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Mazda 5 vs Kia Rondo
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Comments
See you there!
btw, slightly off topic, but the Standard 5 Sport without side sills (CM5 did they add those for 2008?) isn't too low to the ground. I can attest to that after an um.. incident involving one of those concrete parking stop blocks... Not sure if I have any undercoating or paint left on the frame rails though.
My 1998 Legacy wagon, with a 137 hp 4 cyl, was rated to tow the same amount, and my 1998 Escort wagon, with a 110 hp 4 cyl, is rated to tow 1,000 lbs.
Why then, with a 182 hp V6, is the Rondo only rated for 2,000 lbs and the 153 hp Mazda5 not rated to tow at all? Are the Legacy and Escort ratings overstated (unlikely) or is it just that the Rondo and M5 are underrated for towing? Hmmm.
Anyone know?
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/102426/article.html
...Maybe in this context, door shape and entry/egress are two usually overlooked reasons so many people have opted for two-box cars, such as minivans and even SUVs, or at least those not requiring stepladders to enter. Mazda obviously thought that some buyers would recognize the benefits of sliding doors and included them in the clever Mazda5, clearly thinking outside the box of conventional design. That is exactly what we need: more outside-the-box thinking for ways to get us inside the box.
Source:
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/FREE/361543080/1028/- FREE
The family sedan and wagon aren’t the hot sellers they once were, but there are quite a few new models that are selling quickly, like the Chevy Malibu and Mazda5. The Kia Optima is a surprise on the list, but it also had significant incentives in June as dealers prepared for the upcoming 2009 model, which goes on sale later this year. Check out the losers and luxury winners and losers below.
Top 10 Sedan, Hatchback and Wagon Movers
* 2008 Toyota Prius: 4 days
* 2009 Toyota Camry Hybrid: 10 days
* 2009 VW Jetta SportWagen: 13 days
* 2008 Kia Optima: 23 days
* 2008 Chevy Malibu: 24 days
* 2008 Chevy Impala: 25 days
* 2008 Honda Accord: 25 days
* 2008 Nissan Altima Hybrid: 25 days
* 2008 Mazda5: 28 days
* 2008 Pontiac G8: 30 days
Source:
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/07/movers-and-lo-3.html
June 2008: 1,416 units vs 1,096 for June 2007
YTD 2008: 11,977 vs 8,309 for 2007
Rondo
June 2008: 2,172 vs 4,139 for June 2007
YTD 2008: 15,974 vs 9,996 for 2007
1.
Visited Mazda dealer and played just with Mazda5 seats for 15 min:
Adjusted seats to the BEST possible sitting for myself (6ft tall) in ALL rows (1,2,3)
The result:
1 row - good
2 row- so-so : problem with feet (does not fit well under 1 row seat)
3 row - bad : feet just does not feet under 2nd row seat
There is solution but for only one foot - to stuck it between
2nd row seats (other foot has to be cut of to be comfortable)
So Mazda5 3d row - for kids ONLY.
2.
Visited KIA dealer and played just with Rondo seats for the same 15 min:
Adjusted seats to the BEST possible sitting for myself (6ft tall) in ALL rows (1,2,3)
The result:
1 row - good
2 row- good
3 row - Ok : head is very close to ceiling
So Rondo 3d row - Ok for 6ft adults
IMPORTANT: the main thing is to readjust ALL rows to achieve good result in each row
BIG cars as mainstream are dead (only for that ones who do not care about price of gas) - which is well confirmed by almost funeral state of GM/Ford, etc
It's actually very happy time for US - FINALY to open eyes and see what a mess
we created in sense of cars we drive
Exactly!
I could have bought an 07 Dodge Caravan but I chose to look at the Mazda5 and Rondo. I bought a Rondo V6, since it is big enough for my family's needs but not too big.
Good point, Uzv!
. I did not see that as the "main point", but I understand.
Keep on mind that the models did NOT show up in 2008 in NA, but is interesting to see how trends change. I bought my first one in 2005 before the gas craze and the theme was more like a "small people mover on a budget", nothing else. My wife is originally from Europe where petrol was already pricey so for her was perfect.
Now with a $4+ a gallon everybody is turning around to buy them and they are selling well. Don't take me wrong but I see now more people sacrificing comfort by cramping up these cars due to the price and better gas mileage, which is natural.
I think Mazda and KIA had just luck on the early timing when bringing these models to the NA market
Again, people are buying them to save $ because of gas but they're really saving because of the lower purchase price, which has nothing to do with the price of gas. In fact, these little cars are being less discounted due to the high gas prices. Anyway, just some thoughts. I just wonder why the same people who say they're buying small because of the gas weren't so worried about the total purchase price when gas was cheap.
It's even more strange to me to hear someone going from a $40K SUV to a $20K economy car to save gas. They don't even mention the fact that they just saved $20K on the purchase prices, but are more interested in the $20 bucks a week they'll save in gas! Pretty strange logic to me!
Hybrid Vehicles Not Best Value According to Edmunds.com
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080- 625005404&newsLang=en
Also it looks like Mazada/Rondo does not have really good MPG - but I think
they can improve it. I'm less optimistic about MPG improvement for big minivans
as they had a lot of time to do it with no result. I'm speaking about old fashion improvement (without hybrid). Diesel will also big help as it takes about 30%
less fuel.
About less comfort in smaller cars - yes we have to give up comfort that we
can not afford.
I think next on funeral list are big houses (and actually not so big like 2500-3000
sq.ft.) as people will not be able to pay heating and electric /AC bills
June 2008 - 1,281 vs 1,156 for June 2007
YTD 2008 - 7,848 vs 6,398 for June 2007
Rondo
June 2008 - 935 vs 830 for Jun 2007
YTD 2008 - 5,170 vs 3,445 for June 2007
for US readers keep in mind that the US market is 9.5 times larger than Canada
they can improve it.
My 2008 Mazda 5 gets 29-31 MPG in mixed city/suburban driving on every tank. Including the first two tanks, the lifetime average (~6500 miles) is above 28 MPG -- with only one highway trip of 90 miles. Regardless of what you think, I see a relatively safe, six-seat, 3500 lb., automatic transmission, sub-$20k, 30 MPG vehicle as doing pretty well.
I'm less optimistic about MPG improvement for big minivans
as they had a lot of time to do it with no result.
My 1996 Dodge Grand Caravan averaged around 20 MPG on my annual 3000 mile trip. It's highest ever mileage was 23 MPG -- (later model years did a bit better). My 2007 Toyota Sienna averaged 25.5 MPG on last year's trip and 25.8 MPG this year -- in all cases, the trips included several hundred miles of stop and go traffic in major cities. The high for the Sienna on this year's trip was 29.0 MPG -- topped-off and hand calculated over 400 miles.
For comparison, the Sienna weighs 4200 lbs, vs. the Dodge's 3700 lbs, it (Sienna) has 13 cu ft more cargo volume, an additional seat, 109 HP more, 8 more air bags and does 0-60 in under 7 seconds.
So, more power, more weight, better safety AND almost a 30% improvement in mileage. Not bad...
Drive train efficiency gains cause corresponding percentage improvements in cars and minivans equally.
Diesel will also big help as it takes about 30%
less fuel.
I filled-up this weekend for $3.739 (87 Octane). Diesel was $5.139 at the same station. Dollars/mile, matter to me, not MPG. At these prices, diesel offers no advantage. At a smaller percentage spread, it might, depending on the difference in purchase price between a diesel and gasoline engine, the mileage difference and the difference in repair costs.
Spec Manual - 22/28
Auto - 21/27
Is your model manual ? You say you get 30 MPG per mile on average.
It's rather unusual when people exceed spec.
You also exceeded Sienna spec MPG of 17/23.
By the way do you know if MPG is calculated with FULL load or other way ?
I still do not see substantial change in spec MPG for big minivans - during many years they stay mostly the same for the same models.
Actual Mileage will vary with options, driving conditions, driving habits and [the] vehicle's condition. Results reported to [the] EPA indicate that the majority of vehicles with these estimates will achieve between 17 and 25 mpg in the city and between 22 and 32 mpg on the highway.
For the Sienna, the estimates on my 2007 sticker were 19/26 with reported ranges of 16-22 city and 22-30 highway (on vehicles with similar ratings).
2008 testing is different than 2007 and before, so a 2007 and 2008 Sienna will have different EPA ratings, even though they are essentially the same vehicle. See: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/FEG2000.htm I'm sure you can find more details on the testing there.
My Mazda5 is an automatic.
For my trip mileages on the Sienna, I had 5 people in the van, and enough cargo to require fully inflated air bag helpers in the rear suspension (~1000 lbs.) Last year I had 3 bikes and a bike trailer hanging from the back as well.
My actual fuel economy has exceeded EPA estimates in all but two of my vehicles in the last 20+ years. I don't find it unusual.
I filled-up this weekend for $3.739 (87 Octane). Diesel was $5.139 at the same station. Dollars/mile, matter to me, not MPG. At these prices, diesel offers no advantage. At a smaller percentage spread, it might, depending on the difference in purchase price between a diesel and gasoline engine, the mileage difference and the difference in repair costs. "
Diesel would not show an advantage at those prices, but I think you found a station with extreme prices; extremely low for gas and extremely high for diesel. Today's National average is $4.04 for gas and $4.80 for diesel. Using those figures, diesel cost approx 19% more than gas so if you got 30% more miles from each gallon, your cost per mile for diesel would be cheaper than gas. Of course as you pointed out you would also have to factor in having the extra expense of the diesel engine option and the downside of finding and using diesel fuel.
John
If shifted manually, and if the tires are kept from spinning, a sub-7 second time is possible.
6.6 seconds
http://www.autos.com/autos/vans/minivans/acceleration
7.2 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/vans/2007_hyundai_entourage_- vs_2007_nissan_quest_2008_dodge_grand_caravan_2007_toyota_sienna_2007_honda_odys- sey_comparison_test+page-5.html
video in the low 7's, with comments of 6.9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gadUoJnEzfs
Other examples are out there.
Test drive one. You'll be surprised.
Anyhow, regardless, check the Mazda5 acceleration for a 5MT, not bad for a 4cyl people mover.
Mazda5 Performance
Engine 2.3 I-4
Transmission 5-Spd Manual
Drive System fwd
Acceleration Summary
Acceleration, 0-30 MPH 0-30 MPH: 2.85
Acceleration, 0-40 MPH 0-40 MPH: 4.49
Acceleration, 0-50 MPH 0-50 MPH: 6.33
Acceleration, 0-60 MPH 0-60 MPH: 8.53
Source:
http://www.intellichoice.com/reports/vehicleReport/vehicle_nmb/17149/section/spe- cs/type/used/2006/Mazda/Mazda5
Also, some very old Mazda5 video, makes me laugh a little, but great handling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU4paH8qcQ8
And a fast Rondo (Carens). 150mph, 230kmh :surprise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6hgerWf0yc
It is funny seeing people doing this to these type of cars, but hey
However, for the most part, my 0-60 times, on both vehicles, are in the 10-15 second range. I'd rather get better mileage, have a transmission last an extra 50,000 miles, and have my tires last longer than best a car that I already know I can beat, or prove that I that can take the same curve at the vehicle's limits time after time -- we all get old eventually.
I took my last Mazda to almost 250,000 miles on the original clutch. I sold the car shortly before that point, but the clutch was still working like new.
* Frontal Driver Rating: 5 stars
* Frontal Passenger Rating: 5 stars
* Side Driver Rating: 5 stars
* Side Rear Passenger Rating: 4 stars
* Rollover 2 Wheel Drive Rating: 4 stars
Chance of rollover 14%
Static Stability Factor 1.30
Dynamic Test Result No-tip*
Drive FWD
Tire Size P205/50R17
2008 KIA Rondo 4-DR w/SAB
* Frontal Driver Rating: 5 stars
* Frontal Passenger Rating: 5 stars
* Side Driver Rating: 5 stars
* Side Rear Passenger Rating: 4 stars
* Rollover 2 Wheel Drive Rating: 4 stars
Chance of rollover 13%
Static Stability Factor 1.32
Dynamic Test Result No-tip*
Drive FWD
Tire Size P205/60R16
Source:
http://www.safercar.gov/portal/search?model=7828
Some videos:
Frontal crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qPGDrLIsww
Side impact: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWojbZkAJ0A
__________________
No news on the V-6 yet engine yet, but if it follows Optima form, the hp will go to 190, an 8 hp increase.
Just use the steptronic feature and get the best of both worlds I've had a lot of manuals over my driving career, but would not go back - besides the wife would never drive one..................
Rondo - 2,556 units
As per the CR-V, yes, the MT was dropped, but because it is an SUV I believe. I tested the 05, one of the last models with 5MT, but my wife thought it was too tall and jumpy (very SUV or small truck if you ask), and we only test drove it because of that, because it had manual transmission.
Anyway, that is why I mentioned the new target market. I'm sure there are some people out there disappointed with models like the Rondo SX concept that only was shown as automatic.
As per wives, manual transmission topped the list of mine when buying a Mazda5, she can drive automatic by need (i.e. rental), but cannot stand it, don't ask why .
Tiptronic is a nice thing but it cannot compared to a modern manual transmission like the Mazda one, very soft clutch and close ratio gearing, precise shifting and a lot of fun to drive...
I would suggest you start a new thread with a suggested title of "Rondo 2.4L vs 2.7L" for example or something similar as I am sure that this is a pretty common question amongst prior owners, I know it was for me. Also that way you question would get a more direct response.
My friend came in 6 cyl Rondo to Cape Code Nikkerson State Park (90miles from Boston) from Toronto.
Park is located on relativley steep hills and it is very twisty 4 miles from Park entrance to our camp on the very top.
With 4 adults (3 - 6ft 200 pouns, 1 - 5ft 6in 150pouns) + 3 kids 15 years old (you know they are not very small in US) Rondo (6cyl) did not have any problems going these 4 miles down and up with 7 people mentioned above.
Handling was Ok (but nothing special), power was more then enough.
Brakes - no complaints. No feeling that suspension was stressed or overloaded.
Then trip from Park to Provincetown - 30 miles one way by local hwy with the same load of 7 people at 50 mph.
Park to Provincetown trip:
Position-Behind the wheel: No problems passing other cars, handling is predictable (but nothing special). Ride is steady and even. Brakes are fine. Driver seat it comfortable. Visibility - very good (much better then in sedan). No road noise complaints. 2 15 years kids in back (3d row) seats - no complaints
Provincetown to Park trip:
Position- Back in 3d row (I'm 6 ft tall, 200 pouns): Comfort- Ok. Amazingly good
visibility side and forward. Road noise - no complaints. Ride is steady and even.
2nd and 3d rows - Very comfortable headrests (also noticed by one Honda Accord owner). 40 min 3d row trip for me (6ft) was fine but longer trips will not be comfortable. So for in town (or short out of town) trips Rondo looks good for 7 adults.
PS: When we arrived in Provicetown locals were a little bit surprised by how many
people managed to get out of relaively small car.
Rondo - 1,066, YTD - 6,235
I like that monthly highlight, let's hope it does not change soon :P
Regardless, look at the numbers for the Mazda5 vs. the Rondo so far:
2008 Mazda5: 9.4 (40 reviews)
2008 Rondo: 8.0 (6 reviews)
2007 Mazda5: 9.1 (53 reviews)
2007 Rondo: 8.8 (71 reviews)
What about those 2008 Rondo fans? Put those numbers up :shades:
Note:
Population of Mexico is 3 times bigger than Canada
Using several internet sites, especially Edmunds, we had narrowed our initial choices (at least on paper) to Mazda 5 Touring or Grand Touring or Rondo EX, most likely 2008 to get a deal. I expected to either like both or not much like either, but the test drive was revealing. Without slamming it too much, the problem with the Rondo was that some of the things that looked good on paper, weren't that great in person, as far as we were concerned. It didn't help that the dealer apparently wasn't interested in selling, but we didn't let that affect our views. Enough of that.
The Mazda dealer had 2 Mazda 5 2008 models left (and no 2009's in yet), the one we got and a GT Stormy Blue, fully decked out. The only thing we wanted in the GT was bluetooth, but wasn't worth the price difference. (Not a big fan of leather). Plus, that shade of blue can look purple in the North Alabama sun in August. My wife an I both liked the Desert Sand--reminds us of our first car, an '89 Jade-Grey Nissan Sentra. The options were exactly what we wanted. We closed the deal in 2.5 hours, and most of that time was us test driving and thinking. I have never been treated that well by a dealer before, though Saturn came close.
We love the way it drives. We love the features. I can see how the leg room might be a problem for some, but we are a 4-person family, all about average height, with occasional need to haul another kid or two. Plus, our other vehicle is a 1999 Venture van, which we also like. The Mazda5 is perfect for our family trips, my current commute, and switching over to my wife's main vehicle, once we finish our move.
Thanks to Edmunds, and all you who posted here, for guiding us to the vehicle we wanted, so painlessly.
Too early to say much, but the dates are here:
Mazda5:
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10015468-48.html
Rondo:
http://blogs.automobilemag.com/6291269/future-cars/future-kia-products-emphasize- - -style-design/index.html
BTW, what happens to the review updates for the 08?
2008 Mazda5: 9.3
2008 Rondo: 7.7
Also, the 2009 Mazda5 is on sale now :shades:
Rondo - 3,508
However, I can live with these shortcomings as both my wife and I find the vehicle to be excellent overall. We have our 2 grandkids, ages 4 and 2 yrs. weekly and appreciate the wide opening doors and storage/cargo space. We really like the expansive glass area even though it feels like we're in a greenhouse when it's sunny. We're having the windows tinted aftermarket soon. The vehicle is surprisingly quiet inside. A good thing because the radio is not overly powerful sound-wise. It is easy to handle and tracts nicely and is smooth on good roads. It does jar a bit on rougher roads and bumps though. I'm not sure why here in Canada the powertrain is only warranted for 5 yrs./100,000 kms (62,000 mi.) while the U.S. model is warranted for 10 yrs. and 1000,000 MILES. I doubt that there is a difference in the drivetrains. Are Canadians harder on drivetrains than our American cousins? I think it's quite unfair on Kia's part and I aim to pursue this with them and would urge Canadian drivers to do the same. The fit and finish appear very good for the class and we are very satisfied with this vehicle.
Thanks and good luck on this vehicle.....palko :shades:
The Truth About Cars: 2008 Kia Rondo EX vs. 2009 Mazda5 GT
Mazda5 takes almost 10 seconds to stroll from 0 to 60 mph? :surprise:
(Mazda5 5MT: 0-60MPH 8.53 Sec)
Rondo more fun to drive than the Mazda5? :surprise:
OK, sold
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I know, it doesn't suck, but that word made my statement.
I guess I'm just glad that I stopped at 5'10" so I could enjoy a Mazda5 for a while.