Toyota Land Cruiser

steelcruiser · September 2004

You might try various dealers via the web and get as many different price quotes as you can. Once you get a price from one dealer, you can use that as leverage (to a point) with other dealers. As they've just come out, deals on '05s probably aren't going to be as good as they will deeper in the model year, or if/when gas prices go up again. Can you wait a bit for the '05?

As for your '01, have you thought about selling it yourself or asking one of the dealers to refer someone to you? I've done that before and "kicked back" a few hundred $ for the referral. If you've got all of your service records, I would think you could easily get $20K+ for it. Also, what are the asking prices for '01s in your area?

coupedncal · September 2004

Except the navigation feature, there is no big difference b/w your '01 model year LC and the new '05 model year truck. Could you share what is the driving force behind this decision to fork out as much as $35,000 for this upgrade ? Of course you are at liberty to not share your reasoning if you don't feel it is appropriate but I am sincerely curious. You have already taken significant depreciation hit on your truck and replacing it with a new one will simply reset the clock and restart the depreciation once again.
Thoughts ?

flyfish4life · September 2004

$10K is an absolutely ridiculous quote. You should be able to get at least low $20s advertising through the paper. Have you considered asking CARMAX for a quote? I would seriously question the integrity of your dealer if they can't do better than that!

tlcman · September 2004

not only is there anew nave system, but completely new tranny 5speed vs old 4 speed that offers much better response than the old 4 speed, Interior touches are much better with a redesigned (slightly remolded) center counsle DVD in Park cababilitys. Also the other big reason (IMO) that he would like to upgrade is the his old truck has 111,000 miles on it... I do have to say though I would not purchase an 05 i would get an used 03 or 04 with 15 - 20 k miles on it, Thats what I did and I couldnt be happier.

snappy1 · September 2004

coupedncal

My thought behind upgrading the LC is that it's a company car and this is a good time to upgrade. Our last few years have been bad ones and this one has been pretty good. I don't know if this same opportunity will be here next year or the year after.

My whole thought process has changed since I looked at the numbers with the trade in. My original research on this site showed a trade in value of $27,000 (with the mileage) and I thought that I could get into a new one at around $30,000. When the dealer offered $10,000 for my 01, my initial reaction was that I will continue to use my 01 rather than give it away. I seem to be leaning more in that direction daily.

Your logic is right on the money. As I write this and after reading your post, I am not sure that I can find a logical reason to upgrade. I am sure that there is some "I want a new vehicle" thinking in the back of my head. I also feel that with 117,000 miles on my 01 that things will start going wrong. This is my first LC and I like it better than anything that I have ever owned. The only vehicle on my new list would be another LC.

I don't know if I answered your question but I appreciate your comment. It certainly gave me some pause to think.

hank14 · September 2004

Out of curiosity, can you tell a difference in the ride of your 01 and the 05? I only have my 99 with 132,000 miles to compare. I wouldn't drive a new one for fear of being dissapointed with mine. Is the $10,000 with a payoff on your '01? Have you kept the service completely up to date? The 120,000 mile service is extensive, but worth it for another 2 years of driving.

coupedncal · September 2004

I appreciate you taking my message the right way. It was not meant to second guess your decision but just to offer an alternate perspective. You have a great truck and even with your miles, you have a long way to go before experiencing any significant issues with it. keep up with the maintenance and you will do just fine.

And on a side note, isn't it rather unfortunate no one on this forum will have this much confidence in one of our domestic SUVs .. even ones priced more than LC. It is sad that we let them get away with it. If you think LC depreciates at a quicker pace in the first couple of years, just imagine what the caddy SUV drops to in the same time period.

cdavis · September 2004

I also have a '98 LC with the same issue. I have had it in the dealer a few times and they can not find the rattle. Have you had any luck with yours since your last post?

cdavis

tlcman · September 2004

parking brake cables are known to rattle, but take a weekend and get under your truck with a wrench and move things around tap lines cables, and pipes around to see if they reproduce what could be the sound, also try to find how the sound is made i e upon acceleration deceleration, turning left right ect... Also poke around in the suspension and under the hood as well... This is not an uncomon noise and is mostly attributed to the parking brake cable..

lpc68 · September 2004

i have been having problems starting my LC recently. In the past, i changed the EFI relay and that solved the problem of the starter not turning over. recently, however, even with a brand new EFI relay, the engine is not starting easily. i have a brand new battery. when i turn the ignition on in the morning the starter doesnt turn over. i try again and then the starter turns over but the engine doesnt start. i then have to try about 2-5 times before the engine starts and then it sputters a bit and i have to press the gas pedal to get it to start.

i first thought it might be the starter but it seems to be ok in the middle of the day. this typically happens in the morning, although, as an experiment, at the end of today i turned off the LC and tried to start it immeidately and had the same problem.

thanks in advance to any advice on this problem. this board has been great over the years.

hank14 · September 2004

Have you cleaned your throttle body? That is a common problem that will cause rough idling, stalling, etc.

hic · September 2004

Starting problem does not sound like a throttle body issue to me. I think something in the ignition system, and maybe more than one problem since both the starter itself will not turn over (could be ignition, relay, wiring, the starter itself, etc.) and, once it does, another problem in getting spark to the cylinders. Rough idling/running could also be poor spark. Time to get the shop manual out.....

HiC

jpg2 · September 2004

I have not had any success with the rattle cause & location since my last post. I have taken the LC out of service since the end of June because I am driving a new Crossfire for the summer. I thought I could use the LC for the fall & winter & the Crossifire for the spring & summer. However, I miss the utility of the LC & will bring it back into service by Oct 1st.

I have recently "test driven" the LC to verify again that the rattle still exists since it was "repaired" early June. If you recall from my earlier post, the dealer replaced rear stabilizer bushings & connections. It still rattles as bad or worse.

I have gone under & shaken, pounded & pushed on everything I can touch. Everything is as solid as you'd expect. But the rattle, when driving over rough, esp. raised pavement ridges, sounds like I'm dragging a garbage can. I plan to contact the dealer soon & give it back to the tech to try again. The tech appeared to work hard at the problem & thought he had it solved. NOT! The parking brake was also repaired in the process. This does not seem to be the problem.

If anyone has any additional suggestions, let me know. I will follow-up after October 1st with a report on my progress.

grantchstr · September 2004

Ye olde Heat Shield problemo. Period.

tlcman · September 2004

simply put

hank14 · September 2004

In my case, my starter was going out- irregular, non functioning starter, seemed worse for cold starts) at the same time my throttle body was so fouled the engine idle speed dropped to about 400 rpm and it would surge (but it never tripped the check engine light). I replaced the starter and cleaned the TB and we're back to normal.

jpg2 · September 2004

Thanks for your response. However, I had 2 heat sheilds near the manifold pipes removed 2 years ago. Are there more that I am not aware of?

Thanks again.

John G

buddyboy2 · September 2004

Have service rep print out - TSB EG005-00 JUN 00 Exhaust - Rattle Noise. You can look at parts list (clamps and little rubber spacers) and decide whether to do yourself, or not.

cruiserlust · September 2004

Still hunting for an 05, but test drove a 2003 this weekend; do they really not have dual climate controls for passenger and driver? Also, can you control the rear heat/air from the front or just from the controls mounted on the roof in the back?

Snappy1: Did you decide to keep yours?

Thanks everyone

jpg2 · September 2004

Thanks,

I'll look it up.

kirk4 · September 2004

Regarding the engines, any word on whether the LC and LX470 will start shipping with the 4.7L, 282HP engine that they're putting in the Sequoia's vs. the 235HP 4.7L V8? I've heard sometime early 2005, others have said 2007.

steelcruiser · September 2004

Kirk-my contact didn't have didn't know anything about that. Makes me think there's something pretty significant coming down the pike--like low #s of 05s, until the 06s are introduced? I believe that's what happened with the 80 series in '97. Wonder if the fact that the LC/LXs are made in Japan has anything to do with it?

lpc68 · September 2004

thanks for the feedback... how do i clean the throttle body? is it something i could do myself or do i have to take it into the shop?

thanks again.

hank14 · September 2004

They make a throttle body cleaner spray. Do a search of Landcruiser discussions about this. Or, take it to a mechanic and have them remove the throttle body for a very thorough cleaning.

tlcman · September 2004

The 1991 is out of my range, because of the engine, but i would bet you could take off the air in hose at the throttle body, and use a toothbrush to clean what you can, remove dirt ect, but you wont beable to get the entire thing clean. But this has helped others in the past.
-mike

steelcruiser · September 2004

CRC-makes a throttle body cleaner spray (Kragen carries it). As Mike says, remove the large black "hose" which attaches to the TB and use a toothbrush to clean it.

steelcruiser · September 2004

To follow up on my post last week--I saw the service manager at another Toy dealership today. He's been at it for 25+ years and is pretty well connected, so here's a summary

Here's what I was told:

No answer on why there isn't a VVTi engine in the '05 LC

Guess is that the 5.0 liter engine now under development will be in the next one

Something would have "leaked" by now if there was anything big coming in '06. New one in '07?

LC/LX will continue as two separate vehicles

Toyota is working hard on hybrid engines across the line. In '08, there will be hybrids for all models.

Again, this is all hearsay and is very similar to what the GM told me last week.

flyfish4life · September 2004

Motortrend (in their 2006 future vehicle forecast) says that in 2006, the LC will be redesigned. This is a fairly new statement because I check this forecast periodically and to date, they have been silent with respect to the LC. Other items of interest included in their 2007 forecast is the redesign of Sequoia and Tundra, outfitted with a 5.4L V-8 - supposedly the Tundra will receive this engine in 2006, too. The LX 470 has apparently been moved back to 2007 for replacement, which makes sense based on the Sequoia redesign.

My question is (other than how reliable is Motortrend) what do you readers think is in store for the LC since Toy/Lex appears to be getting into the size matters battle?

mercara · September 2004

The new 4.7L engine is manufactured in a new plant in US and the LC in Japan. That's probably why it's not available on the LC. Wonder if it makes sense to make the engine here, ship it to Japan and then ship the landcruiser back and deal with the potential quality problem associated with a new assembly plant.

steelcruiser · September 2004

I'd guess the LC/LX size will stay about the same as these vehicles are clearly in the luxury SUV category and probably aimed squarely at RR. It seems that the options that are on the LX have a way of making it to the LC a year or two after they're introduced. Also, optional items start becoming standard. With "everybody" jumping on the fuel efficiency issue, bet the new LCs will be less thirsty....mabye 16 in town and 21 or so highway? Maybe a 6 speed transmission?

As to what to expect for the new one...I'd guess at HID swivel headlights (finally), satellite radio option someday, heads up display, night vision, hill ascent/descent, driving condition/mode selection....

And I think you're right on the money about the more powerful motor. LC/LX's are 95% made and assembled in Japan. ARACO is the body maker, and can't imagine Toy shipping LCs here for engine installation and/or final assembly

kirk4 · September 2004

Very good info and that makes sense regarding the engines. However, (and I'm not an manufacturing engineer) but, one would think that the USA based manufacturing technology/process of the new, 282HP 4.7L engines could be sent to the Japanese for their use. Do I seem like a guy who wants a LC/LX with 282HP?

steelcruiser · September 2004

I agree with you and I'd like one too. Because things have been so quiet, I'm inclined to think that there's going to be some really nice changes ahead. Some that will separate the LC platform from the other Toyota SUVs. I'm not sure, but I think the whole V8 began here anyway?

I'm very guilty of projecting my own feelings and wishes about the next gen LC. If I were Toyota what would I do? I wouldn't introduce a new one until I had some benchmark setting standards. More power, more efficiency, more capabilities etc that I know work and won't tarnish, but enhance the LC name and reputation. And I wouldn't relinquish any segement of the market, or give up that name

Seems to me that Toyota, relative to the luxury SUV market, has quietly (or maybe not so quietly?) focused on over taking RR and isn't about to introduce a new version that's not clearly superior. Though those of us in the LC community feel that they are already better, there may be a "snob" appeal quotient that Toyota's after too?

BTW, the Tuesday, 9/28 WSJ had a very interesting article re: intensified efforts on the part of automakers (including Toyota) to increase mileage via making gas engines more efficient rather than resort to hybrids. Quoting from the article "even the best engines on average waste 80% of thermal energy they create by burning gasoline." They're working on a homogenous-charge compression-ignition engine (HCCI) These engines are similar to diesels in that they use compression to ignite the fuel.

I think this time "people" around the world are listening and paying attention to the need to get more efficient cars and trucks on the road--soon! Should be lots of changes coming sooner rather than later.

tlcman · September 2004

you bring up a good point but if they could spend the money developing the gas engine into a better engine then they would not spend it developing hybrids, which IMH are going to be better than any gas engine. If they increase the efeciency of the gas engine by uping the ´thermal energy´ containment, then they would have to detune the engine to get better gass milage, because you would still be puting the same amount of gas in but you would get a much beter preformance curve... The Thermal engery thing is for preformance cars to worry about, Toyotas got an agressive Hybrid plan to get every car in the line up with a hybrid config by the year 2008, I prais them for this... Where as many say that Hybrids are underpowered, that is not true, Toyota has put out a 400+ HP jhybrid motor for they concept car, Alison Voltariz i think (sp?) a V6 turns a generator that power dual motors, one front and one rear, for a out put of 400+ Pretty impressive. Another option is to keep a V-8 in the turks and run a part time hybrid, where the electric motor does what it can but when towing is nesecary the V-8 kicks in.

steelcruiser · September 2004

I agree with you and I'd like one too. Because things have been so quiet, I'm inclined to think that there's going to be some really nice changes ahead. Some that will separate the LC platform from the other Toyota SUVs. I'm not sure, but I think the whole V8 began here anyway?

I'm very guilty of projecting my own feelings and wishes about the next gen LC. If I were Toyota what would I do? I wouldn't introduce a new one until I had some benchmark setting standards. More power, more efficiency, more capabilities etc that I know work and won't tarnish, but enhance the LC name and reputation. And I wouldn't relinquish any segement of the market, or give up that name

Seems to me that Toyota, relative to the luxury SUV market, has quietly (or maybe not so quietly?) focused on over taking RR and isn't about to introduce a new version that's not clearly superior. Though those of us in the LC community feel that they are already better, there may be a "snob" appeal quotient that Toyota's after too?

BTW, the Tuesday, 9/28 WSJ had a very interesting article re: intensified efforts on the part of automakers (including Toyota) to increase mileage via making gas engines more efficient rather than resort to hybrids. Quoting from the article "even the best engines on average waste 80% of thermal energy they create by burning gasoline." They're working on a homogenous-charge compression-ignition engine (HCCI) These engines are similar to diesels in that they use compression to ignite the fuel.

I think this time "people" around the world are listening and paying attention to the need to get more efficient cars and trucks on the road--soon! Should be lots of changes coming sooner rather than later.

steelcruiser · September 2004

Mike-don't know about the tune, de-tune thing. I'm no engineer. You bring up the point about the 400hp motor etc and I think that Caddy experimented with cylinder "cutout" a few years back where the 8 only ran on 4 cylinders at something less than full throttle. there are probably several technologies and approaches that exist, but there just hasn't been that much incentive until now to really get it going?

I'm anxious to see what Toyota and other manufacturers have up their sleeves. The next few years should be very interesting to say the least.

tlcman · September 2004

I am an mechanical engineer, and four years ago I actually developed a 4.5 litre V-8 engine intended for SUV and 1/2, to 1 ton pickups that ran on 4 alternating cylinders (to keep oil from building up on the cylinder walls) in the ´economy´ mode, then when the accelerator was pressed beyond 50%,or hill / towing was felt by the central CPU it would fire on all 8. It was a design that worked well but would have been complicated and difficult to mass produce. I presented it to several major engine manufacturing facilities and told the same thing, apparently I was not the first to think of a V-8 with a quite side, and the new 05´ Honda Minivan uses a V-6 that switches into a 3 cylinder mode to save gas.... go figure... Im not saying you would have to de-tune the engine with advanced thermals, if your didnt you would see better performance, but you would still be burning the same amount of fuel, If you detune it you can stay at the same power output due to the advances in thermals but inject less fuel, thus increasing the economy. I dont think that toyota is going to go to the cut out cylinder design or advanced thermals, because they have themselfs invested in the hybrid world right now. Maybe after that they will look things over.

steelcruiser · September 2004

"if you detune it you can stay at the same power output due to the advances in thermals but inject less fuel, thus increasing the economy."

This was how I interpreted the info in the article. Same or perhaps better performance but with much less waste.

tlcman · September 2004

we are talking about different things here, waste and better economy.. According to you (i dont know 100% i have not done extensive studies on this) you said 80% thermal energy goes to waste. If you were to harness that energy you could use it inplace of a small amount of gas per injection, resulting in better feul economy. Of course that is less fuel (my detuning statement) if you kept it the same feul output you would see better preformance. eather way you look at it waste is cut down. But thermal engergy is hard to capture and reuse as means of engine power. Unless you want to use the engine as a boiler, have a turbine, turn a force air induction for the car, using boiled off water by the engine.... anywho im getting caried away with that, its too complicated expensive and the R&D budget would be off the scale, and all for a small gain of 2-3 mpg depending on aplication

cruiserlust · September 2004

Well, all this talk about a new version is really making me wonder if I should be pursuing a 2005.
Someone had mentioned that Toyota may be producing small numbers of LC's for 05 in anticipation of the 2006, and that certainly appears to be the case at least so far. My dealer (which I think has very high sales volume) has made two requests (so far) for me for a 2005 with no success. And that is without designating a particular color!
Of course, I know it is early in the model year and I don't know how fast they usually start to become available.
I had an interesting conversation with the guy at the dealership and he was talking about how much effort Toyota goes to in determining what options, and combinations of options, colors and models people want and how they are so successful at making sure dealers have just enough of what they can sell. Which is all great unless you want something that is outside the "norm"; then it can be difficult to find.

craig5588 · October 2004

Hope9811,

I am in the same situation that you were back in May. I am looking to buy a 1997 or 1998 TLC and want to find out more info on the reliability, etc?

Did you ever get any feedback? You mentioned that you had already done some research, where did you find reliable sources? Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks Craig

craig5588 · October 2004

What feedback did you receive? I am looking for a 97/98 and would like to get as much insight as possible on their reliability. Thanks in advance for any help. Regards, Craig

hank14 · October 2004

This may sound crazy, but go back and read all 4000 posts on this board. It has more common every day problems and solutions than you will find other places (and also a lot of Landcruiser justified bias). Also, you might be able to call a Landcruiser specialist, like Sleeoffroad or Man-a-fre for tips on problems to look for. Just remember, the 97 is the last fj80 model and the 98+ is the uzj100 models, which have many differences.

tlcman · October 2004

you dont need to worry about reliability with eaither modles, personaly I would opt for the FZJ-80 (97) because it had previous modles to test equipment, and thus was refined beyond comparison, the 98 was the first year for the UZJ-100 so it was all new, minus the transmistion and H biuld style.

2klc · October 2004

I have the same problem on my 2000 LC with the power locks: "power locks on my TLC stopped working from the door switches. They still work from the remote." Anyone know the cause/solution for this?

dabobt · October 2004

I have a 2004 LC. I really don't like cars where the doors lock themselves. Based on page 15/16 of the manual there does not appear to be a way to disable this.

Of the 4 modes offered, I would like mode 2 (locks engage after reaching 12 mph). However after many attempts I cannot engage mode 2. I believe I'm following the directions carefully. I never get to step 4, where the locks engage/disengage as a confirmation.

On step 3 it doesn't say whether moving to step 4 is a result of the time going by (approx 5 secs) or be lifting off the button after the time. Neither way works for me in any case.

Anyone have success with this?

Thanks. Bob.

robertsbrad · October 2004

After 82k miles on my 96 LC, I'm putting on my 4th set of brake pads. The Toyota Service manager says that is average for most LC's. Anyone getting better mileage out of brake pads?

What 'do-it-yourself' repair manual do you recommend?

grantchstr · October 2004

I have 34,000 currntly on my front pads - an Fj80 - in fact I expressed surprise to my indy that I didnt need new ones at the laast oil change as my usual experience is 20/25,000.

george7 · October 2004

I have a 2000 LC and just purchased a trailer for my boat. Dry total weight (trailer, boat, engines, no gas) of 5600#. With the boat gassed up total weight 6800#. I do not plan on motoring for any significant length with boat tanks full. But wanted to throw out the question of what the factor of safety is on the 6500# max. Is it a hard limit, soft limit?

Any ideas? Thanks.

ruking1 · October 2004

45,000 is about tops for any and all of the FJ80's I have had (91,94,96,97). The FJ60 was kinder and gentler at app 60,000 miles. I used to use this as a daily driver client and delivery truck!

I have taken to trying different pads, OEM, TRD, PBR's, Ferrodo, Performance Friction, and they are all seemingly have the same fate from the miles point of view.

kirk4 · October 2004

New brakes that often seems high. I have a 2000 LC (which I know is a different vehicle type than your '96) with 89K miles. I just replaced brakes all around for the first time. Both hiway and around town driving.

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