Lease Questions - Ask Here

jaa37 · August 2004

Carman,

The dealer is claiming that the difference between the purchase price (32,941) and the cap cost (37,000) is because of two incentives that do not apply to leases: the free premium package (which is approx. 2,400 MSRP, I think) and 2,000 cash to dealers. Does this seem fair?
Like I said, he's offered me $468 a month, with down payment of $722 (first month, tax on the $1,000 loyalty rebate because I'm in New York, and DMV fees). With a money factor of .00045 and a residual of 56%, should I be aiming for a lower payment?

briegel · August 2004

CarMan--you may have missed my post from yesterday: My daughter is interested in a 2004 Honda Accord EX 4-dr sedan with side-curtain air bags and AT. Could you tell me the MF and residual % for this car in Washington State for both 12,000 and 15,000 miles/year, and whether there are any incentives applicable to a lease of this vehicle, please? Thanks!

mfullmer · August 2004

Hey Car_Man. I have an '03 Tahoe that goes off lease in January, '05. I am getting my new Solara Convertible next week so I put the Tahoe on a couple of online sites. I have someone who wants it.

Do you know how it works? They are financing a part of it through their credit union. I've given GMAC permission to give the credit union the information they need. I'm not sure how this will work though...

mercanto · August 2004

I actually have a question about a sale rather than a lease. I have a car listed online and a potential buyer is asking for a copy of the title. Is this legitimate or is there something suspicious in this.
Thank you .

ali

blackhat · August 2004

Thanks, again, Car_man....

I have to write this one off as a very expensive lesson. But, y'know, I never intended to lease that day. I wanted to buy. I have always been against leasing. When it was apparent that I could not afford to buy, they made it sound like the lease was the way to go - to keep monthly payments down. They never bothered to mention anything about what happens to my $$$ at the end of the lease. Perhaps it was MY responsibilty to inquire into such things. But, since I was not planning to lease, I didn't have the proper questions prepared. I was conned, plain and simple. This will never happen to me again.

What they did was legal, but completely unethical... and their SHOULD be actions consumers can take under special circumstances, as the one I found myself in, where double-crossing and high-pressure is involved.

My next car will help make this PT Cruiser disaster easier to let go. I'm getting a Mini Cooper convertible... and I found an HONEST dealership that is not charging over sticker.

williee · August 2004

Carman,

Can you provide me the lease factor and residual value for a Lexus SC430 with:

Mileage factors of 12,000 and 15,000
Lease term: 24 and 36 months

Thanks,

williee

kts · August 2004

Do you have any tips for getting the bank to lower the buy out value on a 2001 VW Passat GLX 4 door sedan - 53k miles (already over mileage) with the engine light on (needs $1k in repairs - mechanics assures us it isn't hurting engine), and some carpet damage and headliner damage (cig burn)? Lease is up 9/30/04 and residual is $17.5-we would like to avoid the mile overage payment if the deal is good. Also, do we have to repair engine or can it be turned in the way it is if they aren't willing to deal on the buyout price?

cuco · August 2004

All,

I think that I know the answer to this but, I just want to make sure.

If a car has let's say an MSRP of $44000, but there is a manufacturer-to-dealer incentive of $4000, and the residual is 50%.

Is the residual amount 50% of 44000 or 50% of $40000?

Thanks,

Cuco

sunpro2003 · August 2004

Car Man-

Here's the numbers-Please review and let me know if this is a good deal.

Thanks for your help.
Sunpro
=========================================

2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo
MSRP-$30,695
Net CAP Cost-$21,824
Money Factor-.002070(4.97%)
Residual-$15,545
Lease Term-24 Months/15,000 miles per year
Base Monthly Payment-$320 plus 6% sales tax=$339 per month

Due at Signing
1st Months Payment-$339.
Bank Fee-795.
Documentary & Admin Fee-$326
NJ MV Fees-125.
Total Due at Signing-$1,585.
Total Cost of lease-$9,382
Excess Mileage Charge-20 Cents per mile

Also, I was told by the Jeep dealer that Chrysler Financial will not budge on the excess mileage charge of 20 cents. Does this sound accurate to you?

My current lease through Chrysler Financial only charges 15 cents per mile on excess miles.

bv73ms3 · August 2004

Hi Carman,

Thanks for all your help in the past. Now I really am set to get the Outback this month. Could you please tell me what are the residuals and MF for the 2005 Outback 2.5i Limited automatic on a 36 month lease with 10,000 miles. I live in Chicago. Is it possible to get a 33 or 34 month lease term? Can you calculate a lease payment on an MSRP of 29,000 and selling price (invoice) of $26,600.

thanks!

mfullmer · August 2004

Residual is a percentage of the MSRP - or $44,000 in this case.

crikkit · August 2004

CarMan (or anyone else who knows)

I have been looking at a couple of different cars to lease. One is the 2004 BMW 330i ($41170 MSRP with premium pkg, auto, xenon headlights). I want to lease for 36 months. I was told today that the MF on this is 54%. Is that right?

Also, the $2400 marketing support is still in effect ... is it possible to get the dealer to come down on MSRP much in addition to the marketing support to negotiate a better cap price? The TMV on Edmunds in my area right now for this car with those options is $37,625, about $100 below invoice. Is it completely unreasonable to go for that price AND the $2400 marketing support?

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Welcome to the world of leasing, larrym. Since you are new to leasing, I suggest that you check out the following article that is available here at Edmunds.com: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car. It contains a lot of information that you will find helpful. When leasing, I always advise consumers not to put any money down. I say so for two main reasons. The first is if your leased vehicle is stolen and never recovered or totaled in an accident during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second reason is that down payments on leases do nothing to reduce vehicles' lease-end purchase prices. So the lease-end purchase option price of your girlfriend's G35 would be exactly the same, regardless of whether she had put $4,000 down or had made no down payment at all. I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on the car that your girlfriend is considering for you, but in order for me to do so, I need you to supply me with its selling price. This is a very important number for you as a consumer to know anyhow because the selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable just as if you were paying cash for them.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

You're welcome, Wayne. The ideal solution to being upside down on your current lease would be to wait until you are closer to the scheduled end of your lease to get a new vehicle. If you are not inclined to do so, then you probably should pay for your negative equity out of your own pocket rather than rolling it into your next lease. By rolling it into your Z4 lease you will just have to pay interest on it. I believe that BMW Financial Services does include gap insurance in its leases, but I am not 100% positive that this is the case.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Thanks for the additional information, mitchs3. BMW's lease program for the 2004 330i is the same in August as it was in July. If you were to lease one through BMW Financial Services for 3 years with 10,000 miles per right now, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00150 and 57%, respectively. When negotiating your lease on this car remember that BMW is providing $2,400 dealer cash on it that may be used on BMW FS leases.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hi ctorrey. I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what General Motors' current lease program is like on this truck, but before I do so I need to tell you that GM's normal cash incentives can not be used in conjunction with GMAC leases. This will obviously have an impact upon the selling price that your friend is able to negotiate. Also, General Motors Acceptance Corp. publishes what are known as lease rates instead of money factors. You can convert its lease rates into approximate money factor equivalents by dividing them by 2400. GMAC's current 3 year 15,000 miles per base lease rate and residual value for a 2004 Chevrolet Tahoe are currently 5.5% and 55% in GM's Northeast region. Again, GM's normal cash incentives can not be used in conjunction with this lease program, but it is providing $750 lease cash in your area.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hi galant00. You should be able to get a good idea of what your car is currently worth by looking up its Edmunds.com True Market Value in the following section of this site: Used Cars. You also should stop by the following discussion that appears on the Smart Shoppers Message Board: Real-World Trade-In Values. One of our most knowledgeable community members, Terry, hangs out there and he is often kind enough to give others his opinion of their vehicles' values.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Your wish is my command, ch7656 (I thought that I would change my greeting up a little but, "Hi" and "Hello" were getting boring). According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2004 BMW 545i through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00210 and 58%, respectively. This car's 12,000 miles per year and 10,000 miles per year residuals would be 2% and 3% higher.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hello Joe. I believe that American Honda Finance Corp.'s current 36 and 39 month base lease money factor for the 2004 Honda Pilot in New York should be around .00242. I haven't seen its residual values recently, but the money factor is the model important part anyhow because residuals really aren't negotiable. Many consumers are not aware of the fact that late last month, Honda began offering $500 dealer cash on leases of the '04 Pilot. This cash will help you to negotiate a more attractive capitalized cost than you normally would have been able to.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

As they say over in the Real World Trade-In Values Discussion when consumers leave out important pieces of information, ksharma01, go to your room. Yes I think that I have finally gotten my computer all cleaned up Grrrrrrrrrr. Let's work up a sample lease payment on this car for you. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2004 BMW 330i (MSRP: $45,205 / cap cost: $39,955 - which I personally think is reasonable) through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $505. To arrive at this payment I used a money factor of .00150 and a residual value of 56%. The fact that we are at the end of the model year definitely does make this car's residual values lower than they were several months ago, but BMW is providing dealer cash and a relatively low money factor to help offset the lower residual values. There's nothing wrong with leasing now because BMW has a lot more support and dealers will be more willing to negotiate on the '04 330i at this time than than will be on the '05 when it first comes out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Greetings JoeSM. We certainly have been busy around here lately. I feel so loved...I guess. You don't think that I'm just being used do you

. Let's take a look at the current lease programs for the new cars that you are considering. The 3 year, 15,000 miles per, and 12,000 miles per base lease money factors and residual values for these models if you were to lease them through their captive finance companies are as follows: 2004 G35 Sedan - .00165 / 58% / 59%, 2004 Acura TL without navigation: .00260 (higher in NY) / 56% / 58%, and the 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero Sedan: .00034 / 46% / 47%. If you opt to go with the Saab, keep in mind that is has $3,000 lease cash available on it right now.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

I would be more than happy to work up a sample lease payment for you. Thanks for providing all of the necessary information in your post. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2004 BMW 330Ci with an MSRP of $43,545 and a selling price of $39,900 (nice car BTW) through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $475 or so. If you were to lease this car with only 12,000 miles per year, its payment would drop to around $452 or so.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hi Pavel K. Normally a Honda Civic would not have a higher lease payment than an Accord so something definitely does not seem right here. The Accord payment looks reasonable to me, but the Civic payment looks high. I would be more than happy to try to work up sample lease payments on these cars for you. However, in order for me to do so, I need you to tell me their full MSRPs and selling prices. Let me know and we'll see what sort of payments we come up with. Talk to you soon.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hi suburbman. General Motors' SmartBuy program is what is known in the industry as a balloon note. Balloon notes are essentially the same as leases in that they provide low monthly payments with an option to buy at the end of a specific period of time. The main difference with balloon notes are that the driver's name is on the title with a balloon note and the bank's name is on the title with a lease. As a result, taxes are usually higher on balloon notes. Balloon notes are becoming more popular, especially in states like New York where the vicarious liability laws scare banks, but they still are nowhere near as popular as leases. As such, I do not personally keep tabs on the details of manufacturers' balloon note programs. If was in your situation, I would not trade in my current truck on a balloon note of a new one. I would probably continue driving the Suburban that you have now for a few more years. If you do opt to go with a balloon note of a new Suburban, do not apply the proceeds of your trade in towards it, but instead have the dealer that you are working with cut you a check for your truck.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

I sure can, smd5. Here's the info that you're looking for. If you were to lease a 2004 Audi A8 through Audi Financial Services in New York right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00108 and 57%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease should be .00108 and 53%. If you opt to buy this car instead of lease it, Audi is providing $5,000 dealer cash on it in your area this month.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

The dealer that you spoke with is correct, jaa37. Volvo's dealer cash and free option package programs can not be used in conjunction with Volvo Finance leases. If the money factor that your dealer quoted you is the same as the one that I mentioned earlier, then the only thing that you can negotiate is this model's price. For more feedback on that, you may want to stop by the following discussion: Volvo XC70/V70: Prices Paid & Buying Experience.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Sorry if I missed your post, briegel. Things have been nuts around here lately. I believe that American Honda Finance Corp.'s current base lease money factor for the 2004 Accord EX is .00143 for 36 month leases in your state. The corresponding 3 year, 12,000 miles per residual value for an '04 Accord EX Sedan without navigation should currently be 54%. Its 12k resid for this term would be 56%. When negotiating your lease on this car, keep in mind that Honda has $500 dealer cash on '04 Accord Sedans this month.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hey mfullmer. Different banks have different procedures for the sale of leased vehicles. You really need to check directly with GMAC to see how you should proceed with the sale of your leased Tahoe.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

You're welcome, blackhat. The Mini Cooper Convertible is a neat little car. I think that you will really like it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Here you go, williee. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2004 Lexus SC430 through Lexus Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00175 and 55%, respectively. Its 12,000 miles per residual for this term would increase to 57%. Lexus is actually providing support on 36 to 48 month leases of this car this month, so it doesn't make sense to miss out on this support by doing a 2 year lease.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Cuco, vehicles' residual values are based upon a percentage of their full MSRPs including destination charges plus the MSRPs of any options that can be residualized.

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mitchs3 · August 2004

Thanks Carman, I am meeting with BMW dealer this am to go over my options as my lease ends. I still may buy my off lease 02-330i, though I loose tax advantage, as 40% of use is intraday business miles...Thanks for the "real number"..Mitchs3

suburbman · August 2004

Hi Carman,
Based on what I was reading that is the conclusion I was coming to. So, if I understand you correctly, I should have him not apply the trade in, but rather give me the check for it. THen I put that money in a separate account and use it to pay the bumped up monthly payment I will have as a result of not laying out the money up front, Is that right? Should the trade in value divided by the number of months on the lease come out to be the difference in my monthly payment?? The current offer is $540/mo and that includes putting the net $7000 (afterpaying off the note) on the trade-in. $7000/35 months is $200/month. SHould my new payment be $740/month?

hcagan · August 2004

Carman,

I am trying to finalize a lease on a 2004 Accord LX with AT. Could you please provide me with the current MF & residual for a 36 month 12K Lease in NY. I would appreciate if you can give me the numbers for both the 4cyl & V6. Thanks for your help

ichpokhudezh · August 2004

Hello, Car_man.
I thought that something has to be wrong...
[quote]I need you to tell me their full MSRPs and selling prices[/quote]
MSRP is 18550, I've been quoted 16600 + fees/taxes/tags (i leave in md, so tax is 5.5%, fess+tags are 310), mf at 0.00129, and residual 53%@12Kmi/year
I read that you recommend 0 cap reduction. What should my payments be in such scenario?

erocker · August 2004

I am planning on leasing a new BMW 325i, possibly today. Here is what I know:

MSRP 37195
Selling Price 33401
$2000 downpayment
$5000 negative equity on old car
36 month Lease
15K miles/year
Monthly payment $667.99
8.25 Sales tax (Los Angeles, CA)
Money Factor: 0.00255
Residual (my calculations show $19300

What is the best current Residual on this? Any other suggestions?

Please HELP!

uconsumer · August 2004

Carman,
Thanks for the numbers, but why is the MF of .00242 higher in NY,then .00208 I have seen for other states? Do the MF vary buy models, LX, EX, EX-L, etc..
Joe

briegel · August 2004

Thanks for the info Car_man...you certainly do provide great info to us!

ksharma01 · August 2004

Okay folks...
First, thanks to Car_man for providing the all important numbers, I will be going into the dealership to make the deal starting today... lets see how painless it is!

I do have a couple of questions:

MSRP is $45205
Cap Cost $39955
Cap cost includes $575 acquisition cost
36 mo, 12K

Lease:
Plugging in the numbers (MF = .00150 Residual = 57%)
I get a payment of $506 + 8.9% tax = $552 per month.

Now the questions:
What will I be expected to pay up front?
First month = Yes
Acquisition fee = Yes (included in cap cost)
Last month = ???
Security deposit = ???
GAP insurance = Is this included in BMW leases... if not what amount should I expect?

Wow... I know enough about leasing now (thanks to this forum) that I think I know what I am talking about... kinda scary!

Thanks!

kyfdx · August 2004

1) Using your figures, I get $495 +8.9%tax = $539.

2) upfront
1st month $539
No acquisition (its in cap cost)
security deposit $550
Gap is included
Title and Licensing fees.

Acquistion fee should be $525, unless its gone up recently, or they are marking it up.

You may have a disposition fee ($350?), but that is paid when you turn your car in, at the end of the lease.

regards,
kyfdx

P.S.: If I add the $525 Acq.fee on to your cap cost to come up with total cap cost of $40,480, I get numbers closer to yours.

jaa37 · August 2004

Hey Carman,

Thanks for all your help. Here's the best offer I've managed to field this week for an XC70 w/premium pkg, touring pkg, booster seats, alloy wheels in NYC (8.625% tax). Does this seem like a good deal, or should I try for a lower payment?

MF: .00045. Residual: 55% MSRP: $39,940. Lease cap cost: $36,514. Monthly payment: $467, with a down payment of $1,424 ($262 DMV fees, $695 acquisition fee, $467 first month).

Let me know. Thanks again!

kievlianin · August 2004

I am having a dilemma. I own a 99 Audi A4 for which I own $14,310.57 as of 8/11/04. I would like to lease a 04 Nissan Murano SL AWD
MSRP $37930
Invoice $34495
My price $33270 includes $1000 rebate from Nissan.

I am trying to trade my Audi in. I have been quoted prices anywhere from $8000 to $10000. Looks like I will be upside down in my trade at least $2300.

Does it make sense for me to lease a Murano or to purchase it. I have access to a credit line at 4%. If I were to lease, with the upside of $2300 added to the leased amount what are my options in terms of the lease?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am located in San Bruno, CA (Tax 8.25%).

vsaxena · August 2004

We were considering a lease on the BMW Z4 but decided not to. The sales and finance guy suggested that the GAP insurance will cover our down payment; i.e. we may get a check back from BMWFS if the car gets wrecked if we had put a significant down payment.

However when I read the BMWFS description of the GAP insurance, it says:

"If your BMW should be stolen or declared a total loss in an accident, there might be a difference between the amount your insurance company pays and the amount due on your lease. BMW Financial Services will pay this difference (minus your insurance deductible, the Disposition fee and all past due amounts you may owe). This is known as GAP Protection and is included in all BMW Financial Services leases."

From the wording here, I do not see any indication that the down payment gets refunded. Was there a misunderstanding here?

blackhat · August 2004

Hello, again, Car_man!

blackhat here once more....

So, I was reminded of something regarding selling a leased car, once the lease is up. If I sell it within 10 days of the lease expiration, the buyer would be responsible for the sales tax, yes?

This would, of course, require some perfect timing on my part - finding a buyer while my pay-off was not quite finalized, etc. But, as far as selling this vehicle, as opposed to turning it in, waiting 'til the bitter end and not jumping the gun would be the best shot I'd have at breaking even - or maybe pocketing a few bucks?

Continued thanks.
Blackhat

ksharma01 · August 2004

KYFDX,
Hmm... I can't seem to come up with the same number that you and CarWizard come up with! Which means I am wrong somewhere... (off by only 3 bucks, but still). I did see that I added some things wrong that puts my cap cost a little higher but even adjusting for that I don't add up.

So here are all the numbers if you are so inclinded to verify. This is a text output from my Excel sheet but I put my formulas in Parentheses.

Lease Calculator BMW 330i W/ Performance

MSRP $45,205.00
Invoice $41,355.00
Offer $41,855.00 (invoice + 500)
Dealer Cash $2,400.00-
Capitalized Cost $39,455.00
Dealer Acquisition Fee $525.00
NET Capitalized Cost $39,980.00

Lease Months 36.00
Residual Percentage 57%
Residual Value Per MSRP $25,766.85 (45205 * .057)
Depreciation Per NET CAP Cost $14,213.15 (39980 -25766.85)
Monthly Depreciation Amount $394.81 (14213.15 / 36)

NET CAP Cost Plus Residual $65,746.85 (39980 + 25766.85)
Money Factor 0.00150
Monthly Lease Fee $98.62 (65746.85 * 0.00150)
Monthly Base PMT + Fee Payment $493.43 (394.81 + 98.62)

Sales Tax Rate 8.90%
Total Monthly Payment $537.35 (493.43 + 8.9%)

Disposition Cost $350
Total Cost of Lease 19,694.43 ((537.35 * 36) + 350))

kyfdx · August 2004

I use a lease calculator on the web.. but, your method is correct, so it could just be rounding errors on either end... These last numbers you came up with are within $2/month of mine, so it sure looks like a good deal, if you can get it.

Your upfront payment should only be 1st payment, security deposit and title/licensing fees.. Good luck!!

vdubdude · August 2004

Did I get ripped off?

I bought a Toyota - had a toyota to trade in, it was a leased vehicle, I traded in early. I had called Bank One and got my own pay off quote, I told the dealer it was $12700. He told me the truck was worth $11,500. I said fine, I'd pay the difference. IN the meantime, BankOne withdrew a payment of $312. When I called about it, I found out the dealer only had to pay off $11,414. I guess the difference was the tax. He kept the difference for himself. I believe that's BS, he owes me that.

Do you agree? Do I have any recourse?

cuco · August 2004

vsaxena,

I'm going to be deciding this week on a 36-month, 10000 miles/year, either Z4 or Lexus SC430 deal.

I was wondering what kind of deal you were offered by BMW for the Z4.

Thanks,

Cuco

homer13 · August 2004

Question about a lease: My local Honda dealer has quoted us $225/mo on a 2 year lease on a loaded Odyssey EX with $3,000 down and my POS 98 Plymouth Voyager as a trade in, 15,000 miles per year allowed. The 3 year lease is $300/mo with the same down payment, the logic from them being that they want used cars in 2 years, so they are pricing aggressively.

I'm concerned about the high down payment, but compared to others, it seems like a good deal. This would be my first lease, and it's far more confusing than a purchase. Thoughts?

cuco · August 2004

Zman4,

If you check the www.bmwusa.com site, under "BMW Programs" for the Z4, they are offering 1.9%, 0.000792 money factor financing on a 36-month, $2000 down, 2004 2.5i or 3.0i, until 8/31/04.

How come your dealer would not offered this to you?

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