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Comments
In response to some comments.... most people do NOT take time out of there busy lives to complain about there vehicle for no reason. If they are like me hate to admit when they have made a bad choice.
Just to give you a background where I am coming from. I work 2 jobs & am on a tight budget & need a reliable, quality, dependable vehicle. Hence my decision to purchase a new car, but not just any new car, the "CAR OF THE YEAR". So when I see someone implying that because the car cost $25K (which is a lot of money where I am from) it is ok that the transmission doesn't work like it should, it makes me feel disappointed and very frustrated. How can purchasing a new vehicle go so wrong.
I can live with the cheap ratting interior. The smelly air conditioner. The chipping paint (all from a car that has yet to see a complete winter or a complete year of ownership). But a transmission that does not shift correctly. That is where I draw the line. And I REFUSE to make or accept excuses from toyota or anyone about why it is ok that is drives like crap. Because none of this is what envisioned/expected when I purchased this vehicle. Infact this is exactly what I thought I was avoiding. So with that said I am completely unhappy with the cars poor performance, thus far.
Looking back my car has not shifted correctly since I first took ownership of it.
First, at around 30-38 mph the transmission would flare up, causing the rpms to jump up to around 4k really quick & then drop back down (I had not yet exp. the 1-2 second hesitiation). I brought it in & they performed a TSB that flashed something. They gave me the line that the car would take awhile to learn my driving patterns.
The TSB took care of that flaring problem, but then it started to hesitate. I push on the gas to accelerate from a stopped pos. & the car just idles forward for about 3 sec before acknowledging that I had pushed on the gas. Eventually it will bump up. This does not happen all the time (which is what scares me the most, because I cannot predict it).
The car would also downshift for no reason when I was coasting at high speeds. Causing it to engine break. I brought it to the dealership last week & they performed another TSB that replaced the solenoid.
When I drove the car home, I was so excited because it seemed to be fixed. That lasted for a couple of days. Now the car is so jerky. To describe the jerkiness...its like being in the car with a new driver that uses one foot to press on the gas & uses the other foot to press on the brake. I am not an agressive driver & like to gradually pick up speed, not possible with this car.
Now after the "fix", its like you either go hard or you don't go at all. There is no in between. It feels like it is always shifting and never to the correct gear.
I have also noticed that it is shifting rough/hard between gears. At times the rough shifting seems to escalate to a kick. It feels like its hitting something. It seems to happen most often when I am making a stop from a higher speed.
Its going back to the dealership. I think my biggest fear/concern is what impact will all these software issues and excessive/unnecessary shifting have on the transmission and engine mechanically when the vehicle is out of warranty. I think they will eventually figure out how to correct these issues, but will it be to late?
Toyota Corp. has made it quite clear that they are not going to be proactive & let the owner know that there are known issues with these earlier 2007 cars. To be honest I did not bring my vehicle in sooner because I thought I was imagining everything. The issues occur sporadically without warning & I have yet to figure out what specific conditions causes them to occur or how recreate them. Also, when I purchased a new Toyota ...I never expected transmission problems. It wasn't until I visited this forum & saw people were reading my mind that I brought it in.
I feel dooped. I am paying for a camry but feels like I'm driving a KIA.....(kia probably drives better). Now I am driving a car that I am completely disappointed in & reminded everyday why. Yes, I could sell it & buy a different one, but I'd have to pay taxes again on $25K....what a waste!
I know the dealership is going to hate me and dam the day they sold me this car because I will keep returning the car until it is working like it should.
I would like to thank everyone for there posts & copies of the TSB's...it has really been a huge help. I'm going to try some suggestions for when I return to the dealership (not like they don't already know).
princebuster1 couldn't describe it better. It's exactly what I'm experiencing with my car - 2007 LE I4 build in april 2006.
I can't believe I am even thinking about trading in my brand new Toyota but I just lost faith that Toyota knows how to rectify this issue. Yes, granted, the flare is not as bad as it was before the tranny was replaced, but the overall quality of the car is not up to Toyota standards. I looked on TundraSolutions.com and the Camry has 99 TSBs compared to most other 2007 Toyota's which only have 40-60 (by the way, not all TSBs are issues/problems).
1. Car Of The Year
2. Reliability
3. Quality for the money
4. Fuel economy; I simply do not need a car as large as the new Avalon
My most important consideration for a car is this--when I put the key in the ignition, the car starts, and I won't be stranded (I had a new Volvo that I paid far more money for that left me stranded all too often).
With that said, I think Toyota does have problems maintaining quality, and a real problem here that they need to step up to. More cars, from all manufacturers, including Toyota, are going Drive By Wire (DBW). The software needs to be rock solid. A recent survey shows that Buick and Ford owners are happier with their cars (initially) than Toyota and Honda. Lexus, though, is at the top of the list.
As per your other complaints about the interior, chipping paint, etc. I have no hint of any of that in my car. The $25K commment really targeted more than "less-than-perfect" shifts. In today's market, for $25K, you don't get (at least on a Toyota)
-- real wood trim
-- folding side mirrors
-- very comfortable, well designed, leather, memory seats
-- quiet glass (as in the Avalon)
-- brakes that stop the car from 60 in less than 130 feet
-- perfect, on center, steering
You have to spend at least $10K more for these options. And even when you do spend the money, you don't necessarily get the reliability. Take a look sometime at what BMW 3 series owners have suffered over the years.
I have friends who own Hyundai, Kia, etc. and they are generally happy with their cars. They spent less money than on a comparable Toyota. However, they tell me that their level of happiness is related to what they spent, not necessarily that they are thrilled with the cars. For example, longevity of parts, reliability, quality, safety and overall performance do not meet Toyota or Honda standards. Some can't afford to pay more for a car, and others think cars are a waste of money, and would rather take mass transit if they could, and rent a car when they need it.
Problem is Toyota and Honda seem not to be living up to their own standards. One last example, the new Honda CRV had a fluid leak between the engine and transmission. Many new owners drove their CRVs home from the dealer, and found a puddle of fluid under their cars next morning. Honda (they tell me) has fixed the problem. Still leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
I own an Infiniti G35 as well, and the difference is that I paid $10K more for it and it has $10K more of everything!
You get what you pay for.
Anyway, I will keep the Camry for another couple of years and then get rid of it and NOT buy another Toyota!
Have a great day
After following the thread, I went into my local dealer yesterday and told him I wanted TSB EG036-07 installed. He did it in about 2 hours, and the Camry now drives like a different car. It feels like a Camry. Everything is fixed.
And also, questions for chief and joel...when were your '07 camrys made? I've got a june 07 make. Until now I've thought my car was too new and shouldn't have any problems, but hearing about a new possible fix, hopefully even for my car, sounds good.
Won't know if my vin applies until I get home and can give a dealer a call.
I have a V-6 and I'm getting ready to take my car back in to a dealership that can duplicate my rough shifting and rpm flare.
I'm tied of Toyota saying it's normal.
This is not. I'm not giving up this fight yet.
These are real issues with the transmission and I would advise anyone that is considering buying a new Camry to wait till Toyota shows that they are willing to make it right with the buyers of these 07 Camry's.
I'm very unhappy with my car!
Too bad Toyota is trying to cover up this very obvious problem with the 07 Camry transmission. I have owned Camrys for the past 15 years buying new in 1992,2000,2003,and 2007. All but the 2007 have been outstanding cars. This 2007 Camry is the worst performing car I have ever owned, be it new or used. Have not given up the fight!!!
Please know that the lemmon law or arbritration requres atleast 3 attempts to fix the problem. If you don't have those attemps they have already decided your case befor eyou go to the meeting. They just don't tell you that.
I had two attempt with video evedence and they turned me down even though I made a great case.
Arbitration will use the same guide lines that the lemmon law uses even though it's not a lemmon law case. That means you need atleast 3 fixes for the same problem.
I'm having problems with the dealership even attempting to fix my car because they know it will lead to a 3rd fix and then I would qualify for the lemmon law guiede lines.
This is really unfait to all us camry owners who are experiencing the problems.
We need to stick to gether and don't give up the fight.
Feel free to look at my profile and contact me.
But then the aftermarket kit supplier would become subject to all the wrongful death lawsuits FWD manufacturers are attempting to avoid by adopting the new shift pattern/sequence/schedule.
Truly a CONUNDRUM..!!
it's important that others out there are made aware of the issues people like you are facing, and dispite toyota's and the dealership's position on the matter, the behaviors of these vehicles represent a true safety issue (for you and the passengers in your vehicle), and the vehicles immediately surrounding you.
it's as plain and simple as that.
toyota needs to have stepped up (a while ago).
Said I'll probably have to go on a road test so they can see the problems. I really hope this isn't more headache than it's worth.
She took it to the dealership and they told her nothing was wrong with her car and she should keep the brake pedal pushed all the way down when the air-conditioning is running, How lame is that.
This is becoming a serious safety concern. You may already have read others who have experienced this problems. WAKE UP TOYOTA!!!
Sorry, you have just arrived in the future...!
Both of the vehicles I rented while on vacation this year would shift so often it made me think something was wrong. The first was a 2007 Mazda minivan and I was totally convinced it had some strange transaxle behavior until I rented a 2007 Chrysler Sebring the next week and if anything found it was even worse.
These days everthing possible is being done to keep the engine operating within its best FE "sweet spot", the lowest possible RPM at which the engine will just barely produce the level of HP/torque required in the instantaneous, short term, sense.
Then throw in the need to have the transaxle ALWAYS upshift upon a lift-throttle event to increase the vehicles safety factor by avoid any substantial level of engine compression braking and you have TOO MANY SHIFTS
Take a 6 speed automatic transaxle with a lockup clutch for the torque converter and you essentially now have a 9 "speed" transaxle. To the benefit of improving FE Lockup clutches are now being used, engaged, in gear ratios below OD.
Maybe an effort is afoot to try and match the FE that can be attained with some of the new CVT equipped vehciles.
Unless we somehow end up with almost all vehicles CVT equipped.
They made me go on a road test with a service technician. He was nice, and they decided they could look at improving the transmission performance.
Two hours later I get the car back, and the operation that was performed is "EG7031." That doesn't look at all like the new TSB Joel is raving about.
The ride home was mixed. I'll give it a few days, and if they haven't done this newest TSB, I'll try and take it back, or find a place that will do it when I ask them to.
Any thoughts on what the EG7031 is? Thanks guys.
Here's the information from my TSB
Number = EG036-07
Title: ECM Calibration: Enhancement to shifting performance & smoothness
Note: This TSB supersedes TSB No. EG056-06 (obsolete and should be discarded)
Applicable Vehicles: 2007 Model Year Camry vehicles equipped with 2AZ-FE engine
Applicable Warranty: This repair is covered under the Toyota Federal Emissions Warranty. This warranty is in effect for 96 months or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle's in-service date.
"Performed ECU Recalibration to Improve Shift Logic."
Hmm, I have a subscription to TundraSolutions.com which lists all the 2007 Camry TSBs. I don't see anything that matches the TSB you mentioned. Could it be brand new? Also, your TSB is missing a number. Here are all of them that start with EG:
EG004-07 M.I.L. ON DTC P0011, P0012, OR P0016
EG014-07 M.I.L. ON DTC P0456 (REVISED)
EG015-07 2AZ-FE ENGINE BLOCK
EG018-02 2GR-FE ENGINE OIL LEAK FROM FRONT TIMING COVER
EG018-06 ILSAC GF-4 ENGINE OIL RECOMMENDATION
EG034-07 ENGINE BANK 1 AND BANK 2 A/F AND O2 IDENTIFICATION
EG038-06 2GR-FE (V6) ENGINE OIL LEAK (REVISED)
EG039-06 EXCESSIVE ENGINE NOISE AFTER TRANSAXLE REMOVAL
EG056-06 ECM CALIBRATION: ENHANCEMENT TO SHIFTING PERFORMANCE & SMOOTHNESS (REVISED)
I'll drive it for a few days and see where I'm at.
True, I have a '07 Camry with a manual transmission.
1. You know to use the clutch INSTANTLY if your seat of the pants sensor indicates that the current level of engine compression is excessive for roadbed conditions.
2. You know, absolutely, not to downshift to a level that will result in loss of control due to excessive engine compression braking REGARDLESS of roadbed conditions.
3. You might shift down into 1st gear before coming to a full and complete stop but you do not engage the clutch unless you are certain of roadbed traction conditions.
4. You know that unlike a RWD or R/AWD w/stick shift you cannot use engine compression as "drag-braking" (braking only at the rear) to moderately brake the vehicle while simultaneously helping to maintain the vehicle's alignment with the roadbed or desired direction of travel.
That being said...
You may notice that fewer and fewer FWD and F/AWD vehicles are being made available in the marketplace, the RAV4 for instance. Apparently the industry feels that not everybody purchasing a FWD or F/AWD stick shift knows these RULES.
Additionally some of the FWD and F/AWD vehicles that do still have a stick shift have control firmware that will automatically UP-REV the engine to closely match roadspeed if the ECU determines that your downshift would result in an extraordinary level of engine compression braking.
Looks as if the new Suzuki SX4 stick shift uses that technique.
New TSB on the Camry still isn't cutting it. I think it's a little better, but still making me sick. At this point I'm looking to replace it. But that's not why I'm posting.
Without going too off-topic, in the last two days I've driven the following cars.
'07 Camry
'07 Civic
'07 Altima
I can say that all three drive almost identically. The CVT in the Altima is nice, but there is a problem with all of them. When I press the gas and brakes, I feel disconnected from the car. Whether it's drive by wire stuff, or something else (I'm sure wwest can shed some light on this). Then I've driven two other cars:
'01 Jetta (My wife's car)
'07 Jetta
These two cars drive identical, and COMPLETELY different from the previous three. When I press the gas, it goes, and it all feels so natural. Are the Volkswagens really made that diffently, because it feels like a completely different system. The Camry, Civic, Altima, all feel the same.
So that's where I'm at. Off to look at some Jettas! I love this forum.
Volkswagon hesitation
(Volkswagon, wrong spelling but that's the way I googled.)
Interesting, VERY interesting....
I suggest you do the same.
Up until just now I have been comfortable with my belief that this engine/transaxle delay/hesitation issue had to do ONLY with FWD and F/AWD vehicles. The first google hit as a result of the above search has made me begin to think otherwise.
But I suppose inadvertent (SURPRISE!) wheelslip due to engine compression braking at the rear can be just as detrimental as in the front in certain circumstances. Say for inexperienced drivers that tend to freeze up when something life threatening unexpectedly occurs. But I still content that this occurance is less threatening on the rear wheels since you still have traction at the front for maintaining directional control.
So maybe it has to do with the evolution of the firmware design of ALL automatic transmissions(***). The goal seems to be to make them act more like one would use a stick shift and clutch.
What was that Clint Eastwood fighter pilot movie awhile back wherein the airplane's "ECU" could read the pilot's mind?
Maybe that's where all this is headed. Just to avoid a clutch pedal....??
*** Or maybe not.
The Touareg can be in 4X4 mode wherein 50% of engine compression braking effects will be at the front wheels making it potentially just as unsafe as a FWD.
I don't often feel the effects of my RX300's strange upshifting technique but rarely I do get that slightly queasy feeling in my stomach. Oftentimes if I think back I can usually attribute it to just having experienced a circumstance wherein the RX unexpectedly upshifts.
Sort of like that "here and quickly gone" momentarily out of control experience as you fly a light airplane through a slight/short up or down draft.
For all future Camry buyers, don't take my bad experience as a condemnation of the Camry, because I'm not exactly normal. What I recommend is driving a LOT of cars to see how they drive. For me, the Jetta felt completely different than most of the asian cars on the market, and for me that was a good thing. Everyone is different though, so go out and drive cars for yourself, and don't assume that a car will be good just because of the name on the back.
Good luck to everybody!