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Comments
The French have been your friends for a long time (they helped you kick out the British and gave you the Statue of Liberty, remember?)
Friends are allowed to have a divergence of opinion, and real friends respect their friend's opinion. And in retrospect, the French were right to point out that your evidence and reasoning for going to war was wrong (jsut ask Powelll, he knew all along). They were in fact trying to do you a favour!
So this is all non-sense, and you're only hurting yourself if you won't buy a tire "just because" of a stupid disagreement.
Sly
This isn't a political forum, and I'm a very well-informed tire buyer and tuner shop owner, and in addition to not liking Michelins and many French products, I simply don't see the value in Michelin products.
I swap tires way too often to consider paying astromonical prices. If I had a Buick and wanted 80k tires, then Michelin might be a possibility.
I race autocross in 3 cars and drive a very fast, hopped up truck - Michelin has nothing to offer me, especially considering the cost.
Unfortunately, her aggressive driving has also brought multiple tickets and an accident, so her aggressiveness has all but gone away. The bigger reason was that we wanted tires with higher mileage numbers and a more aggressive rain/snow tread. The Goodyear Eagle LS could last maybe 25K miles, but they hydroplaned badly, even after 5K miles, and good snow traction lasted only one season. After two sets of these, we've had enough!
She's had the Michelin Harmonys on for 2 weeks now, and she wishes we found them sooner. Snow traction is excellent, no problem going up snow-covered hills, or driving through unplowed driveways. No noticeable loss in dry traction or performance compared to the LSs. If they only last 40K miles, I'll be happy, but I'm sure they'll have another 20K miles after that!
I am a long time user of Michelin SUV tires LTX's 275 70-16 (8 sets and its earlier variants and sizes). At the time of purchase they were probably the best in their class, abeit expensive. I have switched this application to Bridgestone Dueler AT Revo's and will switch the other one when the Michelin's wear out.
Also in the 195-65-15 tire size the Michelin MVX4's are not only at least 1.5-2x the price of others, they seem to last most folks app 34k. They don't even have a mileage warranty, both oem and aftermarket. In this application it seems their subordinate company BFG seems to make not only a cheaper tire but better in almost all performance parameters.
Michelin Pilot Sports are also close to $350-400 more than the Toyo Proxes T1S's that I decided to get.
Friend has one of the versions of MXV4 on Pacifica. They seem to be going to do just fine on mileage for him. He drives normally. No hotrodding but does corner the thing more than I would.
Michelin life: XH4 on 93 LeSabre only gave 110 and 100 K miles. Put two used tires on and traded the thing with 150K on it. (My wife made me trade; it ran fine.)
X-Ones on 98 LeSabre have 80K and have 4-5/32nds. Siping is gone and lost lot of snow traction for pull. Directional control still fine. Put on 2 Harmonys. Will replace two more next fall.
If I hotrodded like my 67 Mustang, I only got 80K out of X tires.
*********
I'm sure there are better traction tires or lower-priced higher quality tires. I just buy what has served me well.
As for cheaper: I'm too poor to be able to buy cheap stuff. I want quality that stays round and doesn't cause balance problems and that wears well.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In the case of the oem MXV4's, my lowly oem Goodyear's look to be able to go at least 85,000 miles vs the more normal Michelins of 34,000 miles. Needless to say replacement price is 72 vs 108.
So to me, the key is to: separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
There are different versions of MXV4s from what I pick up from the Honda discussion. I wonder if some are stickier, softer rubber than others. AND OEM stuff may be a different rubber from the tire sold at the brand store because the manufacturer specified that the tire meet certain specs.
I had oem wide ovals from Firestone long ago that last 12K miles.
If I've gleaned wrong information about that, I belief Drift has been in the business or anyone else can correct me.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
OEM tires are made to weird specs, mostly for cost reasons, and I never recommend getting an exact copy of the OEM tires - perhaps the same brand and model, if you've liked them, but cross-shop the others by that manufacturer to make sure treadwear, traction, speed rating, and load range are EXACTLY what you want, not what the car manufacturer decided would fit THEIR bill and meet the lowest bid.
Any suggestion? Mic.MXV4 will help? or should I change to a thicker tires
My car has only 1500 miles with premium package
Please help
Paul
Hope this helps.
My top picks in the H rating 1 BFG Traction TA 2 Toyo TPT 3 Yokohama Avid H4S 4 Bridgestone RE 950.
Just a bit of clarification.
The "P" only sort of stands for "passenger". It's on a truck, right? That means there is more to than that.
The tire dealer was sort of right when he said that the "P" means 35 psi. That's true for Standard Load tires, but there are Extra Load tires, too, and those are 41 psi.
However, the dealer is totally wrong if he thinks that 35 psi means 35 psi is the absolute maximum pressure.
You see, the folks that make tire standards say that the load curve for P metric standard load tires ends at 35 psi and that's where the maximum load carrying capacity occurs. But the standards folks also say it is permissible (and they even hint at desirable) to use higher inflation pressures for certain circumstances. Those circumstances are generally higher speeds as experienced in Europe, but I think they are applicable any time someone exceeds 80 mph or the ambient temperature exceeds 100F.
Those other "maximum's" are 44 psi and 51 psi for both P metric and Euro metric tires (without the "P".) LT metric tires are a whole different kettle of fish and in some respects have this same problem.
For some reason Michelin seems to be the only tire manufacturer that doesn't put this higher inflation pressure on the sidewall, even though the standards say it is permitted. I can somewhat see that if the load curve ends at 35 psi, then putting 44 psi on the sidewall confuses people into thinking that the load curve ends at 44 psi (I can't tell you how many discussions I've had on that subject!!) On the other hand, there is your question.
BTW, P metric tires have a static burst pressure over 100 psi. Now don't be thinking you can actually use 100 psi (or even 50!), but the point is that 44 psi is certainly well within the "safe" zone.
I just wonder.......How does Michelin write this on the sidewall? If they say "Maximum XXXX pounds at 35 psi", then they aren't saying 35 psi is the maximum inflation pressure.......and all is right with the world!
Hope this helps.
However the fact that it is an OEM product with back up marketing hype is (unfortunately) the surest sign.
The reason why is pretty simple. One real world measure is they want to be able to get the highest fuel mileage to publish with a straight face. Or more importantly not to get sued!! ") (:. So it behooves them to put in the LEAST rolling resistant tires as possible!!
So for example on a VW Jetta TDI three "lower resistant" tires come oem. In rank order by poll of actual owners in the real world 1. Michelin MXV4 plus 2 Continental ContiContact Touring CH95 3 Goodyear Eagle LS-H.
I am in the market for new set of tires for my car and have narrowed it down to BF Goodrich precept and Goodyear Allegra tires, both of them are available in Canada through Canadian Tire.
I am confused on which one to buy, I am having tough time to figure out which one is more quieter and has better traction than the other one. I asked the service advisor at Canadian tire and he is saying Goodyear (reason they sell more of those and the tread pattern). I also did a quick search at Edmunds and found GoodYear Allegra tire referred in discussion forums a lot more than BF Goodrich Precept.
I would like to know if anybody has Goodyear Allegra or BF Goodrich Precept tires on there car and what there experience has been like?
Also from anybody else who has heard any good or bad things about these two tires?
Thanks for all of your help.
Also just as another poster has said the Michelin MXV4's has a few models. I hope he got the correct one for his needs.
Thanks,
Mike
Steve, Host
I had responded to a post that 44 psi was a burst pressure and that tires should not be inflated more than 1 or 2 pounds above the maker recommended pressure. The same post said the tires had to have a rounded sidewall or
"otherwise the sidewalls will not flex enough to provide proper handling, ride control, etc."
But I've always felt handling was better with 3 or 5 pounds more in the tires, especially fronts on FWD. Is that right or is control better with lower pressures? I've had a variety of cars with FWD, Century, LeSabre. But I even felt that true with RWD Mustang and Torino 73.
How about that pressure above doorpost?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What is your opinion on this gauge.?
Im thinking of getting a digital gauge and came across the Michelin gauge. How does it compare to the accutire gauge?
Steve, Host
There isn't a "Minimum Burst Pressure" - like a standard or a regulation. It turns out that if you design a tire correctly, you wind up with static burst pressures well over 100 psi. So it's just a consequence, not an intended result.
What is molded on the sidewall is a usage upper end. It is also true that more inflation pressure does increase the risk of impact type failures - a "burst", if you will. But characterizing what is molded on the sidewall as some sort of maximum for "burst" purposes is as wrong as thinking that what people do on the race track has a bearing on what people should do on the street. (Racing is such a peculiar activity from a vehicle operational point of view.)
Yes, more inflation pressure does improve steering response (how quick the tire, and therefore the vehicle, reacts to steering input) it also reduces the amount of heat generation and how much a tire "rolls over" on cornering - which is why folks use 40 to 50 psi in FWD cars when racing on "street" tires.
I also recommend 3 to 5 psi above the placard inflation - but that's a general rule and not always appropriate - and I do that based on my understand of what methodology is used to set the placard pressures. Part of my recommendation is based on my preference for a "crisper" steering response, but also on the idea that sacrificing a bit of ride softness and getting many improvements (hydroplaning resistance, durability, treadwear,etc) is just a good trade-off.
Hope this helps.
The Harmonys say the same for 44 psi as max pressure for rating of load purposes. That might explain why the symmetry tires are softer than the X-ones or Harmonys I've had recently. They are meant to have a luxury car ride.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm totally amazed at some of the incredibly uneducated things that come out of the mouths of some shop techs and managers, especially at chain shops like Midas, Meineke, and Pep Boys...pretty danged scary.
Both my sons work at Pep Boys in parts, it's a pretty decent job for a high school senior and a college freshman, discounts on stuff, decent pay, but the stories they come home with would curl your hair.
However, because of the increased pressure, the tires don't heat as much and and the pressure don't rise as much. If they are lower in pressure to start with, and driven at speeds and with loads such as 4 in the car, the tires heat up more, which adds more pressure which slows the increase in heating due to the additional pressure.
My point is starting with the higher pressure isn't going to end up with 3-4 pounds additional at highway speeds and 3 adults and lotsa luggage and ice cooler chest for refreshment on the road because of the reduction in extra heating.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If you're that concerned then adhere strictly to the written recommendations of the manufacturer.
tidester, host
I own an ES300, oem Michelin MXV4 (not MXV4+), replaced with Ziex-512s. The Ziexs in my size at 205-65R15 are suppose to be warrantied for 60K, but at my rate, I will only see 25-27K down to 2/32.
Anyone else getting poor treadwear with Ziex-512 or can recommend a tire better than it? Thank you
I think most tire dealers try to be helpful, and will try to answer your question, even if it means "making up" an answer. I don't think you can call them "experts", in much the same way you can't call vehicle dealers "car experts". Each of these have some knowledge and expertise, but there is a limit to their expertise
I can only say that I'm a lot closer to the folks who write that stuff on the sidewall.
But there is some new information that wasn't in your earlier posts - Do you say you are a Pl lawyer - as in "Product Liability"? If so, then you know about "Daubert" and that ought to clue you in.
Hope this helps.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
The D3's seem to balance out a lot of the negatives of the all out max performance tires like the GY Eagle F1 SuperCars. SC's are notoriously sticky, but because of max performance, dry traction design; suffer in the WET department and comfort department.
So my perspective is from three data points: 265-40-17, 295-35-18's GY Eagle F1 SuperCars. These were replaced with Toyo Proxes T1S's due to the fact, D3's do not currently come in the above stock sizes. Also with Michelin's Pilot Sports A/S's 205/50-17 on a BMW 330i.
Krzys
Krzys
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=9270&page_number=4
There are a host of technical reasons you can probably infer as they mention them in passing. One example, a UTOQ of 140 vs Goodyear of 280. 2nd example, the suspension is very tuned to a specific set of parameters and in fact the ride probably started off hard as nails: so to merely switch the tire especially with a UTOQ of 280 vs old of 140 will most certainly change perception and things.
..."With such a harsh suspension, many began to feel as if they'd joined a cult of flagellants."...
Krzys
Seems a good used Corvette Z06 would be the ticket for those coveted romps on the track. Seems like you would need a spare set of rims, tire set choices, brake pads and rotors and obligatory brake fluid bleeds.
I've got great winter tires Toyo Observe Plus, they really rip through the winter snow. 6000km and no probs so far.
I am now looking for good Summer tires, for dry/wet/and occasional unpaved roads. Checked out Tirerack but they actually suggest Bridgestones, which I cannot believe. Don't trust them. Too many bad reviewer ratings. Another suggestion was the GoodYear Comfort tread. Does anybody have a suggestion?
Krzys