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Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

18990929495157

Comments

  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    From what I understand, any future parts that will be shared will mostly be drivetrain related and not interior trim. For example, the next generation Chrysler LHS will share the '03 E-classes steering rack. It will be Jeep that will benefit from future parts sharing since they will be using MB parts, not the other way around (there is something in the merger agreement about this). I wouldn't worry too much about it unless they start degrading quality on the MB end.

    I'm guessing that If the ML was assembled in the US with solely German made components, the price would probably be significantly higher, closer to the BMW X5 levels.


    Drew
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  • miketynermiketyner Member Posts: 2
    I have been waiting to get the new 2002 M Class as I had heard about the changes they were making from the previous model year editions. I saw an earlier post about ordering a 2002 ML320 through the Internet Office at the Mercedes Dealer in Bakersfield California. I contacted the guy there and you were right on. After going through a couple of other online services I found the guy there to be very straight forward and pleasant to work with. He didn't try to work me over on the price or ask me "what payment do I want". We configured my ML together and I am paying a flat $1000 over invoice. I am expecting to take delivery in October so I'm really jazzed. I would like to go back to the factory and pick it up but I can't get off work so I will just pick it up at the dealer. The guy tells me he is taking orders on all 2002 models and gives a good, no haggle price on whatever you choose. My dad is thinking about ordering a G Class so I am going to hook him up with the same guy. If anybody is interested - here the guy I am working with:

    Ron Hoff
    ronhoff@sangera.com
    800-848-3494

    I don't have his direct dial number. I think the 800 number goes to the switchboard so you'll probably have to ask for him. He is the manager for the internet sales and worked the whole deal for me himself - very nice guy to talk to and work with. Tell him I sent you his way...
  • integrussintegruss Member Posts: 1
    I have a '98 ML320 and have had numerous problems, mostly electrical.

    The latest was that the auto transmission locked up in third gear and would not upshift.

    Has anyone had a similar problem and if so, what was the fix?
  • gustavmgustavm Member Posts: 43
    "It will be Jeep that will benefit from future parts sharing since they will be using MB parts, not the other way around (there is something in the merger agreement about this)."

    It would make sense, Drew, that such a clause would exist and that it be public, if only to reassure both shareholders, investors and consumers that MB's quality reputation would not be jeopardized. As it is, indeed, Chrylser stands to gain from MB's technical expertise, and MB from a greater economy of scale.

    The JGC has been, and still is, a vehicle with such terrible reputation for reliability and poor build, that the mere suggestion that it could share anything with MLs is scary.

    Thank you for your reassuring lines, though.

    -- Gustav
  • sequoiasaurussequoiasaurus Member Posts: 240
    The Oct 01 issue of Automobile has an article and picture of the upcoming MB GST crossover vehicle that is shown in the link above.
  • michml320michml320 Member Posts: 42
    Skimmel,
    I have one huge toddler seat(the full size one for the whole body) and right next to it is a base for an infant seat. My 6 year old sits in the third row. He climbs in the back door even though the middle row seat that slide forward is clear to move, it's just easier to hop in the back door. 350 miles on my 2002 and no problems whatsoever (knocks wood). Get the 2002 ML!
  • proteus456proteus456 Member Posts: 65
    We just took a look at the 2002ML, and my wife is nixing it for the following reasons. We need to carry 4 adults and two kids in childseats, 1 infant, and 1 toddler.
    Assuming I put the toddler in the third row, and the infant and two adults in the middle row....
    There's no room for any cargo! No room for diaper bags, 2 strollers (or a double stroller, etc). Has anyone thought about this? Any suggestions? The alternative is a minivan..(yuck).
    Help!
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    if you regularly need to carry that much stuff - you're looking at an Expedition, Sequoia or minivan. Mid-sized SUV will be tasked trying to carry that much on a regular basis.

    I figured I'd have to do something similar from time to time - but figured I'd depend on a luggage box on the rooftop carrier. Those waterproof carriers can extend your trunk considerably, and are great in terms of on-the-spot storage.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    image

    Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
    http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/mercedeschat.html


    Drew
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  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    A minivan remains the most practical solution if you have to carry many people. Otherwise, you'll have to settle for a minivan or a full-size SUV. Here's what others have done... remove one 3rd row seat (usually the driver's side) and use the rest. From what I have read, there should be enough room for the child seats + the adults + the cargo; there are MB metal dividers that you can purchase to seperate the cargo from the 3rd row passenger. There is also some space, enough for a couple of duffle bags, behind the 3rd row..It won't be the most comfortable for the rear seated adults, but I'm assuming that you don't have to do this on a daily basis (4 adults). You can purchase a rooftop rocket box or a lockable hitch mounted cargo box for any additional "stuff".

    Good luck!

    Drew
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    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • skimmelskimmel Member Posts: 43
    Thanks for the info.
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    If you regularly need that many, you have to get a Sequioa/LC or minivan.

    A friend made a similiar decision recently. This time, it was his WIFE who didn't want the minivan (she had major yuck problems w/ the image and wanted a rugged LC; picture a woman who is 5' tall saying this ;-) They regularly drive the kids and parents around. Ended up w/ an Odyssey w/ add-on leather (the concession the friend made to keep his wife happy). They like being able to walk between the seats and reconfigure the chairs.

    Maybe your wife will let you get an S2000 to compensate for driving the minivan most of the time ;-)
  • dave01dave01 Member Posts: 12
    Does anyone have the invoice prices for the 2002 ML320s, and common options? I've seen the MSRP discussion and links here, but the reference section doesn't list the '02s yet. The discussions of $xxx above invoice makes me think someone has it. Thanks!
  • sequoiasaurussequoiasaurus Member Posts: 240
    #4562 Proteus- check out the Sequoia. I've had mine for 10 months now and absolutely love it. I drive it everyday and I've ordered my wife an '02 ML320.

    She had a minivan and hated it. She made me drive it and I hated it too. Very nerdy. I traded it for a Sequoia and couldn't be happier.

    The ML is great but the room is an issue that I can understand. I have 2 little one's myself (34 mths and 8 mths). We will use the ML for our family outings and Sequoia for friends and family.

    #4567 Dave01- I haven't received the official invoice prices only the MSRP. I took the usual MB markup and figured them out myself. These are a pretty good "guess-timate" if you will.

    I looked at last years prices and the 02's that have been released for the other models. I feel pretty confident in these numbers. It's about a 7.52% markup I believe.

    2002 ML PRICES
    INVOICE MSRP
    Base $33,761 $36,300
    Brilliant Silver (744) $460 $495
    Ash Leather (268) $- $-
    Bose (168) $1,116 $1,200
    Parktronic (220) $944 $1,015
    Xenon (172) $814 $875
    Heated Seats (873) $590 $635
    M1 Luxury (107) $1,520 $1,635
    M2 Convenience (102) $1,200 $1,275
    M3 (ML 500 Conv) (103) $744 $800
    M5 Sunroof (105) $1,186 $1,295
    M6 Sport (772) $3,116 $3,350
    M7 3rd row seats (152) $1,097 $1,180
    Destination $645 $645
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    Just go to http://www.kbb.com - select 'build a car', enter your zip code, and select Mercedes-M-class-2002...


    You'll get to an interactive page, which will create a printable list of your selected options, and their respective MSRP and invoice prices.


    I managed about $1k over invoice armed with this sheet, after visits/phone calls to four NYC area dealers.


    Good luck,

    -John

  • tariktarik Member Posts: 344
    In yesterday's top ten list (top ten signs you've had a bad summer, http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/#), the #2 pick reads "You finally visit the Hamptons and you wind up under a Mercedes SUV".


    Does this refer to the Lizzy Whatever incident in NYC, or am I missing something?


    Always curious Tarik

  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    Yes, it does.
    Hope she gets a good caning for it :-)
  • sequoiasaurussequoiasaurus Member Posts: 240
    Thanks John. I didn't realize that KBB had updated their web site yet. Edmund's still doesn't have theirs updated neither does carpoint.com.

    I was pretty close on some of those invoice prices.
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    the spreadsheet you sent me was pretty much where I got (I did a bit better, but you had a metallic paint, which made it a wash).

    My question - what's up with M-class owners? Are they not the mailing list/discussion group types?

    I've been looking for a high-traffic site - appears there isn't one. I've posted questions on the M-class mailing list, the forums here and at mbnz.org and mbworld.com - and just keep seeing the same 4 names.

    Is it a cultural thing or am I missing a good site?
  • sequoiasaurussequoiasaurus Member Posts: 240
    Good question. Sometimes this site is in the Top 10 for TownHall but lately it hasn't been.

    When I posted the link to my pictures here last week. Within 2 hours I had 500 hits. As of this morning I have had 13,706 hits. Folks are reading but just don't write much.
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    You have to remember that a good number of these folks are old timers who have been on since the 1998 model. On the m-class mailing list, there are 900+ members. <5% are consistent contributors. There was a lot more traffic in the 1998/1999 days when the ML had problems galore; people tend to like griping and screaming for help rather than contributing (it's human nature...the same is true at companies where people tend to hoard information instead of sharing). More are just enjoying their MLs now.

    You're the new blood now. Contribute. Show us what you've done to personalize your ML or something we didn't know about the 2002 model. Convince some of the old timers to upgrade :-)
  • birgerbirger Member Posts: 80
    Hi,

    it's correct, there has been less traffic on the ML-related sites lately. Hopefully this is a sign that the truck is less problem-ridden!

    Ken - of course I'd like to "upgrade" my '01 270 CDI to a '02/'03 400 CDI, but when I see what it comes to in way of $$$ (or rather €€€ = euros), I tend to put the idea on the back burner ;-) And believe me, the 163 ponies in the 270 CDI seem to come from a good stable - work hard, eat little!

    A Bi-Xenon upgrade does tempt me, however. Could I ask people that have the new Bi-Xenons and may even have known the precedent models to check whether such an upgrade might be feasible? (mechanical fitting as well as electrical connections).

    If I've understood the Bi-Xenon principle correctly, the outboard projector lenses provide both hi and low beams. Are the inboard reflectors then only used as a supplementary hi beam/flash-to-pass light? This puzzles me, and the '02 models are not due here for some weeks or months yet, so if anyone could clear me up on that, I'd be greatful.

    Cheers from cool Luxyland,

    Birger
  • sequoiasaurussequoiasaurus Member Posts: 240
    Birger: I'll be glad to post that info once I get my ML. The dealers around here don't have the xenons put on unless they are requested which isn't that often for some reason. Maybe the cost.

    Anyway when I see one I'll pass along the info.
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    I don't get my car until NOVEMBER!

    That's why I'm struggling with the information - like what kind of navigation system this puppy has (I didn't order it; the wife has said it would make a good first father's day gift, but I don't know how much I'd like it, since I haven't seen it yet).

    The best I've been able to do thus far is get copies of catalogs from just about everywhere on the net. Until then, all I can do is dream about my new car.

    I'm almost positive it's a software thing - I don't know why, but none of the discussion groups I've visited for the M-class thus far has had a very friendly interface. Web-X - pardon me mods, but BLECH!

    I've been trying to prompt some discussion - like where to buy parts, what accessories are the most useful, which all-weather mats are the best... etc. Mostly innocuous.

    Here's another conversation starter - anyone here Zaino'd their ML? I've been thinking about what to do when I first get that bad boy (thinking Lexol the interior and Zaino the exterior), but someone else told me that you have to wait a few months for the paint to completely dry out before detailing it (which sounded like bunk to me, but I thought I'd read it somewhere else as well).

    Probably just the frustration of having to wait for my car :(
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Regarding the Bi-Xenons, you've got it! That's exactly how they work. As you know, HID Xenon headlamps need about 1/2 a minute to warmup up to proper operating colour temperature. The inboard halogen bulbs are used as flash-to-pass since if your low beams are not already turned on, it will take too long for them to warm up when you need them for just those flash-to-pass instances. Halogen bulbs don't require the warmup time that the HID bulbs do, which is why all Bi-Xenon headlamp assemblies (thus far, only European makes have them) also have supplementary high beam halogen bulbs.


    Drew
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  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    It's not really a software thing...as was mentioned before, most people lurk but don't post. This is true across Town Hall. What I encourage you to do is to participate in the weekly MB Tuesday chats. We had one last night, for example.

    How are you reading this discussion topic? Are you "subscribed" to it so that you can easily access your subscribed topics via your message centre? If you have any questions, please let me know.
  • hugenesshugeness Member Posts: 12
    I am just about to try to upgrade from my '99 ML320. At 37,000 miles on my '99, I got a trade-in quote of $26,000. That seems to be about on target if you check here and at KBB. I was going to try to get about $1,000 off MSRP for the '02. The MSRP for the one I want is $42,205 and according to KBB the invoice is $38,836. Maybe I will see if they can go $500 higher on the trade-in and cut the $1,000 off the new car. That seems pretty fair. Any thoughts?
  • cha595a4cha595a4 Member Posts: 3
    Last week I got the ML 02 model with the same options you are talking about. I got 1500 off MSRP. That was the best I could get after trying around 5 dealerships.

    Last week the invoice prices were not available!

    Goodluck
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    john:
    Those questions have been asked before :-)
    I clayed and put 6 coats of Zaino on my ML the week I got it. Don't do it in 40F weather in November like I did. The clay turns rather brittle :-P
    The 2002 Nav isn't available yet AFAIK. Someone tried a 2001 Nav and it didn't work.
    I have a review of the CatchAll mats on my site. www.keysolutions.com/M-Class which is also searchable. It contains my web clippings from the past few years.
    Hang out long enough on the forums and you'll get your answers.

    birger:
    I'd trade my '01 ML320 for an '02 ML400CDI in a heartbeat ;-) You're lucky you have the 270CDI.
    I agree about the cost to upgrade though. We'd lose at least $5K for the switch to the same next year model :-P
    For the Xenon upgrade, try emailing clairparts.com. I'm sure Kevin or Mark can dig up the info for you. Hopefully, it's plug and play.
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    I hate to sound negative - i like all the boards - it's just that I think too many diminishes the effect one board (or two) would have.

    As far as your recs:

    Zaino - I'd have no choice - I'd have to apply in November since I won't see my car until then :(

    Navigation - actually, even a MY2001 would be nice to hear about. I have *never* seen a MB navi unit up close. The dealer didn't have one vehicle to demo the unit on, much to my dismay.

    The question I keep asking - when did MB go to an Alpine based system, and how different is it from other Alpine based systems (or is it the same)? I did test an Acura MDX before I bought the ML, and I loved it's navi system. It's Alpine based, using data from Navtech. Since I hear MB's is the same situation (Alpine based, data from Navtech, although CD-ROM not DVD) - I'm hoping the end result is a very similar system.
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    is Nifty still making CatchAll mats for the ML320? I visited their website - no mention of a Mercedes in any of their application sheets.
  • sequoiasaurussequoiasaurus Member Posts: 240
    Ken you need to get to those pictures back up on your web site! Pay the fee to photopoint for the upgrade its worth the cost. I did. :)

    Thanks for link and all the great reviews.

    Jack
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    john:
    I believe they are still making them. If not, I have another set of the 1st/2nd row set if you're interested. A dot-com auto accessory company sent me two by mistake and didn't give me an RMA number to send them back :-)
    They're the only ones I know of that cover the tranny hump. Be aware of the fit problems I mentioned in my review though.
    As for the Nav, it's something you should try. Go to another dealer. The ML430 and ML55 have it built-in. Your salesdroid should have known this. Coverage is always spotty no matter what, even w/ the DVD ones (you should have heard the MDX owners griping...the TL coverage is greater :-)
    As for the radio, the MCS (video display thingy) came w/ the MY2000 model. Dunno what brand they use. The CD changer used to be Panasonic so I'd be surprised if it is Alpine for the head unit. They went to a fiber optic CD changer in MY2001 and it's no longer Panasonic.

    Seq:
    Interesting. The single picture links are broken now. The album links still work.
    I'll relink to my webshots album.
  • michml320michml320 Member Posts: 42
    Has anyone seen these molded husky floor mats? I've seen them on performanceproducts.com and I have used the McNeil rubber mats but they invariably don't cover everything and these molded things look like they might do the trick? Anyone try them or can anyone recommend really really good floor mats for both front and rear seat floors? How about good seat covers? Help me buy more things and good things for my '02!
  • mbaxendembaxende Member Posts: 2
    I've just bought an ML270Cdi with the AMG kit as an option (I believe it's called a SportsPack in USA), however it only comes with a single AMG exhaust. Has anyone heard of anyone who has tried to add another exhaust to this pack? Do you have to buy a full ML55 system or can you buy a single AMG exhaust and have it attached (before anyone tells me to get the ML55 check out the UK fuel prices!).

    Any help greatly appreciated
  • michml320michml320 Member Posts: 42
    Has anyone seen these molded husky floor mats? I've seen them on performanceproducts.com and I have used the McNeil rubber mats but they invariably don't cover everything and these molded things look like they might do the trick? Anyone try them or can anyone recommend really really good floor mats for both front and rear seat floors? How about good seat covers? Help me buy more things and good things for my '02!
  • kokketielkokketiel Member Posts: 7
    We are very happy with the navigation unit on our 2001 ML430. We arrived in the US last November and bought the car the next day. For the first month we did not even own a paper map - the nav system was used for everything - from apartment hunting to job interviews, and it has never let us down yet.

    Some people complain about the complexity of operating the system - I have still not read the manual completely, and have no problems with operating the unit. Thankfully, it does not have a touch screen, so entering an address you have to spell the name using a cursor key. It helps out by only showing applicable letters, and updating the list to choose from. Generally you only need to select the first few letters of an address.

    The other cool feature is that we have just received our free map update from Navtech, which actually updated the software on the MCS. There is now a different female speaking the directions, and the "splash screen" shows the new model ML. If only it were so easy to upgrade the car!

    All in all we are very happy with the car, and I will definitely think twice before getting a car without nav. If you have any specific questions about the nav unit, please don't hesitate to ask.
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    It's the coverage that most people complain about. Some cities are covered well (doubt it'd work w/ Boston's Big Dig project that seems to rearrange roads every weekend)-:. Most off-highway roads aren't.
    The UI is ok.

    The ML55's exhaust routes through part of the spare tire area IIRC...
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    seeing as I'm in NYC.

    I've heard people complain about the usability. Which prompted me to ask - if it's an Alpine system, shouldn't it be the same as any other Alpine based unit?
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    Sounds like you should be ok in NYC. Go to your dealer. Ask for an ML430 demo or ML500 now. You will have your answer after driving/playing for an hour or two. Have fun :-)
    Let us know how you like it.
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    but I visited 4 - yes *4* dealers - trying to test drive a ML500 - nothing doing. All were already sold.

    As for 430's - none that they had on hand. Two of the 4 said they could get one; the other two said 'sorry - wait for a 500'.

    Ugh!
  • kokketielkokketiel Member Posts: 7
    I asked Navtech about the coverage, since our new house is in a new development and they do not have the street on the CD yet (It was a dirt road in March). They suggested I try out www.mapquest.com to get an idea of their coverage. I suggest you do the same. Of course, what's on the CD ultimately lies with the agreement between Navtech, MB and Alpine, but it should be a good start. The Navtech database is updated quarterly, and the MB one for MCS is updated annually.
  • f888l888f888l888 Member Posts: 45
    I was told that 03 model will host a battery of 48v, that is, double the capacity of current model. And, the starter will function as alternator, and the alternator will function, as, of course, alternator. But I am not so sure.

    The trend is clear. Technology advancement made its way to the car near your garage, like it or not.

    One more thing. I wonder why there are so many slightly used AMG cars sitting in the dealer. Oh, dealer add " market adjustment " of close to $30,000 to a 2002 s55 amg over msrp. Isn't that wonderful?
  • ccweemsccweems Member Posts: 33
    Have pads on the way. Has any one changed the rears? Do the rear brakes have a drum parking brake or do they have some type of hydraulic/mechanical system like VW? Have ordered Rotex pads although they do not have a brake sensor. Have changed the sensor on front pads from one pad to another (don't ask) and it wasn't any problem. Hoping to move the sensor from the old pads to the new. I thought that the front pad sensor were a bit conservative anyway so I don't mind wearing the rear sensors down a bit.
  • noelbongnoelbong Member Posts: 41
    While cleaning the seats in my ML, I noticed 2 scratches. one about an inch long and 1/4 inch wide, and one is a slight scratch (the kind you see if you brush it one direction but disappears if you brush it the opposite direction).

    I was wondering if anyone used a leather repair kit before. I would like to hear from anyone who can help. Thanks in advance.
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    Keep trying. The Nav can be added afterwards if you like it. A user interface thing is almost as personal as whether you like a PC or Mac...some folks love the touch interface, some hate it, etc...
  • nikorrnikorr Member Posts: 23
    Hi everybody , have enyone using power invertor on ML , directli from the battery ? (it is an adapter to make AC outlet from 12 V cig. lighter ) .
    Any help appreciated .
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    From my experience and from what I have read and heard, touchscreens aren't particularly durable in the long run. This allegedly had a large part to do with why the Germans haven't jumped on board with that technology, instead opting for more traditional physical controls.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    IIRC, the parking brake is a drum-in-disc type system. IIRC also, new brake pad sensors are something like only US$5 each.
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