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Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Plus you look like an absolute genius now with gas prices spiking.

    -juice
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    mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    And now that $2000 I saved by not buying the Subaru is really getting eaten up by the added fuel cost of a vehicle that gets 18-19 mpg going downhill with a tailwind!
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    18-19mpg from a Subaru? V6? I hope.... :confuse:
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    kev_xt_ownerkev_xt_owner Member Posts: 41
    No, the $2000 she said she saved was from NOT buying a Subaru. I think she owns a Jeep Wrangler. Click on her username to check out her vehicles and previous posts.
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    mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Right on the Wrangler - we ended up buying a soft top '04 Unlimited almost 1 year ago (September 15th). It wasn't our first choice, and is certainly less practical for us than one of the Subies, but it's fun to have a convertible, and I like off-roading. So I went with emotion and saved the money initially. I don't regret it (the Wrangler has been an excellent vehicle in many ways and problem-free for 55,000 miles so far), but the cost of gas is starting to really hurt.

    I wouldn't suggest a Wrangler for most people - you have to give up quite a bit when you get one. Those of us who, for some unknown reason, develop a love for these little, impractical vehicles just can't give them up.
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    knotknot Member Posts: 9
    Ok well maybe not so much the theories but I drive a Sub. I decided on the Jeep diesel because of the great mpg. I didn't realize the price of diesel is greater than premium fuel! It appears the price just offset the great mpg near the gas model. It almost feels like a penalty for good gas mileage. Now I'm stuck again trying to decide while I'm getting less than 10 in my Sub. Glad you started this thread.

    I haven't seen any of the vehicles - just been reading. One thing I like about my Sub is I can lay down in the back. I often like to sleep under the stars - living in the northwest. I also off road every weekend since I practically live in it (off road trails).

    So I'm looking for an off road worthy vehicle that I can sleep in (I'm only 5'-7") that get's good mileage. Any suggestions?
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Here the price is diesel is 30-40 cents less than regular. Go figure!
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sub = Suburban in this case, I suppose? Not Subaru?

    Just clarifying.

    Diesel costs less here right now as well, a good 30-50 cents less. But this is temporary. Long-term, diesel around here usually costs about the same as premium.

    -juice
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Not around here. Long term it's quite a bit less than regular.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think on a national average it cost 7 cents more per gallon, and keep in mind the low-sulfur diesel will bring prices a little higher because it needs more refining.

    Of course with gas price spikes, that info is outdated. Question is, where will gas prices settle long-term?

    -juice
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    knotknot Member Posts: 9
    Know any Subarus that get "less than 10?" Yes, it's a Suburban
    Regular gas is $2.59 and diesel is $3.01 - was 3.15
    Does anyone have a suggestion for me (below)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------
    "I haven't seen any of the vehicles - just been reading. One thing I like about my Sub is I can lay down in the back. I often like to sleep under the stars - living in the northwest. I also off road every weekend since I practically live in it (off road trails).

    So I'm looking for an off road worthy vehicle that I can sleep in (I'm only 5'-7") that get's good mileage. Any suggestions?"
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------------------------------------
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just look for a wagon with fold-flat seats and toss in an inflatable mattress to fill in the gaps and make it more comfy. I imagine even many compact wagons could do that, perhaps even a Focus.

    -juice
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    knotknot Member Posts: 9
    But a Focus or a wagon is not "off road worthy"
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just get some skid plates and...

    Just kidding. Missed that part.

    -juice
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    knotknot Member Posts: 9
    hehe, well this is an SUV thread! However, I don't believe all are "off road worthy".
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    the Xterra? it is offroad worthy... :)
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    The seats fold flat in an Escape Hybrid, it's fuel efficient, does fairly well off road, and the battery under the cargo floor will keep you all nice and toasty during cold nights. ;)
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    mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Has Jeep changed the Liberty's seats so they fold flat now? That was one of my biggest complaints about it when it first came out. Other than that, it certainly is off-road worthy. Or they could get an Unlimited and take the back seat out - it amazes me how much stuff you can pack in the back of one of those things.
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    knotknot Member Posts: 9
    thanks. The xterra does not get the mpg. I'm not sure if the Escape Hybrid has a hi/low range but it sure looks good on paper. So it looks like the Jeep or the Hybrid are my two choices. The Jeep's torque sure sounds great though. Next I'll visit the showrooms. *edit - the Liberty's seats don't fold flat?
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The Jeep has great torque. I rented the Jeep for a week. The issue was the dismal gas mileage and the fact I felt it had to really work to go 70 or 75.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you like diesels check that out. Though CR reported not-so-good mileage even with the diesel.

    Torque is good, and range + mileage are better than with the gas V6.

    Thing about a low range is it almost guarantees less mileage.

    Just thought of one possible exception - the brand new Suzuki Grand Vitara. It still has a low range yet fuel efficiency is pretty decent. It's not overly powerful but it might just do the trick. 7/100 warranty also.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Just thought of one possible exception - the brand new Suzuki Grand Vitara. It still has a low range yet fuel efficiency is pretty decent. It's not overly powerful but it might just do the trick. 7/100 warranty also.

    Speaking of which... Can we include the all-new '06 Suzuki Grand Vitara in this discussion? Perhaps include it in the thread title too? This vehicle has just been completely redesigned, and is much improved. I think many will now cross-shop it with the others listed here. much more so than with the old GV.

    For those not familiar with the just-announced all-new Grand Vitara, here's a 2-page link:

    http://www.japanesecarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050907.005

    Note that page 2 (spec page) shows info on non-US-spec models. We only get the 4-door, and the only engine choice here is the 185 HP 2.7L V6, with either a 5-speed manual or 5-speed automatic. We also get a choice of 2WD, full-time 4WD (AWD), or 4-Mode 4WD (full-time 4WD, 4Hi lock, 4Lo lock, and Neutral). The 4-Mode 4WD is only available with automatic, and on the top two trim levels.

    The new GV is a really nice blend of the Liberty (truly off-road capable) and the cute utes (AWD. fully independent suspension, unibody w/welded frame). ABS and stability control are standard on all models.

    Here's the link from Suzuki's web site:

    http://www.06grandvitara.com/

    Bob
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    knotknot Member Posts: 9
    I don't expect to get good mileage while in low range off road - just in hwy/city. The Suzuki looks like it's car based. It's rated at 18mpg city.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I wonder if this qualifies for the longest title around here? Sorry Tribute fans, you'll have to tag along with the Escape owners for the time being; six is the software limit.

    For GV talk only, there's the Suzuki Grand Vitara discussion, complete with a recent hybrid rumor link:

    steve_, "Suzuki Grand Vitara" #435, 6 Sep 2005 11:38 pm

    Steve, Host
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Low range is strictly for difficult off-road or deep snow driving. It's rarely used, so low-range gas mileage really shouldn't be much of a factor.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Seems like it has a unibody as well as a frame, an innovative approach.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    There's also this GV link too over in Future Models:

    rsholland, "2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara" #1, 16 May 2005 10:24 am

    Bob
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Bob,

    Probably not - there's only space for 6 models in the categories list so the quotes and ratings links for the Vitara couldn't be displayed.

    tidester, host
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The body/frame combo is similar to that used by the Honda Ridgeline, Pilot, Liberty, Grand Cherokee, and others. It's basically a unibody with an extra frame welded to it for added strength. It's the best of both worlds, light and strong.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Steve already took care of that. :)

    Bob
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I swear I didn't see that in Future Vehicles when I searched; thanks!

    Tides, check my note about dumping on the Tribute fans ....;)

    Steve, Host
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    ... bumping the Tribute is also an option! :)

    tidester, host
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    knotknot Member Posts: 9
    I agree. I've been "off-roading" for many years. I use low range practically every weekend in difficult terrain. Getting there with good MPG is important to me though. I wonder how the Escape Hybrid would perform starting on a steep muddy or rocky/rutted incline with only the electric motors engaged.

    *edit - Does the Tribute get more that 17 city? An old Toyota 4runner gets 17. If it's not at least close to 20 then I might as well get a 4runner because I can lay down in back. * edit. I just looked at the Tribute pics and it looks car based. I don't see how that can be off-road worthy. However, looks can be deceiving I guess. Maybe I have a misconception about SUVs. I come from a long list of owning 4x4 trucks and 4runner/suburban - that I literally bash off road. These SUVs must be able to take a beating. I don't mean I get airborne but I do take my vehicles into extreme terrain and I do it very often.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've driven a couple, and I like it a lot. Neither one that I drove had the 4-Mode 4WD, but they did have AWD. The ride is a bit rougher than the Forester, but it's a HUGE improvement over the old GV.

    If you put a priority on ride and handling, then the Forester is the better choice—but not by as much as you might think... If on the other hand, you do go off-road and want a good handling small UTE, this appears to be an excellent new entry. Think "industrial-strength CRV," and you have a pretty good idea of what the new GV is about. It's rated to tow 3000 pounds, and the roof rack is rated for 165 pounds. Not too shabby IMO.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not that I've tried, but look under the rear axle, you have lower arms in the suspension that dip down well below the rear differential and could get tangled up on rocks or other obstacles when off road. It's not a very "clean" undercarriage, in other words.

    I still recommend a truck with a true frame, but if you insist on a car-based model check out how clean the under side of the Forester is.

    -juice
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Note that there are no suspension bits sticking down to get caught on anything. I have a factory rear differential protector and recommend that.

    paisan (he's on these boards) makes a front skid plate that fits the Forester, and other places sell them as well. While Subies aren't known for off roading, they are known for rallies and that's why skid plates are widely available.

    The low part you see in that photo is the front cross member. It's stiff enough that I've used it as a jacking point. So nothing there will break. The skid plate connects the front of that to the body just under the radiator, so you are very well protected.

    -juice
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    knotknot Member Posts: 9
    I'm not sure who you are speaking to but I do not "insist on a car based model" - in fact, that is exactly what I don't want. I'm not sure which are truck based. I think my choices are the Jeep diesel and I thought the Ford Hybrid - but if you say the suspension hangs below the differential, That's not good. I put a lot of importance on mpg, able to lay down in back, and off road worthy. It appears as though they haven't made one to suit my needs - yet.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    They also mention a larger 3.6L V6 to go in another new SUV, most likely the XL7 replacement.

    http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103115

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But since you want a frame I'd shop Grand Vitara, Liberty, and XTerra, probably.

    I do not think the Ford is ideal for you. C&D got one hung up on their off road excursion of SUVs of various sizes, I recall their Navigator helped pull it out. Look underneath, the lower control arms on the rear axle extend downward from the middle towards the outside. That plus there are no skid plates.

    Walk up next to one, from behind, and just take a peek at the underside, they are clearly visible. You'll see what I mean.

    GV may just be the best for you, it's the most fuel efficient of the trucks with a low range.

    -juice
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    suvshopper4suvshopper4 Member Posts: 1,110
    Can Suzuki's quality / durability be trusted?
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    mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I thought that the idea of the 4-mode sounded neat, but wonder why they only have it on the top models. I'm not sure I would feel right putting an expensive vehicle in a place I would need 4-low (I've only done that once with the Unlimited, while the Sport is quite familiar with it).

    Another thought (regardless of the clearance issue) I had about off-roading a hybrid has to do with its new technology. I sure would hate to be driving out in the boonies, miles from a tow truck or qualified mechanic and have something go wrong. As time goes on and more people learn how to fix them (and they make improvements as issues come up), then I might feel more comfortable off-roading one, but not at the moment.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I too am not happy that Suzuki decided to include the 4-Mode 4WD only on their two top trim models. I think that's a bad marketing move. The good news is their top trim models should still be pretty inexpensive, especially when you consider all the standard content. I'd be very surprised if even their most expensive model exceeds $25K. I'm sure it will be well under a loaded Jeep Liberty (one with their optional full-time Select Trac 4WD), which is the only other vehicle in this thread title that offers any true off-road capbility.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=107099
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    mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Interesting article. Are they selling them yet? I saw a GV on the road yesterday that looked really nice. I thought that it was different than what I had remembered, but it could have been it's unusual color. My first thought was that it looked really nice.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yes, they are starting to "trickle" into dealers. The one's I've seen so far have not been equipped with the 4-Mode 4WD, but rather the high-range AWD. The reason being they were the two lower trim levels in which 4-Mode 4WD isn't available.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pretty good point about being in the boonies with a new technology. A few Prius have had issues and when they do you're stuck. Full hybrids cannot run on the gas engine alone (unlike the HCH "mild hybrid").

    Suzuki is hit or miss, though the ones that miss are mostly rebadged Daewoos.

    The warranty is great. I think Suzuki is tiny and had trouble getting attention, so even with a good product they'll soon have deep, deep discounts. That might make a well equipped GV a screaming bargain. Don't Zooks come with GM Employee Pricing?

    Though that is supposed to end at the end of the month, and they won't have rebates in place yet.

    Still...

    -juice
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    knotknot Member Posts: 9
    I gave it a lot of thought. I think I will buy a used Toyota 4runner and 10-15 thousand dollars worth of gas that I saved from not buying a new vehicle.

    "With so many new sport-utilities coming out, it's easy to overlook the Toyota 4Runner. But that could be a mistake because the 4Runner has a lot to offer. Everything is easy to operate. There's enough room in back for a ton of gear and it's flat enough for sleeping. The luxurious Limited model comes with comfortable seats swathed in leather. And the optional V6 engine delivers snappy acceleration performance".
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I'v read two or three "first drives" on this thing so far and not one of them mentioned where this thing came from. Anyone know if this is just another rebadged Saturn VUE? It sure looks a lot like it, inside and out, and the Nox if you ask me.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    No, it has nothing to do with the Saturn Vue. It's 100% a Suzuki-only product.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They're a bit pricey, that's not a typo by the way. :P

    But they are very nice and resale is strong. That could be bad if you are shopping used, they still cost a lot.

    It's also bigger than any of the others in this thread.

    -juice
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