple of weeks, now and absolutely love it! It does the job I got it for (towing a boat) and a whole lot more. In fact, my car has been sitting idle for two weeks now, and my wife is wondering why I still need it. I thought I would use the Jeep only when I tow, but that seems to be not quite enough! So, here's a raised glass to all of you that answered my questions while I was shopping (and since then). Thanks!

rothgeb · November 2002

Hi All,

I am on market for 2002 or 2003 Jeep Wrangler (for my college son). I don't want to spent more than $25K drive-out price (TT&L included). Any suggestions on Model and/or Style. What should I look for on Jeep? besides 6 cly Auto, Hard Top. AM/FM CD Chgr Ctrl. I hate to shop and HATE to negotiate. Where (How) can I avoid all these unpleasant car buying experiences?

Thanks

tsjay · November 2002

I assume you mean you are looking for a NEW 2002 or 2003 Wrangler, right? You might not have a big selection on left over 2002's.

If you are buying outright, with no trade-in, then you have a nice easy job ahead of you. You can shop by phone, and all you have to do is get prices in relation to invoice. That way, it doesn't matter how the Jeep is equipped: you will pay an agreed upon amount over invoice. Obviously, a better equipped Jeep will cost more, because the invoice will be higher, but you will know what kind of deal to expect. Just get on the phone and ask several dealers how much they will sell you a Jeep for in relation to invoice.

If you are willing to order a Jeep from the factory, just spec it out the way you want it and get several prices from different dealers.

Be sure and check out the incentives that are available currently. I think the leftover 02's have 0% interest for 60 months, and maybe even the 03's have that too ( I have heard conflicting reports on that.)

Check out my buying experience as I tell about it on my Jeep's web page.

http://www.members.aol.com/tjoh298765/thelma.html

You can get invoice price right here in good old Edmunds, but keep in mind that Edmunds does not include the advertising fees, which are a legitimate line item cost on the invoice the dealer will show you. Actually, there will be two lines for ad fees on the invoice, one national and one regional. These charges are real and are paid by the dealer as part of the invoice cost. They vary by region, so I guess that's why they are not included on the Edmunds invoice pricing.

Be sure and post any further questions. We are here to help one another.

Welcome to the board!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

thebigkahuna · November 2002

Tom's advice is sound. I find internet dealing preferable to phone conversations however. Just email all of the local dealers in your area and tell them that you are an educated buyer looking for their "best price". My advice, DON'T pay a dollar over invoice. That may not be the easiest thing to do but timing is crucial. As always, buy at the end of the month and know all about pricing. As Tom suggests, look at Edmund's invoice pricing including options. It sounds like you can get a loaded Sport model. There were some minor changes made from 02 to 03 models. You have found the right place for advice. Do some research here and get back to us with any questions you may have and we will be more than happy to help.

mtngal · November 2002

I'm going to make some guesses and assumptions. You are buying for a college age son, so I would guess that he isn't a big off-roader (assumption because you don't bring it up). If that is correct, then look for an X model. It is cheaper than the Sport but still has the I6 engine. That won't have fog lights, but will he need them (I never needed them until I moved to the mountains). Depending on where you are, I might insist on A/C. I have only a hard top and it has never been off, but when I was in college, I would have far preferred a soft top. Final thing - and this is just a personal pet thing of mine - I think everyone should learn how to drive a manual tranny, so I'd get him the 5 speed. But that is just me (and most disagree with my point of view).

If he is getting into 4-wheeling, I would get a Sport, but that is much more money. I'm no good at negotiating either - I've just done my homework (looked up here at Edmunds what various packages and options cost) and gone into the dealership armed with those facts. I've walked out of numerous dealerships if they appeared to be playing games. I bought my Wrangler in '98 and haven't seriously priced them since (though I might get more interested soon, once it is paid off in April).

smurf6 · November 2002

I just ordered a Sport 5 speed that, when it arrives, will cost me a bit over $24,000 including taxes etc. The folks here were a tremendous help in helping me to understand and decide what options to go with. My Sport will be pretty loaded. I ended up spending $380, I believe, over invoice. I checked out several dealerships in my area for knowledge base, to drive different types of Jeeps, and to check out the service areas. I then sent requests via the internet to several for pricing as I also hate the negotiation phase. I did shop at the end of the month but for me the service area and the travel required for maintenance under warranty was a big consideration. So was the reputation of the dealership. I went with the closest 5 star dealership in the area. However, this may not be a consideration for you if you do your own maintenance or your son is going away to school.

Although you hate to shop, I would highly recommend either talking to people in your area who have some knowledge of the dealerships or going to visit them. Especially if you are going to have service done by the dealership. There was one dealership I eliminated right off the bat as I did not feel welcome.

Best of luck in your pursuit of a Jeep.

anonymous02 · November 2002

"I am on market for 2002 or 2003 Jeep Wrangler (for my college son)."

Dad? Is that you?

anonymous02 · November 2002

I thought college kids were supposed to buy an old beater and then come looking for "fix it" money? At least that's the way I remember it.

I think you'd be well off getting a 97-99 Sport for him. Then he can do any modifications he wants without it being quite so painful.

tsjay · November 2002

I bought my daughter a new Cavalier while she was in nursing school, and I bought my son a new Grand Am while he was in college. I actually bought my son a second new Grand Am with the understanding that he would make up the difference in the monthly payments and the insurance with money from the part time job he had while going to school.

The deal on all of three of these cars was that I would make the payments until the kids were out of school, and then it was their baby from that time forward.

My daughter chose to trade in the Cavalier on a Ford Explorer after she became an RN, and all I had to do was co-sign the note. She has made every payment so far, and the vehicle is almost paid off.

My son is through with school and is making his own car payment and paying for his own insurance, even though he still lives with us.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · November 2002

Well, it's Saturday, and I am sitting here at home instead of wheelin' at Turkey Bay. BUMMER!

Couldn't find anyone to hook up with, and I was afraid to drive all the way down there (70 miles) and take a chance on not finding another Jeep to hook up with.

Well, I am cleaning out some junk from the bedroom, so I guess I will get something accomplished anyway.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

stever · November 2002

Turkey Bay Turkey Day?

Steve, Host

tsjay · November 2002

Not on Turkey Day, Stever, but on the day after.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

wheelerman · November 2002

hey tom i'm back . i looked at some of your posts from the last tow weeks to see what you were up too. it is a lot of fun when you get you jeep way on it's side . the frist time i did it i thought the worst . but no roll over so it was all good. now every time we go out [me and my co driver] the jeep is laid almost on it's side one way or the other. it's not much fun driving on flat ground. and the photos i was talking about was the loast coast trip.i just never sow a post from you [ i think ] i'll be here everyday now. i did not go wheeling today either .i had to do some work on the jeep .my next time out will be the 29th too .i got to take a rest after last weekend. it was my frist time getting to be winched. the back end of my jeep feel of a trail .man did i almost poop my pants ! then later i was stuck on a muddy hill . my codriver had to dig for like a hour .every time i tried to back down it would started to slide sideways, so up i must go . [ i hate hills]

tsjay · November 2002

Welcome back! Don't desert us like that any more.

It's a real bummer not to get to wheel on Saturday! I think I am hooked up ok for next Saturday, though.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

kelleyo · November 2002

Dana 35 when it breaks:

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=286282

shill3 · November 2002

The broken-axle pics are pretty scary stuff, but all of these vehicles look modified (larger tires at least). Once we start to modify, aren't we asking for trouble? Without covering several bases, even larger tires will put the Jeep under different stresses than it was designed to handle. I'm hoping that keeping my Jeep stock and going easy off-road will save my D-35's.

On a less dramatic note, I could use some help with scratches. Since a lot of us go off-road, scratches on the doors, etc. seem part of the deal. But, has anyone had any luck finding a product that helps buff out the light scratches? Actually, mine are the result of a restless five year old and backpack zippers. They are too terribly deep, but because of the deep purple color of the Jeep, they show up enough to bug the crap out of me. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

twylie · November 2002

I've got a couple of things I use on fine scratches. I first try the Meguiars stuff. #1 clear coat scrub and #2 polish (the numbers are the steps in their 3 step consumer stuff found at Pep Boys, Advance, etc.). If that doesn't work I've used 3M fine cut rubbing compund. Between those products, I've been able to get out most fine to middling scratches in our cars. After you get the scratches out, be sure to apply a coat of wax. I've found keeping the Jeep waxed helps prevent scratches from tree branches at least. HTH.

-twylie

mtngal · November 2002

I agree that keeping the Wrangler waxed does help with most scratches from brush and trees. I don't worry too much about them, though. After all, it is a Jeep and should have some scratches! I do get mine waxed every so often - probably not as often as I would if I lived in a wetter climate.

rothgeb · November 2002

Hi Again,

First of all I would like to thank everyone, who responded to my earlier posting under "BASIC BUYER'S QUESTION". Please be patient with me while I am trying to do my homework.

What is the most basic WRANGLER should include? As a college kid, he will get AM/FM CD EXCH., Hardtop, 4x4 Auto Trans.

What is the best (polite) way to ask to see the invoice on the Wrangler?

Is it polite to ask via email, or in person? How do you make an offer based on invoice?

Thanks in advance

Rothgeb

stever · November 2002

Why not just print it out from here? (Click on New Cars and drill down to your model).

Steve, Host

tsjay · November 2002

Hey, I know what you mean. It is a bit awkward to ask for a copy of the invoice, but it has become such a common practice that dealers don't even blink when asked for one.

Like Steve said, you can get your invoice price right here in good old Edmunds. As I said in an earlier post, you need to keep in mind that the advertising fees, even though they are a legitimate item on the invoice, are not listed by Edmunds. The dealer invoice should be exactly in agreement with the Edmunds invoice, except there will be a line for a national ad fee and a line for a regional ad fee. I think the two ad fees amounted to a total of about $300 on my Jeep. The dealer really does have to pay these fees as part of his invoice cost.

So, go build yourself a Jeep in the new car invoice pricing section of Edmunds, and you will know what the invioce cost is, minus the ad fees.

Once you know what you want, then call several dealers and ask for their best deal with no trade-in would be on such a Jeep. Or, just call without even going over the options you want and all of that, and just simply ask the dealer what he will sell you a Wrangler for in realtion to invoice.

Good luck!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

twylie · November 2002

I got my pictures and info up on the Skid Row skids. Drop me a line if you have any other questions or need different pictures.

http://www.ewylie.com/jeep/offroad.htm#srengine

-twylie

chicagoland · November 2002

The Porsche Cayenne is taking on all off-road SUVs! Tell me what you think?

chicagoland · November 2002

chicagoland · November 2002

chicagoland · November 2002

Awesome! Be sure to turn up the volume!

http://www.thenewsmarket.com/Assets/previews/6148_3.asf

Chicagoland

stever · November 2002

I think you are looking for the Porsche Cayenne discussion. (Nice articulation, btw <g>)

Steve, Host

chicagoland · November 2002

Thanks Steve!

Chicagoland

twylie · November 2002

Good laughs! I'm sure it's a beast on the road and will eat up the ML and X5, but it's not an offroader. Personally I think it's a mistake for Porsche. Thanks for playing, though!

Some choice quotes from the Porsche site (this was on water and mud testing)

"...Team members stood on the bank and determined a plan for crossing. Depth and current were checked and a course plotted. Though the current was swift the water was no deeper than two feet. Just about the limit they were looking for. The first Cayenne entered the river. About midway, the rear end began to float. The muddy bottom offered little traction as the vehicle began to drift in the rising water. In fits and starts the intelligent all-wheel drive found what little traction there was and waded to shore, climbing over logs and up the crumbling bank the differential distributing torque to all wheels. Though the entire undercarriage of the vehicle was submerged the engine performed flawlessly."

The rest of the background on their testing has similarly absurd statements. I'm sure the full time 4wd system is pretty trick, but the marketing info seems to be geared toward people that want to got to the mall during the rainy season. Personally I don't want my vehicle to float in 2ft of water!

-twylie

wheelerman · November 2002

all i can say is drive it like you stole it !!

rothgeb · November 2002

Hi all,

Thanks to everyone for their input on my stupid questions....

I did my homework as suggested here, printed out the invoice, and emailed 4 dealers, indicating what I wanted, and their best price, specifically I wrote "NO PHONE CALLS PLEASE" within 24 hours, all 4 responded... on second email to all 4 dealers, I asked them to fax me their invoices, only 2 responded, other 2 gave some small talk, why they could not fax me the invoice. One dealer try to call me, after specifically indicating no phone calls.... You can guess where I have taken my business to....

I called the only dealer left on my list, made an appointment to placed the order, and vehicle to be delivered to University of Maryland at College Park Maryland, on my son's birthday. I am sure he will be happy.

Vehicle includes: Wrangler 03, Sports, 4 speed Auto, 42 RLE, AC, Dual Top, AM/FM CD Chr, Sentry Theft, Side Steps, 30" Tire, Tint... TT&L included for $23,568. (How did I do on price)...

Again I really appreciated your input and patience... I will let my son know about this site.

Thanks again,

Rothgeb

Jeep Wrangler

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy