Just read previous post. I was just thinking that 5-6000 lbs. is hardly light duty towing. Light duty towing is with a Highlander or towing a jet ski or two. I also keep coming back to my point that if I was towing over 6000 lbs. I would not tow with either the Sequoia or Yukon. I would use a heavy duty truck that is more suited than SUV's. I have still not seen any logical reason why the Yukon has such a high tow rating compared to the Sequoia. Similar engine torque, curb weight, axle ratios, rear suspension setup, wheelbase. I have to believe there is some marketing or something at work here. Toyota's image is smooth durability while GMC is "like a rock". Would't you want a higher towing capacity with all of those tough truck ads?
First of all, I'm not a Seq owner, not yet. I've been towing for over 30 years, which is at least 10 years more than your claim. Still, I wouldn't dare to call myself an expert. Please note that the 6,000lbs gross weight that this man tows include the extras like you said: 'coolers full of food and beer'. I did check if he knew what he was talking about. One reason some towing experts recommend 80% of factory limit is due to these extras.
Regarding my 'silly blinded view', it’s base on facts from a Seq OWNER with REAL experience. Please try towing with a Seq before you do more of your Seq bashing.
I would agree that a pickup would be a likely choice for such towing and a fifth wheel setup for anything approaching 10000 lbs. I would not want to regularly tow over 6000 lbs with a suburban and know others who have purchased a 5th wheel pickup just for this reason.
Can we please move off this never ending boring subject. There is a "tow" forum should we want to become experts as our kind host has reminded us over and over again. Granted some of this info is helpful but talk about dragging something on and on. Please take it off line. Many of us on this forum have legitimate questions and require comments from other Seq owners that would really help us out. Quite irritating when you post something legitimate and then it gets buried because of these @#$%@ towing comments... Ok, I feel better. Now please check my earlier post I put up late yesterday (14th) that was the victim of being buried by the "tow".
I am looking at the same 2 vehicles that you are. But am definitely leaning towards the Sequoia. Would love to hear your opinions and experience so far.
Here is my opinion on new vs. demo. The purchase of a vehicle in this price range was very new to me. I never paid more than $22K for any new car. That being a '93 Ford Van. I would stick with getting the car you want, color, options, etc. The small discount you would get for a demo can't be made up, when a year later you wish you had bought the silver instead of the black. I would be reluctant to purchase a "used" vehicle for $40K. In summary chose the vehicle you want, negotiate the price that is fair.
Picked up my new 2002 Sequoia SR5 on Saturday. Bought it from a dealer 140 miles from home because i got a great, great deal, was worth the trip. The allowed me to spend a good 2.5 hours with the car from the start. what a great car. For those who want info on lease, i leased it for 4 years/60,000 miles. money factor was .00225, residual value was 47%. fyi this is about 5% lower than the 2001's were going out at for 4 years. If you're looking at 3 years, I would have to guess that the residual value was lowered on those as well. probably figure 55%, since the 2001's were at 60%. Banks are starting to get smart and not get burned at the end of the lease.
I would much rather have the one with only 400 miles on it, than one with 5,000 miles. build the extras you want into the monthly payments, it would not effect it that much. who knows how the truck was driven during the 5,000 miles.
Points well taken. I'd refrain from posting more comments about towing, unless I see more misleading statements. My original intention was to thank a few people like Cliffy, who helpe me with my buying decision.
My husband just returned from a local Toyota dealership where he was trying to get a general idea of lease rates for a 2WD SR5 Sequoia. He did not get any firm numbers but the salesperson mentioned that they only "do" 48-month leases. Why would anyone lease a car for 48 months when it is only covered under warranty for 36 months? Is this the norm for the dealer to only be talking in terms of 48 month leases?
Quick observations on subtle differences: the steering wheel is slightly thinner on the 2002, the alignment is very different in that the 2002 steering feels heavier and seems to wander less, and the 2002 feels "tighter" and there are less noises (although the 2001 was hardly full of squeaks and rattles!). For Canadian customers, the SR5 option B package now includes a sunroof and fog lamps (neither on the 2001). I wonder what other unadvertised mechanical or engineering changes they made?
You don't have to lease through a dealer. I would contact your credit union, your bank, and other financial institutions to compare rates and terms. I guess you didn't read my last post because I would NOT discuss the lease terms with a dealer until you have negotiated the price of the truck and to do that I would use the internet. But that is me.
Since the subject of towing we are talking about is specific to the Sequoia its as relevant here as any other category focused on the Sequoia.
714cut: There is a clear difference in suspension setups on the Sequoia vs the Tahoe. The light duty payload is why the Sequoia has a lighter tow rating. The Ford and GM vehicles have tow capacities proportional to the strength of the rear suspension (in addition to hp, torque and rear ratios). The Tahoe provides more hp and torque while the Sequoia has less with greater weight. It should be no surprise the Tahoe has a 1700lb greater tow capacity.
luvsuv: I'm glad you haven't called yourself an expert in towing with 30 years experience. Neither have I and in fact I suggested others speak to a dealer or read up on the subject of towing.
Unfortunately your "thirty years" of towing experience have left you providing what many would consider poor advice by suggesting you can comfortably tow within 200lbs of the Sequoia's max tow rating. Do a little homework and I think you'll find that no expert would make such a recommendation. You'll find no bashing on my part of the Sequoia, just a balanced sharing of the facts which seems abit lacking in your post.
gpm5: In response to your view that you should use a fifth wheel when towing more than 60o0lbs, I have owned 2 -3/4 ton Subs that were set-up for 10,000lbs and routinely towed 8000lbs comfortably. The new 3/4 ton Subs are now up to 12,000lbs and are routinely used for towing race car trailers, large boats and larger campers upto to 10,000lbs without difficulty. A fifth wheel is nice but inconvenient in many circumstances and not nearly as flexible as an SUV.
minuteman26: Why not try and check out fullsize suv sales for Toyota, Ford and GM. Toyota is a far distant third after GM and Ford?
saw your post on 14th about buying a demo, WHY? do you know what people do to the demo? especially watch how dealer drive the demo, you will know.
everywhere is offering at least $3500 off MSRP for the 2002 model now. and if you like the silver, just buy the SR5 (they look exactly the same as the limited, except the limited label) and pick the options you want from the limited (you can order one and get the same deal) i'm sure it will save you more than another $2000, which make up your $5000 off the that silly demo. wood trim costs $700 is a scandal. also if you can afford to buy a 4wd limited, why don't you go for a landcrusier, they now offer $10000 off MSRP for 2002. i'm in palo alto area in CA, if silicon valley dealer can do that, i bet everybody can.... didn't mean to make people who paid more to feel bad, my sequoia didn't get the same good deal as well, not even have the keyless entry, as no one offer me any solution from this board, they all busy defending themselves
one wave is hot enough, can't believe there is more than 2 people using this silly name...
Any idea who is offering $10k off MSRP for '02 Landcruiser in Silicon Valley? I am in the market of a '02 Sequoia. I agree with you that it is a better buy for a LC at $10k off.
i noticed this ad on 01 landcruiser in walnut greek first. today when i test drove the 02 landcruiser at mountain view toyota (this is not the proper name of the dealer, but it's in san antoney rd )i said the landcrusier is too expensive, then the dealer told me what if he can put down the price closed to the sequoia? then he said last time i sold it at $900 off MSRP, i said it's possible to do it $10000? he said yes, but you need to buy what he has, which is a river rock green with Nav. BUT IT"S NOT A DEMO. i guess if you push harder, they will probably give you more. just ask for eric, tell him kenny sent you. if you final got that deal, can you do me favor? ask him to give me a good deal on installing keyless entry like what price it should be on the option $250 instead of $400. the only time you can ask deal from the dealer is when you still haven't bought the vehicle, i lost that already.........
I wasn't going to irritate people to keep talking about towing (one of us did get the hint), unless there are misleading statements. The towing limit for a Seq 2x is 6,500lbs. My neighbor tows 6,000lbs without problems. I did not 'recommend towing within 200lbs', certainly not for a GM. Others have pointed out that Toyota tends to be conservative with their recommended limits.
Please stop the misleading statements. This has been a typical pattern of your posts. Nevertheless, I know you do get off on irritating people who don't agree with your evangelical views about GM.
I have just purchased a Limited and traded in my 2000 ML430. The only thing I will miss about the 430 is the Nav System. Has anyone installed one. Info please
Good morning! I like the change of topic... The fact that there are more Ford deathtrap SUVs sold than Toyotas proves that there's a sucker born every minute. Raw quantity means nothing to a discriminating buyer. The subtlety in my post was that buyers seem to be "waking up". If you have a source for SUV sales I would appreciate your posting it so we can all see the rate of change for the different makes. You seem to have moderated your tone on Sequoias, for which I and the other members are grateful. You seem to enjoy flaming, which most of the rest of us do not. If you could avoid the harsh tones in your posts, you might attract other interest besides morbid fascination.
As I said, someone I know has a SUB (and has owned several) and bought a dedicated pickup (with a 5th wheel) for towing 10,000 lbs. Heatwave, you may feel comfortable towing 8000-10000 lbs with your SUB, but others do not. Anyways, we are talking about a Sequoia comparison here to the Tahoe, and someone with the Tahoe would similarly likely want to buy a pickup for towing the 8000-10000 lbs. A SUB with a 3/4 ton suspension is also like going to be very stiff for around town driving.
Offroad: Seq 10.6" ground clearance ----Tahoe 8.4" ground clearance Seq 27 deg approach angle/ 19 deg departure angle ---Tahoe none give (listed as N/A) i.e. this is not an offroad truck?
Onroad vehicle stability Seq. VSC standard on 4WD ---Tahoe Not available
NOTE: VSC was shown to prevent rollover in the Mercedes SUV
"Why not try and check out fullsize suv sales for Toyota, Ford and GM. Toyota is a far distant third after GM and Ford?"
Are they on third already? That's not too bad for an SUV that's only been in production for about a year. If Toyota, Honda and Nissan ever decide to aggresively pursue the Full Size SUV market I would not be surprise if they become the leaders in sales. Take a look at the press release from Honda for the mid-size, small car and luxury car sales figures. Honda and Toyota are among the leaders. I want to see competition in this segment of the market this will only benefit us consumers with better products.
to answer your question as to why anyone would lease for 48 months has to do with making the monthly payment a little easier to deal with. as far as warranty goes, you can extend the bumper to bumper out to 48 months. I negotiated that down to an additional $5 a month on my lease payment. to me that is not cost prohibitive and will worth it. If you look at post 3972, i listed the residual value and money factor i was able to get on a 48 month lease (although mine is for a 4WD SR5). Also, just like nighter50 stated in post 3978, never reveal your cards before the game is up. always, always negotiate a price first then tell them how you will pay for it. if they ask beforehand, just tell them you haven't decided, maybe you'll pay all cash. that always gets them excited.
I want to thank everyone for answering my questions about leasing a Sequoia. And, yes, Steve, the towing discussion is still fascinating (to some anyway, I hope!)
There are a few leasing issues which are confusing to me. I know that you are supposed to negotiate the price of the car and then tell them you will lease after you've come to an agreement on price. My husband has been through lease negotiations before and he thinks it's very confusing to do the deal this way for some reason. For instance, if you negotiate the price on a Sequoia down to $34,000, and then say that you want to lease, will the dealer have to determine the money factor and residual value off of that $34,000 figure? It seems that they are only leasing in terms of MSRP. Also, are the money factor and residual value figures negotiable? Then how exactly do you negotiate a lease? Also, nighter50, I think you mentioned that I try to do the leasing through a bank. Is this better than going through Toyota Financing. Is it more difficult to turn the car in at the end of the lease? Also, we were hoping to possibly terminate the lease on our Camry 5 months early, so it "seems" as if going with financing through the dealer would allow us to do so. Maybe we are better off waiting until the actual termination date of the lease. Thanks for bearing with me as I try to sort through the leasing maze!
While waiting for Sequoia specific messages here, you can also check out the Advice link at the bottom of the page for lots of leasing articles or head over to the Finance/Warranty/Insurance Board where there are several discussions that go into leasing in great detail. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
raybear: do you mean $10000 off MSRP? and i don't think it is hard to find one. (may be not the ideal colour you want)when i called walnut greek last week, they still have more than one 01 available including the pearl silver. when i visited mountain view toyota yesterday, the 02 river rock green was standing in front of me. as i always believe dealer won't loss any money by selling a vehicle to you, they either break even or make less. so if they can do that on a 02 model, everyone can do that. i am sure toyota must have given them big dicount as well. sounds like they will either redesign the landcruiser or not have it sold on N. america at all in the near future.
The 2001 has a $3000 factory-to-dealer incentive. Getting one for $1000 off invoice would not impress me. Of course, your dealer may think otherwise.
The 2002 has no incentives as yet, so they should sell for about $2000 off MSRP in the Bay Area, and as little as $1000 over invoice in Southern California.
I am certainly not an expert on leasing but others have given me advice that has really helped and I know how confusing leasing can be. For starters the money factor is basically what the financial institution is charging you for the use of their money (like an interest rate). To calculate the money factor to an interest rate just multiply the money factor by 2400 i.e., MF of .003 is about 7.2%. The money factor is normally determined by the bank/dealer and does not change based on the price you pay or the MSRP (they can change monthly based on current interest rates). The residual values are also not typically negotiable and are set by the bank/dealer and vary by the term of the lease (in months). So really the only way to negotiate a good lease is to negotiate the price you are paying for the car and to find the bank/financial institution with the best money factor (lowest) and residual value (highest). To see how all this works go to http://members.aol.com/kjsoftware/share02.htm and download the Car Lease Calculator. Then you can plug in the MSRP, Negotiated Price, Capitalized Cost Reduction (downpayment+driveoff), money factor, lease length, and residual value to see what payments would be in various circumstances. You can also go to http://www.leasecompare.com/# and click the "Get Quotes - Go" button. Then put in the model, make, year,etc and you will get the money factor, residuals and payments for 5 different lenders. Call your bank or financial institutions (credit unions sometimes have good money factors) and ask them the residual and money factor for such and such a car. They will give you this info over the phone. Toyota has standard money factors. Post the question to the lease guy in the "Ask Lease Questions" forum here at Edmunds he usually knows the current money factor for Toyota. Read and learn as much as possible about leasing on the internet. Read the Leasing info here on the Edmunds site. As far as your current lease, I would call the financial institution that holds the lease and ask for your payoff. Then you will know how much it will be to get out of the lease. Then go to www.kbb.com and find out how much your car is worth. You may owe more than the car is worth (aka, upside down)or you make actually have equity in your car. Either way you could sell the car yourself or trade it in on a new one. Without knowing payoff and the current value how can you get a good deal? I am sure that others here know more than I do and can provide more advice but this should get you started. Perhaps you have done all of this already and if so I am sorry for the long post but perhaps it can help someone else.
Thanks to all of you on advice for either buying an '01 demo with 5.5k miles or a '01 with 400 miles. The trend was certainly on going for the one with lower miles which I agree with completely.
The advice on perhaps going with an '02 sounded quite appealing so I approached a dealer today and they offered me on the spot 4k under MSRP which is 1.6k more than an '01. Considering the depreciation factor (which is about 5% for a Toyoto compared to 8-10 % for GM), is the 1.5k difference worth getting the '02 Seq. Would love to hear your expertise comments on this. Also those with '02, any real difference outside of the steering that was mentioned before.
Thanks in advance for your comments and can't wait to post on here which Seq I got...
Hey, what's wrong with your team? I guess they're really missing Saku Koivu? Anyways, there is really no major difference between 01 and 02 other than you can be sure some of those "first year of new model" issues have been addressed. For $1600 I'd go with the '02. I'm sure you'd get that back on the resale end.
I've ordered a 2002 Sequoia Ltd 4WD. It is supposed to arrive at the dealership on 11/19/01. My question is what are the major things to check on the vehicle before and during the final test drive before I sign the final papers? Any reasonable help with this would be appreciated. I ask because after reading the majority of the posts, several problems have been mentioned that probably should be checked out before the final purchase. Thanks for the info.
Just got our White SR5 in October and LOVE it. Our family of 4(2 kids, 5 & 10)fits beautifully inside the roomy interior without the minivan look and we also have comfort knowing we will get many years of use out of it since it is a TOYOTA.
After studying the owners manual, I couldn't find a reason to have a seperate key designated as a Valet key. Our glovebox has no locking mechanism and we do not have a trunk-so what is the difference between the black key and the grey one?
Also, still getting use to the air system and while having the air conditioning on, I have had heat coming out of the vent located over the rear passenger wheel well in front of the 3rd seat. Anyone else have this? Am I doing something wrong? If I could get some feedback, I would know if I was doing something wrong or if a call to the service dept. was in order.
We purchased the white SR5 with Oak leather interior and find that it is sooo sharp. Very pleased with the purchase from Tuscaloosa Toyota-Harold Guy. Was best car buying experience yet.
luvsuv: Your original claim of your neighbor's Sequoia did not reference that it was a 2x or a 4x. The 4x tow capacity is 6200lbs, therefore my remark regarding a 200lb comfort zone was based on a 4x model. Given your claim that the neighbor has a 2x, the cushion is 500lbs. IMO and others, this is still not a comfortable cushion.
I've provided no misleading claims, only the sharing of data and personal opinions that may or may not fit some of the views of others on this forum. BTW, would you like to share any source for the view that "Others have pointed out that Toyota tends to be conservative with their recommended limits." Or is this simply wishful thinking that might lead others to overload trailers towed by a Sequoia just so you can feel better about the difference in tow capacities versus other tow vehicles?
The only misleading statements shared on the subject of towing appear to be from those portraying my views as evangelical for any manufacturing as I've clearly stated the Sequoia is a solid vehicle and my loyalties are to the manufacturer making the best vehicle for my needs at any given point in time.
minuteman26: please share any response I have provided on any issue that you consider a flame. I have no interest in flaming anyone and I have been consistent in all my remarks from the start in response to questions on towing. I can't be responsible if the facts or experiences I have shared have somehow deflated someone's perception of the capabilities of the vehicle they bought. If that's a flame, its in their own minds only and not in my intentions.
Please note that the tone of my posts are generally proportional to the tone of the post I am responding to. If the dialogue is a positive exchange of information, it will be engaged in the same manner. If the post I am responding to is communicated with an "edge" it will be responded in kind. This forum has not been recognized for any "civility awards" for its ability to openly communicate with non-Sequoia owners that are sharing information contradicting sometimes inflated views.
gpm5: Let's stick to the facts. The 3/4 ton Subs are comfortably rated for the tow experiences I posted and are used for heavy towing purposes by hundreds of thousands of owners towing large boats (myself included), campers and other heavy recreational trailers and have done so for decades.
I agree with your assessment that the leaf springs of the previous 3/4 ton Subs left their owners longing for a more comfortable everyday vehicle as those leaf springs stiffened with time, although the new 3/4 ton's are significantly improved. (In fact that was one of the reasons I moved from a 3/4 ton Sub to a Denali XL which is on a 1/2 ton chassis).
aix91: Toyota would have been third in the running for sales of Full-size SUVs if they had sold only one Sequoia simply because GM, Ford and Toyota are the only players in town. In many respects I am thankful for Toyota's entry because it forces GM and Ford to make better products instead of simply offering a truck with a large cab. I hope Toyota comes out with further improvements to the Sequoia and heavier duty suspensions to keep GM and Ford improving. If GM and Ford don't continue their progress, my next SUV could very well be a Sequoia or some future version...maybe a Sequoia XL:)
I used to be able to access AI Automobile Industrustries website for month-to-month automotive model sales. Unfortunately, the statistics have been taken off-line to the public and made into a subscription service. In the Spring of this year the Sequoia had a single digit marketshare when compared to GM F/S SUVS and a low single digit marketshare % when compared to GM and Ford combined.
The following site has some information on sales through July '01 showing the GM F/S SUVs are up almost 34.8% over last year. Total Toyota sales were up 5.8% mainly due to the Sequoia, Highlander and RAV4. Ford's Expedition sales were down -16.4%. Excursion sales were down almost 40%.
Feel free to review the site below, however if anyone has been able to track down a site with more current or specific sales statistics by model, I would be very interested in the info.
I would get the '02. Even a new '01 is now a year old 'used' car with the resulting depreciation. I have an early '02 SR5 4WD, differences from the '01 that I know of: improved steering and stability; customer programmable door locks; revised anti-slip program to reduce tendency to 'stall' when accelerating with one wheel on gravel, dirt, sand, etc.; factory installed fog lights available on the SR5. There may be more but I don't know what they are.
bigtoyfan: Other than the obvious major things to check, I also believe it's the little things that should be checked also. Start in the drivers seat and go clockwise all around the interior(hey, the clocks too low!). Push every button(where's the fog light switch?), move every lever, open any and all bins(the jack is where?). This way you know if everything works or not.
jazztransplant: Do you have the auto. climate control? One reason I can think of getting warm air is that the rear climate control is set too high or the outside ambient temp is low. Even with the A/C switch on it doesn't nessesarily mean you're going to get chilled air. The climate computer determines whether you get heat or cold. Turning on the A/C switch in the winter also gets you dehumidified (but warm) air. Again with everything on auto. the computer determines which vent to use as well. I must say it works well. It's neat to watch the display first direct air to the lower vents then both then finally the upper vents only as the car/weather heats up with our current weather. Valet key? I think mine's in some drawer somewhere-lost.
Awhile back there was a post indicating that in '03 there was going to be a lexus version of the sequioa called the gx (300hp etc.) - any more info? Also read lc board - they say no lc anymore after '02, only lx470. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks in advance
According to my service manager (and the instruction manual for an 01 Seq):
All keys carry a transponder, and must be programmed before they can be used to start the ignition.
The black key is a "master"... it opens all doors, starts the ignition, AND can be used to program more master or slave keys.
The grey key is a "slave"... it opens all doors, starts the ignition, but CANNOT be used to program additional keys.
Only a limited number (I think 6) of master keys can be programmed... without a master key, no more keys can be programmed, and you would need to replace/reprogram the ignition computer for lots of $$$ if you need more keys.
I was advised to put one master away for safekeeping...
neuss: Thanks for the site. Its got alot of very good data. Based on that site the following info is the sales data for full size SUVs YTD Oct 2001 vs YTD Oct 2000.
Escalade - 24,000 units vs 20,000 units Chevy Sub/Tahoe - 295,000 units vs 232,000 units GMC Yukon/XL/Denali - 121,000 units vs 89,000 units Total GM F/S SUVs = 440,000 units vs 341,000 units GM marketshare of F/S SUVS = 65.3% unit sales up 29% over same period last year
Ford Expedition - 149,000 units vs 184,000 units Ford Excursion - 29,000 units vs 44,000 units Total Ford F/S SUVs = 178,000 units vs 228,000 units Ford marketshare of F/S SUVS = 26.4% unit sales down -22% over same period last year
Toyota Sequoia = 56,000 units Toyota marketshare of F/S SUVs = 8.3% new model with no sales in 2000
Much of the Southern US is subject to Gulf States Toyota Distributors. If you buy a Toyota in this area you pay a $2k to $5K premium for buying a Toyota product. When you buy in this district, you will find an MSRP sticker with a side sticker added by Gulf States that always includes something called a Protection Package and a Extra Milage Package. These packages add something close to $3k to the MSRP. For the $3k you get (maybe) $400 in real stuff. The two SR5's on my local lot each have $5k+ in adds from Gulf States that are worth about $1500. I HATE that! How do these guys get away with it?
Although difficult, it IS possible to buy a Toyota within the Gulf States region without all of their add-ons. We bought our Highlander on the condition that we did not want any GS add-ons. The only GS option we did purchase was a gray leather interior, something that Toyota factory does not offer. Most dealers do like the add-ons for the reason you have mentioned....larger profit. That doesn't mean that you have to accept them. The main problem the potential Sequoia owner faces is that he/she is after a vehicle which is very popular right now which gives the dealer the advantage over the purchaser, and getting one without these add-ons may require an extended waiting period. What about going OUTSIDE the GS area??? Maybe some of the online buyer services or individual dealers can do better for you.....
and nothing changes. Its sad to see that this board has degraded to the same level as most of the truck topics.
Now, for a few comments. I haven't perused all 100+ posting since I left but I did want to comment on a few things that were posted last week.
1. Luvsuv. Thanks for the good words in post #3928.
2. Daylaura. The grinding sound you are hearing probably is from the VSC system. In a hard corner with loose gravel, the VSC will activate to prevent lateral skids. The VSC system uses the ABS actuators which sound like a grinding and clicking noise. It is very normal.
3. Rward99. In post #3931 you asked about 4x2 for towing a boat. I am a fan of 4WD, especially when pulling a boat up a steep or slick ramp. If there is a truck you can get away with 4x2, it is the Sequoia. You may want to read my explanation of the Sequoia drive train which is in the topic "Toyota 4 Wheel Drive Systems Explained" in the SUV conference. The Sequoia does not have limited slip but what it has is far better at finding traction.
Comments
I also keep coming back to my point that if I was towing over 6000 lbs. I would not tow with either the Sequoia or Yukon. I would use a heavy duty truck that is more suited than SUV's.
I have still not seen any logical reason why the Yukon has such a high tow rating compared to the Sequoia. Similar engine torque, curb weight, axle ratios, rear suspension setup, wheelbase.
I have to believe there is some marketing or something at work here. Toyota's image is smooth durability while GMC is "like a rock". Would't you want a higher towing capacity with all of those tough truck ads?
Regarding my 'silly blinded view', it’s base on facts from a Seq OWNER with REAL experience. Please try towing with a Seq before you do more of your Seq bashing.
GM down 7.6%, Ford down 7.5%, Toyota up 7%.
What view is supported here?
Steve
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For Canadian customers, the SR5 option B package now includes a sunroof and fog lamps (neither on the 2001).
I wonder what other unadvertised mechanical or engineering changes they made?
714cut: There is a clear difference in suspension setups on the Sequoia vs the Tahoe. The light duty payload is why the Sequoia has a lighter tow rating. The Ford and GM vehicles have tow capacities proportional to the strength of the rear suspension (in addition to hp, torque and rear ratios). The Tahoe provides more hp and torque while the Sequoia has less with greater weight. It should be no surprise the Tahoe has a 1700lb greater tow capacity.
luvsuv: I'm glad you haven't called yourself an expert in towing with 30 years experience. Neither have I and in fact I suggested others speak to a dealer or read up on the subject of towing.
Unfortunately your "thirty years" of towing experience have left you providing what many would consider poor advice by suggesting you can comfortably tow within 200lbs of the Sequoia's max tow rating. Do a little homework and I think you'll find that no expert would make such a recommendation. You'll find no bashing on my part of the Sequoia, just a balanced sharing of the facts which seems abit lacking in your post.
gpm5: In response to your view that you should use a fifth wheel when towing more than 60o0lbs, I have owned 2 -3/4 ton Subs that were set-up for 10,000lbs and routinely towed 8000lbs comfortably. The new 3/4 ton Subs are now up to 12,000lbs and are routinely used for towing race car trailers, large boats and larger campers upto to 10,000lbs without difficulty. A fifth wheel is nice but inconvenient in many circumstances and not nearly as flexible as an SUV.
minuteman26: Why not try and check out fullsize suv sales for Toyota, Ford and GM. Toyota is a far distant third after GM and Ford?
saw your post on 14th about buying a demo, WHY? do you know what people do to the demo? especially watch how dealer drive the demo, you will know.
everywhere is offering at least $3500 off MSRP for the 2002 model now. and if you like the silver, just buy the SR5 (they look exactly the same as the limited, except the limited label) and pick the options you want from the limited (you can order one and get the same deal) i'm sure it will save you more than another $2000, which make up your $5000 off the that silly demo. wood trim costs $700 is a scandal. also if you can afford to buy a 4wd limited, why don't you go for a landcrusier, they now offer $10000 off MSRP for 2002. i'm in palo alto area in CA, if silicon valley dealer can do that, i bet everybody can.... didn't mean to make people who paid more to feel bad, my sequoia didn't get the same good deal as well, not even have the keyless entry, as no one offer me any solution from this board, they all busy defending themselves
one wave is hot enough, can't believe there is more than 2 people using this silly name...
i guess if you push harder, they will probably give you more. just ask for eric, tell him kenny sent you. if you final got that deal, can you do me favor? ask him to give me a good deal on installing keyless entry like what price it should be on the option $250 instead of $400.
the only time you can ask deal from the dealer is when you still haven't bought the vehicle, i lost that already.........
I wasn't going to irritate people to keep talking about towing (one of us did get the hint), unless there are misleading statements. The towing limit for a Seq 2x is 6,500lbs. My neighbor tows 6,000lbs without problems. I did not 'recommend towing within 200lbs', certainly not for a GM. Others have pointed out that Toyota tends to be conservative with their recommended limits.
Please stop the misleading statements. This has been a typical pattern of your posts. Nevertheless, I know you do get off on irritating people who don't agree with your evangelical views about GM.
ML430. The only thing I will miss about the 430 is the Nav System. Has anyone installed one. Info please
The fact that there are more Ford deathtrap SUVs sold than Toyotas proves that there's a sucker born every minute. Raw quantity means nothing to a discriminating buyer. The subtlety in my post was that buyers seem to be "waking up". If you have a source for SUV sales I would appreciate your posting it so we can all see the rate of change for the different makes.
You seem to have moderated your tone on Sequoias, for which I and the other members are grateful.
You seem to enjoy flaming, which most of the rest of us do not. If you could avoid the harsh tones in your posts, you might attract other interest besides morbid fascination.
Steve
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Seq 27 deg approach angle/ 19 deg departure angle ---Tahoe none give (listed as N/A) i.e. this is not an offroad truck?
Onroad vehicle stability
Seq. VSC standard on 4WD ---Tahoe Not available
NOTE: VSC was shown to prevent rollover in the Mercedes SUV
Others may wish to add their two cents.
Are they on third already? That's not too bad for an SUV that's only been in production for about a year. If Toyota, Honda and Nissan ever decide to aggresively pursue the Full Size SUV market I would not be surprise if they become the leaders in sales. Take a look at the press release from Honda for the mid-size, small car and luxury car sales figures. Honda and Toyota are among the leaders. I want to see competition in this segment of the market this will only benefit us consumers with better products.
http://www.honda2001.com/news/press.html?y=2001&r=707&l=10
It's already starting! Sequoia displaces SUB in Edmunds Large SUV 2002 Most Wanted List. Denali XL is an honorable mention.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/mostwanted/2002/47605/article.html
There are a few leasing issues which are confusing to me. I know that you are supposed to negotiate the price of the car and then tell them you will lease after you've come to an agreement on price. My husband has been through lease negotiations before and he thinks it's very confusing to do the deal this way for some reason. For instance, if you negotiate the price on a Sequoia down to $34,000, and then say that you want to lease, will the dealer have to determine the money factor and residual value off of that $34,000 figure? It seems that they are only leasing in terms of MSRP. Also, are the money factor and residual value figures negotiable? Then how exactly do you negotiate a lease? Also, nighter50, I think you mentioned that I try to do the leasing through a bank. Is this better than going through Toyota Financing. Is it more difficult to turn the car in at the end of the lease? Also, we were hoping to possibly terminate the lease on our Camry 5 months early, so it "seems" as if going with financing through the dealer would allow us to do so. Maybe we are better off waiting until the actual termination date of the lease. Thanks for bearing with me as I try to sort through the leasing maze!
Steve
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raybear: do you mean $10000 off MSRP? and i don't think it is hard to find one. (may be not the ideal colour you want)when i called walnut greek last week, they still have more than one 01 available including the pearl silver. when i visited mountain view toyota yesterday, the 02 river rock green was standing in front of me. as i always believe dealer won't loss any money by selling a vehicle to you, they either break even or make less. so if they can do that on a 02 model, everyone can do that. i am sure toyota must have given them big dicount as well. sounds like they will either redesign the landcruiser or not have it sold on N. america at all in the near future.
The 2002 has no incentives as yet, so they should sell for about $2000 off MSRP in the Bay Area, and as little as $1000 over invoice in Southern California.
The advice on perhaps going with an '02 sounded quite appealing so I approached a dealer today and they offered me on the spot 4k under MSRP which is 1.6k more than an '01. Considering the depreciation factor (which is about 5% for a Toyoto compared to 8-10 % for GM), is the 1.5k difference worth getting the '02 Seq. Would love to hear your expertise comments on this. Also those with '02, any real difference outside of the steering that was mentioned before.
Thanks in advance for your comments and can't wait to post on here which Seq I got...
Anyways, there is really no major difference between 01 and 02 other than you can be sure some of those "first year of new model" issues have been addressed. For $1600 I'd go with the '02. I'm sure you'd get that back on the resale end.
My question is what are the major things to check on the vehicle before and during the final test drive before I sign the final papers? Any reasonable help with this would be appreciated. I ask because after reading the majority of the posts, several problems have been mentioned that probably should be checked out before the final purchase. Thanks for the info.
After studying the owners manual, I couldn't find a reason to have a seperate key designated as a Valet key. Our glovebox has no locking mechanism and we do not have a trunk-so what is the difference between the black key and the grey one?
Also, still getting use to the air system and while having the air conditioning on, I have had heat coming out of the vent located over the rear passenger wheel well in front of the 3rd seat. Anyone else have this? Am I doing something wrong? If I could get some feedback, I would know if I was doing something wrong or if a call to the service dept. was in order.
We purchased the white SR5 with Oak leather interior and find that it is sooo sharp. Very pleased with the purchase from Tuscaloosa Toyota-Harold Guy. Was best car buying experience yet.
I've provided no misleading claims, only the sharing of data and personal opinions that may or may not fit some of the views of others on this forum. BTW, would you like to share any source for the view that "Others have pointed out that Toyota tends to be conservative with their recommended limits." Or is this simply wishful thinking that might lead others to overload trailers towed by a Sequoia just so you can feel better about the difference in tow capacities versus other tow vehicles?
The only misleading statements shared on the subject of towing appear to be from those portraying my views as evangelical for any manufacturing as I've clearly stated the Sequoia is a solid vehicle and my loyalties are to the manufacturer making the best vehicle for my needs at any given point in time.
minuteman26: please share any response I have provided on any issue that you consider a flame. I have no interest in flaming anyone and I have been consistent in all my remarks from the start in response to questions on towing. I can't be responsible if the facts or experiences I have shared have somehow deflated someone's perception of the capabilities of the vehicle they bought. If that's a flame, its in their own minds only and not in my intentions.
Please note that the tone of my posts are generally proportional to the tone of the post I am responding to. If the dialogue is a positive exchange of information, it will be engaged in the same manner. If the post I am responding to is communicated with an "edge" it will be responded in kind. This forum has not been recognized for any "civility awards" for its ability to openly communicate with non-Sequoia owners that are sharing information contradicting sometimes inflated views.
gpm5: Let's stick to the facts. The 3/4 ton Subs are comfortably rated for the tow experiences I posted and are used for heavy towing purposes by hundreds of thousands of owners towing large boats (myself included), campers and other heavy recreational trailers and have done so for decades.
I agree with your assessment that the leaf springs of the previous 3/4 ton Subs left their owners longing for a more comfortable everyday vehicle as those leaf springs stiffened with time, although the new 3/4 ton's are significantly improved. (In fact that was one of the reasons I moved from a 3/4 ton Sub to a Denali XL which is on a 1/2 ton chassis).
aix91: Toyota would have been third in the running for sales of Full-size SUVs if they had sold only one Sequoia simply because GM, Ford and Toyota are the only players in town. In many respects I am thankful for Toyota's entry because it forces GM and Ford to make better products instead of simply offering a truck with a large cab. I hope Toyota comes out with further improvements to the Sequoia and heavier duty suspensions to keep GM and Ford improving. If GM and Ford don't continue their progress, my next SUV could very well be a Sequoia or some future version...maybe a Sequoia XL:)
I used to be able to access AI Automobile Industrustries website for month-to-month automotive model sales. Unfortunately, the statistics have been taken off-line to the public and made into a subscription service. In the Spring of this year the Sequoia had a single digit marketshare when compared to GM F/S SUVS and a low single digit marketshare % when compared to GM and Ford combined.
The following site has some information on sales through July '01 showing the GM F/S SUVs are up almost 34.8% over last year. Total Toyota sales were up 5.8% mainly due to the Sequoia, Highlander and RAV4. Ford's Expedition sales were down -16.4%. Excursion sales were down almost 40%.
Feel free to review the site below, however if anyone has been able to track down a site with more current or specific sales statistics by model, I would be very interested in the info.
<http://www.bofasecurities.com/featuredresearch/content/consumer/tadross_080201_8.pdf>
I would get the '02. Even a new '01 is now a year old 'used' car with the resulting depreciation. I have an early '02 SR5 4WD, differences from the '01 that I know of: improved steering and stability; customer programmable door locks; revised anti-slip program to reduce tendency to 'stall' when accelerating with one wheel on gravel, dirt, sand, etc.; factory installed fog lights available on the SR5. There may be more but I don't know what they are.
You will really love your Sequoia.
2HD.
jazztransplant: Do you have the auto. climate control? One reason I can think of getting warm air is that the rear climate control is set too high or the outside ambient temp is low. Even with the A/C switch on it doesn't nessesarily mean you're going to get chilled air. The climate computer determines whether you get heat or cold. Turning on the A/C switch in the winter also gets you dehumidified (but warm) air. Again with everything on auto. the computer determines which vent to use as well. I must say it works well. It's neat to watch the display first direct air to the lower vents then both then finally the upper vents only as the car/weather heats up with our current weather. Valet key? I think mine's in some drawer somewhere-lost.
All keys carry a transponder, and must be programmed before they can be used to start the ignition.
The black key is a "master"... it opens all doors, starts the ignition, AND can be used to program more master or slave keys.
The grey key is a "slave"... it opens all doors, starts the ignition, but CANNOT be used to program additional keys.
Only a limited number (I think 6) of master keys can be programmed... without a master key, no more keys can be programmed, and you would need to replace/reprogram the ignition computer for lots of $$$ if you need more keys.
I was advised to put one master away for safekeeping...
Escalade - 24,000 units vs 20,000 units
Chevy Sub/Tahoe - 295,000 units vs 232,000 units
GMC Yukon/XL/Denali - 121,000 units vs 89,000 units
Total GM F/S SUVs = 440,000 units vs 341,000 units
GM marketshare of F/S SUVS = 65.3% unit sales up 29% over same period last year
Ford Expedition - 149,000 units vs 184,000 units
Ford Excursion - 29,000 units vs 44,000 units
Total Ford F/S SUVs = 178,000 units vs 228,000 units
Ford marketshare of F/S SUVS = 26.4% unit sales down -22% over same period last year
Toyota Sequoia = 56,000 units
Toyota marketshare of F/S SUVs = 8.3% new model with no sales in 2000
Most dealers do like the add-ons for the reason you have mentioned....larger profit. That doesn't mean that you have to accept them. The main problem the potential Sequoia owner faces is that he/she is after a vehicle which is very popular right now which gives the dealer the advantage over the purchaser, and getting one without these add-ons may require an extended waiting period.
What about going OUTSIDE the GS area???
Maybe some of the online buyer services or individual dealers can do better for you.....
Now, for a few comments. I haven't perused all 100+ posting since I left but I did want to comment on a few things that were posted last week.
1. Luvsuv. Thanks for the good words in post #3928.
2. Daylaura. The grinding sound you are hearing probably is from the VSC system. In a hard corner with loose gravel, the VSC will activate to prevent lateral skids. The VSC system uses the ABS actuators which sound like a grinding and clicking noise. It is very normal.
3. Rward99. In post #3931 you asked about 4x2 for towing a boat. I am a fan of 4WD, especially when pulling a boat up a steep or slick ramp. If there is a truck you can get away with 4x2, it is the Sequoia. You may want to read my explanation of the Sequoia drive train which is in the topic "Toyota 4 Wheel Drive Systems Explained" in the SUV conference. The Sequoia does not have limited slip but what it has is far better at finding traction.