Lease Questions - Ask Here

primealpha · August 2004

I currently have a Chevy Tahoe with 11 months left on the lease I am leasing a new Cadillac Escalade and the dealership I am leasing that from said that they can pay off the balance of the Tahoe lease and roll the amount into the payments for the escalade. what are the pitfalls and if they are paying the balance of the lease of (5500.00) will I then be able to keep the tahoe for the 11 months and then still turn it in?

pizza · August 2004

Hey, my wife loves the newer altimas and I was wondering what you thought of a 39k Mile 39 Month lease on a 2005 Altima 2.5 S with $2684 out of pocket and $198-$211/month with a residual of $11,269 and a $300 purchase option.

mazdax605 · August 2004

Car_man can tell you better,but I think the incentives are the same.The only thing that may have changed is there was $750 dealer incentive(included in the $4250) that I think is earned by each individual dealer by the month.The one you go to may or may not have earned it yet for august.

I got my car on tuesday after signing the papers on monday.The salesman said that monday was the last day they could offer the $750 until they earned it again for august(if they do at all).

I got my car(04 RX-8 base 6 speed)for invoice minus the $4250 on a 2 year 12k a year lease.Oh yeah the $4250 was only on a 2 year lease using Mazdas captive financing.The money factor is pretty high(equals 7.4%),but mazda made up for it with the incentives.Residuals are 65% for 6 speeds on a 2 year lease,and I think 62% on autos for a 2 year term.My payments are a smidge over $300 for the lease.Good luck.

Chris

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Welcome to the wonderful world of leasing, viggie. Since you have never leased before, I suggest that you check out the two following articles that are available here at Edmunds.com: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment. They are very informative and will give you a great understand of how leasing works. You should be able to calculate a sample lease payment on the truck that you are interested in by using the formula that is outlined in the second article. To do so, you will need to know this model's full MSRP and selling price. You will also need to know this car's lease money factor and residual value. I can help you out there when you are ready.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

I would be more than happy to help you out, lponz7. You're in luck, Lexus does not usually provide any sort of lease support on the RX 330, but it is running its "Golden Opportunity Sales Event" this month and actually does have a little support on this model. If you were to lease a 2004 Lexus RX 330 4WD without the rear entertainment system or navigation options through Lexus Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00175 and 55%, respectively. An otherwise identical 4 year lease would have a base factor and residual of .00175 and 46%. I believe that LFS' base lease acquisition fee is currently $600 in every state but New York and Rhode Island.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hi blackhat. Consumers can trade in their leased vehicles prior to the scheduled end of their lease, if they purchase their leased car or truck from the bank that they are leasing it through. The dealer that you are purchasing your next vehicle from can often facilitate this sort of transaction. Unfortunately, there is a good chance that you current leased vehicle will be worth less as a trade than it will cost to purchase. In order to find out exactly how much money it will cost you to buy your leased car or truck, you need to place a call to the bank that you are leasing it through. The dealership that you originally leased your vehicle through has absolutely nothing to do with this transaction. Keep in mind that there is a good chance that this bank is going to want you to make the remaining lease payments, or at least a significant number of them, that you are obligated to pay them, in addition to the purchase price of your vehicle. If it would indeed be more expensive for you to purchase your leased vehicle than it is currently worth, you will have to pay the difference out of your own pocket, or roll your negative equity into your next loan of lease. The latter is never a good idea because it just perpetuates the cycle of being upside down. Your least expensive option is to continue driving your leased vehicle until you are much closer to the scheduled end of your lease.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hi diamond345. Consumers occasionally are able to trade in their leased vehicles near the scheduled end of their terms and actually come out ahead. You can always place a call to American Honda Finance Corp., or whichever bank you are currently leasing your Accord through to see how much money it would cost you to buy your car and the end of its term and then compare that figure with a couple of trade-in quotes from dealers. However, I would say that 99.99% of the time, consumers are better off just turning in their leased car or truck and walking away from it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

I should be able to put you on the right track, Dima. We can figure out an approximate lease payment on a Honda Pilot equipped any way that you want using the formula that is outlined in the following article: Calculate Your Own Lease Payment. Since you already know the MSRP and an approximate selling price for this truck, the only pieces of information that we are missing are American Honda Finance Corp.'s current lease money factor and residual value for it. I have not seen Honda's August lease program for this model yet, but I suspect that I will have an opportunity to find out what it is like within the next couple of days. Please post a quick reminder for me in this discussion then and I will tell you what I have been able to find out about these two numbers. Talk to you soon.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

You're welcome, jaa37. Most banks allow consumers to lease vehicles with 10,000, 12,000, or 15,000 miles per year, which ever allowance they need. The higher your mileage allowance it, the higher your lease payment will be. Talk to you in a few days.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

I am sorry to hear about your financial troubles, rickatnyc. While I am sure that some dealers have better relationships with banks than others, ultimately the decision about whether to finance you or not is up to the bank that you are applying with, not the dealership that you are getting your vehicle from. If I was in your situation, I would shop around for an inexpensive used vehicle. You want to finance as little money as possible because if you do get approved, you are going to have a very high interest rate. The more money you can save up for a down payment the better.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

The person who derives the biggest benefit from you trading in your leased vehicle over a year prior to the scheduled end of your lease is the salesperson that you are working with because they get to pocket another commission check. Consumers can trade in their leased vehicles prior to the scheduled end of their lease, if they purchase their leased car or truck from the bank that they are leasing it through. The dealer that you are purchasing your next vehicle from can often facilitate this sort of transaction. Unfortunately, there is a good chance that you current leased vehicle will be worth less as a trade than it will cost to purchase. In order to find out exactly how much money it will cost you to buy your leased car or truck, you need to place a call to the bank that you are leasing it through. The dealership that you originally leased your vehicle through has absolutely nothing to do with this transaction. Keep in mind that there is a good chance that this bank is going to want you to make the remaining lease payments, or at least a significant number of them, that you are obligated to pay them, in addition to the purchase price of your vehicle. If it would indeed be more expensive for you to purchase your leased vehicle than it is currently worth, you will have to pay the difference out of your own pocket, or roll your negative equity into your next loan of lease. The latter is never a good idea because it just perpetuates the cycle of being upside down. Your least expensive option is to continue driving your leased vehicle until you are much closer to the scheduled end of your lease.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

I sure do, max63, and I would be more than happy to share them with you. When BMW Financial Services published its lease program last month, its 3 year, 12,000 miles per base lease money factor and residual value for the 2004 745i were .00100 and 57%, respectively. I wouldn't lease this car for 48 months if I was in your situation because BMW's lease support is only available for leases of up to 42 month in length. If you opt to go with a 42 month lease, the base money factor and residual value should be .00100 and 52%. When they were published, these programs were scheduled to run through August 31st. However, BMW had a pretty poor July, sales-wise. I am in the process of trying to find out if it has made any enhancements to its lease program for August in an effort to boost its sales. It is unlikely that this is the case, but it is possible. I have heard that part of the reason why BMW was off in July is because it had a problem with the 8-cylinder engines in a number of its vehicles and they had to be held at the port. So it might not actually have to enhance its lease program, but just improve its inventory situation. Feel free to check back with me in a few days and I will let you know if there has been any changes to this car's lease program.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hey kyfdx. I am not positive, but I believe that BMW Financial Services' 36 month lease program for the 2004 X3 may be used on 39 month leases. I believe that I mentioned the details of this model's 36 month lease program earlier, but let me know if you need this info. If you are in the market for an X3 this month, you may want to consider financing it. BMW is offering 1.9% financing on it for up to 5 years. Of course, most BMW dealers are advertising 2.9% and pocketing the back-end profit from the 1% mark-up, but you should be able to get them to give you the 1.9% if you haggle with them.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Thanks for the reminder, hcagan. I am sorry to say that I still haven't seen the details of the lease program that you are looking for yet. I am probably going to need another couple of days. Check back with me then. Thanks.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Greetings Simon K. New York residents should be able to lease a 2004 Pilot for either 36 or 39 months, whichever term they prefer. I would be more than happy to try to give you an idea of what the details of this truck's August lease program are like, but I have not seen them yet. I suspect that I will have an opportunity to check them out within the next couple of days. Please feel free to check back with me then and I will be more than happy to fill you in on what I have been able to find out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Jaa37, Volvo's cash incentives on the 2004 XC70 have indeed only been available on cash purchases and on Volvo Finance finance contracts. They usually are not compatible with Volvo's special lease program because Volvo already provides a ton of support on leases of its vehicles in the form of extremely low lease money factors. As I mentioned earlier, this wagon's program may have recently changed, but the last time that I saw its lease program, Volvo Finance's base lease money factors on it were between .00028 and .00045. This is equivalent to interest rates of between 0.67% and 1%, which are incredibly low. It would be too expensive for Volvo to allow these unbelievably low rates to be used in conjunction with its cash incentives. This is why these two programs are not compatible.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Ksharma01, BMW's current lease program is different than Volvos in that its dealer cash may be used on BMW Financial Services leases. Part of the reason for this is that BMW's lease money factors are much higher than Volvo's are.

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need4speed · August 2004

Dear Lease Expert,
I currently own a 1998 Oldsmobile, Intrigue. It is a really great car but the gas is just killing me. So I have been looking for a new smaller car. I am really interested in the MINI cooper or the new tc by Scion or even the Mazda 3. I like the new beetle also but I heard it has lots of problems. The main problem is I want to lease and I never leased before. Some people tell me it is a scam some people tell me it is good. Some tell me that I will have to pay money when I return the car and some people say no. So I really do not know what to do. I do not want to ask the dealers because I know they will sweet talk to me into a car and I dont want that. Carmax told me they would buy my car for about $4000 so I thought I would put that into a downpayment for a lease but I do not know what is a good lease program. So can you please give me some advice.

amy · August 2004

Car Man-

My husband and I just leased a Volvo S40 this past weekend, and I wanted to check and see if you think we got a good deal. The car is the 2004.5 S40 T5, with moonroof, climate package; window tinting and clear-coat protection.

MSRP = $30,950
Cap Cost = $27,283
Rent Charge = $3,348
Sales Tax = 7.2%
Taxes & Fees = $1300
Down Payment = 0
Security Deposit = 0
Lease Terms = 48 months; 12,000 miles/year
Residual Value = $12,579
Monthly Payment = $400

I will say, I LOVE the car. Your thoughts?

g17 · August 2004

Hey car_man...I'm just checking back with you to see if you've seen August numbers for Mercedes yet....if not, just let me know and I'll get back to you again in a few more days....here's my original post:

I'm looking at a 2004 Mercedes CLK 320; I heard they have good residuals, and therefore make an OK lease.

Details:

MSRP: 49,290
Price: 46,200

Options:
Appearance pkg
Htd Seats
CD CHanger
Sunroof pkg

can you give me the residuals and money factor for 36 or 39 months with 15k mi/yr assume $0 down except the necessary payments. What would be a ballpark monthly payment? NJ tax is 6%

Thanks in advance as always...

rroyce10 · August 2004

...... Good questions, lets see if any of this will make sense to you ....

            "IF" this is really a fuel economy thing, then scratch the Mini off the list, they get a "about" the some mileage as the Intrigue, plus you won't have to use premium .. Scion is a nice vehicle, but expensive for what you get and I "don't think" they have any lease deals .. all in, the Mazda would be the better choice, but it ain't my money ..

             As far as leasing itself, N-E-V-E-R drop more than the first and last payment, maybe about a "ghee whiz" or so out of your pocket - $4,000 .? .. thats a Ton of money for a rental car and you will *never* ever see it again, no advantage at all, except it lowers the payment -only- not the residual, not the buy-out and not your dry cleaning bill .. you might as well send your money to the Pee Wee Herman fan club ....... if you haven't purchased/leased a vehicle since 98, then perhaps a purchase is the way to go.

                The Old's .? .. depending on the condition and miles, it's "seems" like a fair price ... me personally, I would send it down Retail Rd and probably see $5,500ish for it and go from there ....... Always buy and drive what YOU like, but always do it for the right reasons .......................

Terry.

blackhat · August 2004

Thanks for the response Car_man!

So, you'd recommend that I find out from the bank how much it would cost me to buy the car NOW.... so that it would be mine to re-sell privately, use as a trade-in, etc...... So long as it would be worth it to me to do so?

I was approached by the bank to buy-out the lease early a while back. I looked into it, and it was an absolute joke what they were offering me! I'd have had to keep making payments on this vehicle for another 5 years(!)... and the payments weren't even much lower than what I'm paying now.

I will never - EVER lease another car again. I didn't even inted to lease this one. Conned by a high-pressure sales team.

Thanks again!

fish8 · August 2004

I am just curious: What is a rent charge?

amy · August 2004

As far as I understand it, the rent charge has to do with the money factor. Other costs do get added by the dealer, though, so I'm not sure how it's broken down.

kyfdx · August 2004

The rent charge on a lease is the finance portion of the lease payment (aka: interest).

regards,
kyfdx

ctorrey · August 2004

C-Man,

I noticed that on a previous posting for someone interested in leasing a BMW 330i, you mention that BMW is offering generous support. Is this true for the 330Ci convertible as well?

Thanx!

kyfdx · August 2004

No incentives on the convertible...

jeffg · August 2004

Car-man: Using the example of the Acura RL that can be leased for $499 per month, and there is now $3500 incentive to buy the car, what difference does it make what the final price of the car is? It seems the terms are already set (36 mos, 12k mi/year, $499/mo.), the final price of the car doesn't matter. Thanks!

rickatnyc · August 2004

Thanks Car Man
I prefer not to purchase a used vehicle because I feel more comfortable with the security of being within warranty on a Lease vehicle.
I can easily afford about $300.00 or so per month and am looking into the Toyota Forerunner or the Toyota Tacoma.
Is it realistic that I will be able to Lease one of these vehicles? Is there an advantage to Leasing for (2) years or is (3) years the standard? Nissan only offered me a 39 month lease on the last Pathfinder I had; however, the previous leased Pathfinder I had was on a 36 month lease. Previous to that, I had leased a Kia Sportage for 24 months. All payments on all the previous leases were made on time. My credit score was about 780 until the unfortunate bankruptcy this year. I ran a report yesterday and my score is down to about 550.
Thanks and regards.

rroyce10 · August 2004

....... It's unfortunate about the BK .. but the reality is, no leasing company will touch a bankruptcy, especially when it's just been charged off ..

             The best thing you can have right now is a "sizable downpayment" .. your going to need to "buy" yourself back into the credit community and lenders will want to be Waaay back of book, meaning, if you don't/can't make your payments in the next 12/15 months they're not sucking air at the auction for $4,0/$5,000 ...

             The other thing is going to be a lender, most lenders don't want to touch a BK, so maybe you have a very close "personal" connection at the local Credit union or a bank .. if that doesn't work out, you need to look for a dealer that is a "volume" dealer, a dealer that sells large numbers, probably a big Ford or Chevy dealer that is multi-sourced and has a finance person that deals with credit problems, most volume dealers have alot more horsepower with the lenders than the Honda store down the street .. now, don't get your feelings hurt if you see a big interest rate, your risk is high and so will be the rate ...

                  Good luck ....

                        Terry.

ponytrekker · August 2004

A lot of lenders won't touch a lease w someone who is not "A" paper. Honda, Toyota (the finance companies, not the dealers) won't even look at your application. You might have better luck getting approved with a nonprime lender, such as people first or capital one, but get prepared to pay 11-14% interest, at best.

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

I would be more than happy to help you out, keitarou. If you were to lease a 2004 Acura TSX without navigation through American Honda Finance Corp. in New York this month for 2 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00295 and 64%, respectively. The money factor for an otherwise identical lease of an '04 TSX with navigation would be the same, but the residual value would fall to 61%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hey mzinzi. I believe that Mazda's lease program for the 2004 RX-8 is exactly the same in August as it was in July, including all of the lease cash that was available on it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hi primealpha. By rolling negative equity into your Cadillac lease you will end up paying much more than you normally would have to for your new truck. Financing negative equity hurts your bargaining power and is never a good idea. If the dealership that you are working with is paying off your current lease early, you are not going to be able to just keep you truck and continue to drive it for free. Your least expensive option would be to wait to get a new vehicle until you are closer to the scheduled end of your Tahoe lease.

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keitarou · August 2004

Carman,

Who qualifies for that base MF? is it everyone or just ppl with credit score over 760?

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hey Steve. Let's work up a couple of sample lease payments on the car that you are interested in. According to my calculation, if you were to lease a 2004 Volvo S60 2.4 with the Premium Package and an automatic transmission (MSRP: $32,190 / cap cost: $27,000) through Volvo Finance this month for 39 months with 12,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $258. They payment would be similar for both 42 and 48 month terms. Something definitely does not look right here. I think that the cap cost is a little on the low side. Perhaps it already takes a significant down payment into account or perhaps the dealers are using the dealer cash that Volvo is providing and running your lease through a different bank. Switching the above lease from 12,000 to 15,000 miles per year should only make a difference of around $15 per month.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hello pizza. The 2005 Altima is indeed a pretty nice car. Let me begin by saying that $2,684 out of pocket sounds a little high to me unless it includes tax. Consumers can and should lease any vehicle they are interested in without making any sort of down payment. You really only have to pay your vehicle's first month's payment, a security deposit that is equivalent to that payment rounded up to the nearest $25 or $50 increment, and your bank's lease acquisition fee at signing. I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment for you on the exact car that you are looking at. However, in order for me to do so, I need you to provide me with its full MSRP and selling price. It is important for you as a consumer to know the selling price of any vehicle that you are considering leasing anyhow. Keep in mind that the selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without this number it is difficult to tell what sort of deal you are getting. Let me know these figures and I will tell you what I think of this deal. Talk to you soon.

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keeferb · August 2004

Hi Car_man,

Looking for some more numbers from you...do you have the money factor and residual for:

2004 Trailblazer LS 4WD
36 month, 15k/yr

Can any of the current GM rebates be used? I live in WI if that makes any difference.

Thanks once again!

zman4 · August 2004

CARMAN, I HAVE BEEN NEGOTIATING A LEASE FOR THE ABOVE 3.0 LITER WITH CONVENIENCE PK AND PREM PK AND XENON HEADLIGHTS.HERE ARE THE NUMBERS:MSRP=45045
CAP COST=38815
ADDED FOR TRADE PAYOFF=2000
ADJUST CAP COST=40815
RESIDUAL=26126
MONEY FACTOR=.00190
TERM=36 MON.
SALES TAX IN MD IS 5 %
NO MONEY DOWN
WHAT SHOULD THE PAYMENT BE AND IS THE MONEY FACTOR FAIR, WHAT SHOULD BE THE DOWN AMOUNTS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR A PROMPT RESPONSE, ZMAN4

blackhat · August 2004

Hello, again, Car_man.

Thanks for your response to my previous question. I wanted to get more specific this time with the details of my lease, as I woud like you to either confirm or refute the suspicions I've had ever since I signed my lease.

In June '00, the PT Cruiser was HOT. Dealers in So. Cal. were soaking consumers something awful. I was unfortunate enough to find myself dealing with one of these dealerships. I had just moved and needed a car ASAP... and had hoped to get a PT.

Long story short: Wanted to buy, couldn't afford to buy outrageously marked-up vehicle, headed to the door to leave, was chased to the door, had every trick in the car sales book - including some new ones, I'm sure - thrown at me.... and before I knew it, they'd convinced me just long enough to sign a lease. The money I had intended to finance was buried in the lease, and it was/is gone good-bye.

My lease is up in a little less than a year. I called my bank, and the pay-off figure is higher than the Kelley Blue Book value. I can't imagine that changing in 10 months and 10K miles later....???

The Cap reduction cost of this vehicle is around $9500.00... "residual" value is around $8,500.00. But, my down-payment, I am told, was not really a "down-payment" at all - as I thought it was being used for. Instead, it was simply used to lower my monthly payments.

I have no equity is this vehicle - correct? So, when the lease expires, I turn in the vehicle and am 1.) out a car, and 2.) all my money I used, for what I thought was a down payment, has no bearing on matters. Is this correct? I mean, I can't really use a car that I won't even own next year as a "trade-in", right? What will I be told should I take this car in to the dealership I am hoping to BUY my next car from next year?

Am I in a lose-lose situation? Should I unload this car now or wait? Waiting 'til the lease is up won't be of much benefit to me, will it?

Thanks a lot.

blackhat

trigger · August 2004

Car_man, would you be able to give me the residual info, money factor and lease pmt on a 2004 BMW M3?

MSRP: 52500
Mi/yr: 15k
Sale: 51500
Term: 48mos

Thanks!

copper · August 2004

Thats what a lease is. You're basically "renting" the car. There is no equity.

blackhat · August 2004

hi, copper...

And so they legally stole my money 4 years ago without explaining to me that, once the term was up, my money was gone and I would not see any of it again, right?

307web · August 2004

It is similar to a long term rental that you cannot cancel early.
If you rented a car from Avis for 3 months, you could not "trade it in" to a dealership since it is not your car to trade in.
You could buy the car from them at it's current used value and keep it or you can turn it in and get a different car.

blackhat · August 2004

I can turn it in to the dealership I leased the vehicle from, only, and get a different car?

Well, I won't want any Chrysler cars available in '05... and, even if I DID want a Chrysler next year, I'd not deal with those crooks ever again. They won't make another dime off me.

If I sell it, I doubt I'll get the price I'd need to break even with it. Kelly Blue Book value is lower than the pay-off price I was quoted... and will be, I am sure, next year.

Thanks for your replies and info.

307web · August 2004

You can turn it in after you pay the leasing company all the money promised to them in the contract. You can then get another car from anywhere you want.
It doesn't matter where you turn the car in as long as the leasing company somehow gets the money owed to them when it's turned in.
It will be much simpler if you just take it back to the orginal selling dealer though.

blackhat · August 2004

... so, I can walk away from it empty-handed, and they can turn around and sell it used and make even more money.

If that's the case, I'll sell it privately after paying off the bank.... and whatever comes of that transaction will have to do.

rroyce10 · August 2004

** ... so, I can walk away from it empty-handed **

Yep, leases are kinda like a Holiday Inn .. you don't own the hotel, you just rent by the night, pretty simple ...........

Terry.

blackhat · August 2004

Fool me once, shame on them...... this kind of thing will never happen to me again.

There was no consumer protection in place that could have gotten me out of this rotten scam deal. Cali has no "cooling off period" for leases... so I found out too late.

keitarou · August 2004

Is there a place where there is a list of cars that has special lease MF's available? Some MF's that dealers quote are crazy....

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