Jeep Wrangler

tjray · February 2003

I have a set of ProComp 31x10.50 AT's on Weld Sidewinder wheels that I've run for a year now, and I'm very happy with them. The tires are just a little less than 31" tall and I don't have to downshift to pull most hills. The only issue I have is reverse gear is a taller ratio than 1st gear and it won't creep backward as slowly as forward. I commute about 18 miles on the highway and get over 20 mpg with 3.07 gears. My TJ seems to run better than it did when new, it's stock except for a K&N air filter, a fresh tuneup, and a larger airbox intake snorkel I made from salvage parts. Tjray

oceantoad · February 2003

I have a 2002 Sport that I ordered with the same tires and wheels that you have. The week after I picked it up I had 31x10.50 BFG Mud Terrains and 15x8 AR767 wheels put on. The AR767 wheels are an inch wider than your stock wheels and the tires do stick out a bit more. I don't remember what the back spacing was, but any tire store should be able to fix you up if you go with different wheels. So far I have not experienced any rubbing, but I have not done any real hard offroad type driving. Could be in the heavy stuff you would have rubbing.

My mileage is off and I am estimating it at about 6 miles per 100. The dealer has a gear that you can install that will adjust your speedometer for 30 inch tires, but no larger. I think the gear is 20 some odd dollars. It would put your speedometer back to where it would be close to being correct. Superlift also has a device that you can use to recalibrate your speedometer at I think around $160.

The new tires might be a bit louder because of the more aggressive tread, but it should not be that big a deal.

I have no complaints about the handling, but maybe just a bit of a rougher ride.

Remember mine are the BFG so I just know about them.

Still a happy camper.

kelleyo · February 2003

This page http://www.4lo.com/geartable.html is pretty good at illustrating performance hit/gain in terms of gas mileage or power as it relates to Gear ratio in the ring and pinion and tire size.

Based on this chart I chose to upgrade to 4.56 gears with my 33inch tires. This gives me slightly better performance at the cost of some gas mileage. Since I tow a utility trailer on the highway my mileage is actually better since I can stay in 5th gear now!

If I ever decide to do more lift and go with 35's I would then be back at stock perfomance.

Finally your speedo will be off. With 4.56 and 33's and stock speedo tooth gear I was showing 56 but actually travelling 65! NOT GOOD.

I tried one of these: http://www3.mtco.com/bry/SpeedoError/CalcSpeed.htm

It will give you some idea but I found that the changes are not linear and are only accurate at certain speeds.

The best bet is to go to a speedo shop. They calibrated my speedo in about 30 minutes. Now at 60 it reads 62. That is more like it! Cost about $50 which will more than save my butt from a ticket!

Of course, If I ever go to 35's I will have to re-calibrate again...

Hope this helps.

jutah · February 2003

Hi All,

I'll be buying my first Wrangler very soon. It will be an 03 SE. My question is I have never driven stick b4, Am I going to really screw up my new Jeep or should it be able to take some newbie abuse? Also would you all recommend a back seat? I really wouldn't use it much.

Thanks,

Jutah

mac24 · February 2003

The answer to both questions could be perhaps, or maybe, or it depends, or maybe not.

Seriously, get someone to teach how to drive stick so that you don't abuse it.

If you order it without a rear seat you can always add one later if you need it. Or, if you order one with a rear seat you can always take it out if you don't need it!

Best I can do I'm afraid.

:-)

tidester · February 2003

Try renting a car with a stick for a week (after a lesson!) - maybe a couple of different vehicles. You should pick it up pretty quickly!

tidester, host

geepers · February 2003

Go find some out-of-the-way spot and practice. Some place with no stress level involved. Like a big empty parking lot. You'll have it down in no time. I can't stand driving automatics.

Long time ago, I couldn't find a Wrangler that came without the rear seat. The dealers in my area just didn't order them without one. It's a cute little seat and flips up out of the way with no trouble. I'd get one.

jutah · February 2003

Thanks all for the replies. Would any of you reccomend a lesson at a driving school?

Thanks again,

jutah

stever · February 2003

Depends on whether you want to stay friends with the friend teaching you :-)

It's not all that difficult to get the basics down - and you're more likely to embarrass yourself by stalling in an intersection than hurting the Jeep by grinding the gears occasionally. But it's a short learning curve, even if you link up with a friend for coaching.

Steve, Host

jutah · February 2003

Hi all,

After reading through some threads I noticed jeepwarehouse.com mentioned. Out of curiosity I thought I would check it out. Their quote seems to be a lot better then what I have been receiving? Is this for real or am I not getting something?

Thanks,

jutah

mac24 · February 2003

Yes, they're for real. You'll also find that it's not too hard to get other dealers to match their quote. If you want a good price you'll have to work at it a little.

tjray · February 2003

Woo Hoo! 6 to 10 inches of virgin snow here in N.E. Oklahoma! Been out all morning, just came home to refuel ourselves, then we gonna Go4lo and head for the hills. I hope Tsjay is havin' half as much fun as we are! Jeep anytime,anywhere- Tjray

jutah · February 2003

Hi mac24,

Thanks for your reply

, I have a UBS cert, which I was told could get me $100 over invoice. After looking at the invoice prices here at Edmunds and the Invoice prices the dealers are telling me there is a fair differecne in the base price? Are these dealers trying to pull something on me? All the dealers I have been dealing with seem to be giving me around the same prices though?

Thanks again,

jutah

jutah · February 2003

Hi Everybody

,

I was wondering what is the average profit a dealer should make? That way I know about what I should be able to get?

Thanks,

jutah

mac24 · February 2003

Look around some more on Edmunds for the information you need..... it's all there.

I don't know what a UBS cert is, but you won't get the best price from the dealers until they know that you're going to write a check if the price is right. If you can't get a good deal close to home, go with jeepwarehouse.com and have it delivered to a local dealer.

jutah · February 2003

Hi everybody,

Sorry to bug with all these questions, but I am very close to buying! I have a rebate question. A lot of the dealers have been pushing me to buy by the 28th b\c that is when the $1000 rebate is spose to end. Should I worry about this or will just anther one come around?

Thanks again,

jutah

barresa62 · February 2003

I bought my Wrangler on 1/4/03. The following Monday (1/6/03), the $1000 rebate was supposed to end. Since they are still offering it I would say that there's a strong chance that it will continue after the 28th as well. Just my .02. :-)

Stephen

tsjay · February 2003

Hi! I have been out of town, or I would have replied sooner.

It might help you to read about my buying experience. Not that I am the world's best car trader, but I sure used to get a lot of practice!

You can get invoice price from here in Edmunds, but, remember, they do not include ad fees, which are a LEGITIMATE part of the invoice. They vary by region, and I guess that's why they are not included in Edmunds. They can amount to $300 or more, depending on where you live.

Welcome to the board, and good luck in getting your Jeep. Stick with us.

You are wise to get the five speed, since you will be getting the four cylinder engine. It will be peppier with the five speed.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

P.S. Guess it would help to include the link, huh?

http://members.aol.com/tjoh298765/thelma.html

shill3 · February 2003

Do go for the stick, you'll love active driving. Also, once you get the level stuff down, take it to a quiet neighborhood with some hills and practice stopping and starting while on an uphill incline. A few goes and you should get it down easy enough.

Do get the back seat! You'd be surprised how many friends will want a ride on a nice summer day! It's another good point about owning a Wrangler!

jutah · February 2003

Thanks all your respones have been great! I have been doing crazy research here at Edmunds and all over the Net. This is my first time buying a new car and I really don't want to get ripped. You all have helped a lot

I received a quote from Jeepwarehouse and like I said above I ws amazed at their price. I went to two local dealers today with this quote and they basicly laughed at me

. I know I was told above that jeepwarehouse is the real deal, but has anyone bought a new jeep from them and can tell me about their experience? Also how long it took to deliver.

Thanks again,

jutah

twylie · February 2003

I used jeepwarehouse.com as a bargaining tool and my local dealers and while you might have been laughed at, the last laugh will be yours when your new Jeep gets delivered to one of those local dealerships that turned you away...

email me offline (addy in my profile) and I'll point you to a site where you can get some first hand reviews of using jeepwarehouse.

-twylie

oceantoad · February 2003

We don't get much in the way of snow in central Texas, but we do get ice storms. Got one going on right now. We might get between a 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch of ice by the morning. The base turned us loose early and we all went out and started scraping ice off our vehicles. A woman I work with was going to help me and started to scrape the side windows on my soft top. I got her to stop just as she was getting started. That could have been a disaster.

The Wrangler only slid 3 times on the way home.

Cleaning off the oil lanterns just in case.

Still a happy camper.

rjsboston · February 2003

Hey everyone,
Just wondering what kind of insurance premiums I can expect to pay on a used 2001 or 2002 Wrangler Sport. I'm 24 year old male from NJ with a clean driving record (no tickets or accidents). There will be no lien on the vehicle so I'm not sure if I'd get full coverage. I currently pay 1200 a year for full coverage on a 97 plymouth neon that I have been driving since college but I think I am getting ripped off there. I was also told insurance may be cheaper on a wrangler because insurance companies consider it a "utility vehicle." Don't know how much truth there is in that statement though. I'd appreciate any info anyone could give me. Thanks in advance.

Randy

div2 · February 2003

All the information I've seen lists the TJ's insurance costs as average. That said, you're a 24 year old guy who has the horrible misfortune of living in NJ, so you will get hosed no matter what you drive...

shill3 · February 2003

I moved from a 99 KIA Sephia (sedan) to a 99 TJ and my insurance dropped! I do not remember the full cost, but I know it is less than $1200. Try playing with your deductable, that might help.

Otherwise, I have heard only bad things regarding NJ auto insurance. Good luck.

dirty97 · February 2003

Hi,

I was recently down in Corolla, NC and had a great time running my '97 4.0 Sport through the sand, water, mud...(you get the idea). By the time I left to go back home, it was "missing" and threatening to stall. It did this all the way home to Northern VA. and continues to do it to this day. Before I take it in to the shop, I was hoping to get an idea of what I did to it. (It ran perfectly until the trip to the beach.)

Thanks all-
Stephen & his limping dirty97

tsjay · February 2003

Don't know how long it has been since the Jeep was in the water and mud, but one simple thing to check would be to take the distributor cap off and wipe off any moisture that you might find in there. (Inside the top of the cap, where the contacts are for each cylinder)

You showing a check engine warning? I think the 97's allow you to read the error code if you turn the key on and off a couple times. Maybe it tells you that in your owners manual. If you get the error code number, post it here, and maybe someone can tell you what that particular code is for.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal · February 2003

Well, the Taco did it - it wouldn't start Friday when we were leaving for Vegas. So it is now still sitting in the driveway as we drive the Noble Black Steed for our daily driver. It would be anyway, since we've had snow the last 2 nights (hooray! what fun! just wish it wouldn't melt so fast). I really don't think it is a big deal - I think the battery has enough charge to crank the starter but not turn it over.

Now my other half is seriously considering going down to 1 vehicle, so we would trade both the Taco and the Noble Black Steed and get a new Wrangler. Guess I'd better get busy looking at Wrangler info again, instead of other vehicles. I won't go without a Wrangler, whether it is our current one or a new one, it doesn't matter. But I gotta have a Wrangler in my life...

nolid5 · February 2003

No cure for Wrangler addiction. How bout a nice new "rubi"?

stever · February 2003

Didn't I read that Wrangler incentives are currently 0% for 5 years right now too?

Steve, Host

lvchef · February 2003

Has anyone other than myself heard of the LATCH system for baby car seats?? Well it was mandate by the Feds for any vehicle built after Sept 2, 2002. It is a new way of securing Baby car seats to the vehicle. I called my local Jeep dealer and they were completely clueless to what I was talking about. I explained it and they still didn't know anything. I got a call this AM and they were like sorry we don't know anything. Well the funny thing is that Daimler Chrylser is sponsoring this program and are converting vehicles that dont have this LATCH system. What should I do?? Should I call Jeep and pressure there consumer help line??
The reason that I'm looking into this is that in 4 more months Im gonna be a Dad and want the most secure possible system for the baby car seat.

shill3 · February 2003

I have been able to plob our car seats into the back using the shoulder belts. These are not the newer seats, but they are still held securely. Problem is that if you only have one kid, you want them in the middle and with the Wranger, there isn't a middle belt. I put in a lap belt for ours, it's pretty easy.

I know that this is not the safest alternative, but let's face it, if you are in a serious accident in a vehicle that basically has no sides to it, how safe are you going to be anyway?

shill3 · February 2003

How does your Noble Black Steed run? If you are happy with it, why trade it for a new car payment and higher insurance?

01r1 · February 2003

Mtngal- You're getting a Rubi, aren't you?

LVChef- Yes, I've heard of the LATCH (Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren), I've got them in my Honda Pilot. My 02 Wrangler doesn't have them either and I think they would be a big improvement. I've put car seats in the back of the TJ using the old-fashion seat belt method and that didn't work that well.

If you can get DC to retro your TJ for LATCH, do it!

The one problem with normal car seats in the back of the TJ is you can't pull the seat belt all the way out for lock-up mode that allows you to ratchet that belt real tight to hold the car seat. I know, in an accident, the belt will lock like they say. But, in real life, when driving along (especially off-road) that loose belt holding the car seat lets the seat move around and almost slip right off the permanent seat. I've had to reach back and re-position the car seat several times.

Let us know if you get the LATCH installed, I for one would also like to get it done.

-Pete

div2 · February 2003

If you have the Add-A-Trunk, just wrap the little demon in bubble wrap and stick it in the back. Just be sure and leave the kid's nose and mouth uncovered.

mtngal · February 2003

I'll definitely look at a rubi, but not sure it will fit our needs for a comfortable long distance daily commuter car.

The main reason why we would be trading the Noble Black Steed in with the Taco is finances. I'm still around $3,000 on the wrong side of the note for the Taco (it is a 2000 and has over 98,000 miles on it - would be over 100,000 now if it had started Friday). The Noble Black Steed would help compensate for the upside down note on the Taco, even though it is a '98 and has over 109,000 miles on it. I had been planning on keeping the Noble Black Steed and replacing the Taco in about 9 months with something like a Subie, but I really hate the Taco, and having 1 vehicle would be cheaper than having 2.

dirty97 · February 2003

Thanks for the tip.

Stephen & the dirty97

tsjay · February 2003

Let us know how you come out on the problem with your Jeep. The moisture in the distributor that I mentioned as a possibility could explain the missing, but I can't see how that would cause the fast idle.

Good luck.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

jutah · February 2003

I talked to three dealers today and they told me that the 0% for 5 was only good for the Grand Cherokee.

jutah

stever · February 2003

My bad - read the article wrong. Thanks Jutah!

Steve, Host

jutah · February 2003

Hi all,

After a week and a half of dealing with numerous dealers I finaly put a deposit down on my first jeep. I have wanted one since I got my license, but the insurance was always too high. Now that I am 26 the rates have dropped considerably.

I will have a new Kahki 03 SE with the back seat and AC. I'll have to get my own sound system put in. Any thoughts? Finding one like this was very hard. It seems not to many dealers want to deal with SEs b\c there is not too much profit in them. I would have got one from jeepwarehouse, but my car died on me and I was desperate.

I was wondering two things.

#1. An SE has command part time 4 wheel drive. What does that mean. Is it like fake 4 wheel drive?

#2. Since I couldn't find one with the 23N my back will have no carpet. Is it easy to find a place to put carpet down?

Thanks,

jutah

mac24 · February 2003

1: No,it's not fake. It's real 4wd that you engage when you need it. Study the owners manual and the video (if they still provide one) for details of when and how to use it.

2: You can buy a custom carpet set from many places on-line. I don't think that you'll need anyone to fit it for you.

tsjay · February 2003

CONGRATS! Welcome to the Jeep family!

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that khaki color!!!

The four wheel drive system on Jeeps is a "part time" system, which means it is supposed to be used only part time. It is NOT supposed to be used on dry pavement. That will cause binding in the drive train and excessive tire wear.

Use four wheel drive only when the tires have the opportunity to slip some.

Any kind of indoor/outdoor carpet should be OK, if you want carpet at all.

Once again, congratulations, and be sure to post some pics of that baby in the gallery.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

barresa62 · February 2003

I had the stock stereo w/cassette in my 03'Sport. I bought the Alpine CD/stereo model 7874 from Circuit city for 199.99 & free installation. It's probably one the best decks for the money. It rated 4.6 or 4.7 out 5 by people that have bought it. Even with the stock speakers, it sounds great. It's certainly much better than factory. Eventually, I will upgrade the rear speakers.

Stephen

mtngal · February 2003

Congrats on the new Jeep - you will love it! All Wranglers have the same 4x4 system, so yours is the same as a Sahara or my Sport. As tsjay says, it locks the front and back wheels together so they turn exactly the same. If you are going around a curve the front and rear will not take the same path (look at treads left when you turn a corner in fresh snow) so the front and back tires aren't turning at the same speed (I remember watching an old fashioned LP album in a science class to demonstrate this - do they still do that?). If you are on a paved road with 4x4 on, the tires won't be able to travel at different speeds, which causes all kinds of problems. If the road is icy, dirt or slippery, then the tires will be able to slip a bit, and you are OK.

I also love that Khaki color.

Hey, oceantoad - how are things in your neck of the woods? Are you surviving all that ice?

geepers · February 2003

You can find more aftermarket stuff for your Jeep than you can ever buy. I'm thinking one advantage to a carpet might be to cut down on the tire noise from the road. The catalog I have shows a deluxe carpet for the entire vehicle for $140. It's fit to your Jeep so no cutting involved. Do a search and you'll find tons of Wrangler stuff.

tsjay · February 2003

It has taken me all week to finally get around to telling you guys about our Hot Springs trip, but here goes.

Last Friday, Ross Allen, Thelma Jame, and yours truly headed out for Hot Springs, Arkansas, to go wheelin' at the Superlift ORV Park. We left a few minutes after 8 AM and got to the motel in Hot Springs about 5 PM. It was a drive of 445 miles.

Our timing was good, because we had no more than checked in when Alan (eARS) pulled up. He had driven down from his home in Joplin, Missouri.

Larry (Larry18) got a later start and stopped by about 9:45 PM. He had dropped off his wife and daughter at their motel by that time, after driving down from his hometown of Checotah, Oklahoma.

The next morning, we hooked up with seven other Jeeps at Superlift, so we had ten Jeeps in the group. The other guys were all from the Memphis, Tennesse, area, including David, who was the organizer of this outing.

Talk about FUN! We had a blast. We spent all day Saturday wheelin'.

It was the very first time for Alan, while Larry had some prior experience from his Colorado high country Jeepin' and from last year's Camp Jeep. Both of those guys did great! Their Jeeps were stock, except for 31" tires, but they went through some pretty tough places.

If you would like to see some pics, go to http://itsajeep.org and then to the photo gallery there. I go by the same username there, tsjay, if you want to look at my albums. Be sure to check out Alan's and Larry's albums too.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

oceantoad · February 2003

Survived the ice storm of 2003. They closed the post for two days. I didn't have anything to do except play on the internet. Didn't loose power for over three days like the last time.

Researched new vehicles for buying 2 years down the road. Took me three years of researching to buy the Wrangler so it is time to start. I was hot on the Scrambler, but I think I am backing off from that. Am leaning toward a Liberty and keeping the Wrangler instead of trading the Wrangler for a Scrambler.

The 4th ID will be pulling out at any time. I can see picking up another large dog from one of the departing soldiers and the Liberty would be good for 2 or 3 dogs. Last week the paper had a Bull Mastiff and a Great Dane for free. Soon they will be dumping lots of dog and cats as the division leaves. Same thing happened during Desert Storm.

Still a happy camper.

huck6 · February 2003

Finally, snow in Northern AZ. I took the kids out into the woods for some sledding. The snow was not bad on the forest service roads, about a foot in places, but not too tracked out.

Had a near miss as a Durango hogged the road and started sliding towards us as it passed. Luckily my Jeep was nimble enough to plow through the snow in the ditch and miss his slide. He missed us by about 5 inches, only just missing my side mirror. All of it in that dreadful slow motion of winter accidents.

Man am I glad I drive a Jeep. She popped right out of the ditch and kept on going. The Durango sat still for a minute before moving on. I guess his wife was having some words with him.

Many thanks to the good Lord and a champ TJ!

jutah · March 2003

Hey evereybody,

Thanks for the confidence

I am picking it up tonight! I'll get some pics and post them. Thanks again!

jutah

Jeep Wrangler

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