Lease Questions - Ask Here

cuco · August 2004

Try www.leaseguide.com or the information on leasing in Edmund.

homer13 · August 2004

I've been looking at that, but my head is spinning. My wife mentioned leasing right up front to the salesperson so we have no idea what kind of price he was basing it on or the money factor is. I know that puts us at somewhat of a disadvantage when it comes to negotiating.

I know Odysseys are highly rated and the Mazda and Ford minivans came back with higher prices, but they were just phone quotes, so who knows how aggessive those were.

ponytrekker · August 2004

Ex -- with more widgets and gidgets -- costs more probably. The Accord LX is by far the best buy on the planet.

Kirstie_H · August 2004

A reporter is looking to interview a person who got a great leasing deal in the past six months. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Tuesday, August 17, 2004.
Thanks!

htownpimp786 · August 2004

Whats going on, along the lease terms, anything new, would anyone know the terms for august, and the money factor?

BMW 325i Sedan
Houston Texas

Thanks in Advance

ogbuffguy · August 2004

Hi carman, I have a couple more questions for you. What are the lease rates and incentives for a 24 month lease on a mazda rx8 auto this month on southern california? Also could I have the rates for a bmw 325ci and 330ci for 36 months/12k miles a year. And could I have the rates for a toyota 4runner v8 4x2 in southern cali for 36 months/12k miles a year. thanks

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hey sunpro2003. I wrote a detailed response to your post yesterday, but it seems to have disappeared because of the software problems that we were having. The gist of my post was that the lease that you were quoted on this Jeep is a good deal and no Chrysler Financial's excess mileage fees are not negotiable though they do cost less at lease signing than they do at lease-end.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

You're welcome for all of my help in the past, bv73ms3. I believe that Subaru may have a little regional variation in its lease program. I still should be able to give you a decent idea of what sort of numbers you can expect if you were to lease one through its captive finance company right now. According to the latest info that I have seen, the base lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month 12,000 miles per year lease of a 2005 Outback 2.5i Limited should be .00175 and 58%, respectively. I have not seen any Subaru residual values for leases with only 10,000 miles per year. Using this information and the prices that you provided in your post, a MSRP of $29,000 and a selling price of $26,600, I come up with a zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of right around $348.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hi crikkit. The selling prices of leased vehicles are indeed negotiable, even if there is a cash incentive available on the model that you are interested in. I am not intimately familiar with what the market is like for this car in your area right now, but in major markets on should not have much trouble leasing a 2004 330i for $500 to $1,000 over invoice before any incentives are deducted. This would bring the car's actual selling price to well below invoice. I highly doubt that you would be able to get this car for less than invoice minus the dealer cash though.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Good luck mitchs3. Make sure to let us all know how everything turned out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

You are absolutely correct, suburbman. It is never a good idea to make a large down payment when leasing, and I suspect that the same thing is true with balloon notes. The safest thing for you to do would be to have the dealer that you are trading your current vehicle in at cut you a check for any equity that you have in your trade rather than applying that money towards your next deal. As you mentioned, you can always use the proceeds from your trade to supplement your monthly payment for you, gaining interest on it while you do so. Large down payments on leases only serve to reduce the amount of interest that one pays and do not have any impact on vehicles' lease-end purchase prices. So while you may be able to get a rough idea of how much your new payment would be by adding your down payment divided by the number of months to it, the result will not be exactly the same as your actual new payment.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Here you go, hcagan. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2004 Honda Accord LX 4-cylinder through American Honda Finance Corp. in New York this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00110 and 55%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an '04 Accord LX V6 should be .00110 and 52%. When negotiating your lease on this car, keep in mind that Honda is providing $500 dealer cash on Accord Sedans this month.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Pavel, the three year, zero down, pre-tax monthly payment for a vehicle that has an MSRP of $18,550, a selling price of $16,600, a money factor of .00129, and residual value of 53% should be $222. Having said this, the money factor that you were quoted might be a little off. I believe that AHFC's 36 month, 12,000 miles per year base lease money factor and residual value for an '04 Accord LX 4-xylinder are currently .00061 and 55% in every state but New York.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hi erocker. I normally advise consumers not to make any sort of down payment when leasing. However, your situation is a little different because you have $5,000 in negative equity on your current vehicle. So the $2,000 that you are putting down is actually going towards that rather than a normal capitalized cost reduction. Ideally you would put $5,000 down on this lease to cover all of your negative equity and avoid paying interest on it.

Also, the lease money factor that you were quoted looks a little on the high side. BMW Financial Services' base lease money factor for a 36 month lease of a 2004 325i is .00220. You were quoted a higher factor than this because either you are having this car's security deposit waived, its acquisition fee waived, your dealer is marking up BMW's base money factor to add additional profit to this deal, or some combination thereof. BMW FS' 3 year, 12,000 miles per residual value for this car is currently 60%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

You're welcome, Joe. American Honda Finance Corp. actually completely ceased leasing vehicles to residents of New York several years ago because of the vicarious liability laws that exist in your state. These laws essentially allow the company that a car or truck is being leased through to be sued if the vehicle is involved in an accident. Pretty silly, huh? AHFC began leasing vehicles to NY residents again around a year ago, but it now has higher money factors for NY residents to cover the additional liability that is associated with doing business in this state.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

You're very welcome, briegel. I am glad that I was able to help you out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

No problem, ksharma01. At lease signing, lessees are typically required to pay their vehicle's first month's payment, a security deposit of that payment rounded up to the nearest $50 increment, and their bank's lease acquisition fee, which in this case is $525. I am not absolutely positive, but I believe that gap insurance is automatically included in BMW FS leases. Good luck and make sure to let us all know how everything turns out.

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viggie · August 2004

Hi! I guess my post got lost in the maintnance yesterday.

I made a few calls in some dealer in MA. Of course they would like to lease me a 2004, this is what the sale person told me:
Porsche Cayenne Turbo 2004
MSRP: $100,635.00
Selling price: $89,831.00
Residual Value: $50,317.00
Term: 42 months
Milage/year allowed: 15,000
Payment: $1,296 per month incl. taxes
Money factor: .00210 (he said about 5%)
Is is about right? What other info you I get from him?

Thanks

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hi jaa37. The lease money factor and residual value that you were quoted for this model look good to me. For more feedback on the price that you were quoted, you may want to look up this model's Edmunds.com True Market Value by visiting the following section of this site: Edmunds.com New Vehicle Pricing and stop by the following discussion: Volvo XC70/V70: Prices Paid & Buying Experience.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hello kievlianin. Nissan's lease program on the 2004 Murano is decent. It's base money factor for a 3 year lease of an '04 Murano SL AWD is .00193. This is equivalent to an interest rate of around 4.6%. There's nothing wrong with leasing one if that is what you decide to do. If you are not completely sold on leasing, you may also want to consider taking advantage of Nissan's current financing offer on it, which provides loans at 2.0% for up to 5 years. Since you already have access to a 4% loan, you can also finance the Murano that you want through that and take the $1,000 customer cash instead of the special financing rate. Whichever way you choose to go, you would be better off paying the negative equity that you have on your Audi out of your own pocket, rather than rolling it into your loan or lease and paying interest on it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Different states have different regulations about how sales tax is charged on new and used vehicles so unfortunately I can not provide a general answer to your question, Blackhat.

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crikkit · August 2004

Carman-

Thanks for all of your help. I have another question. I have been able to negotiate $1500 below invoice, after applying the $2400 dealer cash. I think this leaves the dealer a very good profit. The car I'm looking at (manual, performance pkg, moonroof, xenon headlights) retails for $41545, and the capitalized cost is $36350. When I use the Edmunds calculator, my monthly cost comes to right around $540 per month (doing a 3 year, 45,000 lease, and calculating tax on the entire cap cost for TX). One of the dealers told me I could do even better right now on the Owners Choice lease right now because it's calculated on a 1.9 percent APR. Yet the dealers keep coming back to me telling me they have "great news" and showing me payments of over $600 per month. When I ask how they are calculating the monthly payment, they get pretty angry.

Am I totally off my rocker for thinking I can get the payment below $550?

Thanks!

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hi homer13. It is not really a good idea to put money down when leasing. Consumers can and should always lease any vehicle that they are interested in without making any sort of capitalized cost reduction. If you have a vehicle that you want to trade in and you are leasing your new one, just have the dealer that you are working with cut you a check for your trade instead of applying it to your lease. Since this is your first lease, you may want to check out the following informative article that is available here at Edmunds.com: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car. I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment for you on the exact Odyssey that you are considering. However, in order for me to do so, I need you to provide me with its full MSRP and selling price.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hey htownpimp786. BMW's August lease program for the 2004 325i is exactly the same as it was in July.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hey ogbuffguy. Mazda is not really providing any sort of lease rate support on the 2004 RX-8 right now. If you were to lease an '05 RX-8 with a manual transmission through its captive finance company for 2 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00315 and 63%, assuming that you qualify for its top credit tier. The big savings on this car come in the form of a total of $4,250 lease cash when all of the support is added up on 2 year leases of it.

BMW FS' base 36 month, 12k factor and resid for the '04 325ci are .00220 and 60% and for the '04 330ci are .00150 and 54%. When negotiating your deal on these cars' don't forget about the dealer cash.

Lastly, if you were to lease a 2004 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4x2 through Toyota Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its unsupported base factor and resid should be .00215 and 58%.

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cuco · August 2004

Car_Man,

  I posted yesterday but the posts from yesterday seem to be gone. I need help.

  I'm going to try to finalize a closed-end 36 month lease, 10000 miles/year, deal for a 2004 Z4 tomorrow.

  I have done my homework. Edmund, Carsdirect, Leaseguide. I even have the Lease Kit from Lease Guide.

  As you probably know, BMW has a manufacturer-to-dealer incentive of $4500 for the 3 liter Z4.

  Do you think that it would be too aggressive if I start my negotiating at (Invoice - $3500) for this car. I already have an offer of 58% for the residual and 2.28% financing. Money down, $2500.

  Thanks for the help

JoeSM · August 2004

Hi Car_Man - Good weekend plans? We're finalizing our car choice and have a few vehicles to check out before deciding. Could you give the mf and residuals on the Accord EX V6 and MB C230 and C240 sedans for 36 mo 12k and 15k/year? This assumes no buy down of the cap cost. Thanks for your help, as usual!

copper · August 2004

Hello Carman,
Just following up to see if anything has changed for the Volvo XC90 2.5T and Audi A6 2.7T s-line for the month of August. Any new incentives?

Thanks as always,
Copper

larrym · August 2004

What happened to August 12th? I posted my reply on August 12th but it seems all the messages are missing from that day?

Anyhow, I am not exactly sure of the purchase price, I know the car MSRPs for $36,160 and invoice is $33,086. So I assume the selling price is anywhere from $33,500-$34,500

Here is my previous message
***
Hi, I am completely clueless when it comes to leasing. (Always bought in the past) Anyhow my girlfriend wishes to lease an Infiniti G35 coupe with leather. I built the vehicle she wishes to lease and it comes out to $36,160 msrp
(G35 automatic Ivory Pearl coupe w/dark leather, Bose Audio System, Wheel and Tire Package, Power Sunroof, Premium Package, Aero Package, Trunk Mat) She's open to additional options, except for the navigation system. I have done a search in a 50 mile radius of 07010 (Cliffside Park, NJ) and I have been able to locate about 20 G35s with similar option, but any of them would suit her needs.

I was wondering what a great lease offer would be for this vehicle. She is looking at a 48month lease, and 12,000 miles a year, 0 down (except for 1st and last month, title, bank fees)

We have gone to 2 dealerships and received 2 quotes. The 1st quote my GF went by herself and got a quote for $450 a month and 4K down!!! I was in shock, then we went together to the other dealership and were told $440 a month with 0 down, but did not include tax, I am not sure how to incorporate tax into the equation, in NJ we have 6% tax so I am assuming we just add 6% to each months payment.

Any help is appreciated.
Thank You***

sandyl · August 2004

My post from yesterday got lost. what is the
money factor and residual for a base pacifica.

thanks!

sandy

homer13 · August 2004

I guess my timing could have been better, because the Edmund's system was down and we ended up leasing the vehicle. I did check out the 10 steps for leasing a car, and the salesperson passed with flying colors, and the paperwork matched everything that was promised over the phone in the first conversation. Also, we called other dealers and their numbers were a mile off from what we had here (even for inferior cars).

Low monthly payments were key for us, since we have no car payment now, so we did put money down, although we were able to negotiate that part.

Here's what we ended up with. Maybe you can tell me if the combination of research and dumb luck resulted in a good deal or if we have a lesson for the next time.

Honda Odyssey EX 4dr Minivan (3.5L 6cyl 5A), standard options, No DVD Player, purchase price of 24,800, with an MSRP of 26,800.

-24 month lease, 15000 miles per year
-$2,000 down plus the almost worthless 98 Voyager as a trade (own outright, lack of worth confirmed by my mechanic)
-$231/month.
-Residual value after lease: $18,400

So should I buy a lottery ticket tonight or what?

mazdax605 · August 2004

Heloo again Car_Man,

I was wondering if you could give us the lease details(eg residual,MF)on a 04 Mazda 6 sport wagon.This would be for a 3 year lease if possible.We live in massachusetts.We are looking at a base 6 wagon w/automatic,and the ULEV emissions package.We may be interested in the upgrade package with the moonroof,but we would like the numbers on the base model if you could.Oh yeah 12-15k miles a year is good.Thanks for your time.I love my new RX-8 that I got with your help.

mkfx · August 2004

Hey Car_man.
Thansk for the help with my Infiniti FX, you helped me get a great deal.
Now I have to do it all over again for another car.
here are the details:
Mazda 3S 39 month lease In NY with taxes in payment 8.75% MSRP $20285 Sell $19340

Chevy Equinox LT AWD $25450, sell $ 23,470 Smart buy
If can provide residual and money factor it will help.

sandyl · August 2004

I am not sure why my post duplicated. I have a 2002 camry that ends lease in Jan. I know that
if I get out early, unless I get another toyota,
I will pretty much get "screwed", but then again, right now it seems like leasing is once again "in". When I got the Toyota for 310/month
there was not a lot out there in the 200's. I am afraid that is going to happen again come december. Any thoughts? I could hang on to the car until EOL and lease the new one and make 5 double payments, but in the long run will I save
the 1500$ leasing now?

Sandy (who remembers the good ole days of getting sign and drives under 250 )

vsaxena · August 2004

Well we got $3000 of the $3500 incentive. The dealer did mark up the loan to 2.9% from 1.9%.

BMWUSA is showing a lease MF of 0.000959 (= 2.3%). The key is to negotiate the lowest possible price and get the base MF from the dealer. That would make things really nice! The dealer will typically mark up the money factor.

cuco · August 2004

vsaxena,

  A dealer just offered me the 2.28% rate, (Invoice - $3500), i.e., $1000 profit for him, on a 36 month, 10000 miles/year lease, no money down. He will also order the 2004 from the factory with the options that I want, so I'm not limited to what's on the lot.

  It's not a bad deal. I'm still debating between the Z4 and the Lexus SC430.

  This

wibble · August 2004

"Yet the dealers keep coming back to me telling me they have "great news" and showing me payments of over $600 per month. When I ask how they are calculating the monthly payment, they get pretty angry."

What is it about leases that gets dealers into such a state? I've found exactly the same when getting quotes. Start asking about money factor, residuals, acquisition fees and the like and they start getting all upset. I find it easier now to get the info from here (thanks to our host) and then e-mail asking if they can provide a car based on that info.

crikkit · August 2004

Yeah, I called around to several dealerships and the best I could get anywhere was $582 per month, using the Owners Choice option, which seems to make it more difficult to walk away from the car at the end of the lease. Standard lease rates were over $600 per month. They were firm that they would not do better than .00190 money factor. So now I'm just going to buy the darn thing. I get $1500 below invoice, 1.9% APR, which is about $680 a month even if I don't put a penny down. I'm going to put a little bit down, and my payments will be lower than what they were offering on the lease. I'll be picking it up in San Antonio tomorrow. Wish me luck that I don't get any unpleasant surprises after I get there!

vsaxena · August 2004

The only problem is that the incentives are currently valid till Aug 31. Given the current state of affairs, it is very likely that they will be extended further but you can never be 100% sure. So if you order a car from their September allocation, you may have a problem on your hand. However it is a risk worth taking since things are unlikely to change soon.

I think you have a great deal! What is the residual on the 36m/30K lease? In general the difference between the 10K/12K/15K year residuals is not much (0.1 to 0.2). It might make a lot of sense to go for the 15K per year if it is just 0.03 less in residuals. That way you do not have to limit your driving just because your lease company will charge you 20c/mile!

The Lexus is less common the Z4. However it is still a Lexus and not a BMW. Z4 is the land shark; the front view of the car reminds you of a shark, especially in Jet Black where the grill (teeth) really contrast against the car body! The Lexus has a softer look. What is the deal you are getting on the Lexus?

cuco · August 2004

vsaxena,

The residual I was given is 58% for 10000 miles/year. They also quoted a 56% residual for 12000 and a 55% for 15000 miles. Since the interest rate that they quoted me is so low, I'll even add the acquisition fee to the Cap cost. I'm trying to figure out how to make a deal with the Captive Financing company to raise the residual. I wonder if anyone has pointers on how to do this. Is it even possible? Afterall, the Captive Financial companies are closely affiliated with the manufacturer.

The dealer is quoting a delivery for early October. Now that the financials of this deal are done, you're right, I'm thinking about what else I need to worry about.

  I suppose that I need to add some items into my purchase contract. Things like, what happens if the delivery is delayed. Guaranttee of options and price. What kind of problems do you think that I can get my self into, by signing for this October delivery, since it is based on an incentive program in effect only until 8/31/04?

  If my wife goes for the Lexus, then it will probably be a Certified pre-owned, possibly 1 to 2 years old. IMO, this is really the only way to buy an overpriced car like that, unless you have money to burn. I personnally don't like the smell of burning money! I don't have the final numbers on the Lexus. I know that I can do much better than what I have so far. I have a quote of 57% on a 36-month 15000 mile / year lease on a 2004 SC430. I also have a quote of 63% on a 24 month, 15000 mile per year on the 2005. Money factor for both of 0.00175. Obviously, these numbers are not yet optimum. Better numbers may happen if I show up at a dealer on August 31st.

   So, today I'll be talking to 1 Lexus and 2 BMW dealers. What do you think I should worry about with the Z4 deal?

cuco · August 2004

vsaxena,

   I forgot one item. Your comment about choosing 10k, 12k, or 15k limits on the lease. I did think about going from a 10k mile lease to 12k. But here are the numbers.

   The Z4, loaded with all the options that my wife wants, has an MSRP of just over $50000. Therefore, if you select the 12k mile lease, then you have a residual of 56%. This 2% difference, for the residual, between the 10k and 12k mile leases, means that you're going to capitalize and pay for an extra $1000 in depreciation ($50000 * 0.02). In other words, any miles from 10000 to 12000 will cost you $0.50 a mile ($1000 / 2000 miles). You're better off paying at $0.20 a mile for any additions over 10k. In addition, let's say that you only drive an additional 1000 miles past the 10k limit on the lease. Then, if you were to pay for a 12k mile lease, then your extra 1000 miles would be costing $1 a mile.

  Car_man, are this calculations correct? Is there anything that I'm missing here?

kyfdx · August 2004

1) check your residuals.. the bump is usually 1% going from 10K to 12K, then 2% to move from 12K to 15K. Your numbers seem opposite of that.
2) When you go from 10k to 12K, you get SIX thousand more miles, not TWO thousand.. 36K total vs 30K total. That brings your per mile cost down to $0.17, but if residual difference is 1% (which I think is more likely), then the cost is just 8.3 cents/mile

regards,
kyfdx

cabaiste · August 2004

Carman,
My wife is looking at leasing either a Durango or a Freestar. Can you provide the residual values and money factors for both of these for both 24 and 36 months with 12,000 miles. Thanks

bhaskarrao009 · August 2004

Hi Carman,

Ive been offered the following lease for 2004 Honda Civic Value Package in Louisville KY.

$179 x 36 months.12,000 miles/yr
First payment plus tax due at signing

Pls tell me if you think its a good lease
Thanks
Bhaskar

mzinzi · August 2004

Hey CarMan...

Looking for MF and Residual for 2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Sedan...

39 months
12,000 miles per year

I live in CT if it matters

Thanks!

hartt · August 2004

Hi Car_man.

Could you please provide the numbers on a 3/36K lease on the following vehicles?
04 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4WD
04 Dodge Durango SLT 4WD

I am located in the Cincinnati area.
Thanks!

sunpro2003 · August 2004

Car Man-

Thanks for your help. I did read your detailed response a few days ago-I guess when they upgraded this message board some messages may have been lost.

I went with the 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo-Exterior is Brilliant silver-Interior is Leather Taupe.

Any idea what color pinstriping would look good?
They offered to throw this in at no charge.
In the past, I got pinstriping that matched the interior seat color burt that was a while back

Thanks again-Your info was valuable.

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Sorry about that viggie. A number of posts were indeed lost in the transition to new and improved software for the Town Hall. Thanks for taking the time to re-post. Porsche dealers frequently mark-up Porsche Credit's base money factors to make additional back-end profit on deals. Having said this, this is not happening with the deal that you were quoted, which obviously is a good thing. .00210 is Porsche Credit's base lease money factor for this length lease on this model right now. You also have done a great job in your negotiations so far because all of the information that one needs to know to work up a sample lease on this truck. You've been able to negotiate a considerable discount on this model as well. Using the numbers that you provided in your post, I come up with a zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of right around $1,236, which is right in line with what you were quoted. If you like the truck, I don't see any reason not to go for it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

You're very welcome, crikkit. Essentially after taking the dealer cash into account you are getting this car for around $900 over invoice. Which is a decent deal, but probably not the lowest deal possible if you are in an area where there is a lot of competition for your business and you were to comparison shop at several dealers. Using the numbers that you provided in your post, an MSRP of $41,545, a selling price of $36,350, I come up with a 3 year, 15,000 miles per, zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of right around $475 on this car. I have a feeling that the price that you have been able to negotiate is even lower than the TMV number that you provided in your post so your actual lease payment might even be lower than this. So the "good news" payment of $600 per month that you were quoted is only "good news" for the dealer and not yourself.

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CarMan@Edmunds · August 2004

Hey cuco. Yeah, a number of posts were lost a few days ago in the transition to new software. Sorry about that. I definitely do not think that dealer invoice minus $3,500, after taking the dealer cash into account, is too aggressive for a 2004 BMW Z4 3.0 right now. Roadster sales have been fairly soft in general lately, even though we are in the middle of the summer. As long as there is a little competition for your business your target price should be very attainable.

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