Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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Comments

  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Somehow, I don't think the CRV belongs with this group. Can't put my finger on why not, though. Maybe its because I've found lots of good things with all of these vehicles, but didn't even bother test driving the new CRV. I did test drive the old one several years ago before we bought the Taco and hated it. I looked at the new one when we realized the Taco wasn't going to live with us very long, but didn't like it any more than the first time.

    As far as HAF (love it) Toyota dealers in So. Cal. are worse than the Honda dealers. At least when it comes to looking - I've never gotten beyond the test drive stage with any Honda, so I don't know about the rest.
  • reblfanreblfan Member Posts: 10
    Hi,

    Need some advice. This is my first message on this board but I have been reading it for a while. I am very close to buying a 2002 LX AWD Sante Fe and need some advice on price.

    This particular Santy has been on the lot for a while. I think that someone at the dealership has been using it as a demo or something b/c it has 820 miles on it. There are some minor scratches on the interior tail gate as well as some dirt on the mats, etc. Otherwise it seems to be fine. It was built on Jan 25, 2002 so I guess it is an older 2002 model?

    I have seen all the invoice prices from Edmunds and KBB and since this vehicle has almost 1K miles what type of discount should I expect? Do you think I can get a deal since the 2003s will be out soon? Where should I start in the negotiation?

    Thanks for any help you can provide!!

    Reblfan
  • carseeker4carseeker4 Member Posts: 228
    ...at least the Toyota dealer here (PA) would call me back when I had inquiries about the Highlander! You ask the Honda dealer to call you back.....forget it! You must visit and do deference...perhaps shoe-licking! I have heard their service dept can be just as bad....any luck on finding the desired vehicle with the manual tranny. Last I knew you were looking at a Forester! You might want to get something with good towing capacity to haul the decompression chamber you need to do the 0-6000 ft trip each day! ;-) Good luck in the search...ours took months before we reached a decision.
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I don't know much about the negotiating etc. - others on the board will answer better than that. However, in California I think the law says that anything over 750 miles is considered a used car, even if it hasn't been registered. So use that idea as your starting point.

    The other reason that car may have that kind of mileage on it is because it is an "unwind" (or at least that is what they call it here in California). That means that the dealer sold it to someone who, for whatever reason, couldn't get financing, so the dealership took it back right away. I bought one and have been very happy. If in this category, it is definitely a used car - there had been a registration done on it previously. The dealership was not upfront about the fact that it was an unwind when we started to talk money, and I wasn't bright enough to know about resale values when I found out about it. I'm sure I overpaid for it, but after almost 5 years, I don't mind - I love the vehicle!
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I'm on hold for buying anything until (hopefully) May. By then the Wrangler will be paid off - I can't believe I've owned it almost 5 years, and still love it.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I think as long as the car has not been titled it can be sold as new. For instance Isuzu sells 1 year old Troopers that were driven by reps that carried MFG plates. They are sold as new since they have never been titled.

    -mike
  • mmspealmmspeal Member Posts: 122
    If you can get a good price on it, go for it but also be cautious. Eight years ago, I bought a Sunbird Convertible - loaded with everything power, V6 and all white leather interior that had been sitting on the lot for a while. It had over 800 km on it (anything under 1000 can be sold as new in Canada)but they told me it was just from test drives and I got a good price so I was okay with it.

    Whenever something went wrong, their service dept. was great and fixed it right away. It wasn't until my warranty was up and I had a mechanic outside of the dealership's service department fix it, that I found out the vehicle had been in a major accident and the driver's door wasn't even the original door! Ha ha ... so the reason I had so many issues with the power window, the ragtop closing properly,the leaks and the trunk that leaked because it wasn't sealed properly (nevermind the two aftermarket disk changers that were fried because of moisture).

    Not sure what it is like in the US, but in Canada I had no recourse. Had I purchased it used and they failed to disclose I could have gone back on them but because it was purchased new, I was SOL.

    The only satisfaction I've had is that every person I know looking at, thinking about buying a new GM vehicle gets told what that particular dealership in Windsor did. The best is that dad works at a GM factory in the same city and makes sure his co-workers (who usually by GM cars) know too.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It varies from state to state. In NYS it's less than $2K of damage can be repaired by the MFG and sold as new. A friend's mom is acutally in litigation with Nissan currently over a very damaged Maxima that was sold as new in '94, still waiting to hear the results...

    -mike
  • reblfanreblfan Member Posts: 10
    So should I do a Car fax report on the vehicle just to be safe?

    I think part of the deal is not a lot of SFs are sold in MS. Most people here buy pick ups and large truck based SUVs. Really can't tell if that is to my advantage or not. I think there are only 4 Hyundai dealers in MS.

    Reblfan
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I was cruising around the state capitol down there a few months back on my way to visit relatives in the McComb area, and I was surprised to see lots of Camrys and Accords tucked in among the SUVs and F150's. Since you're near there, I'm guessing service wouldn't be too big a deal. Carfax wouldn't hurt, imho.

    (let me guess - "johnnyreb" was taken?)

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • mmspealmmspeal Member Posts: 122
    I know that I have since done a history (carfax) report on my old car and I was still the only registered user. Because the dealership fixed it right there, nothing showed up - accident was probably never registered.

    I would just be very blunt with them and ask the questions. If they let you test drive on your own (which I know most don't anymore) I'd take it and have someone who knows what to look for, just have a quick look.

    It is too bad I didn't suspect - they really wanted me to buy that car, even had me take it home overnight one night so I had plenty of opportunity to have it checked out - just too naive to do so!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Is only good if it was totalled, flooded or previously registered. The bigger problem I've found with carfax is that it takes 3+ months to showup some items. For instance I bought a car and latter found out it hadn't passed emissions, but it was clean when I bought it.

    -mike
  • reblfanreblfan Member Posts: 10
    You bet I'm an Eli fan. I played ball at Ole Miss in the mid 80s and my son will be a freshman on the team this year. And I didn't even try "JohnnyReb"; I am Reblfan on other boards so just used it here :)

    Anyway, Ridgeland is right outside of Jackson so service wouldn't be a problem if I went with the Santa Fe. My wife and I really like the car I just want to cover all the bases. I have a 2000 Accord EX that was a demo with 8000 miles when I bought it and I didn't get the deal on it that I should have (I guess Honda dealer stuff). Don't want to make that mistake again but I have had 3 Hondas and all have performed flawlessly. I need a small SUV that can provide the same reliability and provide some of the creature comforts at reasonable cost. From what I have read here and elsewhere the Santa Fe may be the best bet for me.

    Any comments are welcome. Glad one of those big trucks around here didn't run you over :)

    Johnny

    P.S. Where do your relatives live?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That's fun - my Ace hardware guy played for Johnny Vaught back in ~68 or so. I'll email you the rest of the story so as not to bore everyone else here with our "old home week."

    I take it you don't work for WorldCom since you live north of Clinton and are still car shopping ;-)

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • reblfanreblfan Member Posts: 10
    Well....I used to work for WorldCom but was laid off in March 2001. Many friends are still stuck over there. I am glad to be gone....its has been terrible moral wise for 2 years over there and I am not the least bit surprised as to what happened since I have been around all the people involved. Long story.

    The reason I bought the Honda was the miles put on my car going back and forth to Clinton everyday. I got it out of economic necessity; now I just WANT a car I really want (make sense?).

    Anyway, email me anytime.

    Johnny
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Wow, I guess my little aside about WorldCom hit awfully close to home - sorry (didn't realize it's been in trouble that long). I'll spare you the fraud/Clinton jokes since I'm sure you've heard them all. And check your email :-)

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Changed mine recently and keep meaning to mention to be careful, make sure the housing is completly on. I had to struggle a bit to ensure proper fit. If you don't you can be in for a world of trouble.. just an FYI.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I was at Georgia in the early-to-mid-80s. Didn't play football but lacrosse. Were you on special teams? Your name rings a bell.

    Ed
  • whothemanwhotheman Member Posts: 169
    September MT, vs. stick CRV and CVT Vue. The room, off-road ability, and cargo hold design (rear door access) wins over the noisy Vue and the quirky features of the CRV.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    This is going to really make the Honda drones mad...
  • reblfanreblfan Member Posts: 10
    Yes, I was on special teams at Ole Miss from 1984-1986.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Like I said in the other forum, I think VUE, Escape and CR-V are all very good choices. It's really more preference for an individual buyer. What was quirky about the CR-V? I certainly don't think the VUE is louder than the Escape but whatever.
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Member Posts: 1,110
    I got my first good look at the re-designed Forester going down the road today.
    The way that belt-line (is that the term?) goes up at an angle as it goes rearward makes the car look better-proportioned and more appealing to me. Nicely done.
  • nandlmdnandlmd Member Posts: 4
    My wife and I are choosing between a Forester or an Escape. We test drove both and thought they were pretty comparable. It seems like both have the options we like, but the Forester might not have as much leg-room in the back seat. Anyway, all comments/suggestions are welcome.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    If both vehicles are very comparable in your opinion, then start looking at the other aspects such as dealer service, value, and ease of maintenance (oil changes etc)..
    Which do you think looks better?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I agree with bess. Take a real hard look as to what you are going to use the vehicle for. Do you like the extra power of a V6? extra towing capacity? road feel? ergonomics? Looks? is MPG a high priority? I believe the Forester gets about 3-4MPG better than an Escape/Tribute. Do you want to sit a bit higher? ground clearance an issue? More passenger room and issue? or cargo space? Both of these are good vehicles.. let us know what you choose.. Good luck.
  • turksteritisturksteritis Member Posts: 95
    I drove both & ended up with an escape. The forester was quieter on rough roads but Esape had way more passing power. The price was allmost exactly the same to the penny. I have 27,000 km,s on my escape. The only probs was I had to have the fuel smell fix done right away & just had a leaking front axle boot. Mileage is about 5mpg less then the subaru but man.....gotta love the power when you get your foot into it on the hi-way. Subie has great low end torque but kinda fizzles out at hi-way speeds. Both good picks & I coulda lived with the Subie also!
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I never liked the old Forester looks, but the new one looks pretty decent. I'd like to try one out and as luck would have it, a new Subaru dealer just opened next to the local Saturn dealer down the street. One quiet day perhaps I will pop over at lunch.
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    What type of tranny/accessories to you want? I want a 5 speed, but don't want to sacrifice all those little nice things. In this case, the Forester wins.
  • nandlmdnandlmd Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for all the comments. We're probably leaning towards the Escape since highway power and passenger space are the major factors and ground clearance and MPG aren't. What is the fuel smell fix? And where could I find out about the cost and ease of basic maintenance? Thanks again.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    nandlmd,
    Don't worry about the fuel smell. A recall was issued for about 11,000 2001 models back in September of 2000 to fix it. 2002's are not even close to being affected by it, as they have had no recalls to date.

    You can find all of this information on the NHTSA web site if you want.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    V6 Escape would be nice! Are you listening Ford??
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I think the market is too small for a 5-speed. Saturn just released a 2WD V6 VUE though.
  • np1908np1908 Member Posts: 39
    If highway power and passenger space are ur main consideration, did you consider VUE also.. I see good space in VUE and a V6 VUE would have 'nuff power too. Just a thought.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    dindak,
    The Escape/Tribute are both sold as FWD, or 2WD if you wish, V6 as well. The price difference is about $1400 between it and the 4WD V6 models.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Can't get the 2WD Escape in Canada I guess. I know CR-V is the same, no 2WD here.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    dindak,
    I did not know that. Must have something to do with the climate?
  • turksteritisturksteritis Member Posts: 95
    I guess my buddies v-6 front wheel drive 02 escape xls is a figment of my imagination. I drive a awd tribute & those are also available in front wheel drive with a v-6 or 4 cylinder. This sis in Manitoba. Check Ford Canada,s website & check scape options...there is a 2wd with v-6 available.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I received my Motor Trend today! There is a shoot out between the VUE/Escape/CRV. They quote the ground clearance at 10"?? I wonder why they chose a 5spd CRV to go up agains to automatics? Anyway Escape wins!
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Hummmm? Well, when we went to look at it a few months ago, the sales man told us no 2WD. Another wonderful sales man trying to sell what's on the lot I suppose. Anyway, CR-V is not available in 2WD, I know that. Perhaps it is the climate though I still don't see the need here in southern Ontario.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Be careful, lately the cute-ute Indy Suspension vehicles have been quoting the MAX clearance not the MIN clearance.

    -mike
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    My husband is on vacation at the moment and yesterday he greeted me with the news he had test driven a Liberty with the 4 cyl and 5 sp. While he thought it was a bit sluggish, he liked it. Anyone with any opinion/experience with them?

    I came up with this a couple of days ago - it seems appropriate for this board:

    Isn't life wonderful,
    Isn't life grand -
    We have so much to choose from
    We don't have to settle for bland.

    OK, writing isn't my thing, and I hate poetry, but wanted to say something because I'm so undecided at this point!
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    It's too bad the 02 Vue was not available in 2WD form. I like the idea of AWD but I don't think we really need it either. Maybe on a snowy or rainy day it might come in handy at some point.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    AWD helps in wet and dry, if it's true AWD (not part-time AWD)

    -mike
  • mmspealmmspeal Member Posts: 122
    That is actually why I went for the 4 cyl. manual. I wanted a V6 manual so I either had to give up the V6 or give up the manual. After adding power package and sunroof to the 4 cyl. manual, the difference between mine and the V6 AWD was $7000 Canadian - couldn't justify that amount of money for auto which I didn't want and AWD which I didn't really think I needed.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    When shopping my two choices came down to the Liberty and the Escape. Believe me it was a tough choice.
    4cyl vs V6.. In the Liberty, because of its weight I would spend the extra $500 and go for the V6. I also drove the 4cyl and compared to the V6 there is a huge difference in performance. I would highly recommend the V6.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Go V6!! the 4cyl in the Liberty is way underpowered to pull a vehicle of this weight. Load this down and the little 4cyl will be even more hard pressed. Spend the extra $500 and you won't be sorry...
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    My thought when my other half brought up the Liberty 4 cyl. was that it would be too underpowered because of the extra weight. That's why I'm favoring the Forester - less weight so 4 cyl. would be fine.

    If I were to go the Liberty V6 route, I think I have to get the auto tranny. Or do they have a manual in the V6 that I didn't know about? And I really want to get more than the 19-20 mpg my I6 Wrangler gets. Otherwise, I would probably just get second one (and try to talk my other half into a Rubicon, which I REALLY don't need!).
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Odds are I saw you play in the 1984-85 Ole Miss - Georgia games. I hope those years hold fond memories for you. '84-85 tough years for the Rebs but a decent season in '86.

    Ed
  • reblfanreblfan Member Posts: 10
    if u were there you definitely did. we gave GA a good run in '86 in Athens. very good game. 86 was my last year and we ended on a good note by beating TX Tech in the Indy Bowl.
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