Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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Comments

  • dougmckaydougmckay Member Posts: 22
    >> And yes Jeep has the Select Trac system also but it's normally only available in their top-of-the-line Limited models. <<

    The Selec-Trac system is offered on all Libertys as long as you get the V6 engine and automatic transmission.

    I think Jeep's Selec-Trac system offers the best of all worlds...you get 2WD, part-time 4WD, full-time 4WD, and a low range 4WD all in one package.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    I gotta agree with Doug on this one, when we were considering a JGCL at one time, I would have chosen Select-trac over the more highly touted Quadra-trac or even Quadra-drive. True all-the-time 4WD just gives superior handing under all conditions.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    there is a large dealership offering V6 Liberties for 21,588 pretty nicely optioned. I read the 4cyl model was going to be available in September/October time frame. That is a very attractive price with a V6 engine. Competition is going to heat up in this segment real quick with the Saturn VUE just months away also.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    What is this VUE?

    Does it have a 4Lo?

    Will it go off road with XTerra, Liberty, Sportage? (We have already discussed that the other SUV wannabe's cannot.)

    Is it plastic like other Saturns? What is the motor?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    is another SUV wannabe. No low range. I've seen several at auto shows. It'll probably be okay for light off-roading. Think of it as a Saturn Escape.

    Bob
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    It looks like the 2.4L inline 4 that will be offered on the Liberty is the same powerplant that is standard in the PT Cruiser. I have heard reviewers comment about the lack of power that is available from this 4 banger so I would have reservations about getting it on an SUV.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Is going to be a dog just like the old 4-cyl Cherokee. However, you can only get the 5-MT with the 4-cyl. I want to know why you can't get a 6-cyl Liberty equipped with a manual tranny?

    -Frank P.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think the new 2.4L four will have trouble with the much heavier Liberty, than it would with vehicle weighing in at what the old Cherokee did.

    Bob
  • txwxmantxwxman Member Posts: 5
    You can get a sport with a V-6 and a manual. You can't get a limited with a manual. Maybe the manual transmission isn't available yet, but I imagine it will be soon. The brochure lists drive ratios for the manual mated to the 4 AND the V-6. Shall we start a discussion on the merits of the standard vs. the automatic? Is towing capacity less on the standard? Is the manual any quicker? Anybody have an experience to share about older Jeep standard transmissions?
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    would towing capacity be LESS with the manual?

    I think you meant it the other way around.
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    This video say that the Santa Fe can toll up-to 2700 lbs max.
    Autobytel Movie

    I was just wondering what is the towing compacity for the Forester, Tribute, and the Liberty?
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Lists the following tow ratings
    Escape 1000-3500
    Forester 1000-2000
    Liberty 2000-5000
    Santa Fe 1200-2200

    The Forester, Escape, and Liberty have the same capacities on their websites, the Santa Fe does not. If you need to tow, the Liberty is the best choice.
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Pls click

    http://community.webshots.com/album/15999596BxIqSirGdY

    This afternoon I parked my SF beside a Tribute, I spyed it inside my shop & took pictures. See this Tribute is look primitive, even the side mirror & both bumpers were plastic.
    That why I saw when the lady came back to pick up her Tribute, she inspected my SF all-around & spyed into my SF windows, she might surprise to see my 30 pieces wooddash inside, or regret buying the Tribute.....who know?
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    gee the Hyundai seems to be a nice little suv, too bad it is so funny looking from the outside, gee I am glad I got my Tribute DX.

    Who knows is right.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    What that mean? 30 pieces?

    Is it real wood?
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    What is that little pigtail hanging out the back?

    The 2nd picture it looks like a Pikachu!
    The 3rd picture, they look the same!
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    As I remembered, Currey ask the same question about the "static grounder"(I'm not sure the proper english name. 'cause the package is in Japanese) before, I just let him to figure out by himself w/o answering. If u know about cars accessories, there is no way u don't know this stuff, 'cause every car details shop sell this thing (Tons of car on the road has it, cost me CDN$4)

    Yesterday, I saw a Tribute parked on the local Volkwagon car lot for sale(Why the happy Tribute owner want to trade that Tribute? I don't know), but unfortunately I drove my GMC van I don't have my digital camera, when I came back 6 hour later with my SF the Tribute was gone!

    I thought Tribute might not the fastest going compact SUV but this time definitely the fastest resale compact SUV, my area only have Escape & Tribute dealership, there are tons of Tribute on road, mostly driven by Ladies, whereas Escape by guys.
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    I never asked about the tail thing, and I've never have seen any on the cars in south Florida. That said, I don't know what it is either. What is a "static grounder?" Anybody out there no about these things, or is it that y'all are like little old me and have never seen it nor heard about it? . . . Anybody?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Are you guys talking about Anti-Static Strips?. burnie68 has some interesting names for them :-).

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    The tribute was probably bought at an Auto Auction in the area. I've seen Escape's, Santa Fe's, PT Cruiser's on Honda, Chevy, Toyota lots. Most of them are bought at Http://www.manheimautoauction.com . This is a Major Auto Auction for the PA, NY, NJ, DE, MD, VA, WV area. It's huge, I live right near it. So don't just assume that just because the Tribute was sitting on a VW lot it was traded by someone. It could have been a repo that the dealer got at the auction and thought..... "man these thing are selling like honey to bears, we need one to bring the people in, let's get it."


    Odie

  • jmlagascajmlagasca Member Posts: 37
    Bill... you can see Mazda Tributes for sale at the local Volkswagen dealers here in Nor Cal ALL THE TIME!!! That's b/c the Volkswagen dealer is also a Mazda dealer, it's where I got my Tribute.
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    I guess the reason I never saw them is that living in Florida, we don't get much static build up in the car. I vaguely recall being shocked getting into my car up in Cleveland during the winter. Guess it is more of a northern climate type thing.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    sasquatch is 100% correct. I actually thought those were 2 Santa Fes in that 3rd photo. I had to look again. And the plastic cladding is more resistant to dents and scratches than the painted stuff - I consider it a big plus.

    Let's go back to JD Power Initial Quality study for a second. You listed the SF as #177, Escape as #186, and Tribute as #188. What was not mentioned was that the Forester was #171, i.e. the BEST thank you very much.

    Also, you mentioned that Hyundai improved in the APEAL study. The article even says the Santa Fe was #2 out of 14. Well, I know that the Forester was #1 for 2000, so I'm willing to bet a cold brewsky that it was #1 again in 2001.

    So, thanks for a very strong and convincing argument in favor of the Forester! :-)

    -juice

    PS Someone listed the payload of the Santa Fe at 1400 lbs, but Consumer Reports stated it was much lower (around 880 lbs IIRC). Forester offers more payload than the Tribute, Escape, or Santa Fe.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow, I take a vacation and another vehicle joins the topic. Welcome, Liberty owners (are there any actual owners here yet?)

    I saw one up in Philly at the car show, and really like the styling. IMO darker colors looks better because you don't see the hood line over the head lights (eye brows?).

    Kudos to Jeep for offering a V6/5 speed combo, but why oh why no full-time 4WD with a manual transmission?

    Still, it looks like a winner. It's going to easily outsell the Santa Fe and Forester, and may even challenge the Escape. I just hope that the reliability improves from the current Jeeps.

    I agree that it's a little out of place in this AWD car-based topic, but it'll be cross-shopped more often than not, so...

    -juice
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    good to have you back, I thought you just had finally given up on this forum, took you forester and went home. It's nice to see you posting again.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Jeep is going after Forester, Santa Fe, CRV, etc. folks, as well as traditional off-roaders like the Xterra.

    I've driven two Libertys. Both models exhibited excellent initial quality; the best I've seen on any Jeep to date, and I've been following this brand closely for years. They have a brand new state-of-the-art factory to build this vehicle. So, if there's any Jeep that has the potential to reverse Jeep's poor relability image&#151;this is the one. It's clearly not business as usual. Only time will tell, but my early observations are very positive.

    Bob
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Here is the actual payload showing on the Santa Fe each model:
    1. Carpoint = 1488(lb.) and maximum of 2200(lb.)
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I just checked Carpoint. 1488 lbs is maximum payload. 2200 lbs is towing capacity.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sounds like a typo to me. No way a SF can handle a 2200 lb payload. Sure that wasn't towing?

    Edit: I checked and it was for towing. I'm not even sure about the 1488 figure.

    What is the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating)? Get that and subtract the curb weight, and you have the actual payload figure.

    Edmunds lists "NA" for the LX, and CR posted a figure around 900 lbs.

    -juice
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    This is what Edmunds.com have on the search engine from Yahoo: ***If you used the search as "Payload on Hyundai Santa Fe***

    Maximum Cargo Capacity: 78 cu.ft.
    Maximum Payload: 2200 lbs.
    Maximum Towing Capacity: 3500 lbs.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Most full-size 1/2 ton pickups are less than 2200 lbs., in terms of payload.

    Bob
  • vin_weaselvin_weasel Member Posts: 237
    The Sante Fe has a max payload of 1488, just like was posted earlier. If you take the GVW and minus the Curb weight is actually goes up 200lbs. The 2200 is just for towing.
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    I should say Trib looks better! SF styling is overdone, IMO. I myself own a Forester with painted cladding (S Prem model), but wish I had a non-painted textured plastic cladding like on the Forester L model. I love textured plastic: it's very practical, yet gives a nice rugged look to the SUV. Cladding was the only reason I was on the fence for a long time, choosing between the L and S+ models of the Forester.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    You mean people actually LIKE that garish stuff on the sides of cars?????

    I go so far as to take a hairdryer and remove the stickers (Civic, DX, dealer name, ...) and anything else which isn't bolted down. I removed the "H" emblems, but have them to put back on when I sell the car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No offense, but it's better than scratched paint and dented metal.

    The plastic cladding is almost like a teflon, and it bounces back to even pretty hard impacts. Sheet metals would ding and scratch.

    Also, it's easier to clean. I just pressure wash it and it's done. You don't even need soap, nor do you ever have to wax it.

    Given the rough-and-tumble image of these things, at least I can say my Forester can handle some serious abuse. Like from a 2 year old! ;-)

    I too debadged my Forester - the dealer sticker and the "AWD" stickers from the windows are history.

    -juice
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    I'd rather have touch up paint than look at fugly plastic all the time.

    Same applies for car bras. I would much rather have dings (even without touchup!) than a piece of black vinyl!!! UGH!!!
  • mad0865mad0865 Member Posts: 176
    I'm going to have to agree with Juice & Kate, the black fender moldings are much easier to maintain (especially when going off road), easier on scratches and it looks sportier (to me at least)

    MAD
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    The fender moldings, I thought you were talking about that Pontiacesque lower cladding junk.

    Those I can live with.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester has both, sort of. They're just not as garish as what Pontiac uses.

    Seriously, though. When I wash my car I don't have to get on my hands and knees. Waxing painted metal low down to the ground is a royal pain - you have to lie on the ground to get everything.

    It's rust proof, ding proof, scratch proof, wash-free, and wax-free. Even if it doesn't look as nice as, say, the Forester S Premium's monotone paint scheme, I'll take it.

    -juice
  • bluffhousebluffhouse Member Posts: 33
    Hyundai has obviously surpassed the Japanese in safety engineering.
    I've heard a lot of talk about the Koreans someday equaling Japanese quality, now it's time for Japan to equal Korean quality.
    From looking at both the Lexus RX300 and the Santa Fe, my pick would be the Santa Fe due to better interior construction, safety and overall build quality. The RX300 just looks kind of cheap inside and looks like a vertically stretched Focus. Somehow the Japanese cannot quite match the Korean stitch acuracy. The seams tend to not be real straight, the stitch density is less and the seat covers are just not tailored to fit the seat cushions as well.
    Logic tells me if they can't get the visable things straight, the internal things you can't see are also inferior, and at about twice the price. For me, it's a hard sell when someone trys to tell me a sloppy built product is better than a neat, acurate and attractive product. Even though Toyota and Lexus have been in the past, this a new age and cars are being built to a higher standard. And guess what, this higher standard is no longer coming out of Europe, USA nor Japan, but out of Korea. They may lack selection, at least now, but what they do offer is of a higher standard.
    To me, I saw this coming a long while back. I got a lot of flack from people that are too stubborn to see the truth. With almost every item that's been sold for the last twenty years coming out of either China, Thaiwan, or Korea, they got good at manufacturing. In manufacturing, it doesn't matter whether you build cars or toasters and barbeques, if you build enough of them you will likely have some pretty good manufacturing techniques. The tig welding being done on the mountain bikes coming out of Thaiwan is riteous to bicycle enthusists. I'll bet 2/3's of the motherboards everybody is using was built over there.
    At this point in time, with a 10 year 100,000 mi drive/power train warranty and half the price of the RX300, I'd rather donate the money saved to charity than buy the inferior RX300.
  • bluffhousebluffhouse Member Posts: 33
    It is really a closer match to the Rav4 or the Sportage. It's really a smaller vehicle. I think the Sportage has the most appeal because of a real frame, but with all those complaints, too bad.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    the Korean car makers have come a long way from the Hyundia Excel days. I read an article about how unfair the trade practices are between our two contries. Along with how their culture frowns at people in their country that buy cars made from other countries. U.S., Japanese and Euro's are having a heck of a time establishing any market in South Korea. Also, if it weren't for trade quotas the Koreans would flood the U.S. car market with inexpensive vehicles. I believe in trade, fair trade that it is... As far as manufacturing.. the U.S. has the most productive work force in the world, best educated and most diverse. Its labor costs that have forced manufacturing overseas. Heck, why pay someone $15 an hour when you can pay someone $15 a day?? Its all fun and games until you loose your job...
    Saw my first Jeep Liberty today and the back portion really reminds me of the Escape. I believe the Jeep will lure more of the crowd that wants the tough 4x4 image. I believe it will steal from the Xterra group. Looked pretty good though...
  • docralphodocralpho Member Posts: 50
    I have been struck by the sorts of vehicles produced for the US market as largely being the products of "image" and Madison Ave. marketing. Too, most of America has been largely tamed, and freeways with fast foods link our cities. Thus, today's 4 x 4s are mostly either image machines and/or grocery-getters; and, as such, they are very wasteful of resources (e.g. commuting in a gas-guzzlin 4 x 4 to work in Phoenix or LA.) Some of the vehicles in the USA are the product of various hobbies, many of which are somewhat silly, if not fun for the participants (mud runs, rock-climbing, etc).
    The European and Australian 4 x 4 market seems to be one of true off-roading, adventure machines (trips across Asia, Africa and Australia), or ones that are used in the outback. This is quite apparent if you have been overseas, or read car magazines from Europe or Australia.There is a much greater emphasis on function and fuel economy.
    Those overseas markets have many vehicles not seen here, which in their absence, make our vehicles seem pedestrian and bland. Nissan, Toyota, Land Rover, and many others build fabulous vehicles for the Euro/Aussie markets, and those regions also have great aftermarket and camping accessories not sold here, either. Too bad....
    The Jeep Liberty appears to retain some degree of function lacking in many of its competitor vehicles. Wish they would market their turbo-diesel here, and perhaps build a very plain, utilitarian-only model one could take in the bush, and not worry about scratching.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    How can you say the Koreans "obviously surpassed the Japanese in safety engineering"?

    I don't think Hyundai has yet to produce any "Best Picks" in the industry's toughest IIHS tests. Look at this link:

    http://www.crashtest.com/hyundai/ie.htm

    And you'll find Hyundai is literally covered with "Poor" safety scores. Click on the link the Lexus and you'll see no scores below average or acceptable. Kia does as bad if not worse than Hyundai. Daewoo also has plenty of bad scores. Diahatsu takes the cake with the absolute worst scores I've ever seen.

    Newer Hyundais seem to be much better, but they still have no "Best Picks" to match the RX300.

    And if the Sportage has the most appeal because of its real frame, what about Hyundai's "fake" unibody design? Unibodies are in fact far more rigid than full length ladder frames, and tend to protect occupants better.

    -juice

    PS Subies rule the Outback. They even get low ranges there. Just check out the photos at Stockton Beach at the Yahoo Forester Club.
  • docralphodocralpho Member Posts: 50
    Here's a link comparing Liberty with other small SUVs:


    http://www.money.com/money/depts/autos/onwheels/archive/0105a.html

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't think it'll lead the class, but I'll bet it'll be 2nd after the Escape.

    16mpg city, though? Ouch.

    -juice
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    The link does not mention any comparison with the Santa Fe and the Forester. Basically they are just telling more information about the Liberty quality.

    Like I said before bigger engine will happen as quote on the link:
    "One place the Liberty isn't a winner in the numbers: gas mileage. The V-6 gets 16 mph in the city and 20 on the highway -- less than all other small SUVs."

    I noticed the link said the Liberty is running the Front Indepedent Suspension while the Santa Fe is running the Rear Independent Suspension. Which is better; anybody know? Isn't because the Liberty is better for off-road and also have a good ground clearance; what happen to the rollover. Isn't the higher the car the better chance of rollover. Since the Santa Fe is have a good ground clearance but then the Santa Fe is wider compare to it competitors which prevent much better on roll-over!

    **However, I do see the Liberty offered a good price too**
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I believe the Santa Fe has an independent suspension front and rear. The Liberty's front is independent, but the rear use a solid axle.

    Which is better depends on where you are using it. Solid axles tend to better off road, while indpendent suspensions tend to be better on pavement.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's due to the fact that it weighs a bit over 4000 lbs. In fact, it's about 800 lbs. heavier than the Cherokee, which it replaces, and it's also considerably heavier the Escape, Rav4, etc..

    Despite what many have said, this vehicle is built for very rugged off-road use, hence the heavy weight.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Jeez - and I thought the Santa Fe was porcine!

    Guess you can't have it all. I still don't see a clear class leader, and there is definite room for improvement on every model here.

    -juice
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