Tires

bonnie_rick · January 1999

many tire topics throughout our Conferences.
Start with the Sedans Conferences' Correct
Tire Pressure? (Topic #1312).

Then come back here and continue those
discussions!

Bonnie Rick
Town Hall Community Manager, edmunds.com

asteinla · February 1999

Has anyone had any experience with the folks over at www.tirerack.com ? They seem to have a pretty slick web site with a good selection of products.

GTRocks · February 1999

I've heard nothing but good things about them.

rrackley · February 1999

Recently, I purchased a 92 Q45 with new Viper Tires. First of all I have no idea who makes these tires. Does anyone else? Anyway, I have a front end vibration that is getting worse even after I had the car aligned and balanced. Now it slightly pulls to the right and the wheel wants to move off center slightly to the right as speed increases. There is also a jumpy type of feathering on the inside edge of the front driver side tire. Anyone have any idea? I think the tie rods and bearings are ok. Many have told me that my tires are bad and simply replacing them will correct the problem. I just don't want to jump and make the purchase when they may not be the problem. Please e-mail me with any info at RRackley@aol.com

poman · February 1999

Does anyone know anything about the laser balancing?? My tire store use the conventional tire balancer, and it didn't balance my tires correctly for several times already. Someone suggested the laser balancing. What tire stores use it??

gus · February 1999

Call tire shops in your area and ask them. Why do you suspect that your tire balance is off? What problems are you having?

poman · February 1999

I got a new set of wheels for my Solara. I upgraded from the stock 205/60HR16 to 215/45ZR/17. The tires are not balanced becuz when I drive on the road the steering wheel and front wheels shake a bit at higher speed. I brought the car back for them to balance again, it was off. After balanced, still does that. So I called the tire company (Nitto) to see if they have any suggestions. They told me try to balance it with laser balancing. They said that some wheels are very difficult to balance correctly.

C13 · February 1999

20, 30 yrs ago the hot tip in tire/wheel balancing was to spin balance them on the car. Nowadays I'm unable to find anybody who does it.

Has spin balancing on the car (which seemed like a heck of a good idea to me) been superceded by some superior method, or does nobody have the equipment or does nobody give a damn or do I just live too far from civilization?

If somebody could explain laser balancing too, I'd be grateful.

poman · February 1999

Well they do spin balance but it's just not on the car. I believe this method is not accurate enough. They had the tire balanced by the spin balance machine the first time I got the tires and wheels. I saw the machine give a 0.0 0.0 read out myself. Then the second time I brought it back and it's off already. What's up with that?? I didn't change or touch the balance weights (it's a stick on weight in the inner sidewall of the rim.) What happened to make the balanced tire unbalance again??

C13 · February 1999

On the car is a whole different thing. Completely different equipment.

It's a way of balancing the entire rotating mass: wheel, tire, brake disc, lugs, etc.

I haven't seen it done in years.

guitarzan · February 1999

Poman, how many miles had you put on the car? The loss of rubber would be the most fundamental reason for the balance changing. I
don't have knowledge of balancing, but think a shifted tire (a possible anomaly) could change the balance also.

poman · February 1999

That's a brand new set of tires and wheels. It has been about 1500 miles already. The steering wheel still shakes (well not exactly shakes, it moves left and right at a small distances (1/8") rapidly) lightly at high speed.

guitarzan · February 1999

First, I'd go with the manufacturer's recommendation, and try a wheel alignment shop with more advanced machinery. It would be comforting if you talked to a few places, and someone finally said, "Oh yea, that combination is trouble, but here are your options." (Key: some knowledge due to experience behind the response.)

ratch · February 1999

High speed shimmy might be caused by a worn out steering damper if your car uses one.

Power assisted rack and Pinion steering can experience high speed flutter as a result of oscillations.

Wheel and tire balance is quite dynamic. Sometimes, the weight has to be split equally on either side of the "light" spot.

Also, if you're weighted only on the inside of the wheel, the tires are probably not fully balanced.

Finally, aggressive driving demands that the tires be shaved -- rounded. Trueing shows up separations and can reveal a tire that cannot be dynamically balanced.

gus · February 1999

Thanks ratch!

kthenke · February 1999

What affect/impact does one achieve in moving up one tire size: i.e. from 185/60HR14 to 195/60HR14?

Will this affect ride, handling, gas mileage, etc.? Any insight would be helpful.

Thanks.

KCRam · February 1999

kt,

Your handling will improve very slightly from the wider footprint. You will suffer from a slightly-off speedometer/odometer because a 195/60 is a fraction taller than a 185/60. A 195/55 would be the same height.

The other factors (mileage, etc.) will be insignificantly changed, because the tire isn't substantially different in size. Had you done a full "Plus 1" conversion - from a 185/60R14 to a 195/50R15, you would see more subtantial differences because the tire now has less sidewall, probably a harder rubber compound, and (likely) less tread depth.

shcst12 · February 1999

I am going to replace all my 175/65 tires to 185/60--it's about time. Does anyone knows which brand/model should I choose from? I prefer all season and low tire noise

KCRam · February 1999

shcst,

what kind of car do you have, and what kind of driving do you do?

shcst12 · February 1999

kcram,
I'm driving new G20. Well, I guess my driving style is not aggressive, but sometimes I would speed on highway--to shorten the trip. In the city, I don't slam hard on gas nor brake. So what you think which model should I consider?

shcst12 · February 1999

kcram,
Sorry about the previous message, that question was for my girlfriend!! She drives toyota corolla (98). Her driving is very conservative--slow.... So what do you recommand for her car?? thank you

KCRam · February 1999

shcst,

if her driving is that conservative, you may not want to change tire sizes - the performance advantages of going to a wider, lower-aspect-ratio tire wil be completely lost on her car.

For her kind of driving, I like the Michelin X-One - available in both 175/65 and 185/60 sizes. They have a lifetime warranty, and with rotation, would probably be the last set of tires you buy for her car.

Check these two websites for info on the X-One:

The Tire Rack - Michelin X-One

Michelin.com - Michelin X-One

ebbutts · February 1999

I just bought a 99 Chrysler Concorde LX with Goodyear Eagle GA P225/160R16 tires. There is a lot of road noise and I'm wondering how much is related to the tires. I used Michelin tires before on a 92 Dodge Dynasty and 2 of the tires had over 60'000 miles on them with still some to go, with regular rotation & balancing.

Any help relative to noise factors for various tire brands. Thanks

rdeschene · February 1999

For what it's worth, here is how CR rated some "touring" tires with regads to noise (dry/wet):

-Michelin MXV4 much better than avg/avg
-Goodyear Eagle GT+4 much better than avg/avg
-Pirelli P6000 much better than avg/avg
-Dunlop D60 A2 with JLB better than avg/worsethan
avg
-Goodrich Touring T/A HR4 better than avg/avg
-Yokohama Avid H4 much better than avg/worse than
avg
-Goodyear Eagle LS much better than avg/avg
-Bridgestone Turanza H much better than avg/worse
than avg
-Firestone Firehawk Touring LH
much better than avg/avg
-Cooper Cobra GTH avg/worse than avg

I don't know if this helps much or not. It's from the '99 Buyer's Guide.

shcst12 · February 1999

what is the optium pressure for tires, like certain pressure below max. psi? Also, is the pressure varied by season?

C13 · February 1999

There's no such thing. There's an optimum pressure for a given car, a given loading and a given type of driving. Check your manual.

soukup · March 1999

shcst12,

You can also check the sticker in the door jam..in some makes of cars it is on the middle console door between the seats, but on most models, it is in the jam. This will give you the stock tire size, speed rating and proper inflation

ral2167 · March 1999

i bought a new car two weeks ago and it seems to track to the left when i let go of the steering wheel-- it slowly veers left-- i took it in to the dealer and they adjusted air pressure-- and they switched the left front tire with the right front tire-- on the ride home it appeared to have solved the problem-- the car is going straight when i let go of the steering wheel (but i'm waiting for a non-windy day to be sure that indeed the problem is solved)-- my question is-- is this a viable solution? if so, why? should the tires be replaced?? thank you

gus · March 1999

It is a viable solution. If you had a problem with your steering rack, or your alignment, you'd retain that same pull to the left. If there were a problem with the tires, you'd have a pull to the right now, since the tires were switched side-to-side. What kind of car is it?

ral2167 · March 1999

toyota solara-- firestone bridgestone tires

philip · March 1999

hi i have a Geo 91 prism (manual Xmission) and recently , while turning, at high speed, the car seems to vibrate a lot and also the steering goes out of control also. All the tires are new Michelen with only 4k miles on them . Also the alignment is good ( as it always drive straight- even at high speed).
Does any one know of the solution.?

markbuck · March 1999

Check your CV joints

poman · March 1999

ral2167, I saw someone's posts back in the coupe conference with the same problem, it's the damn Bridgestone tires causing the problem. Go back to the dealer and tell them to give you Michelin tires (MXV4), then your problem should be solved.

rdeschene · March 1999

philip. Not withstanding Poman's response, I recently experience a similar problem together with a slight, rhythmic, "whump, whump, whump" sound when making a right curve on the highway.

In my case, I replaced the right, rear wheel bearing and the car drives like new again.

Bye for now,
rick d.

gus · March 1999

#29: Those tires will scallop sooner than Michelins will, but until you start to hear the rhythmic thumping associated with the scalloping, don't do anything. No reason to replace tires that are perfectly good. If you can do as Poman says, and get michelins from the dealer, that would be ideal, but who knows if you can do that at this stage.

scorpion12 · March 1999

I've noticed most posts discuss sets of tires... Granted, most problems switch from one side of the car to another if related to a particular tire...

One thing I haven't noticed is mileage posts... Something along the lines of: "I've gotten x amount of miles from my new tires."

Granted I don't want to start a flame war or my tires are better than yours, but I think this particular type of mileage "at least in my case" needs to be tested in a group setting.

I have never gotten more than 2,000 miles out of a set of tires whenever I replace all 4. Yes, that's true mileage, and no it isn't driving habits.

The simple fact of the matter is that whenever I change all 4 tires on a car, that car gets totaled in an accident before the tires reach 2,000 miles.

This phenomenon has been experienced on 2 seperate cars a few years apart, and since then, I only change 2 tires at a time.

Even then, the car gets involved in an accident as well... (Just no major damage)

I know it isn't psychological, but I'm almost finding it easier to just buy a new car each time I need new tires (The only time I have good luck) or trading that particular car in on another.

(Yes, changing just one tire reveals no problems whatsoever.) I've just got to replace tires one at a time 2,000 miles apart.

markbuck · March 1999

Are you the Whacker or the Whackee?

C13 · March 1999

Scorpion

That's pretty funny. It happened to me. Hope it doesn't happen on the new car.

rdeschene · March 1999

Scorpion12. Assuming there was SOME serious inquiry in your post, I would contribute the following:

Goodyear "Concorde Caliper" - 50000km
Goodyear S4S - based on three sets of tires on
three separate cars. 70000km.

I replaced these tires when I considered them "worn out", that is to say with about 5/16" tread depth left in them. A tire that can't shed snow and rain is pretty much useless, in my opinion.

KCRam · March 1999

rdes,

5/16"? Tires are generally measured in 32nds, so that's 10/32" - a new car tire is usually just 12/32". Did you mean 5/32"?

C13 · March 1999

Hell, I run em till I got 5 MICRONS of tread. Sometimes of rubber.

I consider a tire useless when it won't slide.

scorpion12 · March 1999

I'm usually the one who gets hit... Except for that one time when my car rolled...

That's why I upgraded to a car that was #1 safer, and #2 could get me out of the way of some of the boneheads down here who can't drive...

For some reason, the state of South Carolina determined that everyone had a right to drive and insurance companies "would" insure people. That made all insured drivers pay a recoupment fee that allowed these otherwise uninsurable drivers the ability to drive.

Just this year, the state said that wasn't required. WooHaa!!!

Lower insurance rates "hopefully"... now if we can just get rid of this lousy car tax.

(For those who don;t know, we have to pay a personal property tax on our vehicles.) the more our car's worth, the more we pay... It isn't unusual to have a new car run a property tax of over $1,000 per year for the "privilege" of driving in this "lovely" state.

Scorpion12

scorpion12 · March 1999

By the way, so far so good on the new Passat... we've had it 5 mos. and only 2 near misses!

Geez, I hate the way these people down here drive!!!!!

spokane · March 1999

C13, you noted that 20+ years ago on-car spin balancing was preferred, noting that such a procedure balances the hub and brake rotor (or drum) as well as the tire and wheel. Indeed, balancing the hub and rotor is desirable. However, the off-car low-speed "computerized" balancer was developed because it calculates imbalance in two separate planes and determines the correction weight needed for each plane. This is better than single-plane balancing because there can be right-to-left dimensional or weight differences in the tire/wheel as well as differences around the circumference. This process does not balance the hub and rotor, of course, but the trade-off is usually worthwhile because (1) hub and brake are factory balanced (2) usage doesn't lead to much loss of balance and (3) the diameter or the brake assy is rather small with respect to the tire diameter so a given imbalance mass at the OD of brake assy will have much less effect than it would if located at the tire OD.

However, like any equipment, the two-plane "computerized" balancers do need periodic calibration to maintain their accuracy.

A tire with excessive radial run-out (out of round) can deliver a poor ride even though its dynamic balance is good. I haven't seen recent specs, but several years ago Ford had a maximum allowable radial TIR (Total Indicated Runout) of 5/64" or 0.078". This should be checked if vibration continues after balancing. Sometimes radial TIR can be improved by remounting the tire on the wheel; at other time the the tire (or wheel) must be replaced.

By the way, I recently wanted to use an on-car spin balancer to help identify a suspect wheel bearing. Like you, I found that all the shops in my area had scrapped that equipment.

mugwump2 · March 1999

Hate to tell you but the Concorde is a NOISY car as are all LH's except the 300M and LHS. That's why I traded my 95 Concorde on a 300M. The 99 was as noisy as the 95. Don't know what CC's problem with them is as it CAN be fixed.

C13 · March 1999

Awesome. You're a wealth of info, dude. I been wondering about that balancing thing for years.

rdeschene · March 1999

kcram. Yep, sorry, that's 5/32" NOT 5/16". I'm used to expressing such measurements in millimeters.

rporter · March 1999

Anybody familiar with Regul Questa tires? They came on a 3-year-old Maxima I just bought and at about 70 mph, I get some vibration. Seems to be the tires. I'm thinking I should have somebody look at them. Any suggestions?

luvboxrs · April 1999

I've got a new vehicle 2300k miles. Replaced orig tires with larger Michelins at 200 miles. The Michelins are cupping/scalloping after only 2,000 miles! A tire guy (not the one who sold me the Michelins) says I have front end problems. What does that mean? What does that encompass?

What causes tires to cup?

TIA!

spokane · April 1999

Luvboxers, wheel alignment "toe" is the most likely cause of the scalloping problem. This adjustment is known to anyone who performs wheel alignments. On modern cars with radial tires, the adjustment is rather critical. It must be set on the front wheels for all cars and also on the rear for many front-wheel drive cars. Wheel imbalance (which you probably would sense during driving) and the alignment camber and caster can also cause your problem. Your change to alternate size tires could possibly amplify a problem of slight misalignment. Suggest you find a good alignment shop and correct the problem right away, else you may have to listen to the drumming of the scalloped tires for as long as they last. And, as you imply, the tires won't last nearly as long.

meemee · April 1999

99 avalon came with general tires that toyota dealer replaced as defective. Problem more likely seems to be alignment. Have been told that toyota alignments are factory set and sealed ? Am I being given a snow job? I think so. Ideas out there?

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