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$10,000 will buy?

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  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    How bout an old Jag XJ6 or XJS with a 350 Chevy V-8? It'll exorcise a lot of the british demons, replace the worst automatic transmission ever built with a GM model, and you won't have to take it to "Klaus" (Or whoever his english cousin is) to get a tuneup.
    "What are the downsides to this?" You may be asking.
    I'll let our host fill you in on that one ;-)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Can you say Micky Mouse?

    I've seen a lot of these conversions. That Jag engine may have been the best part of an otherwise miserable car. They should have transplanted the electrical systems instead!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, I agree, it's a silly bit of business I think...taking the BEST PART of a Jaguar, the engine, and throwing it away! What bedevils a Jaguar is some of the electrical and hydraulic stuff bolted or near the engine, so by the time you've done the conversion, you have a no more reliable, noisier, more gas-guzzling, car worth LESS than when you started. I don't get it, but maybe if you tell me again why this is a good idea?
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    V8 rumble?

    Lots and lots of torque?

    The deep satisfaction you get drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa?
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Cougars seem to have more of a junior T-Bird image than an upscale Mustang image, but there's a road test in a '67 Motor Trend of a Cougar set up by the factory for Trans Am racing with a Cobra engine (with 2x4v), 4.44 gears and a racing clutch. Not the ticket for rush-hour commuting, but a Cougar with a mildly modified small block (Edelbrock Performer package?) and 4-speed AOD would be a very nice driver. Wouldn't consider a big block, too many compromises. Don't know how much they cost these days, but generally less than a Mustang, so must be well under $10k.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Ha! Something like that....no, seriously, the Jaguar engine is specially cradled in the driveline for extra smoothness and quiet...this is all lost with the V8 conversion, as you can't use the same mounting system. The very essence, purpose and reason to live for the XJ6 is the "silky quiet" of the ride and drivetrain. Destroy that and you have spent $10,000 to build a 1985 British Buick. And unless you put a big block Corvette in that heavy sedan, you're not going to notice much in performance gain either. It's a lose-lose situation, except for the person selling the conversion kit.

    Oh, there is a plus. You can get tune up parts and oil filter at Pep Boys.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    That's very moving. The moustache is especially evocative. Does the Louvre know about you? Should they? ;-)
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    My brother built a '58 Mark II with 350 and 4-speed straight out of a (shudder) '74 Camaro, and it was a blast. But I hear Shiftright. That same car with a 3.8 would have been very quick and worth far more. On the other hand, the Mark X I drove could have used another 50 lbs/ft and/or a much better automatic.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, a Mark X isn't the lovely car the XJ6 is, so maybe not worth saving as an original anyway.

    As for the Mark II, it's a pretty valuable car these days, so chopping it up for a hot rod may not make a lot of sense anymore.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Absolutely. This was ten-plus years ago.
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    I can get an oil filter just about anywhere - not much else, but an oil filter.

    Rea98d - I'm not talking to you - so there!!!!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Isell mentioned possibly an old muscle car as a domestic choice. I've always liked old Pontiac convertibles from the 60's...full-sized ones like the Bonneville and Catalina. They were big, yet sporty and handle fairly well for their size. In the later years, they got less sporty and more luxurious and ponderous. Out of them all, my favorite is the 1967...last year of the vertical headlights and just before the beak started getting too ponderous. They came standard with a 389 or 400 v-8, so they've got plenty of power (A Chevy or Ford full size would have had an inline 6 as standard, by comparison, and then the next step up would be a small V-8)

    The big Pontiacs are not nearly as popular as GM's intermediate muscle cars, but the prices on them aren't nearly as bad either. I paid $3775 for my '67 Catalina 6 years ago. It needs some work (a/c not working, power top not working-no hydraulic fluid, etc), but you'd probably pay a lot more than that for a basket case hardtop muscle car.

    I always liked 'em because they show that a full size car can still be sporty. How many legitimate full-size cars in the last 25 years or so could the adjective "sporty" be applied to? Not too many!
    -Andre
  • ksm1ksm1 Member Posts: 17
    I have always liked the first generation Cougars. An uncle had a 67 or 68 with a 351 that I drove a few times when I was a teenager. Ill have to do some research.

    I am amazed to say this but I was stopped at a light and I saw a group of 7 or 8 guys on SCOOTERS zip through the intersection - go figure!

    Also this weekend, my wife and were out and she pointed out a 911 and asked if I had thought about one of those. So, for no more than $15K could a 911 be a solution?
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Good to hear that you like early Cougars. Unless your uncle's '67-8 Cougar had an engine swap--possible, it's easy to do--it had a 289 or 302. They do perform well with this engine. The '69-up had the 351, either Windsor or Cleveland.

    I had a '68 with a 351 out of a Torino and didn't care for it that much. The 351 is heavier than the 289/302 and you can definitely feel the weight on the front end. This negates one of the best things about the early Cougar: its balance.
  • ksm1ksm1 Member Posts: 17
    Speedshift - I remember first generation and 351 Cleveland about that car. He did replace the original motor by the time I drove it in around 1980. Same uncle still drives a 74 Cougar he bought new.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, that 67-68 Cougar could have also had a 390.

    Remember? They built a few Mustangs and Cougars with the 390 shoehorned in there.

    Changing spark plugs was a nightmare.

    One night a punk in his dad's 390 Mustang GTA decided, with a smirk on his face, to stoplight race my buddies 66 Gran Sport Skylark.

    The smirk disappeared and I think he gained a healthy respect for those G.S. emblems that night!
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    No, the louvre doesn't know about me. I'd kinda like to keep itt that way.
    Andy-What did I do? It's not like I desicrated an international art treasure or anything? Oh, um, never mind.
    They made more thanone Jag
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    ksm1: Your uncle is a good man. When I bought the '68 it had a '70 351C 4-barrel that was a real treat to listen to--11.1 CR, ports the size of sewer lines. Had a blown C-4 which I should have rebuilt, but I sold the engine and trans for what I'd paid for the car, then bought a Torino dirt cheap for the drivetrain. Guess it made sense at the time.

    Isell: Yes, I remember the big block Cougar and, of course, I had one, an ultra-rare--but not ultra-desirable--390/2v. Had so much weight on the front end that something in the body (sub-frame?) would creak when I took a corner fast. You're right, the "hi-perf" 390 was not a world beater from the factory. I had my 390 rebuilt with Edelbrock, Holley and a very nice Competition Cams 270 hydraulic. Really woke it up. When I fired it up for the first time it was running hot and blew off the lower radiator hose. I was leaning over the engine and got a face full of hot coolant--I'm sure the entire neighborhood heard me express myself about that. I thought I'd been blinded. Lost thousands of dollars when I sold the car. That was the last old car I owned, don't know why. Of course, your friend's nailvalve wasn't putting out much hp either--that was a battle of late '50s engine design--but the Buick had a secret weapon, the switch-pitch AT.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well...for a car that didn't put out much horsepower, there were few, and I mean VERY few street legal cars that could beat it. I remember at Lions Drag Strip, that Buick surprised a lot of people when it would do the quarter in the 12's! Pretty stock too...headers, a hotter cam as I recall and not much else.

    It was a four speed.

    And, you know, for less than 10K, a lucky person might even be able to find one of these?

    Now, THAT would be a find!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I know about the facr full of coolant! I got mine one day when I worked in a gas station. I made the dumb mistake of wiggling a rotton heater hose while looking for a leak.

    The hose blew, of course. Actually, it wasn't coolant. It was RUSTY radiator water from an old Valiant!
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Mine was 200+ degree antifreeze--very refreshing. When you work on (and under) cars enough, you have a few close calls. A '67 GTO almost fell on me when I was replacing the clutch. I'm just not safe around cars.

    Okay, I'm a little hard on Buick engines (you remember what I said about the 340). Lennie Kennedy got his '66 to do a 108.27/12.9 in C/SA with a blueprinted "Police Special" 401: Q-Jet, 11:1 CR, 425 cam (retarded 2.5 degrees) and several more pages of stuff he decided to tell people about. Note the "A"--the variable pitch stator "allows an almost three-car-length jump right out of the gate" according to the 4/66 Hot Rod.

    As for the stock 401, I'm going by Roger Huntington's guesses for actual net hp, using what I think he called an "accelerometer". He thought the 401 made 240 net, with 230 for the 390 GT engine and 270 for the standard GTO 389/335. The '65 Olds 400 made 250 hp, interesting because it was brand new, yet made only 10 more net hp than the nailvalve, but by '68 it was making 280.

    What's really interesting is that some engines were under-rated. The engine that put Ford back in the race, the 428 CJ, made almost as much net hp (310) as advertised hp (335). And I'm sure the tri-power 389 and HO 400 came close to their rated 360 hp. Huntington says the 440 6-Pak made 330 net, and my Judge beat a Challenger with that engine at a grudge night match. (Now I'll hear from the MoPar fans.)
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Back to ksm1's quest. Just checked the Auto Trader and looks like you can get a nice nailvalve GS for under $10k. That's cheap. GTOs top out at around $50k, but apparently that's for all-out restorations. What you could get in a Goat for under $10k didn't look promising.

    On the other hand, don't know why he'd give up his Corvette for an overpowered sedan--ooops, did it again. I really like overpowered sedans. But Corvettes are even better.
  • ksm1ksm1 Member Posts: 17
    My Corvette is beautiful .... to look at. As far as performance, by 1976 it is nothing special. I have a love hate relationship with the car. The biggest problem is that I find it to be to much work to drive for any more than maybe 30 minutes. By work I mean to hot, loud, uncomfortable, unrefined, requires concentration at 70 mph. Bottom line I do not enjoy the car as much as I would like.

    I think it is my experience with this car that makes me afraid of 60s cars.

    After my wife's comment about a 911 maybe I should consider a 80 - 83 SC for up to $15K. Coupe or Targa - any thoughts?
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    Go for it! I wish I could have stretched my "toy" budget to an SC or Carrera. I would go for the Targa as I love open tops and I live in Southern California where I can drive that way most of the time. If you need to drive around a lot with the top on, the Targas are supposedly prone to leaks and squeeks and the seals are very expensive. I recommend that you go to the Porsche Advice topic in the Sportscar forum for more expert advice on these cars.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Never drove a Porsche and don't know much about them, so I don't have the burden of knowing what I'm talking about, but it seems to me that any older Porsche, especially a hi-perf version, would be like the Corvette only more so: very demanding of driver involvement. That doesn't sound like what you're looking for. Most '60s cars, even most of the muscle cars with automatics, are very low-effort. You simply point and drive.
  • ksm1ksm1 Member Posts: 17
    Maybe true. However, my experience with German cars in general is that their build quality is superior from day one. I thought that the 76 Vette would have been a point and drive, but it really isn't. (I stayed away from the big engines, high performance years for this reason). As for the build quality it was poor when the car was new and now after 24 years every imperfection is magnified.

    I think Shiftright may be right, its time to sell the corvette and expand my price range.
  • johnbonojohnbono Member Posts: 80
    The years from 75-82 were probably the worst years for the vette. No horsepower, no handling. The '84 and up vettes start to improve pretty quickly, but a '78 vette is something that winds up getting its butt wupped by just about anything w/two doors.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I have a co-worker who bought an '82 Corvette with about 80,000 miles on it. His wife wasn't overly happy with it, so they traded it on a '73 Mercedes 450 convertible with 182,000 miles on it. I've ridden in both, and driven the Mercedes, and have to say that, even at 182,000 miles, the Mercedes is one of the most solid cars I've ever been in. Especially considering it's a convertible and the Corvette was a t-top...the Mercedes is probably more solid now than the Corvette was the day it left the factory.

    This guy probably should have kept the corvette though. He bought a '66 Charger from the same place as the Mercedes at the same time and ended up with a total clunker. He hasn't had the Mercedes checked out yet, which I've been strongly suggesting he do, considering how the Charger ended up.

    Just another tidbit about the Corvettes...Car & Driver or somebody like that did a test back in '75 or '76. The fastest American made car at the time, believe it or not, was not the Corvette, or any Camaro or Trans Am, but the Plymouth Duster/Dart Sport with the 360!

    -Andre
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    75-82 were the worst years for all automobiles that I can think of. I got my license in 75 and was sure I would never own a car newer than a 72 because they got worse and worse every year. Fortunately, the trend reversed and, for the most part, they started getting better every year.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,350
    I remember that issue of CD (not bad since I was only about 13 at the time). May even still have it in my parents basement (you never know when you will need a road test of a '75 Vega).

    One of the other fastest cars in the test was the Dodge PU (little red truck I believe). mainly because it had the 360 engine, but no (or fewer) smog controls. I always likeds those. The straight exhasust stacks just screamed style!

    I seem to recall the fastest car topped out at about 125+/-. Today, you can do that in a Volvo without realizing you are even speeding. Times have changed.

    If you really want a nice, what about a 1st generation M3? Been reading alot about them lately (with the new one coming out). Any idea what they run? I seem to recall they had a beastly clutch, but that can be replaced. Certainly will get noticed with that big wing.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's not that the Vette build quality is so bad as that the car looks and feels mass-produced. There is a certain sameness to all the cars and cost-cutting materials are evident. The car has no "richness" to it, because quite frankly they couldn't produce it that cheaply if it was more carefully fashioned using the best materials. What you're buying is a great engine and chassis with a body thrown in for free.

    As for the older Vettes, many have been restored to a level of quality that the factory never produced, so perhaps looking at the restorations, you can't tell how bad they were coming out of the factory.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    ...the styling, anyway. Okay, so maybe it's like the difference between a Mark X interior and a GTP interior. The '68 I drove had a few quirks. For instance, the upper half of the vinyl steering wheel was floppy--it had lost its rigidity. Tough with quick manual steering that needed a lot of leverage. And the car was only a few years old. But what an absolute blast to drive to the beach with the top off on a summer evening. I had just gassed it up and was driving down El Camino to get on my favorite road to San Gregorio when I realized I had this grin on my face from ear to ear. No other car has done that for me. But I digress.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Actually, the fiberglass quality on Corvettes was always pretty good compared to other glass cars. I guess now they use other types of synthetics so it looks pretty good for a non-metal car.
  • ksm1ksm1 Member Posts: 17
    Speedshift, Disclaimers first. My 1976 is not considered valuable to true Corvette fans. It was my personal choice to select a later more "mellow" Corvette. The following relates to my experience with my car, and my car alone. That said, Like you, I had always wanted to own a third generation Corvette. I remember as a kid I wanted one. Anyway, the day came when I said its time to get one. I read everything I could find and decided to go with a 76 - 79. These prove to be the least expensive of the 3rd gen Vettes simply because they lack the horsepower of the early cars. However, they are the end of an old design that had most of its bugs worked out. My goal was not to find a show car, but a nice daily driver. In looking at regional private party cars, I saw a lot of junk. Almost every car had been abused in some way over its life and the wear and tear showed. So I bought my car from a Corvette restorer. I paid a little more, but the car was complete, looked original, everything (except the clock) worked.

    The major pluses of these cars are looks, ease of maintenence, easy availability of mechanical parts, easy availability of cosmetic parts. Even in 76 the 350 still makes some noise and rumble when you start it up (compared with modern cars). I can't fault the Chevy mechanicals.

    The major minuses are: 1) heat, fiberglass does not do a good job of dissapating or shielding you from heat. On a summer day, even with the AC on you still notice the engine heat. 2) rattles, these cars rattle a lot. T-Tops on a steel car are bad enough but on fiberglass they make things worse. 3) I have been spoiled by modern steering - even with a rebuilt steering and front suspension it requires more concentration than I want to give pointing a car. 4) fit and finish is weak in the interior components of these cars. 5)Vacuum lines.

    Now for my mistakes with this car. I bought this car while it was apart. I drove some of this restorers other cars, he has been around for a long time etc. and I trusted him. It is entirely possible that it is just the car I bought that I do not like ... or its possible that I had built up the dream so much, that I was destined to be disappointed. I still love to look at the car!

    My advice is simple. Look at and drive as many cars as you can. Sort out dream v. reality (better than I did ... though I thought I did). Lastly, everyone is different, so buy what makes you happy!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Pretty much says it all! :)

    .....Still looking for that '52 Chevy.

    Hey..maybe my old '52 is sitting in some alley in San Pedro!?
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Much thanks for your insights. Before I got into a line of work that requires four doors, I considered the same Corvettes for the same reasons. Yeah, you really can't go back, shouldn't even try. Memories are usually better than reality. The rattles alone would drive me nuts. Just ask my Pontiac dealer.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,350
    Isell: Wiat for the Cuba market to open back up. It's probably running around down there with a Lada engine in it.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    That's cruel. Really funny, but cruel. What would that combo be, a Chevrolada? Ladalet?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I sold that Chevy the same year I bought it...1965, to a Mexican guy who lowered it to the ground the next day!

    A buddy said he had seen it wrecked a few months later.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Well, at least we know how it went. I totaled my first car on a date. An accident scene is a great place to get to know your date's parents.

    Let's get back on topic before our host finds out. How's this: maybe ksm1 would like a '52 Chevy or '60 Corvair?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If you stray off topic you can hide those posts...I sometimes do that myself and it works okay. Try that now and then if you really MUST say something off topic. We don't want you to lose your inspiration by stifling all your creativity.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Dang, I thought that was a great segue.

    Was just over in the Auto Trader online and apparently you can get a driver XKE coupe, 356 coupe or Jag Mark II for under $20k. I don't really know what that kind of money will get you, but even if it didn't always run, you'd have a car show in your garage. Sell the 'Vette.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I finally pulled up your profile. I didn't realize you lived in Sausalito. No wonder you remember the one way tunnel that led to Fort Chronkhite. Raised a lot of hell in Sausalito at Army summer camps. Had to rescue a drunken buddy one night in a bar called the Seven Seas!

    Remember the turtle races at Zack's where we once got into another brawl.

    And....my memory...I think you were once a guest on KGO? I think I bought one of your books...can't remember the title now.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    This has been bugging me. I have a tremendous memory sometimes...

    Did you write a book called Cherries and Lemons?

    I bought it!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, you have a good memory, but man, that was a long time ago. The book seems rather primitive now, but back then I was self-publishing, before I got better at it and could have other people publish my writing.

    Yep, the one way tunnel is still there, and so is the Seven Seas. We don't have as many fistfights like in the good old days of Sausalito, but we did have a murder on the bay from an unfortunate encounter between two Sausalito "pirates", and we still have a good cast of weirdos.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    We lived in the Bay Area from 1978-1981. As I recall, you were a guest on KGO and were plugging your book. I bit, and I bought. I really enjoyed it too.

    I still remember one of your reccommended cars was a 1955 Chevy. I thought at the time...I agree, but where will anybody find one. this was in about 1980.

    In these forums you've said a couple of things that sounded like something I had read years before...and I had!

    Maybe someday we can meet at the Seven Seas....No...they might remember me....Scomas would be better!
  • ndancendance Member Posts: 323
    Kind of an unusual car with cheap mechanicals in the land yacht universe would be one of the last-year convertible Impalas (Caprices?). The year 1975 pops into my head, probably with a 400 or 454. 10 grandish wouldn't suprise me. Another similar car would be a 1970-1972 Chevelle convertible, the non SS's strike me as a real deal right now (compared to Camaro convertibles for instance) and those cars drive really well for a big car. I'd have to say they handle better (at least seat of the pants) than early Camaros.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Guess what I found today...Yep! I've still got it after all of these years.

    Is that you on the cover taking that cash for the rusted out Rambler?

    Copyright 1979.

    I especially loved " The Case of the Ravishing Renault" Poor Lizzie!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No, thank god, not me! Save that book...in 500 years it will be worth something...
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