Well! I see the RX300, ML, X-5, MDX used the independent suspension too. Would you consider these type of vehicles good for off-road compare to the Liberty?
No, actually, I'd say the Liberty would eat those for lunch on the Rubicon trail. Way more ground clearance, live axle, more torque, not to mention a low range that essentially quadruples its hill climbing torque (and also eases descents).
Basically, I think Jeep stuck with the truck format, and just made it more car-like. But it's porcine and drinks fuel with that lunch.
All the others here are really cars. The Forester is a beefed up Impreza with an engine from the Legacy (EJ25). The Escape/Tribute are based on the Mazda 626 sedan, with an engine from the Taurus (Duratec). The Santa Fe is based on the Sonata, with an engine based on the Sonata's as well.
Is that a bad thing? Not if you're on pavement 99% of the time.
<< Well! I see the RX300, ML, X-5, MDX used the independent suspension too. Would you consider these type of vehicles good for off-road compare to the Liberty? >>
Not a chance. The Liberty, besides being built like a truck, has a true low range (2.72:1 ratio) like every other Jeep out there. Besides, with the tow package, it can handle a 5000 lb. trailer. Only the X-5 can match the towing capacity.
With more than 90% time is on-road (the general public owning a nice SUV), it seems not so smart to buy a mini-SUV good in OFF-ROAD but not particularly good(comfortable, safe...etc) ON-ROAD! If Liberty can prove to be a good value, good safety, comfortable & handling like a car, then I will consider to trade my 5.9L V8 Durango to Liberty, otherwise what for?
rsholland: BMW X5 is on a different class, more $$$, bigger engine, it is not fair to compare to all the mini-SUV here.
X5 is not the only SUV can tow 5000 lb. trailer, my Durange 5.9L V8 can easily handle 5000+ lb. too.
Telling you the most powerful SUV on earth is the Escalade which has almost 400 hp. X5?????? Just a rich man toy which playing start off game with other passenger cars in front of Traffic-light!
I think when Bob referred to the towing capacity of the X5 it was in regards to car-based SUV's vs truck based. The Durango is truck based...but of course you knew that, right?
All these vehicles are in a different price class.
I've driven two Libertys. it's the best Jeep, IMO, by far. For people who need to tow and go off road, it's the best choice out there. If you don't need that capability, buy something else.
those luxo-utes for breakfast, lunch and dinner in an offroad situation. Noway would you want to take a MDX or an RX300 offroad! Liberty is going to give Ford/Mazda a run for their money. Diam/Chry and mass produce these just about as fast as Ford/Mazda can the Escape/Trib. Prices are looking very good also right from the get go. Diam/Chry is coming out swinging in this market segment. I haven't test driven one yet. Planning on test driving a Liberty Tuesday.
I just (Friday) bought a 1997 Jeep Wrangler Sport.
Went to Maine this past weekend, and already had it off road, sort of. Went on a unmaintained fire road in Kennebunk, and on the back side of the beach area in Moody.
Goodness, this thing is going to be so fun. People wave at you and carloads of college girls scream at you for (what seems like) no reason (maybe they didn't see the ring on my finger?).
I anticipate using this vehicle in many outings and vacations for skiing, boating, fishing, mountain biking, hiking, etcetera.
I commute about 5 miles to work, and mileage is not a big concern, even though the environmentalist in me is a nag.
I plan on getting a small utility trailer for coolers, beach chairs, and sleeping bags for when we vacation with the dog, and otherwise there is plenty of room. Also plan on getting the spare or receiver hitch mounted bike and ski racks.
I think if the time comes to buy an "enclosed" SUV, the Liberty deserves a long look. Hopefully in a few years, they will have made more room behind the back seats, and I might trade up for that.
The Liberty is great on road and excellent off road. I've put over 1000 miles on mine in city and highway miles and can tell you it's a great truck. It has a very stable and comfortable ride. I've also driven the Sante Fe at length. I like it but I prefer the Liberty. It depends on your taste of course, but as far as handling the Liberty is no more likely to roll over then the Sante Fe. The engineers at Jeep worked very hard to keep body lean to a minimum and they've done a great job. The Liberty has a ride not unlike that of a sport sedan, while the Sante Fe is more like a luxury sedan. Neither rides like a truck. I've driven an Isuzu Trooper for 11 yrs so I'm not just talking out of my hat. "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder." And so it goes that the clear winner in this catagory will go to whatever attributes you're looking for in your next veh. However, if you're looking for a mini suv with a lot of versatility, in my opinion Liberty is the clear winner in this catagory. The IFS on the Liberty is unlike any ever made before. It allows Liberty to do things the other veh's in it's class just can't do. Escape, another truck I drove, is tinny, and not nearly as solid or quiet compared to Liberty. For about the same money it would have cost me to get an Escape, I felt my money was better spent on Liberty. Gas milege aside of course. The 6 cyl is smooth and quiet, and plenty powerful but due to the weight of the veh...she likes to drink some. But it's no worse then my Isuzu Trooper, and it isn't yet broken in. I'm getting close to 16 mpg city driving with the A/C on. My dad gets 16 and change with his Sante Fe in almost the same conditions. Check it out for yourselves. It's really worth the trip.
Congrats, squatch. Glad you didn't compromise on your needs. Jeeps are fun.
I think canman may have gotten a little carried away when he said "a ride not unlike that of a sport sedan". The Forester is easily the most car-like here, and even I wouldn't make that claim.
All things being relative, of course, coming from a Trooper you may have felt a big improvement in ride.
I took a Liberty for a test drive last week. The vehicle drove a little "heavy" and the leg room is not that great. The knee bolster left of the steering wheel was pressed against my shin while I was driving (mind you, I am not a typical driver being 6'7" tall). I also found that the top of the front windshield was too low for me. I had to duck my head to see the traffic lights. The Liberty is a very nice small SUV but it isn't for those that are large in stature.
FYI: I'm only 6foot and had the seat almost all the way back. You may want to check out the Jeep GC instead. It's a little longer in the leg area, and might be more of a fit for your size.
I haven't been able to see traffic lights for years. I have a Honda Civic, and now a Jeep Wrangler (I CAN see them with the top down).
I liked the Mustang, but it is like having visors down on a regular car in that thing. What is with these people who design cars? Don't they drive them?
get out of a Saturn SL1 or SL2 sedan a while ago. He must have been 6'8" to 7'. He just kept getting out and out and out. I don't know if he had a special seat track installed, or what. Maybe he sat in the back seat.
The first thing to my mind while driving the Lib was that there is no way I (@6'2") could use a clutch in this vehicle. I had the seat all the way back and the seat-back back a ways too and I thought the ride was quite nice. Another note to the new wrangler owner, I had a wrangler for 5 years and the "jeep wave" is one of the reasons my wife doesn't like it. I on the other hand would buy another if I could. top and doors off make it a one of a kind and with larger than stock tires so much fun. I put on 30by9.5's and a friend put on 31by10.5's>>>those rub the wheel well plastic thing. Have fun david
I got a 1997. It was the first year with return of round headlights.
I tell you, it is a blast!!!
On another related note, my 1992 Honda Civic hatchback has more legroom than the Jeep.
Jeep wave: Apparently, girls do not participate in this. All males seem to, and some older women, but I have waved at many under 40 "girls", and get either straight ahead stare, or puzzled look. I guess they just don't get it.
squatch: those are nicer. The coil springs allow for something like 7" more suspension travel. I've been on a Jeep Jamboree and those tend to do better. It's real easy to lift them, but that almost makes off roading TOO easy.
Funny - my 1986 Sprint had so much leg room that a 6 footer could not reach the pedals if they were all the way back. They even advertised having more front leg room than any Rolls Royce. Irrelevant comparison, but funny.
I've seen a few Terracans in Belize. They aren't exactly as refined as a Santa Fe, but they seem to take the punishment of Belize's roads well.
Fit and finish are right on par with any import in this class. So far I have driven a Suzuki XL7, Nissan Xterra, Toyota Rav4, Huyndia Santa Fe, Ford Escape and Tribute. The 3.7 engine is smooth,powerful and able. Shifts were also smooth. Acceleration was excellent. Visibilty was good. Road manners were also quite good. I went to a larger Jeep dealership in my area and they had 7 on the lot with 13 more to come in next week. No shortage here. Salesperson was quite knowledgable about this vehicle which was nice. He claimed to have sold 2 Liberties the day before. The Xterra, Hyundia and RAV4 are just plain underpowered. You have to wonder what happens when you load these down with 4 adults, gear and god forbid a tow of 2500 lbs. The Xterra is also a nice mini-ute. The road manners and stablity are excellent. If Nissan could just take care of the power to weight problem. Maybe boost the 3.3 to at least 190HP or so with 220ft/lbs of torque? I have narrowed my Choices to the Escape and Liberty.
...requires premium fuel. I don't know about where you other people live, but that equates to 20 cents more per gallon around here compared to regular.
I think Nissan should add a larger normally aspirated engine to the Xterra as an option. Doesn't the Pathfinder have a larger engine?
Surprisingly found out that Hyundai dealership have replaced Toyota in the very rich area in BC, the North/West Vancouver areas where those millionaires(lot of Dot.com millionaires) whose own multi-millions estate lived.
Now the neighbours beside the Hyundai dealer is Mercede Benz, Audi, Chrysler & Subaru.
When I delivered in that area before I've found a lot of Forester, may because the Forester is the cheapest SUV before, but now Hyundai are gonna to compete with all of those.
I found a Subaru Forester & a VW Beetle have already traded for Santa Fe since the Hyundai dealer open its door few days ago! Come on, Die-Hard Forester fans have to face the cruel reality, Subaru is losing share in mini-Uti! People even go for Hyundai than Subaru! LOL (Not including the 2 very well equipped + low milage CR-V I've seem in other Hyundai dealers used car lot) http://community.webshots.com/album/16837370JdAqSwaotM
Look at the rear! the driver rear end look like beaten by somebody & is swelling!
The space inside is not spacious plus drink a lot of gas. 99% of our nice SUV drivers are not use it offroad, why so bother to drive this truck on city road to show that u can go a little bit off-road & look like u are more superior than others? This ugly truck should not belong to the city, pls go back to the jungle & hide there!
You saw one Forester traded in for a Santa Fe and concluded that it's all over for Subaru, eh? There are about 180,000 Foresters on the road now, so don't be shocked if one owner lost their mind. ;-)
- kidding! -
You should be more concerned about that panel gap in your rear driver's side door, which looks uneven, and the not-so-tight stitching on your leather. Is that factory leather or aftermarket?
Cute kid, though.
XTerra S/C: Consumer Reports just tested a Frontier with the S/C engine, and it did no better than average for the group in acceleration. Gas mileage was 4th of 5, and if you factor in the cost of premium it actually guzzled the most gas money.
The Pathfinder has a more powerful and refined engine from the Maxima engine family. It's still too heavy to be truly fast.
Has anyone had any experience purchasing a Mazda Tribute on the x-plan? What is the difference from dealer invoice on the x-plan for the Tributes? Are dealers honoring the x-plan on Tributes?
You said you saw the new Hyundai Terracan? How does it look in real life? I really hope Hyundai would bring it to the U.S. Unlike so many people who buy SUVs, I actually want to take mine off-road. But I also cannot afford those competent off-roaders like Jeep GC, Toyota Land Cruiser & even the Mitsubishi Montero. I don't want a Wrangler because I would also like my SUV to double up as a family vehicle (I really like the fact that the Terracan has 3 tows of seats). I tested the Grand Vitara XL-7, and that 3rd row of seat is just too small. I know that all 3rd row seats in SUVs are small because of the way the car is designed, but the Suzuki really takes the cake.
Yeah, but I'm not certain if that's the new model. We just drove by it.
Lots of SUVs exist there that are not available here. They have several Land Cruiser models, many of them 2 doors. The 4Runner is called the Hilux SW4. Lots of Nissans and Mitsubishis, Toyotas and Suzukis, mostly.
Hmm, 3 rows in an SUV? You already tried the XL7. I agree about the 3rd row - it's for people without legs.
There is the new Explorer. The seat is actually inhabitable. Or the Durango, but equipped they are pricey (a friend just paid $36 grand for one). Buick just came out with the Rendezvous. Beyond that you get into the price stratosphere with Tahoe and Expedition, plus the MDX and ML.
**Seem like the Landcruiser is wider and have better ground clearance; but the Terracan seem to have more sitting space but not on 3rd row (no information on 3rd row yet).**
Just got my new issue of Car & Driver in the mail today, and there's a road test of the Liberty inside. In short, they loved it. The only real complaint is that it's so heavy, and all the negative implications that entails. Although it's heavy because it's built to withstand a lot of off-road abuse.
The one they tested was a loaded Limited, with Select Trac, off-road package, trailer package and (yes!) ABS. It stickered $27-something K, but it had just about everything on it.
Saw a black one on the road today - its best color IMO. Looks good.
They did complain about the stiff ride and curb weight, and at least one editor mentioned the Escape was still his favorite. They also said it leaned a lot when driven aggressively.
I agree. A comparison between a Terracan and Land Cruiser is certainly mismatched. Hung- edmunds has an article on the Terracan, but it too does not specify about the 3rd row seat. I did research the Terracan on the web and I know for sure that it does have a 3rd seat, but none of the articles say anything about it.
axeiteira- LOL, I know about those cars. Just can't afford them and I'm certainly not going to put myself in dept simply because I want to play in the mud with a genuine 4x4.
"... Unlike so many people who buy SUVs, I actually want to take mine off-road. But I also cannot afford those competent off-roaders like Jeep GC, Toyota Land Cruiser & even the Mitsubishi Montero. ..."
Are you kidding me? For that amount of money, I could buy the 2002 Chevy Trailblazer with a kick-a** engine! I would just have to modify it a little and then I'll go play in the mud. All this is assuming that I have the cash to do it, which I don't, lol.
But I'd choose a Mitsubishi Montero over a Trooper anyday. I say this because the Mitsu's dominate the Dakar rally, which in my opinion shows that it is a very worthy off-roader.
How much to you think Troopers are actually selling for (don't quote me MSRP...)? I could have had a 2000 Trooper for the same money (maybe even less) than I paid for my 2000 OB Ltd wagon, (about $26,800). The sales of the Trooper never completely recovered from the "tip over debacle" and so they are sold w/incentives. The Trooper is also nearing the end of its product cycle.
Mike P.: You out there...help me out on this one. :-)
The big Montero is quite a bit more expensive in actual selling price than the Trooper. Of course, w/the rollover accusations currently being leveled at it one may be able to get a really good deal too.
Is a contest that is largely decided by the money the manufacturers spend. Most of the vehicles entered in it are no where near stock, and require an extensive support system of chase trucks and service personnel. It has no relevence to the day to day driving anyone purchasing a vehicle does, even off-roading.
barres- I did not know about the heavy incentives. I simply looked at the MSRP that was given on Edmunds for the Trooper's base model. But even if I could, I wouldn't get a Trooper. The Montero, in my opinion, is more stylish, and since I want my SUV to double up as a family vehicle, the additional 3rd row of seating is a major factor in my decision. I know that in other parts of the country, the Trooper is sold with a 3rd row. I feel that if the manufacturer has left it out in this part of the country, there must be a reason (safety?), so I wouldn't buy a Trooper and install one of those after-market 3rd bench.
But all this is just wishful thinking on my part. As of right now, I can afford neither vehicle, LOL.
I have a '97 Jeep Grand Cherokee that I love. The looks, handling, and ride. BUT in 1 year and of owning it (I bought it used) I have spent $3000 in repairs. So I want to get rid of it and get a Liberty or Escape. I'm a little worried about another DC product, but I've driven the Libery and love it. The Escape was also nice. Any adivce? I live in the country on gravel roads where we have some very harsh winters.
I understand your concern regarding another DC product. It's well justified. Having said that, my gut feeling is that the Liberty will be the best Jeep built to date. Unfortunately, we won't know that for sure for several years.
I'm a died-in-the-wool Subaru fan. I would suggest that you look at an Outback or Forester. Either will handle your severe winters just fine. And... unlike the Liberty, they're proven products with excellent reputations.
Unlike the Liberty the Subaru's can't tow!! The Liberty can tow with its powerful 3.7 V6. I am also on the sidelines and have narrowed it down to the Escape or Liberty. I keep reading that Diamler really wants to make this the turnaround vehicle for Jeep as far as reliability goes. The Liberty is built in a brand new state of the art manufacturing plant. As I am sure you can see the fit and finish of the Liberty match any import in the same class. The one thing that I wish is the MPG was just a few miles better. The 3.0 on the Escape averages much better MPG. I also have to remember these are two totally different chasis. I like to hike, fish and camp. An Escape would get me where I want to go, A Liberty.. A bit farther....
Kerry didn't mention anything about towing in her post, so I assumed that's not an issue with her.
The reason the Liberty's mileage isn't great, is because it's about 600 - 700 pounds heavier than the Escape. It's built for much heavier towing and much more rugged off-roading than the Escape.
with those activities you do, I can't see how you cannot choose the liberty over the escape. just for the better 4wd system alone. and dont forget, the 4cyl engine will be available soon in the liberty for those seeking better gas milage.
All worthy contenders, no doubt. I agree with barres62. I was also looking at the mini-utes. I really liked the looks of the Mazda Tribute. And the Honda CRV is undoubtedly a solid vehicle, Honda quality, built in Japan. I considered most of these. (My criteria were good quality construction, and for me that usually means Japanese but I was trying to keep an open mind.) reliable, and I determined reliability by reading these posts as well as ratings at epinions.com, lots of cargo room to carry boxes to UPS and the Post Office for my business and the seats had to fold down easy. Well here are my thoughts as I roamed the car lots jumping into these vehicles one by one.
SUBARU FORESTER We all know that Subaru knows how to build a solid durable car and the Forester is no exception. I liked the storage room it has in the back. But no matter what I did, I found it kind of plain looking, even boring. Really a car that they are promoting as an SUV mini-ute. I decided to keep looking.
HYUNDAI SANTA FE Nice first attempt SUV from Hyundai. Looks good and lots of cargo room. But I read some comments about the engine being kind of lethargic. And anyways, I was kind of concerned with Hyundai's ability to build a quality SUV. I don't think I could bring myself to spend the $17,000 - $18,000 + on one when I can get a CRV, with Honda quality and resale value built in Japan for the same or a little more.
FORD ESCAPE/MAZDA TRIBUTE These are real nice. I prefer the Mazda. Impressive room in the back, 200hp engine. Great handling! Don't like the shifter on the steering column. Also what's with all the recalls? And then I read ALOT of negative comments and horror stories here and at epinions from new owners. Stuff like, the oil draining out of the engine, rattles and other problems. Too bad Ford always has to mess up in production an otherwise well designed car. Well....on to the next lot.
HONDA CRV Now this cars smells quality! Built in Japan, probably by factory workers in white lab coats carrying clip boards. Surprising room in the back. But the four-cylinder engine seems like a rip off when you compare it to the Tribute. True, you get better gas mileage and all, but power IS a factor. And it was just TOO "mom" oriented for me what with the little table in the middle that folds up so you can jump to the back seat. And the picnic table was just too much! I can just see the whole family just headed to the park for a picnic. Yeachhh!! But, hey I don't have to use the picnic table....right? The CRV was one of my top 3 picks. But one major problem with the CRV. I spent more that 2 WEEKS looking at every Honda CRV that rolled by. Not one was being driven by a male. All of them had women at the wheel! I read that 50% of CRV's are owned by women. In my city, it must be more like 90%! I guess it must be the picnic table.
JEEP LIBERTY Looks like a nice vehicle. Good weight to it means it is well built. But just coming off the assembly line when I was ready to buy. I was concerned about 1st-year bugs that still might need to be worked out.
I also looked at most of the mid-size and full-size SUV's Well the punchline is that I ended up getting a 2001 TROOPER S. Wow! I just couldn't believe I could get so much more of a vehicle for about the same money. With the 0% 60 mos. financing being offered by Isuzu, my price of under $25,000 with 0% 60 month Isuzu financing of the vehicle worked out to be about the same as the Forester, Tribute, Santa Fe or Jeep Liberty, and you still have to add on the interest you will have to pay if you are financing and of these. I could see no reason to get any of these mini-utes over the Trooper, a luxury SUV that can do battle with Expeditions, Tahoes, 4-Runners, Landrovers, Monteros and Landcruisers, not too mention the mid-size Explorer, Blazer and Durango. Isuzu has been building trucks and SUV's for many years. And the base Trooper comes loaded with full frame construction, 215hp 24-valve V6, rear-wheel drive, power windows, power door locks, power heated mirrors, stereo, alloy wheels, even remote keyless entry. All standard! The Trooper has over 90 cu. ft of cargo. So you don't usually have to even fold the seats for cargo. And when you do need to fold them down the rear seats in the Trooper are the easiest and best to fold down of any SUV. With most of the SUV's out there, you have to remove the headrests and find some place to stuff them. Then you have to fold up the bottom of the seat (this was really a pain in the Tribute/Escape with the metal bar device it has in the back. I think this was a kind of cheap mechanism to install. Like they could not afford hinges or something. So they put the cheap unwieldy bar instead)then then fold the back of the seat down......Anyways, try folding up the rear seats on the Trooper. They fold forward with one hand. That usually makes more than enough space for your cargo. But if not, they tumble forward again. The seats fold on strong sturdy hinges with springs. The Trooper is built in Japan with alot of attention to detail and it shows. The build quality is awesome! You look at this vehicle turn the knobs on the dash. look under the hood, and listen to that solid air tight sound the doors make when shut, and you can tell it will run well over 100,000 miles....And it does. Just read some of the reports by owners about their Troopers at epinions.com. They typically go over 150,000 miles. Trooper owners love their vehicles!
Yeah, Consumer Reports said that the Trooper can roll over easier that other SUV's. And no doubt that ANY of these mini-utes handle much better. Of course they do. They are basically cars. But the SUV craze started with real trucks being converted to SUVs. The pioneers were the Jeep Cherokee, the Isuzu Trooper, The Mitsubishi Montero, the 4-Runner, the Land Cruiser and Land Rover. And of course these are the most truck-like of all the SUV's. They WERE the first SUV's. And coincidentally, they are all probably more likely to roll over that the new car-like SUV's. No doubt. But trucks ARE more likely to roll that cars. They are trucks! It makes total sense. The criticism of truck-like SUV's like the Trooper and Montero by Consumer Reports is silly. In the real world, if I were in an accident, I'd rather be in a Trooper (or for that matter, any full size frame-body SUV)than any of the mini-utes.
Yeap.....one day I was in a shopping center parking lot. And I was lucky to find a Honda CRV a Mazda Tribute and an Isuzu Trooper that happened to be parked almost next to each other. I looked at the 3 vehicles and realized that they all were going to cost about the same.....Hmmmm..... And really, there was no comparison. The CRV and the Tribute looked like toys compared to the Trooper. One hell of a vehicle for the money! In my opinion, the Trooper is a steal! You buyers out here looking at the mini-utes. Do yourselves a favor and look at the Trooper up against your favorite mini-utes.
Comments
Basically, I think Jeep stuck with the truck format, and just made it more car-like. But it's porcine and drinks fuel with that lunch.
All the others here are really cars. The Forester is a beefed up Impreza with an engine from the Legacy (EJ25). The Escape/Tribute are based on the Mazda 626 sedan, with an engine from the Taurus (Duratec). The Santa Fe is based on the Sonata, with an engine based on the Sonata's as well.
Is that a bad thing? Not if you're on pavement 99% of the time.
-juice
Not a chance. The Liberty, besides being built like a truck, has a true low range (2.72:1 ratio) like every other Jeep out there. Besides, with the tow package, it can handle a 5000 lb. trailer. Only the X-5 can match the towing capacity.
Bob
rsholland:
BMW X5 is on a different class, more $$$, bigger engine, it is not fair to compare to all the mini-SUV here.
X5 is not the only SUV can tow 5000 lb. trailer, my Durange 5.9L V8 can easily handle 5000+ lb. too.
Telling you the most powerful SUV on earth is the Escalade which has almost 400 hp. X5?????? Just a rich man toy which playing start off game with other passenger cars in front of Traffic-light!
Stephen
All these vehicles are in a different price class.
I've driven two Libertys. it's the best Jeep, IMO, by far. For people who need to tow and go off road, it's the best choice out there. If you don't need that capability, buy something else.
Bob
Liberty is going to give Ford/Mazda a run for their money. Diam/Chry and mass produce these just about as fast as Ford/Mazda can the Escape/Trib. Prices are looking very good also right from the get go. Diam/Chry is coming out swinging in this market segment. I haven't test driven one yet. Planning on test driving a Liberty Tuesday.
I just (Friday) bought a 1997 Jeep Wrangler Sport.
Went to Maine this past weekend, and already had it off road, sort of. Went on a unmaintained fire road in Kennebunk, and on the back side of the beach area in Moody.
Goodness, this thing is going to be so fun. People wave at you and carloads of college girls scream at you for (what seems like) no reason (maybe they didn't see the ring on my finger?).
I anticipate using this vehicle in many outings and vacations for skiing, boating, fishing, mountain biking, hiking, etcetera.
I commute about 5 miles to work, and mileage is not a big concern, even though the environmentalist in me is a nag.
I plan on getting a small utility trailer for coolers, beach chairs, and sleeping bags for when we vacation with the dog, and otherwise there is plenty of room. Also plan on getting the spare or receiver hitch mounted bike and ski racks.
I think if the time comes to buy an "enclosed" SUV, the Liberty deserves a long look. Hopefully in a few years, they will have made more room behind the back seats, and I might trade up for that.
Bye (for now).
Bob
I think canman may have gotten a little carried away when he said "a ride not unlike that of a sport sedan". The Forester is easily the most car-like here, and even I wouldn't make that claim.
All things being relative, of course, coming from a Trooper you may have felt a big improvement in ride.
-juice
-mad
I liked the Mustang, but it is like having visors down on a regular car in that thing. What is with these people who design cars? Don't they drive them?
I am 6'1".
I'm barely 6 foot.
The Forester has good head room and front legroom. 6'7" is pushing it for any compact though.
-juice
Have fun
david
Several of my friends have owned Jeeps at one point or another. I've always felt they were great fun, just not my cup of tea.
squatch: is yours the newer one (round headlights)?
-juice
I tell you, it is a blast!!!
On another related note, my 1992 Honda Civic hatchback has more legroom than the Jeep.
Jeep wave: Apparently, girls do not participate in this. All males seem to, and some older women, but I have waved at many under 40 "girls", and get either straight ahead stare, or puzzled look. I guess they just don't get it.
Funny - my 1986 Sprint had so much leg room that a 6 footer could not reach the pedals if they were all the way back. They even advertised having more front leg room than any Rolls Royce. Irrelevant comparison, but funny.
I've seen a few Terracans in Belize. They aren't exactly as refined as a Santa Fe, but they seem to take the punishment of Belize's roads well.
-juice
The 3.7 engine is smooth,powerful and able. Shifts were also smooth. Acceleration was excellent. Visibilty was good. Road manners were also quite good. I went to a larger Jeep dealership in my area and they had 7 on the lot with 13 more to come in next week. No shortage here. Salesperson was quite knowledgable about this vehicle which was nice. He claimed to have sold 2 Liberties the day before.
The Xterra, Hyundia and RAV4 are just plain underpowered. You have to wonder what happens when you load these down with 4 adults, gear and god forbid a tow of 2500 lbs.
The Xterra is also a nice mini-ute. The road manners and stablity are excellent. If Nissan could just take care of the power to weight problem. Maybe boost the 3.3 to at least 190HP or so with 220ft/lbs of torque?
I have narrowed my Choices to the Escape and Liberty.
Bob
I think Nissan should add a larger normally aspirated engine to the Xterra as an option. Doesn't the Pathfinder have a larger engine?
Now the neighbours beside the Hyundai dealer is Mercede Benz, Audi, Chrysler & Subaru.
When I delivered in that area before I've found a lot of Forester, may because the Forester is the cheapest SUV before, but now Hyundai are gonna to compete with all of those.
I found a Subaru Forester & a VW Beetle have already traded for Santa Fe since the Hyundai dealer open its door few days ago! Come on, Die-Hard Forester fans have to face the cruel reality, Subaru is losing share in mini-Uti! People even go for Hyundai than Subaru! LOL (Not including the 2 very well equipped + low milage CR-V I've seem in other Hyundai dealers used car lot)
http://community.webshots.com/album/16837370JdAqSwaotM
The space inside is not spacious plus drink a lot of gas. 99% of our nice SUV drivers are not use it offroad, why so bother to drive this truck on city road to show that u can go a little bit off-road & look like u are more superior than others? This ugly truck should not belong to the city, pls go back to the jungle & hide there!
- kidding! -
You should be more concerned about that panel gap in your rear driver's side door, which looks uneven, and the not-so-tight stitching on your leather. Is that factory leather or aftermarket?
Cute kid, though.
XTerra S/C: Consumer Reports just tested a Frontier with the S/C engine, and it did no better than average for the group in acceleration. Gas mileage was 4th of 5, and if you factor in the cost of premium it actually guzzled the most gas money.
The Pathfinder has a more powerful and refined engine from the Maxima engine family. It's still too heavy to be truly fast.
-juice
Lots of SUVs exist there that are not available here. They have several Land Cruiser models, many of them 2 doors. The 4Runner is called the Hilux SW4. Lots of Nissans and Mitsubishis, Toyotas and Suzukis, mostly.
Hmm, 3 rows in an SUV? You already tried the XL7. I agree about the 3rd row - it's for people without legs.
There is the new Explorer. The seat is actually inhabitable. Or the Durango, but equipped they are pricey (a friend just paid $36 grand for one). Buick just came out with the Rendezvous. Beyond that you get into the price stratosphere with Tahoe and Expedition, plus the MDX and ML.
You have to compromise somewhere, IMO.
-juice
Length = 185.4 | 192.5
Width = 73.2 | 76.4
Height = 70.7 | 73.2
Head room (1/2/3) = 40.8/40/na | 39.2/39.1/36.8
Shoulder(1/2/3) = 58.5/57.9/na | 62.4/61.2/61.2
Hip room = 56.9/55.5/na | 58.6/57.9/60.5
Leg room = 41.3/35.7/na | 42.3/34.3/27.3
Ground Clearance = 8.8 | 9.8
**Seem like the Landcruiser is wider and have better ground clearance; but the Terracan seem to have more sitting space but not on 3rd row (no information on 3rd row yet).**
-juice
The one they tested was a loaded Limited, with Select Trac, off-road package, trailer package and (yes!) ABS. It stickered $27-something K, but it had just about everything on it.
Bob
They did complain about the stiff ride and curb weight, and at least one editor mentioned the Escape was still his favorite. They also said it leaned a lot when driven aggressively.
-juice
I saw a deep blue Limited the other day in driveway not far from where we live. It looked good.
Bob
Hung- edmunds has an article on the Terracan, but it too does not specify about the 3rd row seat. I did research the Terracan on the web and I know for sure that it does have a 3rd seat, but none of the articles say anything about it.
axeiteira- LOL, I know about those cars. Just can't afford them and I'm certainly not going to put myself in dept simply because I want to play in the mud with a genuine 4x4.
You should look at the Trooper, then.
Aggressively ON ROAD? I don't believe it was designed to do that.
But I'd choose a Mitsubishi Montero over a Trooper anyday. I say this because the Mitsu's dominate the Dakar rally, which in my opinion shows that it is a very worthy off-roader.
Mike P.: You out there...help me out on this one. :-)
The big Montero is quite a bit more expensive in actual selling price than the Trooper. Of course, w/the rollover accusations currently being leveled at it one may be able to get a really good deal too.
Stephen
barres- I did not know about the heavy incentives. I simply looked at the MSRP that was given on Edmunds for the Trooper's base model.
But even if I could, I wouldn't get a Trooper. The Montero, in my opinion, is more stylish, and since I want my SUV to double up as a family vehicle, the additional 3rd row of seating is a major factor in my decision. I know that in other parts of the country, the Trooper is sold with a 3rd row. I feel that if the manufacturer has left it out in this part of the country, there must be a reason (safety?), so I wouldn't buy a Trooper and install one of those after-market 3rd bench.
But all this is just wishful thinking on my part. As of right now, I can afford neither vehicle, LOL.
I'm a died-in-the-wool Subaru fan. I would suggest that you look at an Outback or Forester. Either will handle your severe winters just fine. And... unlike the Liberty, they're proven products with excellent reputations.
Bob
I am also on the sidelines and have narrowed it down to the Escape or Liberty. I keep reading that Diamler really wants to make this the turnaround vehicle for Jeep as far as reliability goes. The Liberty is built in a brand new state of the art manufacturing plant. As I am sure you can see the fit and finish of the Liberty match any import in the same class. The one thing that I wish is the MPG was just a few miles better. The 3.0 on the Escape averages much better MPG. I also have to remember these are two totally different chasis. I like to hike, fish and camp. An Escape would get me where I want to go, A Liberty.. A bit farther....
The reason the Liberty's mileage isn't great, is because it's about 600 - 700 pounds heavier than the Escape. It's built for much heavier towing and much more rugged off-roading than the Escape.
Bob
SUBARU FORESTER
We all know that Subaru knows how to build a solid durable car and the Forester is no exception. I liked the storage room it has in the back. But no matter what I did, I found it kind of plain looking, even boring. Really a car that they are promoting as an SUV mini-ute. I decided to keep looking.
HYUNDAI SANTA FE
Nice first attempt SUV from Hyundai. Looks good and lots of cargo room. But I read some comments about the engine being kind of lethargic. And anyways, I was kind of concerned with Hyundai's ability to build a quality SUV. I don't think I could bring myself to spend the $17,000 - $18,000 + on one when I can get a CRV, with Honda quality and resale value built in Japan for the same or a little more.
FORD ESCAPE/MAZDA TRIBUTE
These are real nice. I prefer the Mazda. Impressive room in the back, 200hp engine. Great handling! Don't like the shifter on the steering column. Also what's with all the recalls? And then I read ALOT of negative comments and horror stories here and at epinions from new owners. Stuff like, the oil draining out of the engine, rattles and other problems. Too bad Ford always has to mess up in production an otherwise well designed car. Well....on to the next lot.
HONDA CRV
Now this cars smells quality! Built in Japan, probably by factory workers in white lab coats carrying clip boards. Surprising room in the back. But the four-cylinder engine seems like a rip off when you compare it to the Tribute. True, you get better gas mileage and all, but power IS a factor. And it was just TOO "mom" oriented for me what with the little table in the middle that folds up so you can jump to the back seat. And the picnic table was just too much! I can just see the whole family just headed to the park for a picnic. Yeachhh!! But, hey I don't have to use the picnic table....right? The CRV was one of my top 3 picks. But one major problem with the CRV. I spent more that 2 WEEKS looking at every Honda CRV that rolled by. Not one was being driven by a male. All of them had women at the wheel! I read that 50% of CRV's are owned by women. In my city, it must be more like 90%! I guess it must be the picnic table.
JEEP LIBERTY
Looks like a nice vehicle. Good weight to it means it is well built. But just coming off the assembly line when I was ready to buy. I was concerned about 1st-year bugs that still might need to be worked out.
I also looked at most of the mid-size and full-size SUV's Well the punchline is that I ended up getting a 2001 TROOPER S. Wow! I just couldn't believe I could get so much more of a vehicle for about the same money. With the 0% 60 mos. financing being offered by Isuzu, my price of under $25,000 with 0% 60 month Isuzu financing of the vehicle worked out to be about the same as the Forester, Tribute, Santa Fe or Jeep Liberty, and you still have to add on the interest you will have to pay if you are financing and of these. I could see no reason to get any of these mini-utes over the Trooper, a luxury SUV that can do battle with Expeditions, Tahoes, 4-Runners, Landrovers, Monteros and Landcruisers, not too mention the mid-size Explorer, Blazer and Durango. Isuzu has been building trucks and SUV's for many years. And the base Trooper comes loaded with full frame construction, 215hp 24-valve V6, rear-wheel drive, power windows, power door locks, power heated mirrors, stereo, alloy wheels, even remote keyless entry. All standard! The Trooper has over 90 cu. ft of cargo. So you don't usually have to even fold the seats for cargo. And when you do need to fold them down the rear seats in the Trooper are the easiest and best to fold down of any SUV. With most of the SUV's out there, you have to remove the headrests and find some place to stuff them. Then you have to fold up the bottom of the seat (this was really a pain in the Tribute/Escape with the metal bar device it has in the back. I think this was a kind of cheap mechanism to install. Like they could not afford hinges or something. So they put the cheap unwieldy bar instead)then then fold the back of the seat down......Anyways, try folding up the rear seats on the Trooper. They fold forward with one hand. That usually makes more than enough space for your cargo. But if not, they tumble forward again. The seats fold on strong sturdy hinges with springs. The Trooper is built in Japan with alot of attention to detail and it shows. The build quality is awesome! You look at this vehicle turn the knobs on the dash. look under the hood, and listen to that solid air tight sound the doors make when shut, and you can tell it will run well over 100,000 miles....And it does. Just read some of the reports by owners about their Troopers at epinions.com. They typically go over 150,000 miles. Trooper owners love their vehicles!
Yeah, Consumer Reports said that the Trooper can roll over easier that other SUV's. And no doubt that ANY of these mini-utes handle much better. Of course they do. They are basically cars. But the SUV craze started with real trucks being converted to SUVs. The pioneers were the Jeep Cherokee, the Isuzu Trooper, The Mitsubishi Montero, the 4-Runner, the Land Cruiser and Land Rover. And of course these are the most truck-like of all the SUV's. They WERE the first SUV's. And coincidentally, they are all probably more likely to roll over that the new car-like SUV's. No doubt. But trucks ARE more likely to roll that cars. They are trucks! It makes total sense. The criticism of truck-like SUV's like the Trooper and Montero by Consumer Reports is silly. In the real world, if I were in an accident, I'd rather be in a Trooper (or for that matter, any full size frame-body SUV)than any of the mini-utes.
Yeap.....one day I was in a shopping center parking lot. And I was lucky to find a Honda CRV a Mazda Tribute and an Isuzu Trooper that happened to be parked almost next to each other. I looked at the 3 vehicles and realized that they all were going to cost about the same.....Hmmmm..... And really, there was no comparison. The CRV and the Tribute looked like toys compared to the Trooper. One hell of a vehicle for the money! In my opinion, the Trooper is a steal! You buyers out here looking at the mini-utes. Do yourselves a favor and look at the Trooper up against your favorite mini-utes.