Volvo XC90 vs MB M Class vs Acura MDX vs Lexus RX 350 vs BMW X5 vs Cadillac SRX

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

You are right, if a car goes out of control and spins out, a rear wheel drive can regain control a bit easier, but not as much as you think. In the old days its a big differnece but now, that differnce has been norrowed quite a bit. Think of it this way, a FWD car will keep you out of that spin out situation to start with, so you dont need the recovery control.
I wouldnt say that Cadillac is in the cutting edge with their front wheel drive technology. Look toward European and Japanese cars for the best handling FWD cars.

wwest · April 2003

How many of us can quickly find that throttle "sweet spot" (***) when we first feel the front "driven" wheels lose traction.

*** the point wherein the front wheels are neither driving nor braking the vehicle and the contact patch can be dedicated to directional control/recovery. Clutches work beautifully for this but there are so very few of them out there any more and the alternative is quickly moving the transmission into neutral.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

I must have went to a different driving school than you. If I was in a spin out, the last thing I would do is to shift into neutral. One would want as much control of the vehicle as possible, shifting into neutral would eliminate some control such as throttle.
Standard Spin out precedure is to step on the brakes and steer in the direction of the skid until you gain control, unless you have VSC. In the better front wheel drive cars, the front wheel can control the vehicle just as well if you applied braking or throttle to it.

maxhonda99 · April 2003

hopeitsfriday,

"I am just wondering why and where is the redesign? Toyota could have done all those changes without a total re-design. The MDX did from 02 to 03."

WHat's the wondering about?

Let's see the RX330:
is more powerful
more fuel efficient
stiffer body structure
has a different AWD setup
is 6" longer
has a longer wheelbase
has a totally different body style.
has many more features inluding Adaptive lighting system, knee airbags, curtain bags, 5-speed auto,
auto leveling suspension, rear camera, DVD system, full length moonroof,
totally different interior.

2nd part of your statement, You do realize the old RX300 was 5 years old? I'm sure you know by now, most automakers do complete productions revisions about every 5 years?

3rd part of your statement about the MDX. The MDX merely went through a mid-life cycle product update-You do know many cars do? this usually occurs in the form of power boosts, engine displacement, feature upgrades, and slight body restyling.

I read in another of your posts that the styling is basically the same as the RX300 so why did Lexus bother? Do you know, the luxury segment, styling is usually evolutionary and not revolutionary? Meaning products keep a resemblance to the car they replaced. This usually does not occur with cheaper cars-just look around.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

All those changes you have mentioned on the RX330, the MDX did 80% of those without a so call major redesign. BTW almost all the features on your list are optional, so by the time you get all those options, you are looking at a SUV that is over $50000.
"has a totally different body style".....Hum maybe you need some glasses, looks like the same SUV stretch out another 6 inches. The headlight, tail lights and grill all looks the same, the only difference I see is the D pillar.
I do know that the RX300 is about 5 years old, so maybe its time to invest some money into a new design instead of keep recycling the same old design.
"styling is usually evolutionary and not evolutionary? Meaning products keep a resemblance to the car they replaced"...... Well, is that why all Lexus SUV looks pretty much the same. This may be just a rule that Toyota plays by, it is certainly a cheaper way to go. But why call it a total re-design when it is not. The ML320 will under go a total redesign soon, pictures of the new ML looks very different from the old. Acura replace the SLX with the MDX and its a totally different SUV. The new generation of Infinity SUV looks totally redesigned, it shows that a company is willing to spend alittle money in the R&D department instead of just slapping a new model name on a modify car.

fedlawman · April 2003

So Lexus is more like Porsche?

The 911 hasn't been redesigned since the 1950's, right?

wwest · April 2003

You just described, successfully, the proper procedure for spin-out recovery in a RWD vehicle.

The exact procedure you describe was at one time in the Washington State driver's manual. When I pointed out to them that the procedure was not useful for front wheel drive vehicles they agreed and told me it would be changed in the next edition.

It was changed alright, the entire section was deleted.

Your procedure is only useful if it's the rear end that first loses traction. That is the most common "loss of traction" circumstance for RWD.

The most common "loss of traction" circumstance in a FWD results most typically in understeering, and the recovery for that is entirely different than you describe.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

Hello fedlawman, long time no speak.
You must admit that Porsche is like no other car companies in the world. What they are selling is their engine more than their chassis or design, and no, Lexus is nothing like Porsche. The Porsche company is devoted to being in the forth front of automotive technology and Leuxs is more concerned about profit margin and share holders. Almost all of the Porsche line have maintain its basic design but have gone through many meahanical and minor chassis design changes since the 1950s. The difference is that when Porsche makes these changes, they dont call it a redesign of the vehicle like Lexus did and they dont claim that it is a totally re-design vehicle.
I have test drove the RX300 no more than 6 months ago, I must admit, I was not impress at all. perhap it was not design to impress a middle aged man like me. The best part of the Rx300 was the interior and the quality control, but its really not much better than its complitition and it falls behind in so many other catagories.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

You are right, a FWD vehicle would be a little different than a RWD in a spin out. I also agree that understeer is more likly in a FWD vwhicle while oversteer is more common in a rear RWD vehicle. But many high end FWD vehicle now come with varible torque steering which will eliminate that problem. Either way, you want to have as much control of your vehicle as possible during a spin out. Rather that mean stepping on the gas, hitting the brakes or steering with or against the skid. Every spin out condition is different. I have driven a 4 wheel drive vehicle for many years, alot of the times I would just step on the gas to correct a spin out condition in the rear wheels if road condition permits, cant do that if I am in neutral now, can I?

wwest · April 2003

concerning loss of control of FWD drive vehicles in slippery conditions. The most common circumstance for FWD is some form of understeering resulting from loss of roadbed adhesion at the front. Your ONLY option in that case is to remove some of the need for roadbed adhesion, lighten the "turn", and don't ask the front wheels to do more than determine the direction of the vehicle.

My 78 911, engine in the rear, is also subject to understeering on occassion, in that case, clutch, brakes (lightly), and lightening the turn rate, is the appropriate response.

maxhonda99 · April 2003

hopeitsfriday,

What planet are you on? joke.

"All those changes you have mentioned on the RX330, the MDX did 80% of those without a so call major redesign. BTW almost all the features on your list are optional, so by the time you get all those options, you are looking at a SUV that is over $50000."

Which 80%?
I didn't know Acura did these things for 03:
lengthen the wheelbase
added a stiffer body structure
changed the AWD setup
increased the wheelbase
changed the body style
has many more features inluding Adaptive lighting system, knee airbags, curtain bags, 5-speed auto,
auto leveling suspension, rear camera, DVD system, full length moonroof,
changed the interior

"Hum maybe you need some glasses, looks like the same SUV stretch out another 6 inches. The headlight, tail lights and grill all looks the same, the only difference I see is the D pillar."
Buddy, not to let you in on a little secret or anything, but I have the strong feeling you need glasses, since you don't see the difference.

"Well, is that why all Lexus SUV looks pretty much the same. This may be just a rule that Toyota plays by, it is certainly a cheaper way to go"

Again, another reason why you need glasses. Really, none of the 3 SUVs look anything alike. Would you confuse a RX330 for a GX470 or a LX470?

"Acura replace the SLX with the MDX and its a totally different SUV."

You do realize the SLX wasn't a HONDA Product to begin with? You do realize the SLX was a ISUZU TROOPER that Honda purchased from Isuzu to hold Honda over until they designed their own SUV?

stever · April 2003

I took the written Idaho drivers test today (now that I own a car, I figured it was time to update my license).

Anyway, the Idaho Driver's Manual says this about skids:

"When a skid starts, dont panic and dont hit the brake. Immediately take your foot off the gas pedal, then steer in the direction of the skid. For example, if your rear wheels slide to the right, turn your front wheels toward the right."

link

I seem to recall a long spin-out thread a while back in the 4WD & AWD systems explained discussion.

Steve, Host
(Yeah, I passed the test - missed one question, dang it.)

wwest · April 2003

Almost the exact wording I saw in the WA state driver's manual years ago now. I assumed they would add a section for FWD:

"Skid = understeering" ("PLOWING")

Since FWD is now the dominant vehicle on our roads.

Like:

If you have a clutch use it to disengage the driveline, if you have an automatic transmission, quickly shift it to neutral, then lighten your turn angle until you feel the vehicle begin to respond directionally. Only after your vehicle has regained traction should you again increase the angle of your turn.

Applying the brakes in this circumstance is not a good idea since braking HP is predominatly at the front wheels. If you have practiced applying the emergency/parking brake lightly, assuming it is a rear wheel brake, doing so now is also likely a good idea.

If you drive a FWD vehicle it is a good idea to prepare yourself for the day you encounter serious understeering by practicing applying the parking brake lightly and if equipped with an automatic transmission, quickly shifting it into neutral.

The above is only a suggestion from someone who is extremely adverse to driving a FWD vehicle in the wintertime, any corrections or suggestions openly welcomed.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

wwest...I have alway find FWD vehicle better in the wintertime, you must admit it harder to spin out a FWD than a RWD vehicle. Your theory can also hold true for the rear wheel of a FWD car. If the rear wheels dont have to provide power, than it is easier to keep the rear end of the car on track and less likely to spin out the back side.

maxhonda99......"You do realize the SLX was a ISUZU TROOPER that Honda purchased from Isuzu"
Doh, thanks for that bit of useless imformation, joke. My point is I have never seen a redeign that is so lame. Even thier low end Camry's redeign is much better.
I would not mistake a RX330 for a GX470 or a LX470, but the GX470 does look like RX330 stretch longer and the GX470 just look like more modern version of the LX470. You may disagree, but I believe in quality over quanlity. If Lexus concentrate their effort and R&D dollars from the 3 SUV into 1, They would have a real winner. Instead, the only one of the three that is semi seccessful is the RX300. Toyota's biggest problem is that they got too big. They care more about profit margin than technological innovation. They need to take more of that profit from the share holders and invest it back into R&D.

avery1 · April 2003

You didn't buy an RX. Your choice. That's why they make Fords and Chevys. However, to imply that the best selling luxury SUV with the highest satisfaction rating is not a real winner seems to be stretching the facts to fit your perception of reality.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

The best selling SUV doesnt mean much, what you really should look for is the most demanded SUV. Lexus is the most well known brand out there and I must admit they do have the best commericals, hum, if only they can spend some of that advertising dollars into R&D. The RX300 sold 77000 units last year, while the explorer sold almost 250000 units. The MDX sold around 50000 last year, but could have easily sold 77000 like RX300 if they had the stock, and the same goes for the Volvo XC90.
I am looking at the Edmunds customer satifation rating, before you say it, I know that it is not a 100% accurate, but it is an indication of the real number. RX300 reating was 8.8 while both the XC90 and the MDX recieved ratings of 9.3.

avery1 · April 2003

Just take a look at the XC-90 board. You will find a great deal of dissatisfaction there. I bought one of the first RXs and have followed the RX board from the very beginning and there has never been such dissatisfaction expressed on that board. This is anecdotal I know, but most of the comments I have seen over the years are along the lines of, "I prefer the RX but I need the 3rd row of seats so I am going for the MDX." But I say go for it, that is what the free market is all about.

maxhonda99 · April 2003

"but I believe in quality over quanlity."

Excuse me, english please.

"If Lexus concentrate their effort and R&D dollars from the 3 SUV into 1 They would have a real winner."

Actually they have 3 winners. Have you noticed how the LX470 comes out on top in comparison tests? Have you noticed how the GX470 has scored well in testing and is selling well. And have you noticed the great reviews of the RX330. IT seems to me like you're one of the few who thinks the RX330 looks the same as the RX300.

"Instead, the only one of the three that is semi seccessful is the RX300."
How do you come up with semi seccessful? And can you learn to spell? The RX300 was the best selling SUV in it's class every year it was on the market. The ML-class Benz never caught up, the X5 can't, and the MDX can't.

Tell me, what's the successful SUV in the RX330 segment if the RX300 was merely semi-successful? Same with the GX470 segment and LX470 segment?

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

The XC90 is going through its first year blues, these little problem should go away in a year or two. There is no question that its hard to complain about the quality control of a Lexus RX300, but other than the quality control aspect, there is really no other thing that really stands out. The RX300 is not roomy, its not fast, it doesn't drive sporty, its not the safest SUV, its not the cheapest luxury SUV, it doesn't come with the most options and it doesn't have a good 4 wheel drive system. If you think about it, those are all the things that a SUV should excel in. I was the opposite of what you have heard on the forum, the fact that I didnt need a third row seats but I bought the MDX over the RX300. What I was looking for in a SUV was lots of cargo space, a powerful and refined powertrain, reliability and sporty handling. The RX300 meet the reliability criteria only and the MDX meet them all. I would have bought the XC90 if it had a little more power.

wwest · April 2003

have to be outstanding in any one or two aspects to win the award for OVERALL utility.

The MDX doesn't have HID.

And it, like the RX, is basically FWD only.

If I wanted to be on top of this SUV "heap" I would put the X5 AWD system, and its climate control, in the RX330.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

HID look cool, but they are a safety hazard for other drivers, it is what I call a anti-safety feature. I could have bought a after market but decided against it. The MDX is mostly FWD, but it goes into 4WD mode during accelaration when traction is needed the most and the 4WD mode can also be lock in during tough going unlike the RX300 and the XC90. I wouldnt say the X5 is at the top of the SUV heap, well maybe only in price. I personally would not want 4WD all the time because gas mileage would go to hell, most of these crossovers will not perform as well as as truth 4WD in the snow or off road conditions. The MDX and XC90 has similar climate control system as the RX300. The MDX had a front rear system compare to XC90 and the RX300's front left right system, but you know what, if i had a choice, I would stick with a manual system anyday. I have a automatic climate control system and I run it in manual.

overtime1 · April 2003

After looking very carefully at the MDX and GX I can't help but think that the MDX is what the GX should have been (with Lexus interior/badging and at the GX pricepoint it would have unbelievable appeal). The GX is way too funky in many ways.

As for the RX, I like that vehicle a lot but without a 3rd row seat it really isn't comparable. And what is going on with the interior dimension specs at Toyota/Lexus? First they get caught with shenanigans involving their listed specs with the Sequoia and now they have the RX330 with more cargospace than the MDX and the same as the XC90? Ummm...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to sit in those cars and realize that the MDX has the most space, followed closely by XC90 with the RX way way behind. Come on...its like comparing a VW bug to a Passat wagon and saying the VW has more cargo space. It just obviously does not.

Also, what is up with the really thrashy/harsh engine in the new RX330. Not what I expect from Lexus (the V8 on the GX is niiiiicccceeeeeee!).

wwest, as long as the AWD system as good software behind it I could care less what the split of power is under normal driving conditions. These things react so quickly nowadays...it just doesn't matter.

OT

maxhonda99 · April 2003

"The RX300 is not roomy, its not fast, it doesn't drive sporty, its not the safest SUV, its not the cheapest luxury SUV, it doesn't come with the most options and it doesn't have a good 4 wheel drive system. "

Well, The INstitute for Highway Safety lists the RX300 and MDX as both "Best Picks".

"It's not the cheapest SUV". No duh. Cheapest=Hyundai Sante Fe. Is the MDX "the cheapest"?

Does the MDX come with the most options? I don't think so. I think that honor would fall on the X5.

wwest · April 2003

And how do you find out if it has "good" software?

And I would be willing to bet that being predominantly FWD the RX330 doesn't. I KNOW the RX300 doesn't.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

wwest: A good software makes a bit of difference, but you need a good mechanical system too. How fast can the power be transfer to the rear wheels mechanically. The problem with AWD that is predominantly FWD system is that it has to actually detect a slippage before it shifts power. Those transfer time may be just a fraction of a second, but in a skid situation, those fraction of a second will becomes very important. The X5 sends a percentage of engine power to all the wheels all the time. The MDX goes into 4WD mode every time you accelerate and has a 4WD lock mode. These systems will help alot in the slippery going, but if traction is what you are really after, stick with the old fashion 4WD system that you can pull a lever to engage. Jeep has one of the best system in my opinion, one can select RWD mode, AWD and 4WD mode.

maxhonda99: May I suggest you look at the X5 and the MDX's standard equipment list. Lets compare both vehicle's base model which are price around $36,000. The X5's base vehicle doesn't even come with auto transmission or leather seats. Other standard equipments the MDX has which the X5 doesn't are: Moon roof, heated seats, side impact air bags, auto headlights, climate control, dual zone HVAC system and other misc. items.

wwest · April 2003

The whole thing about AWD is its simplicity, ease of use, no action whatever required of the driver. Go drive a Sequoia or an ML, both of these have brake torque apportioning, and neither is predominantly FWD.

While I like, and actually prefer, the new 4runner style AWD/4WD, the wave of the future is clearly electronically controlled torque distribution using brake modulation.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

Yes I agree, the best set up is a AWD system that one can engage to 4WD.

chavis10 · April 2003

Personally, I don't really see the point of most of these "light duty" all wheel drive systems. They provide no handling benefits. If they operate in FWD mode most of the time, than basically they just add weight. Let's be honest, how often do we find ourselves in situations when we really need 4wd? Meanwhile a system that's truly full time can provide handling benefits and isn't just dead weight. Since the X5 and SRX are based on longitudinal engine/rwd platforms, their AWD systems are always active yielding constant 4 wheel traction. This is a true benefit because as stated by many, FWD is "safer" in bad weather than RWD alone. My point is this: vehicles based on transverse engine/FWD drivelines(RX, MDX, XC-90, etc) won't suffer from the same lose of traction as their RWD competition. Therefore, their AWD systems seem more like a marketing tool than a true benefit. Think about it, let's assume most of these vehicles have a front weight bias and are front wheel driven. In a panic situation, brakes are usually applied and even more weight transfers forward. This adds even more traction to the driven and steered front wheels. What advantage would driven rear wheels provide? None. However, in a RWD vehicle, that same situation could spell disaster. I think most of the part time whimpy systems are a waste of time. If you car is front wheel drive, that's all 95% of us need in my opinion.

greenlatern · April 2003

A month ago the Denver area received a record breaking snowfall; some areas received several FEET of heavy, wet snow. I successfully made it home while my neigbors were getting stuck (yes, I helped dig them out) and made it to work and back each day. (It was quite pleasant being one of the few vehicles on the road). Most impressive to me was the feature known as Dynamic Stability Control. Once you read past the marketing hype what this feature does is keep the vehicle moving in a straight line. I noticed 4WD and FWD vehicles getting sideways on the same streets where the X5's nose stayed straight. A local journalist happened to be reviewing an X5 during the same storm, his thoughts can be found here: http://www.postnewsads.com/budwells/viewarticles.asp?articleID=10- - 4

wwest · April 2003

Gives me the extra "comfort" I need to go snow skiing in the mountains, or visiting relatives over on the dry side in the wintertime.

I would even go so far as to say AWD is needless 99.99% of the time. But its certain availibility that .01% of the time gives me the driving flexibility I desire in the wintertime.

Never used a parachute while flying in the USAF, but it was always close by if not actually strapped to my bod.

maxhonda99 · April 2003

hopeitsfriday,

YOu need to get your information straight about the X5's standard information. You are soo far off the mark.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

It all in here, in the Edmunds site. I will even find the link for you. The standard equipment list is public information, so there is really no disputes about it. I actually almost bought a X5 six months ago, did a lot of research on its pricing and equipment list among other things, I finally decided I couldn't or shouldn't afford one. To get a X5 with just the very basis options, I was looking at about $44,000 not including tax.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/bmw/x5/100184361/standard.html?ti- d=edmunds.n.prices.leftsidenav..7.BMW*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/bmw/x5/100184361/options.html?tid- =edmunds.n.standard.leftsidenav..2.BMW*

maxhonda99 · April 2003

hopeitsfriday,

According to BMW's own website, automatic climate control is standard as are side airbags. What it says is that rear side airbags are optional. And don't forget, the X5 comes with standard HPS airbags for the front, which the MDX can't come close to.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

Care to provide the link to your statements, since its so hard to find anything in the BMW site. I couldn't find anywhere that list climate control as standard equipment on the base X5, but I do stand corrected that the base X5 does come with side impact airbags. Not sure what HPC airbags are but Acura just redesign all their air bag hardware and software in 03, so what ever technology BMW has, its already lagging behind.
The debate was which SUV has more standard equipments. You tried to debate 2 piece of standard equipment out of the 8 that I have mentioned. I think its pretty clear that the MDX comes with much more standard equipment than the X5.

maxhonda99 · April 2003

hoepitsfriday,

The point is you continuously provide false information. ANd you really don't have 8 things. Who is really going to base their decision on a car purchase on something so little as auto headlights and heated seats? what do heated seats cost on the X5? $500?

The X5 offers many things, the MDX doesn't, some of which are things that are not readily noticeable. For one, I would feel safer in a X5 as opposed to the MDX(not saying the MDX is unsafe), for seconds, for those looking for it, the X5 handles exceptionally well. In fact it would probably outhandle the Acura 3.2TL & 3.5RL.

You don't what HPS Airbags are? Try head protection airbags. They are the tube-like airbags that protect the heads of the front seat occupants. These are additional to the door mounted side impact bags. Does Acura offer these?
Software updates don't really make up for actual safety equipment such as additional bags which the X5 and the RX330 have.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget, BMW charges extra for the badge on the hood. I wouldn't pay for it(personally I think you made the right decision as I would buy the MDX also).

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

If we both agree that the MDX is a better value and has more standard equipments than the X5, then why are we even talking about this.
BTW, the MDX does have HPS airbags that comes out from the front seats.
The debate was which SUV has more standard equipments not which SUV people will buy based on these equipments. Although, it may be $500 here or $1000 there, they will add up fast. To buy a X5 that is comparable in equipment to a MDX base, we are talking at least $46000 as compare to the MDX at $36000. Of course with the higher price tag, the BMW will handle better, but the MDX offers many things, the X5 doesn't as well. The MDX has more cargo room, more people room, better gas mileage, lower emission engine and it is much much more reliable.
PS, If safety is high on your priority list, the XC90 is the way to go, not the X5.

maxhonda99 · April 2003

hopeitsfriday,

Okay, let's get real. The MDX does not have HPS airbags. Why? Because the BMW X5's come out from the A-pillar and the over the top of the door frame. The Acura's merely is a enlarged version of the standard side seat mounted bag.

If the X5 is soo much more, why even compare them? obviously they are in 2 totally different price classes.

The MDX also has a cheap-o interior compared to the X5. And as I said before, let's not forget the BMW is more expensive, because people are willing to pay more for a BMW.

So are you saying the X5 isn't safe? Many of the SUVs are on the top rung of the safety ladder, among them the XC90, MDX, X5, ML, RX330 and I'm sure some others.

For $46,000 the X5 will also have features the MDX won't even have standard or optional-like I said before Head Airbags heated steering wheel, 18" wheels, auto up down windows all around, and more.

check out standard and optional features at bmwusa.com

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

Hate to correct you once again. The heated steering wheel and the 18" wheels are optional equipment on the X5 and the auto up / down window is standard equipment on the MDX. The head air bags may be different types, but its function is the same, but as I mention before, If you want a SUV with lots of air bags, the XC90 has 11 of them. The X5 does have a nicer interior but at a very hefty price, there is also some material issues with the X5's interior.
I agree that most SUV in this price range is pretty safe, thats one of the reason why I didnt buy a XC90.

fedlawman · April 2003

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the MDX has more standard features and better reliability than the X5, and although it doesn't offer quite the same degree of sportiness, luxury, or safety, the $10,000 price savings more than makes up for the MDX's subtle shortcomings.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

I won't say that the MDX has any short coming when compare to the X5. While the X5 is more sporty and luxurious, the MDX had more space, better gas mailage, better reliability and I think the MDX is safer because its a bigger SUV.
With the same equipment installed, the X5 is about $10k more. I personally dont think the X5 is worth $10k more than the MDX. Perhaps they can get rid of that BMW brand name and the car will be at least $5000 cheaper.

bodble2 · April 2003

Doesn't the X5 come standard with a more sophisticated stability and traction control system, cornering brake control, dynamic brake control, Hill-Descent plus steptronic on the auto tranny? Those must account at least for part of the price difference.

wwest · April 2003

That the X5 is the best of the lot, the VERY best!

RWD biased, stability control, HID, etc.

Just a real shame it's made by BMW and not Toyota and costs too much.

wmquan · April 2003

Did Acura really add head-protection air bags to the 2003's (in the form of an enlarged side airbag, ala the Rendezvous, Forester, etc.)? Is there a link to this information? The only picture I could find on the Acura website makes it look like the side airbags are still the old-fashioned ones that only cushion your abdomen, and not your head.

The MDX probably won't get side-curtain airbags until the 2004 or 2005 model year. Honda finally has the technology now, starting with the 2003 Accord and 2004 TSX.

fedlawman · April 2003

wwest - Hi Willard, long time no see! Actually the MDX now has stability control which was added in an attempt to correct for severe oversteer at the limit and also to catch up to marketing trends established by BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus. No doubt, however, that on any road, the X5 is dynamically superior to the MDX.

wmquan - You're right, the MDX's side airbags still offer no head protection. Of course, now that the market leaders have them, Honda/Acura will no doubt follow suit, as usual.

hopeitsfriday - I priced out a BMW X5 3.0 with automatic and moonroof and got a TMV of $41,800. The TMV I got for an Acura MDX Touring is $39,800...that's only a $2000 difference.

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

I didnt go by TMV, instead I use the MSRP. I think we all know that the TMV is not always right. I know for a fact that there is very little negotiation room on both SUV and I dont think anyone is still paying a premium over MSRP for the MDX.
I price out an X5 with the premium package, dakota Leather Upholstery, auto transmission, cold weather and climate package. The MSRP for X5 with the equipment mentioned above is: $48,170, and $38,800 for the MDX touring.
As you can see, still about a $10,000 difference.

maxhonda99 · April 2003

hopeitsfriday,

Re: Post #455.

"the MDX had more space, better gas mailage, better reliability and I think the MDX is safer because its a bigger SUV."

Flawed thinking my friend. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean safer. Also, I'm sure the BMW is heavier, which matters more. You know about a little thing called Momentum? Also if I was buying a SUV with safety being the one and only criteria, I would jump on a X5 since despite what you say, the X5 does have head airbags and the MDX surely does not.

So, what happens if somebody doesn't need all the space the MDX offers? Is the MDX still a better SUV? Or what if one values handling in a SUV over space? Is the MDX still the better SUV? How about someone who want's more safety equipment? is the MDX still the better SUV?

hopeitsfriday · April 2003

Yes, I do know about Momentum, but in this case, weight is not really an issue. The MDX's curb weight is 4473, while the X5 comes in at 4533. A difference of 60 pounds, all things considered, it weights the same. If one SUV is safer than another, it not by much, they are both safe SUVs.
If I was buying a SUV with safety being the one and only criteria, the XC90 is prabably safer than both of these SUV.
If you doesn't need all the space and values handling over space? Then you should consider a 318XI, its got the same 4WD system as the X5 and its a bit sportier and also a bit cheaper.

adp3 · April 2003

how will the SRX compare to the X5? It won't be as light or nimble as a 318xi, but it should be lighter than an X5

probably lighter than an XC90

Will it handle better?

How has Cadillac reliability been? As good as BMW? As good as the MDX?

I could buy a Rendezvous with the new engine, and just a buy a new one when I got tired of it or the handles started falling off, and STILL not spend what an X5 costs.

fedlawman · April 2003

The Premium package costs $4000! Does anyone really need power rear seatbacks, poplar wood trim, and power passenger seat?

Instead, get an X5 with leatherette (the MDX seats are mostly vinyl, after all) and get the specific options you want a la carte.

overtime1 · April 2003

Or what if one values handling in a SUV over space?

Then you buy a wagon that handles well - WRX comes to mind. Half the price of the 3.0 X5, same (or more) cargo space, and demolishes the X5 in speed and handling (and mileage). Downsides - not as lux and ride height isn't there. If you want lux go Audi S4 for a lot more money and then you are only trading off ride height and a nice looking emblem (not that Audi's isn't nice).

Interesting tradeoffs if handling is your thing.

OT

Volvo XC90 vs MB M Class vs Acura MDX vs Lexus RX 350 vs BMW X5 vs Cadillac SRX

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