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Comments
Do I necessary stop the car, while driving at D position shift, before change the gear to lower as 3 or 2 or L ?
In my country so crowded with many kinds of transportation and jams happen all time . I often change shift to lower gear like that and so is it harmful to an auto CVT system on my 2.4 camry LE ?
Thanks in advance!
However, shifting the AT manually to "3" when you need power should achieve the same result.
Your owner's manual (which you should read cover to cover) will explain the use / benefits of manually shifting the vehicle's transmission.
For example, if you are "stuck" in mud, or in ice, you might try starting out in "2".
Other than that, if you are manually shifting your AT alot, it's sign you should have purchased a MT.
While you're at it you might as well solicit service records of this same type from VW, Ford, Honda, etc, or even all marques that have FWD vehicles with automatic transaxles in their fleet.
That way your arbitration meeting can adjourn, will be adjourned, almost before it starts since you will have proven that your car is NOT "unique" in "this" sense and therefore NOT a lemon! Your car cannot be proven to be uniquely a lemon if the problem you are experiencing is fleetwide, or in this case industry wide.
wwest is right when he suggests you visit the other forums. other toyota models with DBW have had people complaining about them.
for a clearer picture, visit the NHTSA website. I don't think you'll find the complaint level consistent across makes. people owning toyota / lexus branded vehicles have been dealing with issues like this for some time.
arbitration... i think the arbiters are paid by toyota. i think you signed certain privs away when you bought the vehicle.
good luck.
I think I have noted that the "flare" happens mostly after a "cold" start and basically doesn't repeat once the vehicle driveline, ATF, has warmed to operating level. And remember that when the ATF is cold it has less volume.
ATF has WEIGHT and cost, $$$, the less you put into the transaxle at the factory you are better off from an engineering standpoint, FE, and from the beancounters standpoint.
My suggestion would be that if you are experiencing the flare as above then while the engine/transaxle is cold, top off the ATF, only to the dipstick's cold measuring level, being careful NOT to overfill (at least not by very much).
I think I have also read that before you start out COLD if you idle the car for 5-10 minutes the flare doesn't occur. Not suggesting anyone do this as anything other than a test.
I think if I owned one of these and grew intolerant of the flare I would remove the transaxle sump and find a way to increase its volume just ever so slightly.
If you restrict the issue to "flare" then I would agree. I was addressing the issue from the context of the 1-2 second downshift delay created by DBW to prevent premature failure of the transaxle.
there's shift flares, excessive shifting, vague shifting, hesitation, uncontrolled acceleration. have i forgotten some behaviors here?
some have a greatly improved vehicle when the TSBs are applied, and some say the problems return later.
so, there are probably a few factors at root cause here and not everyone is experiencing the exact same issue or issues. in my mind, because of the computer integration between engine and transmission control, we are left to speculate as to what is truly the cause.
in the bigger picture, this speaks volumes to what is likely to happen as our vehicles (the make is irrelevant) become more and more complex, computerized, and sub-systems integrated in the name of fuel economy, safety, and parts longevity (now that's a good one).
expect technicians and vehicle owners to be stupified by bizzare behaviors, and explainations provided by the manufacturer or dealers or technicians to be pithy, non-reassuring, inaccurate, or just plain wrong.
expect customer-centric dealerships and their employees to be placed in awkward positions of having to state "cannot duplicate" or "operating as designed" or "they all do that" thus adhering to the party line as they await a highly scripted "fix" which can only come from the manufacturer.
expect the fixes to involve complete sub-system change outs as traditional maintenance techniques will no longer apply; black box modules or sub-assemblies too technically rich for the dealerships to service themselves will have to be swapped out until the real problem is identified.
expect long waits as part commonality among models result in shortages.
anticipate that the criticality of software function requires a good deal of quality review and testing to assure no negative fuel economy, safety, parts longevity, or user expectation impact as new firmware is readied for deployment to the engine control and transmission control computers in our vehicles.
expect we'll be forced more and more to be driven by our vehicles, rather than the other way around - being forced to adapt and change our driving style to match these "smart" "adaptive" technologies.
expect our learned behaviors, some deeply adopted by our brains over the course of decades (of living and experience in other domains, or in the driving domain itself) to collide with these new behaviors.
some of these behaviors will be artifacts of the systems being designed and tested by engineers without adherence and sensitivity to fundamental human factors / usability principles.
we need an independant organization like the NHTSA agressively investigating claims when a trend surfaces. and we probably need more transparency on the part of manufacturers when the situation is calling for TSBs and "secret service campaigns" vs. recalls.
we also need to know if and when an organization like the NHTSA is actively investigating complaints on a make and model.
it's admittedly unfair that toyota seems to be under a microscope on the issue. they design and build products consumers what and find valuable; they are the ones with the expectation of quality; they have been proactive adopting these new technologies and bringing it to their product lines at price points we expect and accept; they are the segment leader in many respects.
so their responsibility and ownership on issues like this must be elevated. they must be an exemplar. that's moving forward.
I understand how you feel about your vehicle, and you have the "right" to feel that way about a poorly designed vehicle. But here is the important questions in relation to this entire issue; ------ DOES ANYONE ON THIS SITE THINK THAT "TOYOTA" REALLY CARES ABOUT WHAT WE THINK ABOUT THEIR PRODUCTS? If "Toyota" does care, what have they done, to correct the problems with their vehicles. Why does the company continue to deny that there is a problme with a number of their vehicles?
There is a "bottom line to every situation," and there is a "bottom line to this situation."! ---- We, as consumers, need to voice our opinion with our "purchasing power". Our dollars will speak much louder than any arbitration hearing. The "action" is simple! DO NOT PURCHASE ANY TOYOTA VEHICLES in the future. If the company is not going to be responsive to our needs as consumers, then we should take our business to another vendor! This is my first Toyota product. I DO NOT have any problmes,(at this point in time), with my V6 Camry XLE, but how would I be treated if my vehicle suddenly develops a problem?
At the present time, my vehicle is coming up to its 15,000 mile service. So far, it has been trouble free. In January, this vehicle will be one year old, and I will have somewhere between 22,000 and 25,000 miles on the clock. I am considering getting out from under this potential "time bomb" at that point in time, and moving into an American brand. If the Honda Accord for 2008 has comfortable seats, I might go back to a Honda. No more Toyota products for me, and I have a "so called good one"! They have sold me their last vehicle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best regards to all! ----- Dwayne. ----- :sick:
I'm also one of the owners who experience throttle lags after making a right turn and it scares me everyday especially during cold morning start. Already schedule with the dealer this weekend for TSB fix and hopefully see some improvement. Did the previous TSB (056-07) and only saw improvement within the first month of TSB applied..:mad:
But somewhere in about the mid-eighties we lost the technological lead, at least insofar as building quality levels with high technological content.
Anyone notice that Chrysler was the first, by several years, to introduce solid state ignition?
Chrysler? "On the bottom of the heap"..Chrysler...?
Ford got the first US patent for improving the safety factor of FWD and F/AWD in wintertime adverse roadbed conditions.....
But Toyota is seemingly the one taking advantage of the Ford patent aspects.......FIRST....!
for all 2007 camrys (2AZ-FE) manual and automatic transmissions.
Download the new TSB EG036-07 in PDF
http://rapidshare.com/files/52160365/EG036-037.pdf.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_AZ_engine
the V6 probably has a 4GR in it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine
These days the OD lockup clutch is being used, engaged, in gear ratios other than actual OD.
Keep in mind that in cruise control the engine/transaxle ECU/control system has more "look forward" capability then were you "foot" driving.
So, 70MPH as you approached an uphill hwy section and once you reached the uphill section the speed began to decline and the ECU quickly determined that the 70MPH speed could not be sustained in the current gear.
So it commanded a downshift along with a disengagement of the lockup clutch. You're now downshifted into ~4rd and the cruise control makes use (for your 3-5 seconds) of the torque converter's "edge" to regain the lost speed. Now, once the set speed is regained there is no longer a need for the torque advantage of the converter so the lockup clutch is re-engaged. Yes even in 4rd gear, or maybe even in 4th, 5th and OD for a 6 speed automatic transaxle.
Keep in mind that these days the engine/transaxle ECU firmware is more than ever designed to conserve fuel. What it "wants" to do is operate the engine at the lowest possible RPM that just barely produces enough engine output to handle the current load. But operating the engine right on the "CUSP" like this, just above lugging will mean requiring a quick downshift for even the slightest increase in engine output torque. Or conversely, an upshift if the load lightens.
So, as you started the climb up that hill the ECU "learned" that top gear (lockup/OD) could not be used to sustain your desired, "set" roadspeed. And in the process of that "learning" the roadspeed had dropped by ~2-3MPH.
Maybe it was actually the knock sensor signal (long before it became audible to your ears) resulting from the engine "descending" into lugging that "triggered" the downshift decision.
So, the ECU commands a downshift, first, to regain the lost speed using the torque gain of the converter, and then, knowing the desired speed cannot be sustained in the previous higher gear ration, simply engages the lockup clutch to sustain the current level of engine output.
I think what may have happened recently is that with the advent of so many CVT's in use the engineers have come to realize how consistently using the correct, MOST correct, gear ratio for the moment is so important for the aspect of improving FE.
So now we have 6 speed, 5 plus OD, automatic transmissions that quite regularly use the lockup clutch to provide up to 9 levels of reduction gearing plus OD.
A whole lot of shiftin' going on.
Having recently driven two '07 models, rentals, I would say somewhat uncomfortably so....
Don't forget that the auto mags get samples hand picked by the manufacturers to test. They don't get some random car off the line.
This the first Toyota we have ever owned. We bought it looking for a good MPG car from a reliable maker and we are starting to wonder about the reliability of the car. We have had it in 3 times to fix the dash. The trim piece around the clock (by the windshield) has popped up 3 times.
http://www.answers.com/topic/toyota-vin-codes
for a long time, people had been dismissing the transmission issues new owners were experiencing and reporting. interesting how there have been TSBs issued to address problems that weren't "real". so progress is being made.
i suspect (but admittedly do not know) that while the TSBs that call for a reflash to the ECU (Engine Control Unit), PCM (Powertrain Control Module), or TCM (Transmission Control Module) or what have you, you're probably not going to get around shift flare without some hardware change to the transmission, shift solenoids or torque convertor hardware...
Perhaps you can mitigate greatly hesitation and flare with reprogramming, but eventually, I tend to agree with poster wwest, you come up against some other physics issues related to flow rates, volumes, capacities, surface areas, etc.
And I would tend to believe it would be more expensive for a manufacturer for large N complaints to service / swap hardware, than develop and issue a reprogramming.
Good luck.
Is there any other TSB besides the 7031? My dealer says that's the only one.
Thanks.