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Acura MDX (pre-2007)
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A number of years ago I bought a vehicle from Lasher and it was an experience starting with a bait and switch. Took about an hour and three walks to my car before I could get them to commit to the deal they said on the phone.
Friday I spoke with Niello and they said they have notice that one will be delivered to them next month and they expect a Vin in a few weeks so we will have to see.
I noticed on another thread that the Modesto dealer will only accept requests from Central Valley customers which I find interesting.
But all the "logical" arguments aside on whether or not it's "worth it," what it really comes down to is -- what do YOU want, and what will make you happiest with the vehicle? Will you have any regrets one way or another?
In our case, we certainly thought the Touring Package was worth it, and are reminded of that every time we stick in a new CD-R, fiddle with the power passenger's seat, use the seat memory, and drive the mountain pass with the assurance that we have good tires. I realize those components added up don't equal $2,600, but that doesn't mean they're not "worth it!"
For others, they also have no regrets, in rejecting the Touring Package. They can add on the Cross Terrain tires later (though I'll bet that the vast majority will wait until the Integrity's wear down). The Acura OEM changer can be added (and I've read on www.acuramdx.org about someone considering wiring it somewhere else besides the cargo compartment, though obviously not in the dash). Lots of folks are solo drivers and don't need memory seats.
Geez, even the JGCL comes with LTXs. Why can't Acura and Lexus get a clue.... this is a luxury vehicle, put some decent tires on it! Oh well, like everyone else, I'll just drive the Integritys until they wear down a bit and then buy the Michs.
TC
I did not get many of the extra items but I am getting the roof rack installed on Wednesday. I also got the all-weather mats including the one for the cargo area.
Unfortunately we got a big snow storm last night so my brand new MDX is buried under a couple of inches.
Since I will be parking my car outside does anyone recommend getting the paint protection. It costs $299. It seems kind of pricey but supposedly you will not have to wax the car for a few years.
I am keeping my ears open to see If a hear the "THUD" hopefully I won't...
I ordered the car in late October, so I had a 2 1/2 month wait. I almost bailed out and got the MB. Thank god I waited, because I would have gotten the really basic MB.
As a previous Infiniti owner I grew accustomed to their first class service, so I know what you're talking about.
Prior to purchasing the MDX, I bought 2 Integra from Neillo in the past two years. Both cars have been serviced at Neillo. Their service Dept. is first class. They do what they say and it's done on time and I can afford the bill. I decided to become an all Acura family (MDX and Integras) because of my previous excellent experience at Neillo. That's a big deal for someone who was pampered by Infiniti for years.
Price wise on the MDX, you're looking at MSRP and options, that you want, at cost. You have to get in line for delivery, however, Neillo is one of the largest volume dealers on the west coast, so they get a bunch of MDX's each month.
The color of the MDX, with the touring package, is Mesa Beige Metallic with the Saddle Leather interior. See ay on the Road!
Ron
Geez, even the JGCL comes with LTXs. Why can't Acura and Lexus get a clue.... this is a luxury vehicle, put some decent tires on it! Oh well, like everyone else, I'll just drive the Integritys until they wear down a bit and then buy the Michs.
The MDX Base comes with Goodyears, the MDX with Touring Package replaces them with Michelin Cross Terrains.
I've seen a lot of sub-par rubber on Toyotas and Lexuses in general.
But even the Dunlops or Generals that come on the ML320's aren't too impressive either (most notably the Generals). Of course, the M-class is a true truck with more offroading capability and the tires reflect this.
The Michelin Cross Terrains are a new tire and seem pretty good. They're now available as replacement tires for the MDX, click here for TireRack's list of tires and prices for the MDX. The replacement ones seem to be rated for higher tread life than the originals that come with the Touring Package. At $126 apiece (not including cost of installation), they're not cheap, though, especially compared with the Integrity's at $78 apiece. The LTX's are $135 but I think the Cross Terrains are a better fit for the MDX.
On TireRack, Cross Terrains in the RX's size are $119 apiece.
T-minus 19 hours and counting till I get my new ride...
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/20010116/press034474.html
When the Dunlop Grandtreks were first released in 1997 (first used on the M-class), they did break new ground WRT being a quiet and balanced tire that did well on-road and yet was usable in medium off-road conditions (self cleaning treads). If you look at the high skidpad rating and high emergency lane change speeds that the ML can be pushed to with the stock rubber, the tires are actually not too bad.
That said though, the Cross Terrains are something that I'd consider (along with the Pirelli Scorpion S/T) when it is time for a replacement. That won't be for another few years though...I only have 15K kms on the current ones and there is plenty of tread left. I've rotated mine twice already...have you done any rotations to yours?
BTW, in case you're wondering 57% (vs. 51 or 52% with the ML and about 50% with the X5) of the MDX's weight sits on the front tires. I wonder if this means that like most FWD vehicles, the front tires will wear out much quicker w/o timely rotation. BTW, this front weight bias is also why the tailend can get very happy when the vehicle is pushed hard (C&D TV reported this), especially in a light off-road excursion. C&D TV recommended slowing down to minivan speeds :-)
Drew
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And the Dunlops might have broken new ground in 1997, but it's 2001 now -- have the Dunlops been updated? (Boy this sounds discomfortingly close to something a poster on another site would ask, but at least I'm nice about it ;-) .)
The 2001 MDX beat the 2000 ML320 in C&D's skidpad tests, and quite handily at .74g to .69g (the RX scored .68g). But the MDX lost to the ML320 in the emergency lane change manuever, 52.4mph to 54.2mph (the BMW won both tests with .78g and 58.6mph). VSA would have helped the MDX in the emergency handling test.
That tested MDX had Cross Terrain's, though it's impossible to know if an MDX with the Integrity's would have still beat or at least tied the ML320 in the skidpad. The ML320 had the Dunlops.
As far as the MDX's Integrity's being built to Acura's specs, I think that's more marketing fluff. I don't see how the Integrity's on the MDX can be better than the Integrity's on other vehicles.
Though actually, that Dunlop-equipped 2000 ML320 barely beat out the presumably 2000 RX300 with the Integrity's - 0.01g difference on the skidpad, and 0.3mph on the emergency lane change manuever. And that's before the alleged suspension stiffening, and the addition of VSC in the 2001 RX300. So maybe Tony's RX does outhandle the ML320 after all, at least by the measurements you mentioned ;-)
Maybe you should add the Integrity's to your list of tires to eventually replace your Dunlop's ... just kidding!
I don't think stability control would've helped the MDX to be quicker in the emergency lane change maneuver. In fact, it probably would've slowed it down. Same goes for the RX (BTW, I test drove the '01 model and didn't find it to be stiffer than the previous models; the Highlander is another matter though). The X5 had the Michelin MXV4+ passenger car tires, didn't it? That would explain its good performance vs the other vehicles in the test...that and BMW's higher (less conservative) stability control activation threshold.
Goodyear doesn't make the Integrities in the ML's size nor the load rating ;-) The only Goodyears that I'd consider are the Aquatred 3s or the Formula Ones (for cars, that is) :-)
FWIW, when I saw at the Chrysler dealership a couple of weeks ago, I noticed that the Grand Cherokee Limiteds had either the Michelin LTX M/S tires, or Goodyear Wranglers (I think; definitely the Goodyears for the Up Country off-roadpackage).
BTW, the leading ML430 won 2nd place in the 2001 Paris to Dakar Rally's T1 unmodified stock vehicle class this year. Wolfgang mentioned that the Mitsubishi Pajero (driven by Ms. Jutta Kleinschmidt) won 1st this year. She waited for the aggressive males to eliminate themselves and won despite never being the fastest driver :-) I wonder what ever happened to the highly modified T3 prototype vehicle class BMW X5 that BMW entered in the rally?
Drew
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TC
Where do the Generals stand in all of this? Too bad Ken said that sometimes you don't get a choice between the Dunlops and Generals on the ML320.
Yes, the X5 did have the MXV4+'s. It handily beat the MDX's second-place skidpad score, and the ML320's second-place emergency lane change score. Though given the X5's trade-offs, the second-place finishes by the MDX and ML320 are actually quite outstanding.
Speaking of different thresholds for stability control, do you know if BMW's traction control system cuts power at a lower or higher tolerance than MB's? Seems some of the ASR complaints are focused on a belief that the ML320's may be cutting it too conservatively. Maybe the software developers tuned ASR for the Generals ;-)
"Yeah, yeah. We know. It's a Nissan Pathfinder daubed liberally with lipstick and mascara. And sure, it commands a couple grand beyond what the snazziest leather-laden Pathfinder fetches."
I love PFs, just turned in my '97. QX4 just ain't worth it.
As you know, the RX had its share of less-than-positive reviews when it first came out. What has to irk 2001 RX buyers though is that any worthy improvements made to the 2001 model (VSC, supposedly stiffer suspension for better handling, etc.) won't get reflected in updated reviews since the vehicle has been around for a while now and doesn't get too much press.
A bit off-topic again, I'd like to see Nissan (hopefully with Renault's backing) come out with an outstanding Pathfinder/QX4 replacement. Nissan has some good technology buried in with the questionable marketing. I'd like to see them concoct a worthy competitor to the MDX.
BTW, I happen to be one of those who definitely likes the controversial styling of the RX300. Then again, I also like the controversial styling of the Montero. I think both really state what the vehicle is, without any compromises. Meanwhile, I find the MDX's styling a bit bland but adequate.
Believe it or not though, the fact that you can lay a 8 x 4 piece of plywood flat in an MDX still kills me. I want that.
Like I say over and over, RX or MDX, you can't go wrong for the money.
P.S. I am dissapaointed that they didn't include the JGCL in the review. I really would have liked to see how it held up on the street handling. We all know it would flatten eveything else on the off-road tests.
TC
Motor Trend's and Car & Driver's lateral acceleration figures of the '98 and '99 ML320 are 0.74g (Dunlop tires). I'm not sure about the new Dunlop's performance, but it does seem to be slightly better in snow.
"So a '99 RX would beat a '99 ML320, since a 2000 RX virtually tied the 2000 ML320?"
Not according to Popular Science's comparo (don't have it handy with me right now)...the '98 ML320 (I think it had the Generals!) had much higher emergency lane change and skidpad numbers than the RX300.
FYI, the MB and BMW stability control systems are actually physically identical (both made by Conti-Teves). BMW's system has slight different software though, presumably since they feel their drivers want to have more fun, and allows more skidding before it intervenes. When it does, it is less conservative than the MB system. In some cases, it allows a little too much fun and one can actually get into trouble without the proper driving skills. Do keep in mind that BMW's AWD system for the X5 is very much RWD biased (32% front/68% rear) and that makes the tailend a lot happier than the ML's 48/52 torque split. IRL, at least in my experience and from what I've read, the X5's system cuts it a lot more frequently to keep the tail in line. MB's ESP can adapt to different tires/tire widths and diameters, BTW.
Drew
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tonychrys:
I'm not sure if you were around this forum in Oct/Nov, but I had a very favorable test drive of an MDX w/ the Touring CT tires; I couldn't break them loose on curves at 45mph or so. On a test of an RX300 through an offramp at roughly 45mph, I got the tires to squeal and slide a little and the salesman to hold onto his door handle while telling me I might own an RX300 sooner than I think if I roll it ;-)
Anyways, one of our M-Class mailing list members test drove an MDX base after my positive review and said he kept making the tires squeal and it felt like it didn't hold the road as well as his 99 ML320 (Dunlops I think). That was enough for me to conclude the Michelins are good for on-road performance and are a worthwhile reason to get the Touring pkg. For others who don't push curves, it won't matter.
William:
I have no idea why MB keeps using General tires. Maybe it's because I hear no road/tire noise at highway speeds (though occasional wind gusts and the low frequency engine noise I do hear). They also seem to make the ML feel a little jiggly at low speeds (wiggle steering wheel and ML rocks a little bit). Folks who have upgraded to Michelin LTX M/S or Pilot LTX tires have said the ML feels like a sports sedan after the upgrade. I would guess MB found the best "compromise" onroad/offroad/snow tire and went w/ it rather than offering an "off-road" pkg like Jeep does. I have no complaints about the Generals in snow (had fun playing in an unplowed parking lot w/ 4-5" of snow this morning and I almost couldn't even tell the snow was there :-). At any rate, the ML is supposed to feel totally different w/ real on-road tires and I suspect the MDX feels totally different w/ Generals vs. Michelins...
TC
Transpower: Really appreciate the input, thanks. Regarding the chics, we didn't plan on the lunch, word got around that I purchased an Acura suv so they wanted to see and ride it. Anyway, I didn't have the 3rd row up because I had the cargo cover and the cargo mat installed at the time so I told 4 of them to squeeze in the second row. Ok I admit it, I really enjoyed them breathing down my neck while I'm driving. I even offered one of them to sit on my lap while I'm driving but to no avail :-)
canadiencl: yeah, any jerk like that will have a problem picking up chics. Maybe I should call him "Han Solo" (know what I mean?)
Any MDX owners switching to Mobile 1 or thinking about it? Do you think it's worth it? ML320 and ML430 owners seem to be all over it, and they sometimes "bring their own" to the dealership.
Or do you think that it's overrated hype and not worth it? Do you see any negative consequences to using it besides cost?
Yep...it was a new demo and since only the Integrity's come w/ it...
Glad you guys are confirming what the ML owners found out WRT tires.
wmquan:
Way back, I posted my Integra w/ 152K mi has been fed Mobil1 and the engine still purrs. Someone posted and said his Integra also purred and he used dino oil. I think the important thing is that you have to change it regularly.
I switched to Mobil1 because a coworker was a car nut who rebuilt his engine a lot (he ran Nox through his "Scirroco"cket :-). He said switched after finding that Castrol left gunk on the inside. When he took it apart after he used Mobil1, it was clean. I know...one person's experience, but I trusted him and it was enough to convince me.
(Different Subject) Saw the Car and Driver Television blurp on the MDX today. They mentioned some positive and negative comments on the vehicle. Neg: Mini-Van looks from the side, not a good performer in the off road, and this was the most interesting , the back end was a little fish taily. They weren't specific why on that.
We all know the positives so I didn't mention them. But overall they did give an outstanding score.
Did you hear the MDX running hard into its bump stops when its suspension bottomed out driving over that large bump on the path? Ouch! This would be consistent with what one of the reviewers noted during the off-road portion of the MDX's launch.
Another negative that C&D TV mentioned (and most owners have mentioned this already) was the rather high level of road, wind, and tire noise while at highway speeds. You could hear the roar even on TV.
Drew
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In regards to the fish tailing, what bothers me doesn't the VT-M4 play a role in keeping the backend from fishtailing. The torque on the back wheels when wheels slip or in acceleration. I guess the balance of the MDX may not be as cracked up to be. Maybe the michelins may have an effect on those results, off course for road noise, but for fishtailing????
WRT VTM-4, even before the MDX came out, I did hypothesise that it would only have a some effect on oversteer and virtually none for understeer. VTM-4 can shift power around in certain preset conditions to try to reduce oversteer/understeer from happening. However, it is not a substitute. The reason being that VTM-4 primarily only relies on the ABS wheel speed sensors for wheel slippage information, and does not have steering angle, yaw and lateral sensors like stability control systems. Basically, it doesn't know that the vehicle is slidding and not actually going in the direction that the driver is pointing the steering wheel. Not only this, but there is only so much diverting torque from one wheel can do. In tanks for example, to turn the vehicle, they slow down or speed up one of the tracks. The stability control system (similiarly) selectively brakes one or more of the vehicle's wheels and reduces engine power if necessary.
Tires do make a different since the AWD/stability control system can only work with whatever traction it has. If the tractive limit of the new tire is higher, understeer/oversteer will occur at higher speeds than vs. the stock tires.
That said, weight distribution does make a big difference in handling on-road/off-road. That's why MB and especially BMW have always tried to keep it close to 50/50. The oversteer "arrives" much sooner off-road/in snowy/on ice since there is less grip to work with than on asphalt. With more weight on the front wheels, understeer will be prominent when pushed hard. When the front tires are loaded, there is even less weight on the rear end, hence causing the tailend to wag upon turn-in. I suppose one could try to counteract this by placing a couple of bags of sand directly above the rear axle (sort of like what pickup truck drivers do during the winter), or having more people sit behind. This will help to even out the weight distribution a little. Oversteer can be fun though, provided you know what you're doing. :-)
Using the VTM-4 lock when starting from a dead stop on snow covered surfaces could help. If you think about it, it's really quite simple. With VTM-4 lock not activated, when one first applies throttle, the front wheels will slip. The system then redirects more power to the rear, perhaps more than required if the front wheels keep slipping. If this happens (too much to the rear), the rear wheels will spin and when the rear wheels spin on ANY vehicle, directional stability is immediately lost and the rear end will step out sideways (exacerbated by the lighter rear end of the vehicle) looking for a ditch. With VTM-4 lock activated, the rear wheels are already allocated a certain amount of torque before one starts off. With light throttle, although all four wheels will spin together, there should be more control. In any case, I think it is a good idea to experiment with the VTM-4 lock switch since turning it on is not necessarily the best idea everytime.
Drew
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C&D's comparo did note that in their off-road "dirt-dog" test that it "felt as fragile as the Lexus."
Putting everything back into context, the C&D article still said "the MDX is confident, stable, and poised on difficult roads." This obviously for on-road driving.
This notable front weight bias + the softish springs would explain why MotorWeek's test MDX stepped out its tailend upon turn-in during the low speed slalom, as well as during the 60-0mph braking test. I guess it's not the base MDX's Goodyears afterall, as we speculated months ago.
No doubt it's a contributing factor, but I'd imagine that the Cross Terrains might have helped somewhat. Can't really compare it to another test because it's apples and oranges testing conditions. No way of knowing for sure without actual testing.
Also, as I'm sure you remember, the step-out during the braking test was actually quite slight, as you yourself observed some months ago. Motorweek said "our drivers noticed a tendency for the rear end to step out slightly, causing the need for a bit of correction." The slalom fishtail was definitely more pronounced. Motorweek said: "The same stepping out characteristic was noticed in runs through our low speed slalom as well. Due most likely to the soft springs of the fully independent suspension and the MDX's healthy 4,328 pound curb weight. But out on the road, that softly sprung suspension pays big dividends. As the MDX offers a ride that rivals the best mid-size sedan."
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2001a.shtml
San Francisco/Bay area has bought an Acura MDS?
At what price and which dealer? Also how is your
experience with Bay area's dealers?
Thanks in advance.
Tim told my wife that one reason for the delay for the front air deflectors was they were too fragile and needed to be redesigned. Some were breaking during installation (where I'd imagine it may get twisted around).
On a highly related note, last week I received the long-backordered front air deflector that I had ordered months ago from A&H Motorsports (I never got around to changing it to Hondacuraworld).
It came in a VERY long box marked fragile. Unfortunately, the long box was bent a bit during shipment (visible creases straight down the middle on top and bottom), and that flexing was enough to snap the front air deflector. This despite newspaper cushion and an additional cardboard piece inside.
Andy at A&H was responsive and told me to file a claim with UPS and then call him, and he'd call them back and ship out new deflector. He says it might have gotten bent while on a conveyor during UPS processing.
Let's hope the thing is durable once installed.
Nothing to be ashamed about, unless one is self-conscious enough that the minivan vs. SUV association alone turns them off (though I can understand not liking its overall styling; heck, I still think the ML320 looks more like a minivan than the MDX). The association with the Odyssey is one of the things that makes the MDX, thus far, an outstanding vehicle.
To complete the thought and to add balance, Car and Driver did say it "sometimes looks like a minivan" and they sometimes confused it with their MPV photo van. But they also said, "if such soccer-mom associations scares off buyers, well, that's a shame ... although ... driving dynamics are not as engaging as the X5's ... it is certainly more practical, imbued with the 'ute' that all SUV's promise but so few deliver."
Anyway, my reservation is up for grabs. It can be found here. Please spread the word! Thanks.
I have three big dogs. I usually only drive with one, but sometimes two. I owned a 1998 subaru outback limited and went to the 99 Grand Cherokee. The lease is up on this in June. I drive about 20k miles a year highway mainly. Very infrequently do I take my vehicle off road and when I do, it is on a dirt road with some tree roots.
The moon roof over the drivers area on the Sub seems useless as it does not open completely. I test drove the car and liked it but it seemed a bit narrow in the width compared to the other ones. I am not a big man either. The price on the VDC certainly less that the others but not by much. (except for the BMW)which is up there.
I am looking for some feedback on the following:
1-Resale value compared to the others.
2- Crash ratings compared to others.
3- Value for the money compared to others.
4- Longevity
All seem to be great cars but any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks
Felch
Nothing wrong w/ that. An SUV/minivan hybrid is more useful than an SUV/wagon hybrid or an SUV/sportscar hybrid. Hybrids are where the car makers are headed...
The THUD is addressed in different places, so browse through the thread
http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=333
The more current info is excellent.
DBastian
I also have a 2000 4WD Tundra, but since this was a new toy (actually for my wife), I decided to take it for a 'test' drive in the sleet and snow.
Here's my take:
The MDX is very capable on ice and in snow. I deliberately found steep icy hills, stopped in the middle, and gunned the throttle. The rear wheels just kicked in without drama, and the MDX just motored up the hill.
The MDX definetly drives differently than my Tundra. Not better or worse, but different. You can really tell that the MDX was designed as a Front Wheel Drive vehicle. It has the characteristic front wheel drive steering feel (oversteer) when the MDX is on the really slippery stuff (but it maintains it's composure an just motors on).
When it get's REALLY slippery, you can feel either the front or rear slip (ever so slightly). This is probably because either
1) this system is designed to distribute the power front and rear. This is different from the Tundra (in 4WD) that distributes the power RF & LR and LF & RR.
2) my Tundra power is through a transfer case that locks the drive train, and the MDX is an on-demand system that has to sense slipage.
As a note, for those who are not familiar with 4 wheel drive systems, #1 may sound more advantages, but the Tundra cannot be driven in 4WD on anything less than slippery conditions (it can't even be driven in 4WD in heavy rain or slush - just mud or snow).
SUMMARY: The MDX is very capable in the snow and ice. I had no problems going through ice, compact snow, and deep fresh snow. The system does feel different than traditional 4WD trucks; not necessarily better or worse, just different.
interior. Combo is eye catcher and KO :-)
I have changed colors twice ( Green -> deep Mahogony ->
Emerald Green). It has best of both, dark green and blackish
look. We are thorouhly enjoying the MDX in the New England
winter. I think it was worth the wait. Every facet is awesome,
sound, leather, climate control, seven seat option, room and
stereo.
I test drove ML320/430, RX300, QX4 and Pathfinder. None of
those came close to MDX. I withdrew the deposit from MB
dealer (glad it was refundable deposit). Ours is MB family
and everybody rethinking after MDX.