Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to learn more!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
And then there was that sorta-flat top 61 Caddy, a Vista?
The 4W model was a lot more popular for 1962, when they got rid of the wraparound window and made the C-pillar thicker.
And yep, they do seem a bit out of proportion, when viewed from the side like this. I think I'd prefer a full-length model, but they're still good looking cars.
I like the oddball stuff. A couple years ago I started a separate thread about 1968 Chevelle Concours coupes. I can remember seeing exactly one in person, decades ago. They're not in any brochure or coffee-table book I've ever seen. They were like the 'Cutlass Supreme' or 'Skylark Custom' of Chevelles. That thread pulled some photos up, as did the 'net. So weird I haven't been able to find a shred of factory evidence of them. Other '68 Chevelles don't do a thing for me. LOL
My Dad bought a new '67 Chevelle on March 20, 1967. I can remember going with him to look at the '68's when they came out. Even at age nine, I remember saying, "Dad, they're smaller than ours". The coupes were shorter, and the sedans, although on a one-inch-longer wheelbase, seemed narrower than our '67. Not that that's bad, just an observation.
For 1965, even though the rest of the Cadillac line was all-new and went to a perimeter frame, the Fleetwood 75 was a carry-over from '64. In fact, I think the Fleetwood 75 even used the old 4-speed Hydramatic that year, as opposed to the new THM400.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
That 59 Chevy he tested was a bit of an oddball with that troublesome air bag suspension and the even more troublesome dog of a Turboglide transmission.
I'm sure it wasn't too many years before the air suspension got yanked out and converted to conventional springs and that Turboglide most likely got converted to a Turboglide.
348's weren't "bad" engines my any means but a healthy 283 with Power Pack could certainly keep up with one if not whip it in a quarter mile.
409's were incredible. I had a 64 Impala SS with the 400 HP and a four speed. I loved throwing my passengers back in their seats!
I wonder how feasible it would be to swap in a more modern transmission like a THM350/400, or the later 700R4? I've heard that another problem with some of the modern transmissions, especially the 4-speed and up models, is that they can sometimes be physically large, so they won't always fit in the same spot that the older units did. As a result, you have to do some cutting and welding, and modify the transmission hump. At least, I've heard that's the case with old Chrysler products, when people would try to put the more modern 4-speed Torqueflite in where the old 3-speed Torqueflites used to be.
Those 58-64 full sized Chevies had that two piece driveshaft with the center mount. The center mount had a bearing and a big rubber bushing or grommet. When that rubber wore out that driveshaft would bang around pretty badly.
It was basically a Sedan De Ville but a stripped down model. I remember it didn't have A/C and the seat fabric had a downgraded look to it. I don't recall if it had power windows or seats.
I don't think many people wanted these. I mean, why buy a wannabee Cadillac?
But, over time, the DeVille started to become the breadwinner, and I wonder if over time, it might have been cheapened a bit? That might have forced them to push the 62/Calais downscale a bit?
Car prices in those days could be surprisingly deceptive. For instance, a '61 DeSoto 4-door hardtop had a base price of around $3267. But, I knew someone who had one and its original MSRP was around $5,000! That's pushing into Cadillac territory! Why was it so pricey? Well, it had an automatic transmission, power windows, locks, AM radio, heater, etc, and most important of all...air conditioning!
Surprisingly, the Calais made it through 1976, and wasn't jettisoned until GM started downsizing. Cadillac saw fit, for whatever reason to keep it around that long, but I wonder if it was worth it? In 1976, they sold 4500 of the coupe, and only 1700 hardtop sedans. The Deville sold 114,482 coupes and 67,677 hardtop sedans. By that time there wasn't a *huge* difference in price. A Calais coupe started at $8629, while a Coupe DeVille started at $9,067. By that time I think a/c, power windows/locks etc were standard in a Calais. That's a $438 difference which doesn't sound like much, but adjust for inflation and it's around $1800. Still, when you get into luxury cars, I don't know that people are shopping for the best deal! They want the snob appeal.
In hindsight, I rather like the '75 and '76 Calais with the bright plaid interior....looks kind-of "young" to me now. The optional vinyl used in '70's Calais models seemed like good quality and didn't get the cracks and aging that leather in deVilles and Fleetwoods got. I did not like that the last Calais models lacked the rocker moldings though.
I saw a new black '72 Calais sedan at our local dealer (which was also the Chevy dealer). It had blackwalls, full wheelcovers, PW, no air, and no radio. I remember it as plain as yesterday. The bottom of the window sticker was $6,480. I remember that plainly too. It had zero options on the window sticker. I never saw it again at the dealership and never saw it around town.
There was a very clean black '65 Calais sedan at a restoration shop maybe fifteen miles away, a few years back. It had crank windows. By '72, power windows were even standard on a Calais and probably were even earlier.
This all reminds me that up until '70, you could get a Sedan deVille (pillared hardtop) and a 'Hardtop Sedan deVille' as the brochure called it. In earlier years you could also get a pillared Calais Hardtop Sedan, although by '70 the only four-door Calais was a hardtop.
Funny. Certainly true, but I don't ever recall people talking about rollovers or roof strength, except in some demo derbies or other racing arenas. I don't think rollovers became that big of a deal to most people until the ill-fated Ford Explorer and Firestone Wilderness tires fiasco. What I do remember about the flat tops was a reputation for chassis and body shimmy.
As for the Cadillac Calais, I don't recall seeing many of them around. You could get a fairly nicely equipped Electra or 98 for that money back then.
The equipment level in a Calais was just enough to make you question your choice. It had automatic A/C, but no 6-way power seats, for instance.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
He was a white-shoe and white-belt kind of guy back then. His daughter was in my high-school class although we were of two very different social stratas (LOL), but I've since found out she only lives about six miles from us now. Our hometown is an hour-and-a-half drive away.
I know GM was huge back then and probably wanted to cover all possible buyers, but I never understood the Calais. I thought it cheapened the brand. But then I think the same about MB and BMW bringing out those small cheapies as well these days. I can see Audi doing it, but the other two are supposed to be premier nameplates. Of course, many people can get those premier vehicles today by leasing, so owning one doesn't necessarily reflect their real wealth status anymore anyway I suppose (but they better dump it before they have to pay for maintenance and repairs or the next one may be a used Ford!).
As long as the big luxury brand names keep making fantastic top of the line models - as they are today - the cheapies won't hurt things too much, Even if many are leased, you still need above average cash flow and credit to qualify - so it's not anarchy just yet. That's maybe just one way the old American luxobarge makers went astray - they introduced cheaper models, but most of the higher models weren't very good either.
Even though BMW had some really nice cars, like the Bavaria, I think the bulk of their sales were the 2002, which was good for what it was, but most people would NOT call it a luxury car.
Considering that the Cadillac Seville came out late in the 1975 model year, and was inspired by Mercedes Benz, I'm sure GM had their eye on Benz for awhile. The fuel crisis didn't until the tail-end of 1973, actually into the 1974 model year, so I'd imagine the Seville had been in the works before the fuel crisis. And, all of GM's X-bodies, which got a heavy revision for 1975, were often known as the "European" Nova et al. The Granada was also Mercedes inspired...they even go after it, almost comedically, in their advertising. Considering these cars would have come out in the 1974 calendar year, they had to have been in the works since what? 1972, 1973 at the latest. And, while it was a very modest effort, Dodge and Plymouth had body-color hubcaps on their Dart S/E and Valiant Brougham starting in 1974, and I'm sure they got that from Mercedes.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
What year is this? Had a friend with a Cutlass Supreme back in the late 60s and I remember lots of fuel pump issues. Said friend always used the cheapest mechanic in town too though.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Much nicer looking than my friend's ride (it was a green shade, and I'm really foggy trying to remember the year).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
This cruise is nice as you sit and the car show comes to you! Crusing back and forth down the street, cars dropping in and being added; it's just great. On display near where I was sitting was a '59 fuel-injected Corvette, a light metallic blue (not that creamy non-metallic light blue I'm used to seeing on that era 'Vette) with white cove and bone-stock, and gorgeous under the hood. My favorite car at the show. And although I'm typically not a fan of Sting Rays, there was a maroon '66 fastback with the knockoff wheels and 425 hp 427 that was probably my second-favorite car in the show.
2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav
It was originally a 350 Rocket 2-bbl but back in the mid-90s I was able to source the factory parts to make it into a 4-bbl. Early use of the internet in fact - the intake, air cleaner and assorted bits came from Ohio, and the carb from Illinois. The transmission is the original Jetaway, though I do have a TH350 sitting in the garage awaiting a rebuild, and I may decide to upgrade to that for the sake of a lower 1st gear and a bit more jump off the line. Cars like this are never "done".
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav
Speaking earlier as some guys were about a '64 Olds Jetstar, there was a dark green, driver-quality '64 Jetstar 88 convertible in the Mayfield Hts. cruise last night. Going from memory here only, but I think the Jetstar 88 was only '64; entry-level Olds. The Jetstar I, in my mind, was sort-of like Pontiac's 2+2--a lower-price version of the Starfire (Grand Prix in Pontiac-land). The Jetstar I lasted into '65 I believe even though I don't think the Jetstar 88 did. I'll have to look at the Old Car Manuals project online.
EDIT: There was a '65 Jetstar 88. I thought there might have been, but just wasn't sure.
I don't think it actually went into any Chevrolets though, even though it would mate up to the 6-cyl. It was also known as the Super Turbine 300 in the Buicks, but Pontiac didn't give it a special name...just called it "automatic".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Turbine_300
That's my favorite GM design of that era, although I like the 70 Chevelle, too(it would have to be an SS).
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])