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Old Cars--When to call it quits
A semi-continuation of Welcome Conference Topic
#380, "Donating Your Clunker to Charity." A place
for you to ponder the fate of your clunker.
Sometimes it's hard to say good-bye to our cars.
Do you donate it, scrap it, or plant it in the
ground?
#380, "Donating Your Clunker to Charity." A place
for you to ponder the fate of your clunker.
Sometimes it's hard to say good-bye to our cars.
Do you donate it, scrap it, or plant it in the
ground?
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Comments
Money (or lack thereof) is a big consideration.
Kelly Blue Book rates it $3,900 retail for excellent running condition, or $1,000 as trade-in for fair (but running) condition. I don't think you should fix it, since it would cost more than it might be worth after you fixed.
It could be worth it if it is decent. The price sounds fair, but do you know what you are getting? Everything involves some risk, but it is a safe bet you are going to need transportation of some kind, and it is certainly cheaper to repair than buy, regardless of what book values are, etc.
Dexter8th,
I don't know. What kind of fluids do you use and when do you change them? What are your driving habits? That's very impressive mileage. You must be doing more than a little bit right...250,000 miles on the original tranny? Take it to Buick. They should just give you a new one for being so loyal.
My folks have a 92 Park Ave with half as many miles and have had nothing but problems (electrical).
I would start making payments to a new car fund and be ahead of the game if the Buick happens to endure for a few more years.
has a crack and the engine has a crack
if you start getting say a quart every second fillup, and you're not leaking, then you might start thinking about a rebuild or a replacement car.
Those older 'sporty' domestics you mention are rugged cars, no doubt about it, but don't expect 1990s refinement, economy and driveability, because you won't find it in the old-timers. Braking and steering are a bit scary.
I agree with mr_shiftright not to worry about the oil consumption. Personally, I would be more concerned about the automatic transmission. There is really no way to know, except you said it was 105,000 miles of mostly short trips. That means lots of gear shifting. The friction lining on the wet clutches wears away eventually, on some cars faster than others. In any case, you seem to have had decent service life overall. But climbing out on a limb to answer your question of how long, and with a caveat that I don't have a crystal ball to look into, I'd say no more than 20 to 25 thousand miles for the tranny.
without much luck. They just don't last the way
the original equipment does. The best way to
rebuild is to buy original factory equipment built
to spec. Those drivetrains last.
The other questions you still have to ask yourself
are whether the rest of the major systems are also
going to outlast your payback period on the replaced drivetrain.
57000 miles and have had some expensive repairs (including head gasket}. Now my brake pedal sticks intermittently and they say it's the "brake boost" costing about $500 with labor. Is this the beginning of the end?
[
Based on what I have seen and read, the 3.8 liter engine is not a very good one as far as reliability goes. The Taurus as well as the Windstar have been plagued with problems with this engine to the point where there is a class action suit against Ford about it. The AXOD transmissions (which I assume your Taurus has since my '92 Sable GS has it) have also been problematic and the extended warranty that Ford put on them has expired. As far as the brakes go, that is one of the few things I have had problems with on my Sable. The rear calipers needed replacement recently and managed to chew through a set of pads and a rotor. The rotors also seem like they are in constant need of resurfacing. I had this done a year ago and it has needed it for a few months now, but I am putting it off as long as I can stand it. My car has 120000 miles, so your Taurus may well have lots of life left.
* I'm the second owner; purchased it in '88 with 31,500 miles on it. The car has been maintained very well and driven with care. It's now a spare car in the family.
* Near perfect body and interior.
* Repaired transmission at 88,000 miles; it's shifting well, but these early GM FWD 4 speed automatics aren't the most durable transmissions.
* Had rack & pinion replaced under extended warranty, but it needs it again. Cost $500.
* A/C is original. It works fine, but it makes a sound that suggests tired bearings. Figure the A/C compressor will go by next summer.
Can't live without A/C June - September in Maryland.
* Timing chain is original.
* The suspension and electrical system are fine, but the mileage is a consideration for these and other components.
Should I scrap this car it or repair/maintain it? What is the life expectancy of this vintage 3.8 V6 engine (the new GM 3.8's are exremely durable and reliable, but numerous improvements have been made since '85)?
You make good points as to the timing chain & sprockets. Indeed, a replacement "kit" consists of the chain and both sprockets. The sintered iron sprockets are indeed better than the plastic or phenolic materials. These parts are not expensive; labor is the "kicker" here. At failure, some cars can indeed damage valves and pistons ...I thought the 3.8 GM engine was not vulnerable to this damage but I will defer to your mechanic. My point regarding frequent oil changes has to to with the fact that the timing chain area is especially prone to accumulate oil sludge which prevents lubrication of the parts, leading to failure. Frequent oil changes (~3000 mi) minimize sludge and improve the life of these components. Again, if your contact has seen failures on this engine type in spite of (1) frequent oil changes and (2) engine never having been overheated, perhaps you should go ahead. (And please let me know!)
Suspension softness ...I agree wholeheartedly with each of your points on this. (You and are probably in a minority on this point among owners of large GM cars.) My old Buick, fortunately, does have the "handling package" which, I believe, consists of slightly different spring rates and shock calibrations. The Monroe "Sensa-Tracks," installed at ~100K-miles, seemed to restore the handling and ride very nicely.
One thing I failed to mention earlier; boots on the CV joints are likely near failure if you haven't replaced them already. It's my impression this car is no better or worse than other front-wheel drives in this regard. The CV joints are not bad to fail unless a boot has ruptured and allowed the lubricant to escape. Some people prefer to replace the axle assembly(s) once the boots near failure as evidenced by cracking of the rubber. Because of the labor associated with a boot replacement, that's probably a good idea. Rebuilt axle assemblies are available at ~$80/ea. for this car.
Because your Olds is an extra car in the family, you may be able to shop for low labor prices by allowing the shop to keep the car for several days and do the work on a fill-in basis ....just don't take it to the run-down filling station, which every town has, that already has 50 derelict cars awaiting some miracle repair!
Regarding the last sentence of the second paragraph of your second message, my engine has never overheated.
You're fortunate that your Buick is equipped with the optional suspension. I don't think many were. Are you the original owner or were you lucky to find a car so equipped? From what I understand you don't give up much, if anything, in terms of ride comfort, which makes me wonder why Buick and Olds didn't equip all of its cars this way, as Ford did with the Taurus.
This weekend, the engine went. I had two mechanics listen to it and they said it sounded like a bearing problem. A friend of mine has offered me $1,000 for it as is. Is it time to let go, or would it make any sense to make the engine repair?
No major engine or transmission problems, however, the interior needs work, driver seat, roof lining, dash cracked, turn signals & defroster needs work. Body is fair shape with a good detail. My wife says it's time. How about some comments?
That said, you're asking an excellent, yet rather subjective question, meaning that, to a great extent, you're the only one that can make the final call on whether to dispose of your car or spend money and time to restore it to where you'll be happy keeping it. I doubt if there's anything anyone could tell you that you don't already know, such as, (1) the car doesn't owe you anything; (2) there comes a time when it indeed is time to call it quits, but that doesn't tell you when that exact time is, because to a great extent it's a judgement call; (2) excellent though they may be, Saabs tend to be expensive on parts and labor; These are just examples, and the list of considerations, pro and con, is endless. Also, unless the car has been in an accident or is otherwise severely damaged -- by rust, for example -- virtually every argument for disposing of your car can be countered by an argument for keeping it (example, it looks old, doesn't make a good impression any more...yes, but who the heck cares what others think, etc., etc.)
You should factor your wife's advice into your decision, since it may be more objective than yours. Also, if keeping the car versus disposing of it has become a source for arguments at home, that's DEFINITELY something to seriously consider. If your wife is merely rendering an opinion, but doesn't particularly care whether you keep or dispose of your Saab, you're, (1) lucky...maybe, and, (2) back to square one.
Finally, it appears to me that you've really bonded with your Saab, in the sense that you've formed an emotional attachement with it, and may be grappling with that issue every bit as much as the rational factors of the decision on what to do. I started a topic in Edmunds Town Hall under "NEWS & VIEWS" for people who can't stand to get rid of their old cars because they've gotten emotionally attached to them. I suggest that you take a few moments to read what other's have written. It may influence your decision. You might also want to post your story there for other readers.
Good luck! And, by all means, ihl2, let us know what you finally decide to do, and why.
Current status: steering box failing ($800+ parts&labor), valve tapping/sticky lifter ($550+ parts&labor), need to replace original floor mats and stereo speakers ($350ish).
Discussion: I see a few options: 1- just do the maintenance and ride it till the lug nuts fall off; 2- Sink $5K in it and really jazz up my old rig; 3- Sell it for something else
Pros and Cons: #1: Pro- its paid for and I take this rig deep into the heart of the great NW. Engine tune quiets the valve down for 5~10K miles. Con- Do I trust it? I got real nervous last time out in E. Oregon (middle of nowhere, valve starts tapping L-O-U-D)
#2: Pro- making nice aftermarket bits for ZJ, cheaper than new car payment, I believe this rig has development potential.
Con- Throwing away good money? No matter what tuner parts go on it, it is still a high mile rig. What will break next?
#3: Pro- lots of choices from SUV to 4x4 pickup. New Tundra attractive for reliability perception (sick of American car niggles).
Cons- Car payments, again (sigh). Hassle of selling my rig.
So, please share your thoughts on why to Keep (#1&2) or Leap (#3).
My opinion on the preceding four messages:
1. rea98d, your '78 Mercury Marquis is definitely not worth fixing from a future cost of operation standpoint. Suggestion: Go into Edmunds News and Views topics and look up the topic about emotional attachment to your car - can't stand to get rid of it. You'll identify with most of the messages and enjoy reading them. Question: how many miles on the old Merc?
2. kcmogal, Your mechanic is right. Fix your Sentra and drive it.
3. kayblock, your Nissan 240 probably has a lot more miles left in it than you may realize, but if you can afford a Cadillac you won't be happy with the old 240. Trade it and move up to the Cadillac.
4. jc211, I'd go with option #1 and put the monthly payments that would be required for a new car into a savings account. This way when the '93 Grand Cherokee finally dies you'll either have smaller car payments or, if enough time elapses, you'll be in a position to pay cash for your next vehicle. I personally wouldn't choose option #2, but that would be an emotional choice, not an economic one, and you're the only one that can make that call.
In each of the four cases above, please let us know what you do.
I'd go with option number 2 if I were you. Soulds like overall, you've got a pretty good vehicle. Spruce her up a bit, and in my opinion you'll get more outta your 5G's than option number 1, and you'll have a vehicle you're proud of. I'd take mminerbi's advice and put the car payments into savings. You pay more for interest on a car these days than you realize (sometimes by the time its paid for, interest can equal or exceed the principle).
mminerbi,
The old Merc has about 124,000 miles on it, which isn't a whole lot for a car that's nearly 22 years old. Still, it's a pretty good car, and I think if I took what I would spend fixing it up and applied to a new car, I'd end up in a Geo or something like that. It's also not my sole source of transportation (I have a 95 Thunderchicken as well.) Right now the Mercury is in storage, but I think eventually, I'll do the eceonomically dumb thing, and fix her up again. Instead of car payments on a Geo, I'll fix things here and there and have her running in no time. I did check out the "emotional attachment" conference. You were right, thouroughly enjoyed it. Lets me know I'm not the only lunatic on the planet.
The engine is running great at about 116,000 miles, just put in a new water pump and fan, had new exhaust done in the spring. It also has well-known early Explorer rocker-panel rust syndrome. I hate to give up on this strong-runner just for rust. Any suggestions?