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Comments
The reason it's smart to place new tires on the REAR of a FWD vehicle is to minimize the loss of rear tire traction. If the front tires lose traction first, the car will plow ahead (aka understeer). Most drivers can control a car that's plowing ahead.
If the rear tires lose traction first, the car will come around in a spin. It'll take a pretty good driver to maintain control of that car, and we all have clear opinions of drivers on today's roads, right?
It is equally as dangerous to have a blowout on the front or the rear. Just depends where it happens. They just shouldn't be on the car at all. There is NO safe place for a blowout. (or even saf-ER). The only factor that has any bearing on the tire position is the life of the tire itself. Front tires will wear quickly, rear tire will cup badly (eventually) on a FWD car.
Opinions from the tire experts are welcomed.
With FWD, however, you MUST get four as two on the front only will lead to poor braking with the back end braking loose first, yielding oversteer and spins. Putting snows just on the back won't help you with traction in this case so four is the only answer with FWD.
Look at it this way, would you prefer to slide off the road nose first or tail first? 4 snows might help prevent the situation from happening at all.
I really can't answer the road noise question at this point.
I will say the MXV4+ was a very very quiet tire.
unfortunately, about 2 weeks before I purchased the hydoedge I hit some road debris on route 80 in NJ and damaged the muffler on my car. Have not brought it in yet for repairs so all I hear now is a motor boat.
Get back to you when its fixed.
Based on what I have read the purpose of putting the new tires on the rear is to prevent loss of control of the car by providing better information to the driver based on the tires with the least grip. For example and in theory entering a hard turn with new tires on the front the driver has good road feel that the tires are gripping and only when he is hard into the turn do the rear tires lose grip. Now if the new tires are on the rear the driver enters the turn and has the road fell of the front tires slipping and thus slows down.
The problem I have with this analysis is that I thought that as a tire loses tread its dry road grip increases while its wet road grip decreases. Therefore applying the reasoning above the new tires should be on the front in dry weather and in the back in wet weather.
Hey guys does any of this pass the smell test???
Just repeating all the stuff thrown around on this topic.
Other people are perfectly happy putting their life on 4 for $79.99 tires and using them until the steel belts show in 7 years and then complain that they had to buy new ones. They also have no issue spending $150 on a new pair of sneakers every 3 months to be in style also. Different strokes!
Thanks for your opinion.
To the rest of the tire experts out there, my question still stands. Living in downstate suburban New York, where the roads are plowed rapidly, I have a BMW with all-season tires on it. It has handled very well in the one storm I drove it in, but that was in March. I lived in Syracuse for several winters with an old Volvo rear-wheel drive with two snows on the back, and non of the modern handling features that my BMW has -- ABS, DSC, EBD, etc., and survived quite nicely.
So, is the push for snows on four wheels more of a marketing ploy, or is it really necessary?
It isn't a marketing ploy. Most people don't put any snow tires on so if they thought more people would put them on if they could get away with 2 then that's what they'd say except that just on the front of FWD cars they would soon be in trouble, perhaps with a low-inflated Firestone Explorer type fiasco. 4 works better and is required with FWD which the majority of cars have today.
4 is better. We've all said that. What more can we say to convince you?
ABS, ASC, DSC, EBD and CBC can't do much without road traction except try to keep you in control WHILE MAKING THE STOPPING DISTANCE LONGER. ABS will work more, stability control will work more and braking control will work more. This will cause braking and engine retarding at some times which slows you down and extra ABS to lengthen stopping distances at other times.
They obviously block airflow while they're blocking the black stuff from your wheels.
I'd rather have slightly dirty wheels or have to hose the wheels off twice a week than worry about extra costs for brake parts and fading brakes.
my 2 cents...
Steve, Host
No air to blow it out OR cool your brakes.
Most 80k tires are $$$$$$ and some get out of round while there is still traed on them
And the causes of irregular wear are:
Alignment, inflation, rotation (not enough).
Vehicles like a little bit of toe in for stability. Vehicles with toe out feel "darty" and don't feel like they are going in a predictable direction.
Toe in causes the tire to always act like it is being dragged a bit sideways (In fact, it is!), basically grinding off the tread. Because of minuscule irregularities in the road surface, in the wheel and in the tire, over long periods of time, the tire will develop areas of high wear and areas of low wear.
Some folks like to use the term "flatspot", but I prefer to avoid that term in this context, and reserve it for brake lock skidding and when a vehicle sits for a long period of time.
Low inflation pressure aggravates the situation by making the tire less stiff and more susceptible to wear mechanisms in general.
Each wheel position has its own wear characteristics. The fronts do all the steering, most of the braking, carry most of the load, and on FWD's, do all the accelerating. the rears are doing something else. So rotating the tires forces the tire to wear off the old pattern and wear a different pattern, and in the process, tends to even things out.
Irregular wear can not be eliminated, but you can stay ahead of it. Obviously with tires that wear more slowly, you have to be especially vigilant.
Hope this helps.
I had other Michelins, but traded the cars before they wore out. Currently have Xones and Symmetrys on two LeSabres.
Rotation is the key.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
tires may be damaged or they may come round when driven. I guess it's a question
of how much they are out of round. I think you're back to the road force balancing
to see if that will fix them if that's not the balancer the mechanic used...
I'd hit the dealer pleasantly but hard. I'd think Michelin would handle it for the
dealer. Out of curiosity which tire is it on the Tib?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Any comments? Suggestions? My limit is about $125 per tire, mounted etc ... and these 2 tires fall in that range.
thanks!
If best for you try just the Eagles for first snow, find a parking lot or other open area and have fun. Floor it, stomp on the brakes etc. If too slippery go for 2 snows on the rear, if problems on next snow stopping and turning (but none starting) go for 2 more. Personal opinion stay away from studded tires if you do, the decrease in dry traction for "normal" conditions is not worth it. Studs are great for ice and hard packed snow (which we don't see much of) on the roads.
STS tire now carries Nokian also. Excellent all weather (all season) tire is the WR. High performance NO, excellent dry, wet, and snow and H-rated YES.
FWIW, the reviews of the new Conti ExtremeContact all-seasons on Tirerack and CR have been glowing, and for snow, too. Maybe those are the next tires for this car (though, I understand the Eagles wear a long time).
Do any of you tire gurus have any experience with these tires? It just seemed like a heck of a deal for a Michelin 80K tire.
Mine worked great through two winters but didn't inspire a lot of confidence after that. I had one that was damaged by a flat and tread separation was setting in so I dumped them with ~50,000 miles on them.
The Harmony's were a bit expensive here when I was shopping so I went with Toyo this time around from a nearby shop.
Steve, Host
At least for purely matters of safety.
One of the main problems with FWD.
Like many things in our litigious world, I think the correct answer is based on the last lawsuit, current legal consultant, day of week, weather, cost of malpractice insurance, and how many people subscribe to this forum. And more than once, the next lawsuit reverses the current wisdom.
The bad news is that my right rear went flat on my way to work this morning. I had to drive a few blocks to get to the side of the road so I could change it. Of course, this means that the side walls are all scuffed up on a brand new tire. I took the tire to Big O where I bought them. They inspected the tire and found nothing wrong with it. I want a new tire since it hadn't even been installed for 24 hours before it goes flat and looks like crap. They say they won't give me a new tire since they say the integrity of the tire is fine and they don't warranty for cosmetic issues. I say that it must have been a faulty installation that led to the flat considering there was less than fifty miles on the tire and so they should stand by their service and replace the tire regardless on whether it is under warranty or not. I am fuming right now. The sad thing is that I bought the road hazard warranty and if I just simply driven a few miles on the flat, the tire would have been ruined and they would have had to replace it under warranty. If this had happend at a few thousand miles I could understand their argument, but this happend in less than 50 miles.
I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a new tire considering I just spent almost $800 for the tires and an alignment at Big O. Anybody ever have such an issue before that could offer advice on any recourse I may have?
Thanks
I'm urgently looking to replace my stock Duelers that came with the truck (245/70-16) and narrowed down my search to three tires: Michelin LTX M/S, Michelin Cross Terrain and Bridgestone Dueler Revo. I mostly do City/Highway driving but my key concern is that I don't want to have any major problems in the snow/ice and some very minor off-roading. By off-roading I basically mean not-paved grovel roads, dirt roads and some sand driving. My stock Duelers did a good job for two years but now even with 6/32 thread left they have lost their grip.
I have been recommended to get Michelin over Revo's by Discount Tires and Revo's over Michelin by Firestone (who are Bridgestone Dealers). One of my concern is durability: Michelins are known to go for over 60K mi with no problems, while Bridgestones are normally not that durable. I am, however, not too impressed with the thread design on Michelins (both LTX's and Cross Terrain). They remind me of the design Michelin is using on their Bus tires - straight deep threads that go around the tire. I was also getting mixed reviews on LTX's and Cross Terrain snow performance. Michelin rated CT much better than LTX's in virtually every category, but all the salespeople I've been talking to say the opposite.
Another concernt that I have about Bridgestones is that they are A/T tires and might be hard to ballance and might provide rather bumpy ride because of that. All the reviews, however, say opposite and claim that they provide even softer ride than most of the all-season highway tires.
Please help!!! It's getting really close to winter and those Duelers that I have now will not give me a good grip. It'll also take about a week to get Revo's in stock if I do go with them. Firestone do have them at their warehouse but I'd rather go with Discount Tire as their customer satisfaction and performance are far superior over anybody else. But since they are not Bridgestone direct store (and I guess that's why they normally don't recommend Bridgestone tires) it'll take them a while to get those tires in stock.
So what could cause a tire to go flat when there's nothing wrong with it? Incorrect installation? Leaky valve stem? Bad or damaged wheel?
Steve, Host
I'm urgently looking to replace my stock Duelers that came with the truck (245/70-16) and narrowed down my search to three tires: Michelin LTX M/S, Michelin Cross Terrain and Bridgestone Dueler Revo. I mostly do City/Highway driving but my key concern is that I don't want to have any major problems in the snow/ice and some very minor off-roading. By off-roading I basically mean not-paved grovel roads, dirt roads and some sand driving. My stock Duelers did a good job for two years but now even with 6/32 thread left they have lost their grip.
I have been recommended to get Michelin over Revo's by Discount Tires and Revo's over Michelin by Firestone (who are Bridgestone Dealers). One of my concern is durability: Michelins are known to go for over 60K mi with no problems, while Bridgestones are normally not that durable. I am, however, not too impressed with the thread design on Michelins (both LTX's and Cross Terrain). They remind me of the design Michelin is using on their Bus tires - straight deep threads that go around the tire. I was also getting mixed reviews on LTX's and Cross Terrain snow performance. Michelin rated CT much better than LTX's in virtually every category, but all the salespeople I've been talking to say the opposite.
Another concernt that I have about Bridgestones is that they are A/T tires and might be hard to ballance and might provide rather bumpy ride because of that. All the reviews, however, say opposite and claim that they provide even softer ride than most of the all-season highway tires.
Please help!!! It's getting really close to winter and those Duelers that I have now will not give me a good grip. It'll also take about a week to get Revo's in stock if I do go with them. Firestone do have them at their warehouse but I'd rather go with Discount Tire as their customer satisfaction and performance are far superior over anybody else. But since they are not Bridgestone direct store (and I guess that's why they normally don't recommend Bridgestone tires) it'll take them a while to get those tires in stock.
First, look at the tires you're comparing and decide which performance characteristics are most important to you.
The Bridgestone is a new tire from them incorporating their latest technology from car performance tires into a LT tire. The Dueler A/T Revo is an All-Terrain tire which means it will work well on and off road. If you plan to use your truck off road on a regular basis, and you want very good traction, then an A/T is an excellent choice. The downside is a usually rougher, noisier ride. So, you've got to decide what is more important - ride quality or off road traction. Mileage isn't a big issue with this tire as Bridgestone warrants it for 50,000 miles.
The Michelin LTX M/S is an excellent all around tire. It's been in their lineup for many years so most Michelin dealers are very familiar with it and have confidence in it. I consider it an "80/20" tire; good for 80% on-road and 20% off-road use. For occassional light duty off road use, the LTX M/S is fine.
The Michelin Cross Terrain (C/T) is designed to offer a car-like ride for trucks and SUVs. It will give you long life, a smooth ride, and good 4 season traction. It's perfect for those luxo-SUVs that almost never see off road use. I have a friend that has C/T's on his Chevy Tahoe and the truck rides like a Cadillac with them. The C/T is a very high quality tire using Michelin's most advanced production technology so it may be the best made LT tire you can buy. It's a fairly new tire in the Michelin line so some dealers may not have a lot of experience with it just yet.
So, what tires do I think you should buy? Based on your post, I think the Michelin LTX M/S is your best choice. It will do exactly what you want it to and should be a good match to your Rodeo.
I hope this was helpful. Let us know if you have more questions.
Funny, I asked the sales guy the same question. They said there wasn't any puncture so I asked if it wasn't a punture, what else could cause a flat other than a faulty installation (especially within 24 hours of installation)? The salesguy said "tons of things" but wouldn't elaborate and avoided further inquiry by me.
The good news is that Big O did the right thing and replaced the tire on a non-warranty claim.
I was a little surprised. The salesperson said at the beginning that it is impossible to replace a tire since cosmetic issues aren't covered under either the tire warranty or road hazard warranty. I brought up that Big O has a 90 day installation warranty and it should be covered under that. He said I would have to talk with the manager who was not there at the time. I left the tire/rim there and went to work on the spare. I called several times to speak with the manager but he was never there. Towards the end of the day I called and spoke with the salesman again and asked if I should just leave the tire there overnight. He said he went ahead and replaced the tire. I had to ask him to repeat that because I was gearing up for a long fight. My guess is that once the manager was told of the situation, he realized I had a right to be very upset and replaced the tire in good faith.
Bottom line is that Big O lived up to their advertised customer service policy and did the right thing. I bet that if the manager was there when I brough the tire in he would have replaced it with a lot less conflict than what I had with the salesman.
I wrote the Cincinnati franchise headquarters and wrote to the friend of the franchise owner who does an auto talk show on radio. Got attention!!!
But no real closure on the problem. You were lucky. Needless to say I talk down the stores to everyone in our cirle of acquaintances...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If Big O didn't do the right thing, I would have spoken of them very poorly to everyone I know and try to spread the word that they don't live up to their advertised customer service.
I will consider Big O in the future because I was lucky and in the end they did treat me right.
Steve, Host
I just found this web site and would greatly appreciate help in selecting the next set of tires for my 99 Chrysler 300M. Right now I have Pilot Sports in 225/55 on 17 inch wheels (I think this is the size that the original tires were). My priorities are that I want a tire that isn't a waste in snow, that is quiet (very important), and that also handles well with pretty good mileage. So I have 2 questions: 1) I managed to lose the owners manual; I'm wondering what sizes I can switch to that are safe and not affect the speedo more than 2.5 mph. The Avid T4 tires are made in my size, which I could get. 2) Any suggestions on what I could consider besides the Avids? On Tire Rack the Pirelli Pzero Neros and ContiExtreme Contacts were both appealing to me and rated well, but neither is made in my exact size. So I guess a third question would be if there is a size in the PZero Neros or the Conti Extreme Contacts that would work for my standard wheel. I am not about to change wheels. Thank you very much for any help with this.
I did a search on Tire Rack (Tire Decision Guide on their website) using your preferences and they suggested 12 tires, first choice being the Michelin Hydroedge. Based on your comments I think this tire would be a good choice. It'll do what you want it to perhaps with the exception of sharp handling.
The yokohama Avid isn't a bad tire but they never seem to do well in snow so I'd take a pass on it.
I'd also pass on the Pirelli. It's a max performance summer-only tire; not what you need based on your post.
The Continental would be a good choice but, as you know, they don't offer it in your size. You could go to a 235/45-17 but since there are plenty of tires in your OE size, I see no reason to change unless you've just got to have a set of Continentals on your car.
That's my 2 cents based on your post. Hope this helps.
Can you give any supporting facts why that is true?
I misspoke about the 235/45 size. It should be more like 235/50. There are several online tire calculators that you can play with to see what sizes are acceptable. A quick internet search will reveal them.