my 93 mazda mx6 (fairly low nose) happened to introduce itself to the trailer hitch of an explorer or something like it suv. poked a nice clean square hole in the bumber. made for interesting conversation (and that WAS in NJ as well - i think the problem is just too many cars on the road here)
Good suggestions. I have a bike rack and use that occasionally.
It sticks out pretty far back. If a Previa rear-ended me, I bet the rack would hit the windshield first!
You're probably thinking of paisan. He put an extension on his Trooper. First a thin one, later a beefy one. It's sort of T-shaped and sticks out beyond the spare tire, to protect the entire rear end.
I was thinking of someone on JeepsUnlimited. They were going to put 3 pointed prongs about a foot long each pointing straight back. The guy just got rear ended by some goofball gal.
a Tribute LX - no ABS. I think Tribute has 3 trim levels, right? ES is tops - mandatory leather, and probably ABS too. But the majority of Tributes are sold without it.
Escape has only XLS and XLT? So I guess itis more common for Escapes in the real world to have ABS.
Still no-one chiming in for the Santa Fe. I will bet dollars to donuts that ABS is not standard. That gives forester the edge on this one. (and all Subies for that matter)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Question: (THIS IS STRICTLY HYPOTHETICAL) If you had 2 competing vehicles, and it was a toss-up between them, same price, you just couldn't decide, but one had ABS and one didn't, which would you pick?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It's standard on the 2002+ LX and optional on the GLS and Base models. My 2001 LX has it as an option. One nice thing is that the ABS package includes traction control, even on AWD models. But I think you're right, Subaru has the edge here. Do they even sell a model without ABS?
"I won't buy another new car without ABS" list. All it takes is locking up your brakes badly one time to really mess yourself up. I did it once, and fortunately all I messed was my pants ;-) Not really, but you get the point.
I was reading a review, and I'm pretty sure it was at Car Place ( http://www.thecarplace.com ) where the reviewer, Bob Bowden, spoke of a fellow receiving serious back injury because of a trailer hitch.
If I recall correctly, he was rear ended and the other vehicle slammed into his hitch, and not the bumpre. This caused the hitch and the frame to take the full brunt of the force, instead of the bumper. FWIW
"The man had been driving a Jeep Cherokee, towing a work trailer with his paints and ladders, when he stopped at a traffic light and was struck from behind by a car driven by an uninsured motorist. The trailer was hit and it transferred the impact forces through its frame, to the trailer hitch on the sport ute. That hitch was not attached to the rear body of the Cherokee, of course, but to the frame of the sport ute.
The Cherokee -- like all vehicles today -- was designed to deform in an accident. But .. it was the body that would deform. And the body wasn't even damaged.
Top experts in the nation testified about how that trailer hitch did its dirty work. It absorbed none of the blow, and transferred the force into and through the frame, which buckled upward directly under the front seat area. It was as if the driver had been hit in the back by the end of a 2X4. Even at low speed, at a fast jog rate, being struck this way could -- and in this case did -- shift spinal alignment.
The man will never have a day without back pain again.
Had the Cherokee not had a trailer hitch, our plaintiff likely would not have been injured, the experts said. The rear bumper would have absorbed the low-speed impact. A trailer hitch, a national safety expert testified, is an invitation to passenger injury in any rearend wreck. In his words, the trailer hitch "ruined all the computer work on crush zones." "
It's a college team, NCAA D3, and I'm always lookin for good runners. If you've driven to some meets, you know they make you park out in the mud and dirt. I'm hoping to christen a new subie at Holmdel Park's Meet of Champions when I go recruiting there. No time for a test drive this weekend, though.
Interesting article. But I'll bet that since it was a "work" accident a good portion of those "back injuries" are trumped up to try to collect more from workman's compensation. Not to mention that the Cherokee is a Uni-body vehicle there is not frame on it! Was he wearing his seat belt? A lot of factors we don't see in a small snapshot about the case.
You can always put in a blown fuse for the ABS if you really dislike it. I for one used to hate it til it saved my butt. Now the only time I disable it is if I'm running on sand or dirt. For offroading at least on my Isuzus, anything under 10mph and the ABS will not engage, so I don't have to worry about disengaging it.
No - Subaru does not sell any cars without ABS. Haven't for a couple of years now.
Don't forget, without ABS you'll flat spot your tires in no time. Noone can modulate their brakes perfectly, maybe we'd like to think so, but nope. Once you lock them even slightly, flat spots start developing, from that point on it'll lock up more easily, and it keeps getting worse.
The Cherokee does have a frame, it just doesn't stretch the full length of the vehicle. My Forester has a frame, too, in fact my trailer hitch bolts to the frame rails. The "unibody" part just means that the body panels act as part of the structure.
rather than a frame per-say. The frame rails are welded to the body. On a "frame" vehicle the entire weight and all components are attached to the frame itself.
"...those "back injuries" are trumped up to try to collect more from workman's compensation. Not to mention that the Cherokee is a Uni-body vehicle there is not frame on it! Was he wearing his seat belt? A lot of factors we don't see in a small snapshot about the case."
All good and important points!
"...Now the only time I disable it is if I'm running on sand or dirt...."
Also when on sand or dirt it's only disabled if I'm gonna be "rallying" since when offroading generally you are going below 10mph and my vehicles turn off ABS below 10mph anyway.
In response to this guy's back injuries, are we going to see federally mandated crumple zones built into all trailer hitches? I can see it now... come to think of it, I'll bet that even without the reciever the hitch on my Santa Fe sticks out farther than the bumper.
Hey, maybe they can use "bendy-straw" accordion-type technology for this! And when you need to make a tight turn backing up, just bend the little accordion part on your hitch into the correct shape and away you go! Yeah, that'd be a great idea!
Oh, and who's buying $40 hitches? Are they made of tin foil? Even the cheap-o universal type I've seen at WalMart are around $100 or so. The custom Draw-Tite hitch I put on the Santa Fe was around $130 for a Class III, plus wiring harness / ball / ballmount / shipping / etc. It looks pretty slick - only the receiver shows. Here's a pic:
I pulled the $40 number out of the air; didn't intend to mislead anyone.
Don't know about the class of SUVs here, but don't most of the "big" SUVs, (like the Trailblazer for example) come standard with receiver hitches now anyway?. So spend the $40 on the ball and clip pins and the little fake prop hitch cover.
It's actually pretty beefy, it tucks right down inside the bumper so you see almost nothing. I've mostly used mine for renting yard equipment (trench diggers, post hole diggers, etc) and for extra cargo space - I have a hitch mounted cargo carrier.
I don't think any of the cute-utes have a standard hitch, and I've heard some not so good things about the Hyundai accessory. Come to think of it, I think the Escape's optional hitch is a wimpy 1 1/4 Class 2. Probably adequate but it sure looks like it belongs on an Accord with a little U-haul trailer behind it.
"Oh, and who's buying $40 hitches? Are they made of tin foil?"
The universal ones which mount to the bumper run around there, I think.
I picked up an entire bumper AND built in receiver for around $200, shipped, I think. Tomken, I believe. The only reason I did that instead of the other hitch was for off road clearance considerations.
What's the towing capacity on the Hyundai? If it's not beyond a class 2 then that's probably why hyundai doesn't sell a hitch that is Class 3 or beyond.
"Come to think of it, I think the Escape's optional hitch is a wimpy 1 1/4 Class 2. Probably adequate but it sure looks like it belongs on an Accord with a little U-haul trailer behind it."
Yes it is. It too is an option, but I don't think I've ever seen an Escape, and I've seen a lot of them, without one. It's part of a package ($140 I believe) that includes the hitch, a wiring harness, and an oil cooler. I think I've read that the Class II hitch is what holds the Escape's towing capacity to 3500 lbs. A beefier hitch could up that number. Probably a good "avoid another law suit" move by Ford to limit it in that manner. I could be wrong though.
jaserb, Any good web sites to check prices on SeaDoo's or other competing models?
Is rated by the manufacturer in the owners manual, it doesn't have to do with the class hitch. For example most mid-sized SUVs are rated at 5K towing, yet most of their hitches can hold 7500-10,000lbs.
That's with trailer brakes, of course. The negative comments I heard about the Hyundai hitch were about poor quality, not capacity. Add that to the fact that I could get a quality aftermarket hitch that bolted right in for way less than the dealer was charging and it was a no-brainer.
Re: Sea-Doo jet boats - there's a local dealer that puts their closeouts on eBay with no reserve. VERY tempting. I especially like the Challenger 1800 and Utopia. Plenty of space and nearly as agile as a PWC. And their quite a bit lighter than a conventional I/O of the same size, so a Santa Fe or Escape would have no problem towing even a 20 footer. Yamaha is supposed to build nice ones, too. Most likely I'll go with a 3-4 year old Sea Rayder with the 175 HP motor. I'd avoid the models with twin 2-stroke PWC motors.
The 2" receivers look small until I see a 1 1/4", which look tiny.
Subaru has an oil cooler standard on automatics. The 5 speeds don't get them. What funny is that the auto maxes out at 2000 lbs, while the 5 speed goes up to 2400. The opposite of what you'd expect.
Aftermarket shops sell the oil cooler separately, if you have a 5 speed and really want one.
Boats, IMO, are like pools. It's best if a friend owns them.
Most MT Trannies don't have em cause there is no pump in them to move the fluid through the cooler. Not sure how expensive a cooler with pump would be.
Comments
Scares the tailgaters off some times. :-)
-juice
Does a nice job on radiators, too!
I saw a posting with a guy who was going to make an attachment with 3 long points on it.
It sticks out pretty far back. If a Previa rear-ended me, I bet the rack would hit the windshield first!
You're probably thinking of paisan. He put an extension on his Trooper. First a thin one, later a beefy one. It's sort of T-shaped and sticks out beyond the spare tire, to protect the entire rear end.
-juice
And you thought the 50's fins were bad....
Steve, Host
Escape has only XLS and XLT? So I guess itis more common for Escapes in the real world to have ABS.
Still no-one chiming in for the Santa Fe. I will bet dollars to donuts that ABS is not standard. That gives forester the edge on this one. (and all Subies for that matter)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
??
Question: (THIS IS STRICTLY HYPOTHETICAL) If you had 2 competing vehicles, and it was a toss-up between them, same price, you just couldn't decide, but one had ABS and one didn't, which would you pick?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
FWIW, Subies do have a fuse you can pull to disable ABS, anonymous02.
-juice
-Jason
maybe another good reason to buy used?
-Jason
And no, Subaru does not sell a model without standard ABS.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If I recall correctly, he was rear ended and the other vehicle slammed into his hitch, and not the bumpre. This caused the hitch and the frame to take the full brunt of the force, instead of the bumper. FWIW
- Lou
Btw, is the XC you coach on dirt or snow?
Steve, Host
Thanks, you're good!
Here's the section applying to the hitch -
"The man had been driving a Jeep Cherokee, towing a work trailer with his paints and ladders, when he stopped at a traffic light and was struck from behind by a car driven by an uninsured motorist. The trailer was hit and it transferred the impact forces through its frame, to the trailer hitch on the sport ute. That hitch was not attached to the rear body of the Cherokee, of course, but to the frame of the sport ute.
The Cherokee -- like all vehicles today -- was designed to deform in an accident. But .. it was the body that would deform. And the body wasn't even damaged.
Top experts in the nation testified about how that trailer hitch did its dirty work. It absorbed none of the blow, and transferred the force into and through the frame, which buckled upward directly under the front seat area. It was as if the driver had been hit in the back by the end of a 2X4. Even at low speed, at a fast jog rate, being struck this way could -- and in this case did -- shift spinal alignment.
The man will never have a day without back pain again.
Had the Cherokee not had a trailer hitch, our plaintiff likely would not have been injured, the experts said. The rear bumper would have absorbed the low-speed impact. A trailer hitch, a national safety expert testified, is an invitation to passenger injury in any rearend wreck. In his words, the trailer hitch "ruined all the computer work on crush zones." "
It's a college team, NCAA D3, and I'm always lookin for good runners. If you've driven to some meets, you know they make you park out in the mud and dirt. I'm hoping to christen a new subie at Holmdel Park's Meet of Champions when I go recruiting there. No time for a test drive this weekend, though.
- Lou
(I'm good, but google.com is better).
Steve, Host
-mike
-mike
Don't forget, without ABS you'll flat spot your tires in no time. Noone can modulate their brakes perfectly, maybe we'd like to think so, but nope. Once you lock them even slightly, flat spots start developing, from that point on it'll lock up more easily, and it keeps getting worse.
The Cherokee does have a frame, it just doesn't stretch the full length of the vehicle. My Forester has a frame, too, in fact my trailer hitch bolts to the frame rails. The "unibody" part just means that the body panels act as part of the structure.
-juice
-mike
Able to tow?
All good and important points!
"...Now the only time I disable it is if I'm running on sand or dirt...."
That is what I was thinking...
-mike
Some Subie owners have pulled the fuse with no ill effects, except not having ABS, of course.
-juice
-Jason
You mean "... even without the hitch the reciever on my Santa Fe sticks out farther than the bumper."?
Yeah, that!
;-)
Shouldn't add more than, say, $400 to the cost of the rig.
Steve, Host
!!!
Steve, Host
I'll keep my rear metal bumper thank you very much
-mike
Oh, and who's buying $40 hitches? Are they made of tin foil? Even the cheap-o universal type I've seen at WalMart are around $100 or so. The custom Draw-Tite hitch I put on the Santa Fe was around $130 for a Class III, plus wiring harness / ball / ballmount / shipping / etc. It looks pretty slick - only the receiver shows. Here's a pic:
http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=E&Product_Code=41543&Category_Code=H
I'm still working on getting something to attach to it (SeaDoo jet boat), though...
-Jason
-mike
Don't know about the class of SUVs here, but don't most of the "big" SUVs, (like the Trailblazer for example) come standard with receiver hitches now anyway?. So spend the $40 on the ball and clip pins and the little fake prop hitch cover.
Steve, Host
Looks like a 1 1/4" receiver, is it actually 2"?
I got the OE Subaru hitch from Darlene, no charge because I had built her web site. So that was a pretty good price. :-)
-juice
I don't think any of the cute-utes have a standard hitch, and I've heard some not so good things about the Hyundai accessory. Come to think of it, I think the Escape's optional hitch is a wimpy 1 1/4 Class 2. Probably adequate but it sure looks like it belongs on an Accord with a little U-haul trailer behind it.
-Jason
The universal ones which mount to the bumper run around there, I think.
I picked up an entire bumper AND built in receiver for around $200, shipped, I think. Tomken, I believe. The only reason I did that instead of the other hitch was for off road clearance considerations.
-mike
Yes it is. It too is an option, but I don't think I've ever seen an Escape, and I've seen a lot of them, without one. It's part of a package ($140 I believe) that includes the hitch, a wiring harness, and an oil cooler. I think I've read that the Class II hitch is what holds the Escape's towing capacity to 3500 lbs. A beefier hitch could up that number. Probably a good "avoid another law suit" move by Ford to limit it in that manner. I could be wrong though.
jaserb,
Any good web sites to check prices on SeaDoo's or other competing models?
-mike
Re: Sea-Doo jet boats - there's a local dealer that puts their closeouts on eBay with no reserve. VERY tempting. I especially like the Challenger 1800 and Utopia. Plenty of space and nearly as agile as a PWC. And their quite a bit lighter than a conventional I/O of the same size, so a Santa Fe or Escape would have no problem towing even a 20 footer. Yamaha is supposed to build nice ones, too. Most likely I'll go with a 3-4 year old Sea Rayder with the 175 HP motor. I'd avoid the models with twin 2-stroke PWC motors.
-Jason
Subaru has an oil cooler standard on automatics. The 5 speeds don't get them. What funny is that the auto maxes out at 2000 lbs, while the 5 speed goes up to 2400. The opposite of what you'd expect.
Aftermarket shops sell the oil cooler separately, if you have a 5 speed and really want one.
Boats, IMO, are like pools. It's best if a friend owns them.
-juice
That's why I want some form of personal water craft. They're easier to hide, and with three rivers, you can sneak in a ride any time, any where.
-mike