By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
You're basically right. If you were never to accelerate/decelerate, the differences in tire size would not play a large role. However, the number of stop and go cycles (city driving) can affect the impact of these tire size differences.
Tidester,
yes sir, the wheel, brake rotor, axle shaft, lug nuts, differential carrier, ring gear, and any other components that would be attached to the assembly and rotate with the tire would need to be considered. I was just trying to mathematically show the impact of the larger tire size. Torque required to accelerate the tire and its assembly is increased algebraically, however, it is not linear in relation to the tire radius it is exponential to the radius by a factor of 2(R^2). Thanks for the point though.
Dielectric is right, for all practical applications, if you have the "test" tires available and mounted on the rim, you can use the "acceleration down the slope" test to determine the moment of inertia. It would be easier, and possible. The method I mentioned earlier would require you to know how the mass or density of the tire as it varied with its diameter. This would not be possible unless you started cutting tires or obtained the data from the manufacturer. Uhhhh, I would need to look up and find that formula as well.
Thanks for the comments.
here's a link to some tires with rolling resistance numbers ;-)
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/general/news/mtbtest_en.html
I apologize for any confusion. Let's try to summarize.
I think, as a group, that we can agree that tires larger than the stock tires on our Troopers (MY 98-02) will generally reduce our gas mileage even if it is marginal.
Can I have a second on that motion? Any concurrence?
-mike
Must say that it's quite a buzz to read about everyone's experiences and opinions. I just regret that I can't meet any of you. Now if Trooper's were amphibious.....
-mike
While this is not news/info related to a Trooper, its worth announcing, I think.
My wife and I have just found out that she/we are pregnant with our first child. The baby is due in December. We are very excited, but I am a little stressed. I have law school exams for the very last semester of my law school education in December, hopefully, it will work out. In the meantime, I am also attempting to change careers, looking for a position with a law firm. For those who believe, please pray for us.
We'll be looking a little harder for those third seats now.
-mike
Best of Luck to you all!
-mike
I just wrote out another paragraph of venting on this but I deleted it to spare you the negativity.
Please don't buy any Consumer Reports publication. If you have a subscription cancel it. If you must read Consumer Reports do it at the book store without buying it. I would love for Consumer Reports to have to drop its top of the line product just like Isuzu has had to do.
Jim
The Jackaroo has been in Australia since 1984 and never had I heard about rollover problems with them. Also, I have had mine for around two and a half years and it never felt like it was going to roll. Even when driving hard through some winding roads in the Snowy Mountains.
Try having power mode on, in cruise control, a somewhat tight left hand bend with a sudden uphill grade half-way through it and cambered the wrong way, at about 90km/h. It's no sports car, and it was a hair-raising experience, but it had no intention of rolling.
Actually, the only rollover scare I had heard about was Suzuki Sierra. And that was a very long time ago.
I have the VHS video of the 1995.5 rollover "test" that Consumer Reports says was a fair test and the video shows the Trooper was put through maneuvers that would correspond to 1.2 lateral Gs. More than double the Gs that any of the other SUVs in the test were put through. The Trooper was slolomed at the outside cones while the others were slolomed at the inside cones providing a much straighter path.
The Mitsubishi Montero rollover video was actually run on the news. They drove it fast and rocked the steering back and forth rythmically such that each successive turn added to the body roll built up in the turn before. After about a dozen such wild steering inputs the Mistsubishi was up on two wheels. All they proved was you can roll anything if you want to bad enough.
Isuzu took Consumer Reports to court and forced them to admit to deliberately falsifying the "test" to cause a news worthy event. What they did not prove was that Consumer Reports intended to harm Isuzu. Of course not, all they intended to do was make it into the news. Consumer Reports even spun the court results to sound like they came out on top in articles in their magazine. IIRC it was something like Consumer Reports found innocent on 8 counts brought against it by Isuzu, instead of Consumer Reports guilty in 9 out of 17 counts.
The real proof is that there is hardly ever Trooper rolled.
Consumer Reports should have a Buyer Beware Disclaimer on the cover. You can be sure they will tell a lie to make a buck.
2. I still read the magazine and find value in some of the automotive information they produce.
3. "Consumer Reports even spun the court results to sound like they came out on top in articles in their magazine." Yes, they did. This was the equivalent to Toyota not admitting fault in the recent sludge/gel issue. Once CR had gone so far and been so vehement that the test was valid and fair, they could not afford to admit they were wrong. So they didn't admit it. That's really bad and it sucks, but it's how companies do things.
4. I don't think CR does these attacks (Samurai, Trooper, Montero) for the sake of publicity. I'm sure they are pleased that they get the publicity, but I think their reason is they actually think they are reporting information that the public will benefit from. They think they are doing good by reporting this stuff, and they think their testing methods are valid. Unfortunately, with the Trooper, once they got a whiff that the vehicle was a little tippy they went hog wild and did everything they could to make it tip over.
5. I would love to see that video! If anybody is willing to mail me a copy, I would really appreciate it. I'll send you advance payment for shipping, etc.-- however you want to do it.
-mike
I think it cannot be anything other than publicity financially motivated. Any notion that the Trooper "test" was a test and not a publicity stunt would be dispelled by viewing the video.
Paison, how do I convert the VHS video to something you can post on your web site? If I mail it to you can you do it and return the VHS to me?
Thank You
-mike
Their info and conclusions are not always accurate or consistent with the other major automotive mags, but taking CR as "biased opinions loosely based on fact" seems to be way off.
-mike
At the time of the CR rollover mess, Trooper was no worse than middle of the pack for real-world SUV rollovers per 100,000 miles driven. By far the worst at that time was the Bronco II. Did CR go after Ford? Of course not.
CR claims to be unbiased because they don't accept advertising, but what people don't realize is that they DO accept "donations". Is it a coincidence that CR consistently has singled out small manufacturers like Suzuki, Isuzu, and Mitsubishi for this? All of these vehicles were quality SUVs when CR went after them, while leaving worse domestic SUVs alone. Mighty strong coincidence if you ask me.
The fifth cup holder is the big openning in the console. IIRC it came with a piece that snapped to the top of the openning which would keep a cup in place.
Where are the other three cup holders?
The folks posting on the Edmunds CR forum are NOT the "rah-rah, everything CR does is great" folks of whom paisan speaks. There are plenty of those people in the world, including my dad. Those folks are really letting their auto views be swayed way too much by what CR says. I am constantly trying to get my dad to scrutinize CR, what they do, and how they do it. His faith in CR is pretty much blind and that's disappointing.
There is some good critique, both pro and con, of CR on the Edmunds board.
As an example, Holden is the top auto manufacturer in Australia with the Holden Commodore by far and away the top selling car.In Choice reviews, it would rate somewhere in the middle pack for quality. In motoring reviews, it would be one of the best value 6cyl rear wheel drive sedans available.
I guess it comes down to the psyche of the public in the end. Personally, I like to do my own thinking and research. Which is why I bought the Monterey and not the Mitsubishi or Toyota.
That said, I am highly disappointed with what has turned out.
A friend of mine works at the SIA plant and mentioned that Isuzu would start a decontenting program that would make them the cost leader in the GM SUV lineup. That is what I want. I do not want a bloated SUV that looks like I am seeing it from one of those 'fat' mirrors at the carnival.
What I was really hoping for a decontented Tahoe with a duramax and a manual transmission.
That said, does anyone have any additional information on an Isuzu decontenting program? I have googled it and not found anything.
-mike
If I win, I'll buy Isuzu back from GM and get Subaru to let us merge. We can start cooperating with the Subie folks in making cool, different, fun, practical trucks to complement their cars.
-mike
-mike
Any help or input would be much appreciated!
(21 million tomorrow night, which will enable me to buy a few rigs from Paisan, but I'll pass on the dealership).
And it's Ascender :-)
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Can you tell what trim level it is? All 1998 Troopers are "S" models but there are 2 major option packages which are available only on auto trans models. The Performance Package includes several things, including a better 4WD system (called Torque on Demand, or TOD) than the standard shift-on-the-fly system. The Luxury Package, which requires the Performance Package, includes leather interior, dual power front heated seats, giant moonroof, fog lamps, etc.
What else can you tell us about the truck? Manual or automatic? If automatic, does it have the TOD system? If there's a button to the right of the steering wheel, above the radio, that says "4WD Auto On/Off" then this Trooper has the TOD system.
If it's a manual trans Troop, then $10,995 isn't a real good price. If it's an auto trans but without the Performance Pkg, then that's an okay price. If it has the Performance Pkg, then that's a pretty good price. If it has the Luxury Pkg, I'd say the price is very good.
As a point of reference, our 98 Trooper has 63k miles. It's got the Performance Pkg and the 6-disc in-dash CD changer. It's been well taken care of. I'd like to think we could get $12-13k if we sold it privately. Perhaps that's a bit optimistic, but I have all service records, truck is in good shape, never off-road, etc.
Is the dealer an Isuzu dealer or some other dealer?
Even if some of the smart maintenance items have never been done on this truck (differential fluid changes, etc.), I'd say the damage hasn't been done since it's got only 75k miles. But note that this vehicle is totally out of the warranty period. Also, if you want to treat the truck right and the dealer can provide no service history, you will be looking at quite a few maintenance items if you want to get the up to date on the maintenance schedule.
The main thing is timing belt change interval, which is every 75k miles. You might tell the dealer you want the timing belt changed as part of the deal, so you don't have to spend $300-400 on that in the near future.
Hope this helps.
I like the 2003 Forester a lot but it cannot tow my boat.
Took a dirt drive of a 2002 turbo diesel automatic Jackaroo yesterday. Absolutely awesome!
This vehicle doesn't have TOD, just shift-on-the-fly part time 4WD. It just about idled, up a 38 degree incline at less than 1500 rpm in 4H range. The engine braking coming back down was fantastic, just come off the throttle in 4L and she came down nice and slow.
I want one!
Does anyone have any experience on what sort of life expectancy the factory brake pads on a Trooper have?
Mine are upto 43,000 kms, and my last couple of cars usually had the front pads replaced by now. The Trooper's are showing some wear, but not a great deal.
S a v v a s
Trooper brake pads, at least here in the USA, seem to last a very long time. Several folks have reported more than 60k miles from a set of pads. This is much better than the experience I've had with all other vehicles I've ever owned.