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Comments
Actually the black leather in our Limited is perforated and does not get hot at all. The grey leather in our old escape, which wasn't the best quality, didn't get hot either but it did get cold in the winter. Since the limited has heated seats I don't see that being a problem anymore.
Of course, I don't live anywhere near what anyone would consider a sun belt either.
Auto leather isn't what it used be. I can't think of a car I've sat in recently that had hot leather. It's usually just warm, i.e. no burning hair smell.
Seating is very space-efficient. It's smaller and on a smaller wheelbase than the SRX but roomier in the 3rd row.
happy2: the seat trim on the CR-V is actually vinyl, not leather. You can add aftermarket leather for about $900 or so.
I think the only small SUV with stability control is the RAV4, since you mentioned the fear of rollovers. Forester is lower to the ground than the others, FWIW.
-juice
All of these vehicles have different strengths (as well as weaknesses) and if you haven't done so already, you need to prioritize the features that are most important to you: gas mileage, drivability, safety, appearance, reliability, fun-factor, utility, cheapest to buy, etc. Then match your requirements up against the model/models that best meets your needs. Research only gets you so far though; a test drive is the true litmus test. Last but definitely not least, make sure you get a vehicle that puts a smile on your face.
-Frank
Amen to that! That is the most important thing you can do when buying a vehicle - all of the logic and practicality in the world won't make a vehicle easy to live with. I absolutely love a vehicle that is the most impractical vehicle you can get and hate my very practical (and newer) one.
The leather seats that I sat on this past weekend (99 LeSabre Limited) was sure ouchy on my bare legs, and it wasn't even that hot - I'm pretty sure it was under 100 (yes, I spend quite a bit of time in desert places).
While I haven't looked at the Santa Fe recently, I thought they offered a very nice package for not much money. I have a friend who loves her Vue, but I didn't like driving it - the way the windshield is attached to the dash so far forward created a small blind spot on the front side. It drove me nuts (too used to pickups).
I'm still sad that the Liberty didn't feel comfortable for me in the passenger seat - it is a blast to drive and very capable. It definitely put a smile on my face, and it would be in my driveway if it weren't for that.
Just a thought, if you tried a cloth seat Liberty, try a leather one. Some times they feel different.
-juice
Several asked why not the forester - mainly price - for various reasons, the crv, the trib & scape were all willing to get the price down for me to less thn 22k - forester & santa fe dealers were not. They were eliminated as that was my top dollar. I looked at the Vue, but didn't like the interior (plastic) or the feel. So, I agree with those that thought the Santa Fe & Forester (especially the latter) would have been great options.
Thanks again!
CRV does not have the reliabitliy advantage. Please explore the internet, visit other chat rooms. There are plenty of CRV owners that are unhappy and have had problems.
Maybe because the Trib/Escape outsell the CRV about 3 to 1 it may look like the they have more problems??
I would go with the Trib. My wife and I bought an 04 loaded and its been great. I also own an 01 Escape 4WD V6 and it too has been fine.... The V6 is a blast and is an advantage over the 4cyl in the CRV....
FWIW, CR-V and Escape sell in similar volumes. Even if you include the Tribute it's not triple. More, yes, not 3 times though.
When you account for the fact that the CR-V has been around longer, there are about the same number of them on the roads.
-juice
-Frank
What this dealer does (I guess it's Honda's recommendation), is to put a tray a top that crossmember so that if any oil spills, the tray will capture it, and not the crossmember.
Bob
I'd love to see a photo of that crossmember. There had to be something different about the CR-V since there are far more Accords on the road.
-juice
Hold them liable on their recommedation and see what happens...
Bob
Hold them liable on their recommedation and see what happens...
That's why they are only recommendations. Without a doubt any manufacturer can produce a lemon once in a while. However, CR's reliability ratings are based on owner surveys (hundreds of thousands of them) so their data is far more empirical than annecdotal evidence from web sites such as this or manufacturer claims.
-Frank
It has to be something else if you ask me.
I can't make comments on manufacturer claims or the value of postings on Edmunds.com in terms of being annecdotal/empirical...
But I can make comments on brand specific discussion forums. They are far superior than anything you can think including CR. They give you in and out of that make and model, all problems DIY solutions, dealer solutions etc.
I don't read CR before I buy a car but I read those discussion forums.
It is really a personal choice, I don't feel comfortable getting recommedations from people (via CR) that I don't know their expertise. Ordinary car owners don't know anyhting about their cars. But car enthusiastics do. And they are in those forums not in CR pages.
-Frank
Steve, Host
CR is useful but they do measure data after the fact. You'll see the numbers show up at least a year after launch. Until then it's just a forecast.
Here on Edmunds you can observe a new car launch live, get real data in real time. So you see problems sooner, and more specifics about those problems.
I heard CR was quoted in one of the articles about the CR-V fires, but they have yet to report on it. We've been discussing in here for several months now.
-juice
Still seems on the heavy side, though. And the 2.7l V6 is a bit thirsty.
I Hyundai can figure out how to make their cars and trucks lighter, look out.
-juice
-Frank
Yeah for instance among Suzuki Samurai owners ;-)
CR definitely isn't the be-all of automotive reviews but they are arguably less biased and inconsistent than the rest of the automotive press. And you don't have to wonder if a glowing review wasn't influenced (at least to some degree) by the advertising dollars at stake.
-Frank
-mike
I was surprised to see the Equinox score so lowly. I'll have to read the full article.
CR is a good tool if you use it properly, who else lists payload, tow ratings, # of LATCH anchors, and turning circle all in the same place?
-juice
Ditto that.
Bob
CR gets picked apart here at Edmunds constantly..and acroos the net in other chat rooms. They once had a room devoted to CR and its bias and funny numbers they come up with... CR is just not for me
JD Powers vs Consumer Reports:
Steve, Host
Naturally CR has its detractors (no one likes to read a bad review of a product they just bought) but the same can be said for the other auto rags. Personally, I find CR to at least be consistent and fairly objective with their bias towards reliability and safety.
-Frank
One of them is a member of Edmunds and enlightened us quite a bit, you'd be surprised to see how many resources are allocated to auto testing.
Most of the harshest critics of CR don't even read it (obviously, perhaps) and really don't know what they're talking about for that exact reason.
I think of CR this way - this is what a non-enthusiast consumer would think of the vehicle as a means of transportation. In other words, it's the car your mom would want you to buy.
-juice
CR isn't perfect, but yes, properly used it is a valuable consumer resource and an equally aggressive advocate.
Light = Dark
Medium = Burned
Dark = Fire Hazard
Fortunately they are not the same folks testing cars.
-juice
We test drove both the regular Forester and the XT, along with the H4 and H6 Outback yesterday. I didn't see any difference handling-wise between the H4 and the XT Forester, but the XT is sure smoother and quieter under full acceleration. I liked the suspension of the Forester better than the Outback this time, which is interesting because when I drove them both a year ago, I preferred the Outback. Also, I liked the Forester's seating better. So it is down to the Forester XT and the Unlimited (how different can you get!). I just can't get excited about the Escape Hybrid since I can't test drive one at the moment. Now if the Taco doesn't sell perhaps I'll change my mind.
-Frank
I know - I've been thinking about getting something else for several years now - about 6 months after I bought the Taco and realized how uncomfortable the seats were. But the Taco is now GONE! I ended up taking a couple hundred less for it than I had wanted, but a couple hundred more than my minimum price, and I don't have to mess with it ANYMORE! Besides, it went to a good home (wait, maybe I shouldn't have sold it to someone I liked, considering how much I disliked the vehicle...).
Now my only problem is going to be making a choice that I can afford. That sweet 2005 Grand Cherokee won't fit into my budget unless I live for my car payment, and I'm not willing to do that. At the moment it is down to the Forester and the Unlimited, but I'm still open minded about other vehicles. I think I might want to re-look at the Santa Fe. I really liked it at the LA Auto Show but have always been concerned about getting an automatic. I've reconsidered it, and think that if I put a tranny cooler in and be as faithful about the tranny fluid as I am about the oil changes, I might be able to get as good service out of an automatic tranny.
Turbos do mellow out the exhaust. Also, that engine has AVCS (variable valve timing), while the base engine doesn't.
Ask yourself if you really need two Jeeps, though. On pavement, the Forester will be a lot more quiet and comfortable, quicker and more efficient too.
Yes Frank, mtngal and I have our jeans staple-gunned to The Fence. If she falls off I'd be shocked!
Last time I checked fitzmall.com they had a left over 2004 XT for $21.3k, I think it has your name on it. Tell you what, if you come to DC to buy it I'll even pick you up at the airport and take you there.
-juice
Most people would scoff at the notion of flying cross country to pick up a new car but what with Mtngal's normal daily commute... it's not that much further of a drive :(o)
-Frank
-juice
-juice
I was all set to buy one of those and drive it back to Texas 6 seeks ago. It would have only cost me a $99 SW Air ticket and a welcome visit to friends in the DC area (my old stomping ground).
When I told my Texas dealer that -- I wasn't bluffing -- and showed them the Fitzmall site, they counteroffered with what was effectively a good price match. So I bought locally instead.
Gotta love Fitzmall and other "no haggle" internet dealers. They are creating a more efficient market in new cars. I'll bet they get shunned at car-dealer conventions, though.
Just my opinion, I don't work for them.
-juice
I'm thinking of buying through Autoland, since I'll probably finance through the credit union. I hate dickering with the dealers - I usually end up losing my temper. Maybe dealers have changed in the last 2 years, but the last time I talked money at a dealership I got really frustrated. I might be just a middle-aged woman, but I do have a brain, and these particular sales people kept presenting really outrageous offers as though I wouldn't see them for what they were. Since I had such a lousy experience the last time, I'm really dreading getting down to talking money.
I know I don't need 2 Wranglers, but I really like that bright green Unlimited in a soft top (I have a hard top Sport and no garage to store the hard top in). There are days I'd love to be up in the mountains with the top down. The noise of the Sport doesn't bother me and the Unlimited is significantly quieter (though not as quiet as the Forester). The longer wheelbase of the Unlimited makes the steering less squirrelly to me - more car-like. The suspension is less bouncy than the Sport.
The Forester has that huge moon-roof - not quite as good as a top-down Wrangler, but some of the same sensation. And while the cost per miles of fuel isn't much different, the Forester XT would be a bit cheaper (the mpg/premium fuel cost is a bit less than the mpg/regular fuel cost of the Unlimited). For most people the difference wouldn't mean much over a year's time, but it does mount up after a while.
I think I've analyzed this thing down to the nth degree. Maybe these staples in my blue jeans will just keep me up on that fence forever and in a year I'll still be here driving my 6 year old beloved Wrangler Sport, and analyzing all the new vehicles that will come out next year. Or else I'll walk into a dealership some day and point to something I know nothing about and say "I'll take it."
The car dealer should be able to handle that paperwork for you. That's part of what they do for a living. E-mail fitzmall and ask them.
Off-topic: This reminds me of the old days when I lived in DC, bought a used Volvo in Virginia and registered it in Texas. I drove it for years, and the car never went to Texas. Every year, for about $20, my hometown Texas county sent me a whole new set of license plates with a new number on them. This gave me a clean slate once a year in DC's unforgiving parking-ticket database.
I drove my Outback 3,000 miles home so it shouldn't be any big deal for Mtngal to do that too.
Maybe if we tell her about the Subaru wave, it'll get Mtngal off the fence?
Steve, Host
My hubby is has given me orders - get off the fence and buy a car. Of course, he won't tell me what HE really wants - he's leaving it all up to me. And I'm less and less able to make up my mind between the two (I admit, I did notice that Edmunds has the 2005 JGC prices posted. Sigh...).
The Subie will get the job done without much compromise, and is very nice. The Unlimited will also get the job done and it is nice in a totally different way.
Maybe I should go back to my original plan - drive the Sport for 3 weeks straight as a daily driver then make a decision. The only real reason for buying something right now (as in this month) is the $1,000 cash back on the Unlimited, which may or may not continue next month.
To be continued...