Tires, tires, tires

zueslewis · August 2003

also, your vehicle speed sensor will go nuts, interfering with the way your transmission shifts - GM engine management systems are very sensitive to tire size changes.

ryoken - I have the Kuhmo 711s on my Grand Prix - better ride and wet weather traction than the Dunlops they replaced. Great price. heard nothing but good things about them.

rs_petty · August 2003

From reading your post I don't think smaller diameter tires will help you. The clearance for the 5th wheel when towing comes between the trailer and the top of the bed. The tire size won't effect that measurement - it is a function of the bed depth, hitch type, and trailer type.

zueslewis · August 2003

well, yes it would, if he reduced the overall tire diameter, but he could just as easily do that with 16" tires.

He shouldn't do it either way, though.

sgrd0q · August 2003

My understanding is that + or - 3% of the original tire circumference is acceptable when switching to a new size.

zueslewis - you say GM engine management systems are very sensitive to tire size changes, do you think the 3% variance is ok with these transmissions?

zueslewis · August 2003

cause VSS problems - 3% of a 31" tire is about an inch - too much for proper operation, and would guarantee an out for GM - they'd slam whatever warranty you had.

sgrd0q · August 2003

zueslewis - as always - thanks!

aveman · August 2003

krzyss I just meant that just because some people pay attention to tire presuure and condition many don't. The point is that those who don't could cause harm to more than their car. It could be your car that they run into. When you look at it like that, I say make the technology work and put it in.

zueslewis · August 2003

hpulley4 · August 2003

The pressure monitors are also there to detect punctures, hopefully before you notice that your vehicle's handling has gone soggy on one side.

I thought the court case was more about them not liking the ABS sensor version. Though from one poster above with a Corvette with active sensors, they don't work that well either?

krzyss · August 2003

If people tend to ignore the shape of their tire, frequency to change oil and start to depend on warning lights we will be driving cars which are lighted as if they were christmas trees.

The court decision strikes down indirect methodology as unreliable (measurment of rotational speed difference between tires - I wonder how it works if you replace just one tire, so you have 3 well used and 1 brand new tire) and orders manufacturers to use devices which measure the pressure inside the tire - more unsprung weight,

Krzys

pluto5 · August 2003

I have a set of Kumho's and another on order from Tirerack. Many of the Michelin offerings are overrated IMO and overpriced.

bretfraz · August 2003

Both the Michelin and the Bridgestone are excellent tires. The Pilot Sport A/S is the top of the line tire from Michelin and in terms of technology, design, and QC its probably the best tire of its kind available. Its more performance oriented than the Bridgestone RE950 and offers a higher speed rating so its well suited for most any high performance car.

The RE950 is certainly a better value choice at about 1/2 the price of the Michelin. It has a lot of the technology from their top of the line Potenza S03 Pole Position tire. It's certainly an upgrade from your typical touring tire but not on a performance level with the Michelin.

If price is not an object I think the Michelin is an excellent choice. If you don't need the speed rating and the performance edge, the RE950 works well. Both good choices in their respective categories.

bretfraz · August 2003

Let's see: More grip, low noise, high comfort, good treadwear, and an affordable price is what you're asking for.

If you find that tire, send me an email and lemme know what it is. I'll open an e-store and sell it like cold lemonade in the desert.

If it were me, and I were autocrossing the car, I'd buy whatever was cheap and sticky and not worry about all that other stuff. Brands like Kumho and Toyo fit the bill perfectly. A set of Proxes T1S's or Ecsta 712's would be just fine.

ryoken · August 2003

I know I know.. can't have it all. More grip and less bucks are most important, with the rest following in order: treadwear, comfort, noise. I understand the Kuhmo's get a little noisy towards the later half of their lifespan. I think I can live with it. If not, I can always just underinflate them for a couple of autox's... "Gee, honey, I don't know why they wore out so fast... guess I'll have to buy more."

The 712's don't come in a size that fits my car. Infiniti was kind enough to outfit the car with an oddball size that doesn't seem to have much in the way of choice, or I'd be trying the ECSTA MX or Falken Azenis.

bretfraz · August 2003

You have the 215/55-17's? Bummer if so. I think there are only 2 or 3 tires on the market in that size. Ya gotta go to something like a 235/50-17 or close to that in order to find any selection.

Good luck shopping.

ryoken · August 2003

Yup. 3.
Bridgestone Turanza EL42
Goodyear Eagle RS-A
Goodyear Eagle GS-D
These, incidentally, are the 3 OEM tires offered on these cars by Infiniti.

The selection of performance tires even at 235/50R17 is not exciting. 225/50 and 225/55 are acceptable sizes, but a little bit off on the speedometer. Can't go to 245's without buying wider rims.

What would be involved in getting the speedometer/odometer recalibrated to handle a slightly different tire size?

nellcoop · August 2003

We have Firestone LE's and live in New England and they are terrible with 4 wheel drive. I am looking for something with more "bite" to handle snow conditions that we have here. Have done some research and was given brand names but need to know what other Suburban users recommend. Names given from "Town Fair Tire" are BF Goodrich Rugged Trail which reviewed as being easy to slip and slide, Toyo Open Country, Kelly Safari. I have seen a lot of recommendations for Michellin Pilot LXT's (may have initials reversed). Any advice or help? Thank you.

bretfraz · August 2003

For comments from Suburban owners, do a search for Suburban topics, probably in the SUV's conference.

As for tires, it seems that Kelly and Cooper perform well in the snow for all season tires. Bridgestone and Yokohama do not.

The Cooper Discoverer AT did well in the last Consumer Reports LT tires test so that might be a good choice if you're looking for a reasonably priced tire. But keep in mind this is an All Terrain tire which will ride rougher and noisier than the All Season tires like your current Firestone.

A great all around tire is the Michelin LTX M/S which seems to do everything well but is expensive. Sams Club and Costco sell a private labeled version of this tire called the XC LT4. It's an All Season tire which should give you a smooth ride, low noise, and good wet and dry traction.

If you're looking for a less expensive All Season tire, the Toyo M410 Open Country you mentioned would be a good choice.

mrmagicmph · August 2003

Nellcoop,

I've got a 2001 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 which also came with the Firestone Wilderness LE tires. About a month ago I replaced them with Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires and could not be any happier. I've not had the chance to try them in snow (obviously, since it was 112 here in Phoenix today), but have found they make a world of difference in driving, stopping, handling, etc. Did a fair amount of research before buying, and while the tire is definitely expensive, from what I read, it seemed to me to be worth the extra money.

The event that made me decide that it was definitely time for new tires (despite the LE's having less than 35k miles on them, & according to the tire dealers, PLENTY of good tread left) was while driving at 45 mph (I know because a cop was right next to me, great "reminder" to stay at the speed limit), saw the traffic light changing with PLENTY of room to slow down & stop, & by the time I stopped, I was 1/2 way through the intersection (cop didn't say/do anything, he saw I was doing everything possible to stop). The brakes were good, just the tires did NOT have good "grab" on the road at all. The Cross Terrains have been WONDERFUL for both regular & emergency stops, and the car seems to handle MUCH better. Only "complaint" is that the mpg may have suffered slightly, but I'd rather suffer on mpg than on failing to stop, any day of the week. Just food for thought.

nellcoop · August 2003

Mr. Magic,

Thank you for the tire advice. I went to Tirerack.com to compare the Michellin Pilot LTX and the Cross Terrain SUV. Cross Terrain SUV just looks better over all on their reviews. How does your Tahoe handle now with the Cross Terrain's and do you notice more noise on the highway? We're in CT and we go to VT a lot which entails highway driving. Along with you, I also slid through a stop sign that I was unaware was there but was actually impressed how quickly such a big vehicle came to a stop. Better tires would have made a world of difference though. Also happy I didn't squish the Toyota coming towards me.

mrmagicmph · August 2003

Nellcoop,

Tahoe now handles MUCH better with the Cross Terrains. As for highway noise, it is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced. The Phoenix area has alot of roads with new surface that reduces the amount of noise from tires, but with the Cross Terrains, there is only a small difference when I'm on the "special" surface, the tires are already very quiet. I'd guestimate the noise of the Cross Terrains is about 1/2 or less of that of the Wilderness LEs.

cpolo · August 2003

Now that I got your attention you guys, I have a question for you. I am considering purchasing a 2004 Toyota Sienna, either an XLE or XLE Limited. The XLE comes with P215/65R16 all-season steel-belted radial Bridgestone tires with aluminum alloy wheels and the XLE LTD comes with P225/60R17 (same as above) tires. I will be driving primarily in the suburbs and N.Y.C. with occasional trips to the country. Hopefully in the future I may tow a small trailer to go camping. My question is if there is any advantage to driving with the larger sized tires rather than the smaller ones. Any information to this novice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your input.

nellcoop · August 2003

Mr. Magic,

Thanks again for your help. Sounds like the Michellin Cross Terrain's are the way to go. If we have another winter like we did out here this year it will be nice to have something that bites into the snow. Thanks.

capriracer · August 2003

Ask any tire guy and they'll say size matters!

First, the wheel diameter is important. That's the last set of digits in the size. While we are at it - you ought to spend a little time learning about tires at Tire Rack's web site:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tiretech.htm

Start there and read about sizing, and anything else you find interesting. I'll wait... lah de dah..de dah....

Back? OK, You should also have learned that load carrying capacity is important, which is a function of size and inflation pressure.

SO....

A P215/65R16 has a Load Index of 96 - which means a maximum load carrying capacity of 1565 # at 35 psi. A P225/60R17 has a Load Index of 98 for a maximum load carrying capacity of 1653 # at 35 psi .

The higher aspect ratio generally means a slightly better ride, a bit more impact resistance, sacrificing steering crispness.

Since you are planning on camping, I'd go with the 16".

Hope this helps.

Now

dr_jones · August 2003

Hey guys, how much of a difference will I see between ultra high performance summer tires and all season tires? Having never had summer tires before I wonder just how poorly they will perform in winter conditions. I live in a relatively mild climate where we occasionally see bad weather, but we still see it. I purchased a used car about 3 months ago, it came with really poor yet new tires (bad rain traction). One blew out yesterday. I went ahead and had both front tires replaced. Well I called 3 tire shops and only 1 had the size I needed. I asked the guy explicity, are these all season? He said yes. I didn't have time to double check until now (after the installation). They put Kumho Ecsta Supera 712's on my car. I'm reading online (tirerack.com) that these guys are ultra high performance summer. Are these tires going to be a significant problem this winter? Thanks.

himiler · August 2003

You in big trouble, Dr. Jones!

Summer tires get very hard in cold temps, which makes them slippery. Combine that trait with a tread pattern optimized for bare pavement, and you've pretty much assured yourself a visit to a body shop, or at least havine an incident that will get the "Pucker Meter" to spike.

stever · August 2003

Another flat on the Outback. That's two in three weeks. This one was a screw (last one was a roofing nail).

I don't know if driving ~200 miles of gravel/rocky forest service roads the last long weekend helped any :-).

Good thing I swapped the space saver with a full size (if studded) tire I guess.

Steve, Host

ryoken · August 2003

That's the thing. If you drive aggressively, you'll note that those Kuhmo's you've got are a whole world better at sticking to the pavement when it's dry than all-season tires would be. When it snows, however, they might as well be made of glass instead of rubber.

General rule of thumb, summer tires do better in the rain than all-seasons (as the tread design is optimized for two conditions - wet and dry - instead of 3 or more), but can't handle snow at all.

dr_jones · August 2003

Thanks guys, I appreciate your help. I took my car back this morning and made them replace the tires with some all seasons. That is after they spent nearly 10 minutes arguing with me that those 712's were all season. Thanks again.

ryoken · August 2003

Maybe they confused it with Kumho's Touring Plus 732 premium touring all season tire.

imidazol97 · August 2003

I believe there was discussion about struts and pricing in this topic. I see Sears has an ad for 1/2 price on installation for Monroe struts AND free alignment for the new few days.

I bought Monroes for my sedan at the half price installation early i the summer but had to pay for the requisite alignment. Could've saved a nickel if I'd waited!

stever · August 2003

I thought this was an interesting post about OEM shocks:

idahodoug "Toyota Land Cruiser" Feb 10, 2003 9:24pm

In the news, "Most blowouts could be avoided with proper maintenance, Lorenzini said. Tires should be regularly inspected for cuts and other flaws. Tires more than 4 years old should be checked for safety by a qualified tire dealer."

Deadly blowouts: Arizonans at high risk (Tucson Citizen)

Steve, Host

sddlw · August 2003

A couple of questions regarding new tires and tire balancing. I just put new Turanza LS-V 225-55 R16's on my car about a month ago. It looks like there are a couple of tires where several ounces of lead were required to balance the tire. Compared to the previous MXV4s that came OEM, there is significantly more balance chips on the wheels with the new tires. ....... How much balance weight is too much? When do you say this tire is not made properly? Or what tire/wheel balancing options exist to correct this situation? Also, over the first few weeks of use, the tires have begun to feel out of balance and have some slight high-speed vibration to them. I don't put tires on my car very often so is this normal or perhaps a result of the apparent imbalance of the tires I began with? I plan to take the car back to the tire vendor and ask for them to be rebalanced, but would like to have a better understanding of the situation.

zueslewis · August 2003

ding in a wheel or two....might not be the tires.

It takes a very small knick or pothole ding to require an extra 1/2 ounce or ounce of weight.

mattginnetty · August 2003

I live in New England and I need to replace the Affinity tires on my 2001 Odyssey. I need some help. What all season tires are people using on their Odysseys?
Thanks
Matt

pluto5 · August 2003

If I owned an soufdyso and lived in New England I would buy winter tires.

ashutoshsm · August 2003

... you owned an Odyssey?

pluto5 · August 2003

I wouldn't own an Odyssey but I would live in New England if I could.

bottgers · August 2003

......to my dash and tires. I found out by not reading the directions you can't apply this stuff like the typical ArmorAll type tire dressing. I used to apply AA and Eagle 1 using a foam applicator. I did the same with the 303, and by the time I was done applying it to the last tire, the first tire I had done didn't look like it had anything on it. Then I read the directions. They say to spray a generous amount directly on the sidewalls, let it sit for 20-30 minutes, then wipe off any excess. This works much better. The instructions also say to re-apply every 20-30 days to get full protection from the product. I'll be happy if this stuff lasts that long. Everything else I've tried only seems to last a few days.

edgeta · August 2003

OK, I have read through posts and posts, most are older (2002)...Michelin X-One, Michelin Symmetry, Bridgestone Turanza LS, Dunlop SP Sport, Yokohama Avid H4/V4 seem like the higher end ones. Any opinions, or has anyone used them on a Minivan, don't need any driving in snow as live in San Jose CA. OEM's, sure were loud, only have 32K miles (but got even wear at least). They did not seem to responsive, but then what do you expect from a 2 ton minivan? I guess I'm not as much worried about treadlife as noise and responsive handeling (at least nothing worse than the OEM stuff).

bretfraz · August 2003

Here's my take on the tires you mentioned (and thank you for reading posts here):

Quiet, smooth ride - Michelin Symmetry, Bridgestone Turanza LS

Long tread life - Michelin X One

Responsive handling - Dunlop SP Sport A2

Good value - Yokohama Avid H4 or V4

The OE Firestones are designed to offer good 4 season traction, long service life, and be reasonably priced. Older Odysseys used the Michelin Symmetry as an OE tire and it was a better all around product but clearly Honda wanted to save money and went with the Firestone instead. So the Symmetry is a natural choice for the Ody but not the only one. Based on what you described the Dunlop or the Yokohama may be your best choices.

diamond13 · August 2003

Hi there,
The front tires are worn out but the back tires are still in driveable condition. I did do tire rotation a few times but maybe not enough to prevent the uneven wear.

I think the Mazda is front wheel drive, so I have 2 questions:
1) Is it OK to put the back tires which are still good in the front and the front tires which are worn out in the back and use the tires a bit longer?
2) Is it OK to buy just 2 new tires to replace the bad ones in the front instead of replacing all 4 tires?

I know it is probably best to just replace all 4 tires, but I just wanted to get your opinion and see what possible risks I am running...

Thanks.
Kate

hpulley4 · August 2003

What is the tread depth on the fronts and rears? If the fronts are really worn out, down to the wear bars or lower, then you don't want them on the back as you can oversteer into a spin in a rainstorm if the rears aquaplane and the fronts don't. Aquaplaning is a function of tread depth and speed so you never want to have too much difference between the fronts and the rears. If the fronts are truly worn then just buy two new ones and put them on the front for now (or optionally buy two new rears and put the somewhat worn rears onto the front).

If there isn't that much difference in depth and you have at least 3/16ths on the front then rotate them and keep them for a while.

It is best to buy 4 new tires but if can't afford it then buying two should be OK. Opinions differ on whether you should put the new ones on the front (I would) or the rear.

squirreljam · August 2003

Anyone have any experience with Hankook performance tires, specifically K104's? There's a set on ebay for sale but I can't find much about them - Tirerack doesn't sell them, etc.

I did a search in this board but Hankook only came up twice and neither were relevant.

Thanks - Squirrel

pf2003 · August 2003

The 2003 Odyssey has Michelin Symmetry tires. Having run Michelin's, Goodyear and Bridgestone's on other vans, I favour Michelin for ride and wear. The Symmetry ride is good, it's too early to know about wear, but I'm hoping they wear out fast so I can replace them. These tires have so much road noise at highway speed that it drowns out conversation inside the vehicle.

The Michelin X-One and Harmony are suppose to be good quite tires, based on customer reviews. I would not recommend the Michelin Symmetry as a replacement choice.

The Odyssey would be a much better vehicle with decent tires on it and the Michelin Symmetry is not the one. The brand may be good but not this tire. Read some of the customer evaluations at www.tirerack.com on the Symmetry, many of them are Odyssey owners.

imidazol97 · August 2003

I have symmetry tires on my LeSabre. They are quiet!!! I'm surprised they are noisy on the Odyssey. Is the sound proofing in the car the difference.

I had expected the noise from the tires to be a little more than the Michelin X-Ones I have on the other car, but the Symmetry tires are _just_ as quiet or more so.

sensei1 · August 2003

Kate, if the choice is between buying 4 tires or not-> buy 4.

If the choice is whether to put the 2 new ones in front or not-> put them in the front.

Your fronts control your car -> turns, braking and pull if it's FWD. I think the Protege is FWD.

Also think about a blowout. It's easier to control a rear blowout than a front one.

Hope this helps.

stickguy · August 2003

Actually, I recall reading some technical articles that recommended putting the new tires on the rear if you only get 2. I think it has to do with keeping oversteer in check or something along those lines, but it was related to handling balance.

obyone · August 2003

Costco's policy is to mount them in the rear. They have a large sign posted in the front entrance to refer to when customers ask to have it installed in the front.

diamond13 · August 2003

Thanks for all your replies! I actually went and measured the tread depth with a quarter on both the front and the rear tires. It turns out that there is really not that much difference in wear, the front tread depth is 1/16th of an inch, and the back is 2/16th of an inch. I guess visually the difference looked bigger.

It sounds like the best option in this case is to have them all 4 replaced. The ones I had were Toyo tires but my car was sliding from time to time in rainy weather in Seattle since they were new. I will look for tires that are good for wet weather. By any chance anyone has a recommendation for such tires?

Kate

Tires, tires, tires

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy