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I wouldnt say that Cadillac is in the cutting edge with their front wheel drive technology. Look toward European and Japanese cars for the best handling FWD cars.
*** the point wherein the front wheels are neither driving nor braking the vehicle and the contact patch can be dedicated to directional control/recovery. Clutches work beautifully for this but there are so very few of them out there any more and the alternative is quickly moving the transmission into neutral.
Standard Spin out precedure is to step on the brakes and steer in the direction of the skid until you gain control, unless you have VSC. In the better front wheel drive cars, the front wheel can control the vehicle just as well if you applied braking or throttle to it.
"I am just wondering why and where is the redesign? Toyota could have done all those changes without a total re-design. The MDX did from 02 to 03."
WHat's the wondering about?
Let's see the RX330:
is more powerful
more fuel efficient
stiffer body structure
has a different AWD setup
is 6" longer
has a longer wheelbase
has a totally different body style.
has many more features inluding Adaptive lighting system, knee airbags, curtain bags, 5-speed auto,
auto leveling suspension, rear camera, DVD system, full length moonroof,
totally different interior.
2nd part of your statement, You do realize the old RX300 was 5 years old? I'm sure you know by now, most automakers do complete productions revisions about every 5 years?
3rd part of your statement about the MDX. The MDX merely went through a mid-life cycle product update-You do know many cars do? this usually occurs in the form of power boosts, engine displacement, feature upgrades, and slight body restyling.
I read in another of your posts that the styling is basically the same as the RX300 so why did Lexus bother? Do you know, the luxury segment, styling is usually evolutionary and not revolutionary? Meaning products keep a resemblance to the car they replaced. This usually does not occur with cheaper cars-just look around.
"has a totally different body style".....Hum maybe you need some glasses, looks like the same SUV stretch out another 6 inches. The headlight, tail lights and grill all looks the same, the only difference I see is the D pillar.
I do know that the RX300 is about 5 years old, so maybe its time to invest some money into a new design instead of keep recycling the same old design.
"styling is usually evolutionary and not evolutionary? Meaning products keep a resemblance to the car they replaced"...... Well, is that why all Lexus SUV looks pretty much the same. This may be just a rule that Toyota plays by, it is certainly a cheaper way to go. But why call it a total re-design when it is not. The ML320 will under go a total redesign soon, pictures of the new ML looks very different from the old. Acura replace the SLX with the MDX and its a totally different SUV. The new generation of Infinity SUV looks totally redesigned, it shows that a company is willing to spend alittle money in the R&D department instead of just slapping a new model name on a modify car.
The 911 hasn't been redesigned since the 1950's, right?
The exact procedure you describe was at one time in the Washington State driver's manual. When I pointed out to them that the procedure was not useful for front wheel drive vehicles they agreed and told me it would be changed in the next edition.
It was changed alright, the entire section was deleted.
Your procedure is only useful if it's the rear end that first loses traction. That is the most common "loss of traction" circumstance for RWD.
The most common "loss of traction" circumstance in a FWD results most typically in understeering, and the recovery for that is entirely different than you describe.
You must admit that Porsche is like no other car companies in the world. What they are selling is their engine more than their chassis or design, and no, Lexus is nothing like Porsche. The Porsche company is devoted to being in the forth front of automotive technology and Leuxs is more concerned about profit margin and share holders. Almost all of the Porsche line have maintain its basic design but have gone through many meahanical and minor chassis design changes since the 1950s. The difference is that when Porsche makes these changes, they dont call it a redesign of the vehicle like Lexus did and they dont claim that it is a totally re-design vehicle.
I have test drove the RX300 no more than 6 months ago, I must admit, I was not impress at all. perhap it was not design to impress a middle aged man like me. The best part of the Rx300 was the interior and the quality control, but its really not much better than its complitition and it falls behind in so many other catagories.
My 78 911, engine in the rear, is also subject to understeering on occassion, in that case, clutch, brakes (lightly), and lightening the turn rate, is the appropriate response.
What planet are you on? joke.
"All those changes you have mentioned on the RX330, the MDX did 80% of those without a so call major redesign. BTW almost all the features on your list are optional, so by the time you get all those options, you are looking at a SUV that is over $50000."
Which 80%?
I didn't know Acura did these things for 03:
lengthen the wheelbase
added a stiffer body structure
changed the AWD setup
increased the wheelbase
changed the body style
has many more features inluding Adaptive lighting system, knee airbags, curtain bags, 5-speed auto,
auto leveling suspension, rear camera, DVD system, full length moonroof,
changed the interior
"Hum maybe you need some glasses, looks like the same SUV stretch out another 6 inches. The headlight, tail lights and grill all looks the same, the only difference I see is the D pillar."
Buddy, not to let you in on a little secret or anything, but I have the strong feeling you need glasses, since you don't see the difference.
"Well, is that why all Lexus SUV looks pretty much the same. This may be just a rule that Toyota plays by, it is certainly a cheaper way to go"
Again, another reason why you need glasses. Really, none of the 3 SUVs look anything alike. Would you confuse a RX330 for a GX470 or a LX470?
"Acura replace the SLX with the MDX and its a totally different SUV."
You do realize the SLX wasn't a HONDA Product to begin with? You do realize the SLX was a ISUZU TROOPER that Honda purchased from Isuzu to hold Honda over until they designed their own SUV?
Anyway, the Idaho Driver's Manual says this about skids:
"When a skid starts, don’t panic and don’t hit the brake. Immediately take your foot off the gas pedal, then steer in the direction of the skid. For example, if your rear wheels slide to the right, turn your front wheels toward the right."
link
I seem to recall a long spin-out thread a while back in the 4WD & AWD systems explained discussion.
Steve, Host
(Yeah, I passed the test - missed one question, dang it.)
"Skid = understeering" ("PLOWING")
Since FWD is now the dominant vehicle on our roads.
Like:
If you have a clutch use it to disengage the driveline, if you have an automatic transmission, quickly shift it to neutral, then lighten your turn angle until you feel the vehicle begin to respond directionally. Only after your vehicle has regained traction should you again increase the angle of your turn.
Applying the brakes in this circumstance is not a good idea since braking HP is predominatly at the front wheels. If you have practiced applying the emergency/parking brake lightly, assuming it is a rear wheel brake, doing so now is also likely a good idea.
If you drive a FWD vehicle it is a good idea to prepare yourself for the day you encounter serious understeering by practicing applying the parking brake lightly and if equipped with an automatic transmission, quickly shifting it into neutral.
The above is only a suggestion from someone who is extremely adverse to driving a FWD vehicle in the wintertime, any corrections or suggestions openly welcomed.
maxhonda99......"You do realize the SLX was a ISUZU TROOPER that Honda purchased from Isuzu"
Doh, thanks for that bit of useless imformation, joke. My point is I have never seen a redeign that is so lame. Even thier low end Camry's redeign is much better.
I would not mistake a RX330 for a GX470 or a LX470, but the GX470 does look like RX330 stretch longer and the GX470 just look like more modern version of the LX470. You may disagree, but I believe in quality over quanlity. If Lexus concentrate their effort and R&D dollars from the 3 SUV into 1, They would have a real winner. Instead, the only one of the three that is semi seccessful is the RX300. Toyota's biggest problem is that they got too big. They care more about profit margin than technological innovation. They need to take more of that profit from the share holders and invest it back into R&D.
I am looking at the Edmunds customer satifation rating, before you say it, I know that it is not a 100% accurate, but it is an indication of the real number. RX300 reating was 8.8 while both the XC90 and the MDX recieved ratings of 9.3.
Excuse me, english please.
"If Lexus concentrate their effort and R&D dollars from the 3 SUV into 1 They would have a real winner."
Actually they have 3 winners. Have you noticed how the LX470 comes out on top in comparison tests? Have you noticed how the GX470 has scored well in testing and is selling well. And have you noticed the great reviews of the RX330. IT seems to me like you're one of the few who thinks the RX330 looks the same as the RX300.
"Instead, the only one of the three that is semi seccessful is the RX300."
How do you come up with semi seccessful? And can you learn to spell? The RX300 was the best selling SUV in it's class every year it was on the market. The ML-class Benz never caught up, the X5 can't, and the MDX can't.
Tell me, what's the successful SUV in the RX330 segment if the RX300 was merely semi-successful? Same with the GX470 segment and LX470 segment?
The MDX doesn't have HID.
And it, like the RX, is basically FWD only.
If I wanted to be on top of this SUV "heap" I would put the X5 AWD system, and its climate control, in the RX330.
As for the RX, I like that vehicle a lot but without a 3rd row seat it really isn't comparable. And what is going on with the interior dimension specs at Toyota/Lexus? First they get caught with shenanigans involving their listed specs with the Sequoia and now they have the RX330 with more cargospace than the MDX and the same as the XC90? Ummm...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to sit in those cars and realize that the MDX has the most space, followed closely by XC90 with the RX way way behind. Come on...its like comparing a VW bug to a Passat wagon and saying the VW has more cargo space. It just obviously does not.
Also, what is up with the really thrashy/harsh engine in the new RX330. Not what I expect from Lexus (the V8 on the GX is niiiiicccceeeeeee!).
wwest, as long as the AWD system as good software behind it I could care less what the split of power is under normal driving conditions. These things react so quickly nowadays...it just doesn't matter.
OT
Well, The INstitute for Highway Safety lists the RX300 and MDX as both "Best Picks".
"It's not the cheapest SUV". No duh. Cheapest=Hyundai Sante Fe. Is the MDX "the cheapest"?
Does the MDX come with the most options? I don't think so. I think that honor would fall on the X5.
And I would be willing to bet that being predominantly FWD the RX330 doesn't. I KNOW the RX300 doesn't.
maxhonda99: May I suggest you look at the X5 and the MDX's standard equipment list. Lets compare both vehicle's base model which are price around $36,000. The X5's base vehicle doesn't even come with auto transmission or leather seats. Other standard equipments the MDX has which the X5 doesn't are: Moon roof, heated seats, side impact air bags, auto headlights, climate control, dual zone HVAC system and other misc. items.
While I like, and actually prefer, the new 4runner style AWD/4WD, the wave of the future is clearly electronically controlled torque distribution using brake modulation.
I would even go so far as to say AWD is needless 99.99% of the time. But its certain availibility that .01% of the time gives me the driving flexibility I desire in the wintertime.
Never used a parachute while flying in the USAF, but it was always close by if not actually strapped to my bod.
YOu need to get your information straight about the X5's standard information. You are soo far off the mark.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/bmw/x5/100184361/standard.html?ti- d=edmunds.n.prices.leftsidenav..7.BMW*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/bmw/x5/100184361/options.html?tid- =edmunds.n.standard.leftsidenav..2.BMW*
According to BMW's own website, automatic climate control is standard as are side airbags. What it says is that rear side airbags are optional. And don't forget, the X5 comes with standard HPS airbags for the front, which the MDX can't come close to.
The debate was which SUV has more standard equipments. You tried to debate 2 piece of standard equipment out of the 8 that I have mentioned. I think its pretty clear that the MDX comes with much more standard equipment than the X5.
The point is you continuously provide false information. ANd you really don't have 8 things. Who is really going to base their decision on a car purchase on something so little as auto headlights and heated seats? what do heated seats cost on the X5? $500?
The X5 offers many things, the MDX doesn't, some of which are things that are not readily noticeable. For one, I would feel safer in a X5 as opposed to the MDX(not saying the MDX is unsafe), for seconds, for those looking for it, the X5 handles exceptionally well. In fact it would probably outhandle the Acura 3.2TL & 3.5RL.
You don't what HPS Airbags are? Try head protection airbags. They are the tube-like airbags that protect the heads of the front seat occupants. These are additional to the door mounted side impact bags. Does Acura offer these?
Software updates don't really make up for actual safety equipment such as additional bags which the X5 and the RX330 have.
Oh yeah, and let's not forget, BMW charges extra for the badge on the hood. I wouldn't pay for it(personally I think you made the right decision as I would buy the MDX also).
BTW, the MDX does have HPS airbags that comes out from the front seats.
The debate was which SUV has more standard equipments not which SUV people will buy based on these equipments. Although, it may be $500 here or $1000 there, they will add up fast. To buy a X5 that is comparable in equipment to a MDX base, we are talking at least $46000 as compare to the MDX at $36000. Of course with the higher price tag, the BMW will handle better, but the MDX offers many things, the X5 doesn't as well. The MDX has more cargo room, more people room, better gas mileage, lower emission engine and it is much much more reliable.
PS, If safety is high on your priority list, the XC90 is the way to go, not the X5.
Okay, let's get real. The MDX does not have HPS airbags. Why? Because the BMW X5's come out from the A-pillar and the over the top of the door frame. The Acura's merely is a enlarged version of the standard side seat mounted bag.
If the X5 is soo much more, why even compare them? obviously they are in 2 totally different price classes.
The MDX also has a cheap-o interior compared to the X5. And as I said before, let's not forget the BMW is more expensive, because people are willing to pay more for a BMW.
So are you saying the X5 isn't safe? Many of the SUVs are on the top rung of the safety ladder, among them the XC90, MDX, X5, ML, RX330 and I'm sure some others.
For $46,000 the X5 will also have features the MDX won't even have standard or optional-like I said before Head Airbags heated steering wheel, 18" wheels, auto up down windows all around, and more.
check out standard and optional features at bmwusa.com
I agree that most SUV in this price range is pretty safe, thats one of the reason why I didnt buy a XC90.
With the same equipment installed, the X5 is about $10k more. I personally dont think the X5 is worth $10k more than the MDX. Perhaps they can get rid of that BMW brand name and the car will be at least $5000 cheaper.
RWD biased, stability control, HID, etc.
Just a real shame it's made by BMW and not Toyota and costs too much.
The MDX probably won't get side-curtain airbags until the 2004 or 2005 model year. Honda finally has the technology now, starting with the 2003 Accord and 2004 TSX.
wmquan - You're right, the MDX's side airbags still offer no head protection. Of course, now that the market leaders have them, Honda/Acura will no doubt follow suit, as usual.
hopeitsfriday - I priced out a BMW X5 3.0 with automatic and moonroof and got a TMV of $41,800. The TMV I got for an Acura MDX Touring is $39,800...that's only a $2000 difference.
I price out an X5 with the premium package, dakota Leather Upholstery, auto transmission, cold weather and climate package. The MSRP for X5 with the equipment mentioned above is: $48,170, and $38,800 for the MDX touring.
As you can see, still about a $10,000 difference.
Re: Post #455.
"the MDX had more space, better gas mailage, better reliability and I think the MDX is safer because its a bigger SUV."
Flawed thinking my friend. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean safer. Also, I'm sure the BMW is heavier, which matters more. You know about a little thing called Momentum? Also if I was buying a SUV with safety being the one and only criteria, I would jump on a X5 since despite what you say, the X5 does have head airbags and the MDX surely does not.
So, what happens if somebody doesn't need all the space the MDX offers? Is the MDX still a better SUV? Or what if one values handling in a SUV over space? Is the MDX still the better SUV? How about someone who want's more safety equipment? is the MDX still the better SUV?
If I was buying a SUV with safety being the one and only criteria, the XC90 is prabably safer than both of these SUV.
If you doesn't need all the space and values handling over space? Then you should consider a 318XI, its got the same 4WD system as the X5 and its a bit sportier and also a bit cheaper.
probably lighter than an XC90
Will it handle better?
How has Cadillac reliability been? As good as BMW? As good as the MDX?
I could buy a Rendezvous with the new engine, and just a buy a new one when I got tired of it or the handles started falling off, and STILL not spend what an X5 costs.
Instead, get an X5 with leatherette (the MDX seats are mostly vinyl, after all) and get the specific options you want a la carte.
Then you buy a wagon that handles well - WRX comes to mind. Half the price of the 3.0 X5, same (or more) cargo space, and demolishes the X5 in speed and handling (and mileage). Downsides - not as lux and ride height isn't there. If you want lux go Audi S4 for a lot more money and then you are only trading off ride height and a nice looking emblem (not that Audi's isn't nice).
Interesting tradeoffs if handling is your thing.
OT