Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

ab348 · August 2014

@Mr_Shiftright said:
Do you think there are still many E350 coupes in inventory? I would suspect that choice of colors and options would have shrunk down by now.

Certainly there is nothing available locally. The local dealer has one E series coupe in inventory, an E350 with the AMG dressup package at the low, low list price of $73,000. It is black/black, my least favorite color combo so I have little interest. They have a dozen or so sedans, some E250 4-cyl diesels, the rest E300s and E350s. All except 1 or 2 have black interiors which is how this dealer (the same ownership group where I leased my Regal) tends to order most of their cars for stock. How my Regal arrived with a cashmere interior must have been a mistake.

Realistically I won't be doing anything for a few months at least and most likely not until next spring so this is mostly academic for mow. I was surprised at the affordability of the lease payments though. Gives me an option I really hadn't thought about before.

graphicguy · August 2014

Mako....like you, I was never shown the door, but was ignored.

I remember it well. I was in the market for an IS350 when they first came out. Went to the local Lexus dealer. Found a beautiful grey one. It was loaded with Mark Levinson, Nav, all the gee gaws.

As I'm want to do, I figured a price that allowed the dealer what I considered a good margin, since I took into account the car had just come out. But, as I'm also want to do, it was an out the door price....taxes, tags, doc fees, everything.

I presented it. They countered. I told them I was all in. They came back with my number PLUS some irritating stuff like tire insurance, doc fees. It added up to about $500 more than my "one time" offer.

I told the slesperson again, "I'm all in". He said he'd take it back to his manager to see if we could make a deal. I waited, and waited, and waited, 15 minutes, 20 minutes. No sales person. Finally, I go to the receptionist to ask where my sales person went. She said he went home for the day.

WHAT?

I was livid. I stormed out of the dealership. Wrote a letter to the dealership principal explaining what happened. He called me. Apologized. Said he had seen my offer and they agreed to accept it.

Sales person calls back minutes later. I asked him what the deal was leaving me hanging. He was honest and said the deal was too skinny for him, but that the dealer prinicipal said he told him to accept it. No sorry I left you at my desk while I went home. No, "hey, we can't do this deal, but thanks for coming in".

i told him I didn't want his deal, and to tell his dealer principal to call me to find out why.

Of course he didn't. But, when the secretary to the dealer principal followed up with me a day later, I informed her of how poorly this lost deal went.

Not sure what happened after that. I only started to go back into the Lexus showrooms again just recently.

They're all about making a deal, now.

henryn · August 2014

What exactly is a "dealer principal"?

mako1a · August 2014

GG, I guess sensitive guys like us need to prepare well for some callous dealings when trading cars. Like you, I don't need financing. I also go for the OTD offer in most cases which makes the salesman little more than an errand boy in and out of the GM's office. No wonder they leave for the day without warning. All that training up in smoke. Oh well "It's only Business".

oldfarmer50 · August 2014

@henryn said:
What exactly is a "dealer principal"?

I think it's the head of a school who sells drugs.

mako1a · August 2014

@henryn said:
What exactly is a "dealer principal"?

I should let Mike answer this, but I'm pretty sure it's the dealership owner.

graphicguy · August 2014

Dealer Principal is the manager of all day to day functions over every dept of the dealership. Usually, but not neccessarily, the dealership's owner.

Mako...you've been around here a good long while. You are knowledgeable, level headed and courteous. To ignore you at a dealership seems like a travesty.

Sometimes I wonder if dealerships prefer customers who know absolutely nothing about buying a car vs someone who does research and has more experience?

mako1a · August 2014

Then again flip flops and shorts topped off with a Steeler jersey may not be what MB dealerships are used to dealing with. lol

henryn · August 2014

Thanks for the clarification, I had never seen the term before.

Many businesses have a “fake manager” or “pretend general manager” who does nothing but listen to angry customers. I first encountered this at a Ford dealership back around 1990, and I encountered it at a branch of Chase Bank in 2002. It’s kind of obvious if you actually talk to the person, they generally know absolutely nothing about the actual business, their job is to just listen calmly until you vent all of your anger / frustration.

driver100 · August 2014

@bwia said:
To me they look the same

2014 Chrysler sedan:

2015 Genesis

Maybe not the best pictures to compare but I have been out all day and wanted to get them off quickly...you asked so nicely bwia.

For the record, I find the 2014 Audi A4 similar to;

a 2014 Mitsubishi Lancer;

imidazol97 · August 2014

When I see the Legacy ad run, I think it's a Fusion.

jayrider · August 2014

Car shopping is much more relaxing when you go in expecting to be treated poorly. Just smile, be respectful and focus on the numbers. If you are left waiting for more than 5 minutes get up and find out what's happening. If you can't agree on a price in an hour, just leave.

driver100 · August 2014

Mike, I wouldn't call trading a CL550 for an E400 a trade down...it is really just trading for what suits you.

When I was a teenager I got my father to buy a 64 Ford Galaxie 500 XL. He hated the "bucket" seats, which really bothered his back.

He traded it in for a regualar 65 Ford Galaxie 500 sedan, and he loved that car, bench seats and all;

More expensive doesn't necessarily mean the car is going to suit you as well.

oldfarmer50 · August 2014

@mako1a said:
Then again flip flops and shorts topped off with a Steeler jersey may not be what MB dealerships are used to dealing with. lol

We had a discussion back on the old Stories board where several salespeople mentioned looking at a customer's watch to judge their worthiness. Rolex--good, Timex--stroke.

I've gone car shopping dressed one step down from a homeless person and had them make assumptions about my credit score that were wrong. It was fun letting them know how wrong.

I would have walked over that treatment.

explorerx4 · August 2014

Regarding electric cars, they suit the driving habits of some people. A guy at work has a Volt and says he puts a few gallons in the tank every 4 months.

jayrider · August 2014

@explorerx4 said:
Regarding electric cars, they suit the driving habits of some people. A guy at work has a Volt and says he puts a few gallons in the tank every 4 months.

I could absolutely work with a total electric car for my in town driving. Problem is that I drive so little that any gas savings would take decades to recoup after I take a beating trading in my Prius.

cdnpinhead · August 2014

@graphicguy said:> Sometimes I wonder if dealerships prefer customers who know absolutely nothing about buying a car vs someone who does research and has more experience?

As Maynard said many decades ago, "surely you jest." Customers who know absolutely nothing are their bread and butter. OTOH, an informed buyer who has an OTD number that they can live with can get a deal done in 15 minutes, as many of us know.

But, I think we're rare.

bwia · August 2014

>@driver100

Thanks *driver, the grilles do look the same. I don't understand the fetish with these huge grills. They look awful and gawdy. It works for Audi but not for many other cars.

driver100 · August 2014

@imidazol97 said:
When I see the Legacy ad run, I think it's a Fusion.

I think they are running out of designs. It's like music, they have to keep bringing back old songs. Or movies, they keep making sequels.....must be a limited number of things you can do with a grill.

No one will be copying the grille on the 2015 Ford 150

stickguy · August 2014

better than the early 90s when the grill less look was going around.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2014

@driver100 said: No one will be copying the grille on the 2015 Ford 150

Makes me want to put a nickel into it.

ab348 · August 2014

@stickguy said:
better than the early 90s when the grill less look was going around.

I quite liked some of those.

oldfarmer50 · August 2014

@driver100 said:
No one will be copying the grille on the 2015 Ford 150

Dodge started that high hood look 15 years ago and I never really liked it. How do you see over the front of that thing? Even the hood of my school bus slopes down. Next they'll have to install cameras on the hood to make sure you can see people in front of you.

This is the last good looking F-150. Just like the one I owned.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/1985f250.JPG

driver100 · August 2014

@oldfarmer50 saidNext they'll have to install cameras on the hood to make sure you can see people in front of you.This is the last good looking F-150. Just like the one I owned.

I really like your old F 150 more than the new ones. They should do a retro look F 150!

stickguy · August 2014

I like the rounded generation. Seems positively petite next to a new truck (any brand).

driver100 · August 2014

@stickguy said:
I like the rounded generation. Seems positively petite next to a new truck (any brand).

Now this is what I call a truck.

stever · August 2014

My mom drove a GMC pickup for a few years in the late 60's (that was back in her pipe smoking days). Seemed a bit newer than the green Colorado one. I remember the far right headlight housing was messed up and you'd light up the tree tops along the shoulder driving along at night.

ray80 · August 2014

@stever said:
I remember the far right headlight housing was messed up and you'd light up the tree tops along the shoulder driving along at night.

I think anyone with some age on them has driven one of those 'sky searcher headlight' vehicles at one time or another

roadburner · August 2014

@abacomike said:
abacomike‌

We just had a long discussion and we decided I am going to fly home to Florida Friday morning (the day after my son sees the neurosurgeon) because the feedback we received is that before they do anything, the are going to try to determine if the tumor is operable and if it's benign or malignant. That will involve more tests and probably a biopsy.

We will keep praying...

roadburner · August 2014

@oldfarmer50 said:
Yeah, even I wouldn't try to run a car to 350k miles. That transmission job would send most of my cars to the crusher.

I'll probably get to 200k miles on the X3- and the '02 is aleady there. The ti is nearing 140k and the Mazda is at 142k, making the Wrangler and 328i the youngsters of the bunch...

roadburner · August 2014

@graphicguy said:
Mako....like you, I was never shown the door, but was ignored.
They're all about making a deal, now.

Back in 2000 or so I got really jacked around by the local Audi dealer. We told them we were buying w/in the next week and they spent @1 hour penciling a deal which was the advertised price for a CPO A4 and $2000 back of book for my wife's car. The guy said to come back in a few days and the regular used car manager would be in and maybe they could do better. We drove straight over to the BMW dealer and my wife bought a CPO 528i...

oldfarmer50 · August 2014

@roadburner said:
Back in 2000 or so I got really jacked around by the local Audi dealer. We told them we were buying w/in the next week and they spent @1 hour penciling a deal which was the advertised price for a CPO A4 and $2000 back of book for my wife's car. The guy said to come back in a few days and the regular used car manager would be in and maybe they could do better. We drove straight over to the BMW dealer and my wife bought a CPO 528i...

You probably were wearing the wrong kind of watch.

ab348 · August 2014

@stever said:
My mom drove a GMC pickup for a few years in the late 60's **(that was back in her pipe smoking days). **

All right, that last part just needs more explanation. I've known the odd lady to smoke cigars, but a pipe?

stever · August 2014

Well, she did grow up in Mississippi although she didn't smoke the traditional Appalachian corn cob pipe.

She tried to quit smoking now and then and affected the pipe for a couple of years in an attempt to wean herself from the cigs, but only at home. Didn't work but she finally quit in her late 70s following a six week rehab after a stroke. Still doing okay at 92 and claims it's because she never inhaled (but I sure got a lot of second-hand stuff over the years).

abacomike · August 2014

@henryn said:

"What exactly is a "dealer principal"?"

Yes, the dealer principal(s) is the owner of a dealership. They are corporate officers - usually the president and CEO or COO.

roadburner · August 2014

@oldfarmer50 said:d
You probably were wearing the wrong kind of watch.

The thing is, I had a friend who knew the owner of the Audi dealer and he called and actually set up the appointment. I'd hate to see how the y treat somebody that walks in off the street.

In contrast, I served on the BOD of a local charity and another member was a very sweet elderly lady who had a son who owned a Jeep dealership. I called her when I was hunting for a used Wrangler and she called her son- within 10 minutes a salesman called and said "The owner Mr XYZ has told me to find you a great Wrangler at a rock bottom price."

He did...

driver100 · August 2014

Something to think about.

I saw my friend who has the Maserati, which he still loves, but he first bought a Fiat 500 to get around in the winter, because the Mas won't go in snow.

Then his wife thought the Fiat was too unsafe, so he got a 2013 Genesis, that was loaded for a good price, $38K Cdn or about $34K US.

He hates the Genesis. He says it has all the options, people love riding in it, but it is really boring. He says it isn't worth much because the 2015s are much improved, so the value really sunk. He is really getting interested in the E-Class and he loves the idea of a V8 (which will be available in Canada). He says his wife won't let him get another car, but, that hasn't stopped him before.

Something to think about. Life is short, don't compromise, get what you really want if it is possible without getting into trouble.

graphicguy · August 2014

@oldfarmer50 said:
You probably were wearing the wrong kind of watch.

Funny....I remember that long ago discussion.

RB.....interestingly, I've tended to throw my business to dealerships who were willing to give the pencil some work when it comes to tradeins. There are those, like you mentioned that seem to want the customer who has little clue as to what their trade is worth (or what they can buy the new car for, either). I have had plenty of "maybe if I can get my manager to look at it again, we'll raise the trade number". I've always wondered, what did the manager miss the first time?

What more does he really need to see to change his mind?

The other one is "we'll just wholesale your car....we have to deduct however much it costs to get it to the auction, pay the auction fees, etc. I'm way back of book as a result", to justify a low ball offer. Only to see it sitting in the front of their lot a day later for sale.

Then there are others that will state...."I need to make some money on the trade. GG you take good care of your cars. I'll shine it up, but need to get a $1,000 more than I'm offering to make it work". Fair enough. I appreciate that sort of honesty. You're giving me $15,000 for my trade. You're (the dealer) going to be asking $17,000 on your lot...and turning it loose for $16,000. That sort of honesty works for me.

The other games I really don't respond to.

qbrozen · August 2014

I've only ever had the first situation happen (re-evaluating a trade). And only twice did was I ever given an honest justification. Once was where they gave me good value because it was super clean, they loved the color, and wanted to keep it on their lot. The other was the GM plainly stating he was overallowing (ALOT) because he liked the car and really felt they could sell it for quite a bit (they didn't and it sat on their lot for months).

when I've been lowballed, they've said things like "we're just going to give it to a wholesaler" but they've never attempted to explain what that means.

bwia · August 2014

Can you return a new vehicle?

I would think not, but here is what Prime Auto says about its return policy. Sales gimmick or honest desire to please the customer?

"Every car at Prime comes with Prime Peace of Mind; a guarantee that if you weren’t satisfied with your purchase you can return the vehicle within 48 hours and get your money back without a hassle. And on used vehicles sold at a Prime dealership, you can return your vehicle within 30 days or 750 miles and exchange it for a different vehicle of the same or greater value." http://www.driveprime.com/prime-peace-of-mind.

And here is what a finance manager says about unwinding a sale:
"It's an accounting nightmare," Eleazer wrote. "Commissions need to be charged back, even if the month has already closed and everyone has been paid. Your manufacturer's statement of origin must be retrieved from the DMV. Affidavits must be executed to retain the vehicle's new-car status; if you don't, you've got a huge depreciation on your hands. And, finally, if a trade-in was involved, the payoff must be refunded by the bank and the title received on that trade returned."

I once bought a mattress with a return policy but there were so many conditions tacked on it that it was not worth the bother.

fezo · August 2014

Don't know how I missed that Miata. I have been rather distracted of late.

Orange car alert. Local Dodge dealer has a Charger in that same orange as the Dart. no, thanks.

Now I'm not OCD at all but this drove me crazy. Driving home from another doctor appointment and there's a Jetta in front of me with the VW badge exactly upside down. Looked like some sort of genetic mutation. Like an M wearing a dunce cap.

ab348 · August 2014

@driver100 said:
He hates the Genesis. He says it has all the options, people love riding in it, but it is really boring. He says it isn't worth much because the 2015s are much improved, so the value really sunk. He is really getting interested in the E-Class and he loves the idea of a V8 (which will be available in Canada). He says his wife won't let him get another car, but, that hasn't stopped him before.

I think we need to add another truism to life: Don't buy a brand-new expensive car from a cheap brand.

roadburner · August 2014

@driver100 said:
Then his wife thought the Fiat was too unsafe, so he got a 2013 Genesis, that was loaded for a good price, $38K Cdn or about $34K US.

He hates the Genesis. He says it has all the options, people love riding in it, but it is really boring.

Note that this all goes back to having a certified nutjob for a wife.

roadburner · August 2014

@graphicguy said:
The other games I really don't respond to.

That's the thing; I KNEW the auction price, and they were $2000 behind that. My BMW dealer gave me $3000 more, which made the more expensive CPO 5er look like a better deal compared to the A4.

henryn · August 2014

Trade-ins are funny business. You just never know where they’re going to fall. The best bet is to get as much information as you possibly can, have qbrozen look up the recent auction numbers for you, and (if you can spare the time) go to CarMax and get a solid offer from them.

Recently I was thinking of trading in my 2013 F150, and getting a new 2014. Go with the Eco Boost engine, get a few more options (back up camera, for one thing). I found one I liked, got the price down to a fairly reasonable point, and asked them to evaluate my trade. They came back at $21k. I laughed , and tried to walk. The sales manager came over and upped the offer to $24k. I still walked, went straight to CarMax, who made a solid offer to buy at $25,500.

The $24k wasn’t terrible, but it wasn’t very good either. My Ford should be worth at least as much to a Ford dealer as it is to CarMax. But the starting offer was terrible, and I still feel like they were trying to ___ me. Which makes me much more likely to go to a different dealer the next time.

driver100 · August 2014

@henryn said:My Ford should be worth at least as much to a Ford dealer as it is to CarMax

Not always the case. The BMW dealer would only give us $20K on a trade-in for our 2008 335.
Some silly story about that is all they would pay if buying a similar one at the bmw auction.(sounded suspicious to me)

The Audi dealer gave us $24K with no hassle. He said we don't have to give it a full warranty like bmw would. He said I don't have to do anything to it, and I'll try to get $28K for it, but, even if I sell it for $25K, I'll make a quick $1000, and I'll convert someone to Audi.

driver100 · August 2014

@roadburner said:Note that this all goes back to having a certified nutjob for a wife.

Yeh, it was all his wife's fault!

(btw...she wanted to rid of the Fiat when they did those last crash tests and the Fiat didn't do too well)

explorerx4 · August 2014

my old F150 pickup

ab348 · August 2014

@stever said:
She tried to quit smoking now and then and affected the pipe for a couple of years in an attempt to wean herself from the cigs, but only at home. Didn't work but she finally quit in her late 70s following a six week rehab after a stroke. Still doing okay at 92 and claims it's because she never inhaled (but I sure got a lot of second-hand stuff over the years).

Funny she had trouble quitting if she wasn't inhaling. Habits are funny things I guess.

roadburner · August 2014

@driver100 said:
(btw...she wanted to rid of the Fiat when they did those last crash tests and the Fiat didn't do too well)

I remember you saying that a while back- hence the "certified nutjob" comment.

Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles