Check Engine light

cata · February 2005

In addition to the Check Engine Light, the codes came up: P0201, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304.

The mechanic replaced the four injector wires, which had "broken locks & were not fully seated".

The Check Engine Light sensor was reset. Approximately 40 miles later, a puff of gas was smelled, and the Check Engine Light came back on.

Now they say we need a Powertrain Control Module (expensive). Should the module have been replaced first? Does this sound logical?

Thank you!!

amyu · February 2005

I, too have a Saab story, however mine is a saga. My check engine light has come on intermittantly for a yeaer now. My mechanic says he cannot find anything wrong with the car..1997 Saab convt.900. The code is 1124...I suspect the Oxygen Sensor but cannot confirm. Also, liked your Low Coolant idea...flushed and topped all...light on this AM. Can anyone confirm the code 1124?

amyu · February 2005

alcan · February 2005

It might be a SAAB specific code, but the generic OBD II P1124 code is Throttle Position Sensor Out Of Self Test Range
http://www.troublecodes.net/OBD2/Pcodes.shtml#1000

newtoboard · February 2005

I just got my 99 Mazda back from the dealer for my 60K service change. On top of the service I had my CEL light looked at. They diagnosed my CEL light coming on as having the same problem as you (see my other posts for the P1450 CEL code - same thing). It turns out that the root cause of the 171 (1450) code was a leaky intake manifold that was changed. However, after everything was said and done and the intake manifold and gaskets were changed, it turns out that there was another code that was coming up - P1350. The dealer left it alone thinking that changing the gaskets and manifold would do the trick, but apparently it didn't. My questions is, does anyone know what this code means and how costly it is going to be to fix it? I'm taking it back tomorrow, so any advance prepartion for my wallet would be appreciated. I live in NY, so I'll just take a rough estimate if anyone has one.

Thanks

fishing1000 · February 2005

the service engine soon light in my car is on. I do not experience any driveability problems. What can be wrong with the car. How can I turn it off?

alcan · February 2005

The engine control computer has detected an out of range signal from one of it's monitored sensor circuits. Have AutoZone retrieve the stored diagnostic trouble code numbers (no charge) and post them.

fishing1000 · February 2005

they gave me:
P0190 - fuel rail pressure sensor circuit malfunction
P0193 - fuel rail pressure sensor circuit high input.

These things occured after the timing belt was not properly installed.

fishing1000 · February 2005

Does the most likely mean that the sensor is busted?

alcan · February 2005

Which engine does it have?

fishing1000 · February 2005

2.0 L I believe. One can read the text 'SLPIT PORT INDUCTION 2000' on the engine.

alcan · February 2005

Usually, fuel pressure regulators go faulty because the internal diaphragm splits. Easy to check by removing the vacuum hose and inspecting for the presence of gas. If so, replacement's easy:

2.0L Engines

Properly relieve the fuel system pressure.
Disconnect the negative battery cable.
Disconnect the vacuum hose from the fuel pressure regulator.
Unfasten the two fuel pressure regulator retaining bolts.
Remove the fuel pressure regulator and the O-rings. Discard the O-rings.

To install:
Lubricate the new O-rings with a light engine oil.
Position new O-rings onto the fuel pressure regulator.
Place the fuel pressure regulator into position and install the retainers. Tighten the retainers to 27-40 inch lbs. (3-4 Nm).
Connect the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator.
Connect the negative battery cable.
Run the engine at idle for 2 minutes, then turn the engine OFF and check for fuel leaks and proper operation.

fishing1000 · February 2005

Al,

Are you saying that the regulator should be replaced and not the sensor?
Thanks,

TP

fishing1000 · February 2005

Al,
Do I have to have it checked out and if needed fixed immediately.

escorter · February 2005

Hi,
I own a Ford Escort LX 1996 2Door 1.9L engine manual shift car.

It has a salvaged title and the true mileage is not known.

I have had it for the past 1-year/8,000 miles. The previous owner had had it for 3.5 years/25,000 miles.

I estimate the true mileage to be around 75-80,000 miles. So, I decided to change the timing belt last weekend. The mechanic also advised me to change the radiator as there was some coolant leak and the hoses were getting soft(?). I agreed. Including an oil change I spent about 540$.

Less than 1-day/50 miles after I got the works done, the "Check Engine" light on my car OBD (On-Board Diagnostic) is glowing.

I took it back to the mechanic. He plugged it in to the computer and said I need to change the "Evap ..." stuff. He said that these are electrical parts costing about $55.95 and $25.95 each and that he can fix them without billing me any labor charge. Still he couldn't guarantee that that was the real problem. He says, "That is what the computer says. After we fix the 'Evap..', the computer might find fault with some other thing. I can't guarantee anything."

He also turned off the OBD light and said, "I have turned it off, but it is sure to come back on in a couple of days". And it did come back on the next day itself.

I don't know if there could be something wrong with the timing belt replacement, or the radiator replacement, or really the "Evap..." parts. I feel so sorry that a preventive maintenance has lead to so much problems.

Do you people have any advice on how to handle this problem?

Thanks in advance.

escorter · February 2005

I also seem to have similar problems of "check engine" light going on after changing the timing belt. See msg. 1084. Equally clueless. Just sharing my frustration.

fishing1000 · February 2005

Al,
The 99 escorts do not have a regulator, instead they have a fuel pressure sensor, which maintains fuel pressure based on intake manifold vacuum (from autozone repair guide). No auto parts store seems to sell this except ford dealers. The autozone repair guide only mentions about the replacement of the O-rings, not the whole sensor.

TP

0patience · February 2005

According to Ford's info,
Fuel Pressure Regulator Part # F4TZ9C968B or F4SZ-9C968-A is specified for 1999 Ford Escort L4-122 2.0L SOHC VIN P SFI
While some catalogs do refer to it as a fuel pressure sensor, it is still listed by Ford as the regulator.
All in all, they are the same thing.
Autozone may call it a fuel pressure sensor, but Alldata and Ford still list it as the fuel pressure regulator.

Also, Standard lists it as a fuel pressure regulator Part # PR162 F4SZ-A and it is $40-$60
NAPA lists it as Echlin Fuel System Fuel Pressure Regulator Part # CRB219617 for $68

fishing1000 · February 2005

Part PR162 F4SZ-A is used for model years 1997 and 1998. Not for 1999 escorts. I have gone to autozone and they compared the regulator they have against the sensor my car has and they are different. The sensor has an electrical connector on it, while the regulator does not.

mrd · February 2005

I have a 1998 suzuki esteem 1.6 liter engine with 146,000 miles check engine light came on, hesitates on acceleration, feels like its choking when you give it gas, especially going up hill. Could this be the O2 sensor? Thanks for any help you can give.

0patience · February 2005

The ford number came directly from Ford's OASIS system. The standard number came from a cross referance from the ford number, as did the NAPA number.
I'm not going to get into an argument with you about it. Think what you want. All I am doing is providing the info as it is supplied form the manufacturer.

If the standard number is wrong, then so be it, but the Ford number is right and it is called a regulator by them.
A sensor senses only the pressure, bu does nothing to adjust the pressure, while an electronic fuel pressure regulator will regulate the fuel pressure.

I'm not going to sit here and debate thte issue.

0patience · February 2005

Some folks would like you to believe that every time the check engine light comes on, it is the O2 sensor, when in reality, it often isn't. Or even if it is the O2 sensor, there is often an underlying cause to the sensor going bad.

First, without having it scanned and having the trouble codes, any guess would be just that, a guess.

Swing by Autozone or another parts store that will scan the vehicle for free. Then let us know what the trouble codes are. DO NOT replace anything, until you have done the diagnosis.

fishing1000 · February 2005

I am not argueing at all. I am going to check on the vacumm suction and the fuel pressure. If both are OK, then most likely the sensing part (not the regulation part) of the sensor is not working.

Thanks anyway.

Out of autozone repair guide:
Fuel Pressure Sensor
Ford Escort/Tracer 1991-1999 Repair Guide

REMOVAL & INSTALLATION

1998-99 2.0L Engines

See Figure 1

1998-99 models do not utilize a conventional fuel pressure regulator. Instead, they contain a fuel pressure sensor, which maintains fuel pressure based on intake manifold vacuum.

1.Properly relieve the fuel system pressure.
2.Disconnect the negative battery cable.
3.Remove air cleaner outlet tube.
4.Unplug the sensor electrical connection.
5. Disconnect the vacuum hose from the sensor.
6. Unfasten the sensor retaining screws and remove the sensor.
7. Inspect the sensor O-rings and replace them as necessary.
To install:

8. Lubricate the new O-rings with a light engine oil
9. Install the O-rings on the sensor and place the sensor into position.
10. Install the sensor retaining screws and tighten them to 27-40 inch lbs. (3-4 Nm).
11. Connect the vacuum hose to the sensor.
12. Attach the sensor electrical connection.
13. Connect the negative battery cable.
14. Run the engine at idle for 2 minutes, then turn the engine OFF and check for fuel leaks and proper operation.

Fig. 1: The fuel pressure sensor is located on the right-hand side of the fuel supply manifold (fuel rail)-1998-99 2.0L engines

0patience · February 2005

well, I guess AutoZone would know better than Ford does. They're the experts. LOL!

I have to tell you, it is funny. Alldata says one thing, AutoZone says another.
AutoZone owns Alldata and Alldata uses the information directly from the manufacturer.

Let me ask you, do you have access to Ford's OASIS information system? I do.
Do you have Alldata's information system or Mitchell's information system? Again, I do.
How long have you been a mechanic?
How much training have you had on these systems?
No need for me to answer the last 2.

fishing1000 · February 2005

I respect you very much. But you can go by the books only. What if not all the books are accurate. The autozone repair guide is not correct when it comes to describe how to relieve the fuel system on escorts 96-99. The description is only accurate for escort 96-98. If you have the Hayne repair manual for escort 1991-2000 or come accross an escort 99, you can see the sensor.

0patience · February 2005

But you can go by the books only.

Hmm, well not really. We'll agree to disagree and leave it at that. ; )

fishing1000 · February 2005

I have done all the tests now. Vacumm is 20 PSI and fuel pressure is around 30 PSI. However, the reference voltage is 5V and the fuel pressure voltage is also 5V and does not change at all on change of the pressure. I do not have technical data sheets to know the exact relation between the pressure and the voltage for the fuel pressure.

But since the pressure voltage is the same as the reference voltage and it does not change together with the pressure, can I conclude that it safe to conclude that the device regulates the fuel pressure properly but the part that measures the pressure is not working?

0patience · February 2005

No, it is not safe to assume that the sensor is the problem.
In order to confirm that it is the sensor portion of the regulator, you will need to hook up a scantool to see what values it is giving.
Also, in order to properly check the sensor, you will also need to disconnect the regulator electrical connector and jumper it and see what the scantool refrance voltage is.

This is where you need a manual that will give you the specific flowcharts for the P0190 & P0193.
I can tell you right now though, your fuel pressure is low, it should be 35-55 psi with the key on, engine off.

You need the flow charts to go step by step. If you replace the regulator sensor without doing the proper diagnosis, you are guessing and you could be wasting money on something that may not solve the problem. Then again, it might.
Because the fuel pressure is low, you either have a problem with the sensor portion of the regulator or the vacuum portion. The sensor should go from 5.0V to 0.2-0.5v throught the PCM and it requires a scantool to check it.
If the sensor isn't changing, then the vacuum portion may not be working properly.

Again, you need the diganostic/flow charts for the P codes to determine the problem.

fishing1000 · March 2005

It turned out that the problem was caused by the wire for the 'fuel pressure voltage') being cut 1/4 inch from the location it was connected to the connector's pin (Bad job by Ford, I think). After I fixed the wire by soldering the two ends together, the light stayed off.

Thanks to everyone.

damien590 · March 2005

Hi. I have a 01 chevy cavalier & went to get it
inspected & failed the emissions because of the
engine light is on. The p1870 code showed up
and I took it to the transmission techs and told
me that just to take it apart to see what's
wrong will coast $385.00 YIKES!!!!

I was planning on taking the car back to the
dealer to drive something more recent & wasn't
looking to spend alot of money. I was wondering
is there a certain way to fiddle with one of the
cables to get the freakin light turned off so
I can pass inspection??????

vinnybrutus · March 2005

I have a 2001 RAV4, and have had this same problem for the past 3 years. I was told that it was an emissions problem, but the full emmissions diagnostic said everything was OK. I had a complete tune up to no avail. I replaced the plugs with Bosch premium 4-contact platinum plugs, but still no help. Curiously, the only time the light went out on its own was a handful of times when it was raining outside. Have you had any more success with this problem? Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated!

wtd44 · March 2005

Some states, maybe all, that have emissions testing include a test to see if the light is working properly. You may be forced to find a lasting fix. Some states will let you operate your vehicle without passing if you meet certain criteria-- such as a certain amount or more documented as spent on trying to repair the vehicle to pass the test.

2002chevyman · March 2005

hi i have a 2002 silverado 1500 with a 4.3 v6 my check engine light is on and i had advance auto check it, they said my camshaft position sensor was bad can any one tell me what this does and how do i fix this, thank you in advance

0patience · March 2005

Number, what is the code number?
Descriptions do no good for diagnostics. We need the trouble code number.
Also, codes do not tell that a sensor is bad, so consider the source. They want to sell you parts.

Let us know what the trouble code number is and we can go from there.

0patience · March 2005

First, get the trouble codes that are turning on the light. Then start throwing parts at it.

Once we know what the trouble code NUMBERS are, we can start to help you figure out what to test.

Also, if the platinums are not the OEM plugs, then pull them, pitch them and put the correct OEM plugs in. All the aftermarket plugs will do is cause you headaches.

Let us know what trouble codes you get.

blap · March 2005

how do i clear the check engine light ,some vehicles if you disconnect the battery for a few minutes this works ,is it the same on a 200 tacoma 4wd

wtd44 · March 2005

If your efforts fail, just stop by a Toyota dealership and speak to the service/shop personnel. They can give you answers. Hopefully they won't restrict their answers to those that maximize their opportunity to generate revenue.

0patience · March 2005

According to Toyota's information, for the 2000 Toyota Tacoma.................

Clearing the DTC
The DTCs and freeze frame data will be erased by disconnecting the battery terminals or EFI fuse.

Understand that the Toyota is a rarity, most vehicles 95 & newer, it doesn't clear the trouble codes.

But you realize that the light will come back on if the problem isn't fixed?

cml17 · March 2005

HELP!!!! Bought a '01 Pathy 1 1/2 yrs ago. About 1 yr ago, the service engine soon light starting coming on intermittently. I'd start the car, it would be idling like crazy and the service engine soon light would come on (blinking). Then the idling would stop after about 5 minutes and sometimes the light would go off, usually it stayed on until I got it reset at the repair shop. Service guy says it gives the code o2 sensor, but doesn't see anything wrong. Last month it was running terribly, smoke coming out of exhaust pipe and smelled burning. Took it in, only running on 5 cylinders, so they fixed that and said the light shouldn't come on anymore. One week later, car starts idling like crazy when it is started and I'm back to where I started. Is this a common problem with "01 Pathys? Should I ignore it? Anyone else having this problem? Seems to start roughly and have the problem when my husband starts the car really 'quickly' instead of keeping the key turned for a second longer in the beginning.

alcan · March 2005

Have the stored trouble codes retrieved (AutoZone will do it no charge) and post them.

BTW, there are 36 different trouble codes relating to oxygen sensor circuits. None of them say to replace the sensor, they say there's a problem in the circuit. Mioght be the sensor, wiring, connections, fuse, etc, etc.

atrent · March 2005

I get a 171 code "lean left bank". I have been told that this is an O2 sensor. If that is the case how come I don't get an O2 sensor code?
alex

alcan · March 2005

P0171 = Fuel Trim System Lean (Bank 1)

The O2 sensor for the left bank has been sending a signal back to the PCM that it's bank is running lean. The PCM has added fuel to it's limit to try to compensate, then set a trouble code. The code does NOT say that the O2 sensor is defective. Start by looking for any vacuum hoses cracked or disconnected. Also check fuel pressure.

davesvan · March 2005

Check Engine Light is ON, 1998 Chevy Venture. OBD codes 452(Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor Circuit Low Voltage) and 1639(5 Volt Reference 2 Circuit). Before I drop the tank to get to the sensor, could it be the PCM? How is 1639 failure determined? Could the sensor be shorting out the reference? What should my approach be to troubleshooting this one?

knipper · April 2005

I have a 97 sable the "service engine light" is on. I hooked up an On Board Diagnostic to it - NO CODES SHOWED, can anyone help....Thank

tofc · April 2005

I have a 95 Sebring LXI and the "check engine" light comes one once a day on the interstate after about five minutes of driving. I've changed the EGR valve & Selonoid, plugs, plug wires, fuel filter, basically a full tune-up. I've checked and the EGR does get a vacuum. And the electrical leads, from what I can tell seem fine. The car runs great, I just can't keep the light off.
Fault code 32 reads as such: Short or open in the EGR solenoid circuit. Check for loose, broken, or shorted wire in the EGR valve wiring and connectors. Possible air fuel ratio imbalance not detected during diagnosis.
Any help is much appreciated.

faulkner1 · April 2005

Hi,
I have a 98 honda civic. The check engine line is on. I went to autozone and a code of p0505 signifying a idle system malfunction. when my car is in park the rpm goes up and down from 500-2000 rpm constatntly. If anyone can help thank you!

0patience · April 2005

NOTE: If DTC P1508 or P1509 is stored at the same time as DTC P0505, troubleshoot DTC P1508 or P1509 first, then recheck for DTC P0505.

Possible Causes
IAC valve mechanical malfunction
Throttle body clogged port, improper adjustment
Intake manifold gasket leakage
Intake air hose loose leakage
Vacuum leak
ECT sensor incorrect output
Throttle Position sensor incorrect output*1 *1 '96 models only.

jcxk91a · April 2005

Hello:

My check engine light comes on and I am getting the following codes:

P1275 - Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) Sensor 1 Circuit
P0171 - Fuel Trim System Lean Bank 1
P0172 - Fuel Trim System Rich Bank 1
P0174 - Fuel Trim System Lean Bank 2
P0175 - Fuel Trim System Rich Bank 2

When it is started cold it revs high then slows down and stalls. When I try to restart it stalls immediately unless I apply the accelerator. Everything seems to be OK when I am driving but when I let up on the accelerator and slow down it stalls. The Accelerator Pedal Position sensor and PCV valve have been replaced but have had no effect. When driving slowly after driving at high speeds I've noticed that the engine sometimes revs. What could be the problem? O2 sensors? Thanks.

alcan · April 2005

With both banks lean, look for a vacuum leak such as a crack in the ducting for the air intake, or a cracked or disconnected vacuum hose..

jcxk91a · April 2005

I listened to the engine and could hear the hissing sound of a vacuum leak but couldn't find any problems with the hoses. It sounded like it was coming from around the manifold. So I took it to the Isuzu dealer and they confirmed that it was a broken intake manifold gasket. This was covered under the powertrain warranty so it didn't cost anything. Otherwise it would have been $250. I also asked them if there was any other maintenance they could do in that area at the same time so they also cleaned the EGR tube. Thanks for your help.

Check Engine light

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