Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Michaell · January 2016

imidazol97 said:

Michaell said:

I looked at the Cruze inventory, too. I could do an LS for about the same price.

This would be a purchase, not a lease. Kid would make the payments.
The LS has the 1.8 L Ecotec engine. All other Cruzes have the 1.4 Turbo.

Yep. This is relatively basic transportation for him. Remember, he's driving a 20 year old Mustang. The tech in the Cruze will be light years better.

ab348 · January 2016

I picked the one I did because it was an LT with alloys, the 1.4 T engine, and MyLink for the connectivity and color screen. For the sake of a grand or so I think it is well worth it.

Michaell · January 2016

ab348 said:
I picked the one I did because it was an LT with alloys, the 1.4 T engine, and MyLink for the connectivity and color screen. For the sake of a grand or so I think it is well worth it.

I looked at that one first, too.

suydam · January 2016

If you were the co signer a grand less might be appealing.

Michaell · January 2016

suydam said:
If you were the co signer a grand less might be appealing.

Yep. I gotta figure out what his budget is.

ab348 · January 2016

suydam said:
If you were the co signer a grand less might be appealing.

Just pennies a day!

corvette · January 2016

Steve Lang, the BHPH used car dealer who sometimes writes for auto blogs, claims the turbo engine in the Cruze is more trouble prone than the 1.8 liter.

A coworker of mine also has a Sonic hatchback, and seems to like it.

stever · January 2016

Just drove our friend's Cruze to town and back to see a movie. Really a nice ride (but I'm not 6'3").

ab348 · January 2016

corvette said:
Steve Lang, the BHPH used car dealer who sometimes writes for auto blogs, claims the turbo engine in the Cruze is more trouble prone than the 1.8 liter.

A coworker of mine also has a Sonic hatchback, and seems to like it.

Well, being a turbo, it is more complex and under more stress than a NA engine, so that isn't surprising. Every review I've read of the 1.8 says it's a bit of a dog.

Doesn't the Sonic also come with the 1.4 Turbo?

corvette · January 2016

ab348 said:

corvette said:
Steve Lang, the BHPH used car dealer who sometimes writes for auto blogs, claims the turbo engine in the Cruze is more trouble prone than the 1.8 liter.

A coworker of mine also has a Sonic hatchback, and seems to like it.
Well, being a turbo, it is more complex and under more stress than a NA engine, so that isn't surprising. Every review I've read of the 1.8 says it's a bit of a dog.

Doesn't the Sonic also come with the 1.4 Turbo?

Yes, they use that engine in a handful of vehicles... Sonic, Cruze, Trax, Encore.

Sandman6472 · January 2016

The LTZ model is very nice and they also have an "RS" whatever that means with nicer alloys and leather. The upcoming 2017 model looks so much better to be honest, they tweaked it a bit to make it look more modern and they succeeded big time. Just feel like I'm sitting in a Flintstone car whenever I drive one, the seating position is pretty low even with it put in it's highest position.
No, if I were looking for a domestic 4 door, it would have to be the Verano. A cousin of the Cruze but so much better looking inside and out and, it's a Buick...enough said! I know a few folks in this forum drive an Encore and just ask them about the drivability and quality and bet they will give positive answers. May cost a bit more but sometimes, spending a bit more gets you so much more. Wish we had more at Hertz but they seem to have a whole bunch of the Cruze/Malibu/Impala's in our fleet. Reliable transport no doubt but they all seem to have that "rental car stigma" it seems and I've hardly ever heard anyone get truly excited when purchasing one of the Chevy cousins except for the Corvette.
I decided a few years back that since I'm getting older and won't be purchasing that many more vehicles, might as well drive what I really like and enjoy the experience. At a good place right now so putting funds away for the next, whatever that will be.

The Sandman

suydam · January 2016

The Verano is a very nice car but fuel economy is much worse than the Cruze. Hope that changes soon.

berri · January 2016

Probably weight

Michaell · January 2016

New plan for the kids transportation. Turns out he can't afford the payment on a new car, even One as heavily discounted as what I can get.

So I found a 2002 Honda Civic ex coupe with 70,000 miles on it advertised at $4995

Thoughts?

stickguy · January 2016

Hondas are expensive used. but if it is clean and well maintained, should last a while and be cheap to run. I always liked that generation Civic. Would think it should cost less, but it is LA so my frame of reference probably is not applicable.

Kid needs to get a better job though!

suydam · January 2016

Low miles accounts for the price. If it checks out it should be cheap reliable transport for a long time. Can he fit in it?

thebean · January 2016

That's really low miles on an '02 Civic. I bought an '02 EX new and kept it for 13 years & 92K miles. Was a great car. Only issue was the front struts, which I had replaced under extended warranty. When I traded mine in, the Honda dealer put $6,995 on it and it was gone in a week. Don't know what they actually got for it, but I would guess around $6K. So, the one you found sounds like a solid deal.

slorenzen · January 2016

Michaell said:
New plan for the kids transportation. Turns out he can't afford the payment on a new car, even One as heavily discounted as what I can get.

So I found a 2002 Honda Civic ex coupe with 70,000 miles on it advertised at $4995

Thoughts?

At that age and low miles, I would confirm the timing belt has been done. Is that an interference engine?

Michaell · January 2016

slorenzen said:

New plan for the kids transportation. Turns out he can't afford the payment on a new car, even One as heavily discounted as what I can get.

So I found a 2002 Honda Civic ex coupe with 70,000 miles on it advertised at $4995

Thoughts?
At that age and low miles, I would confirm the timing belt has been done. Is that an interference engine?

That was my thought, too.

stickguy · January 2016

not sure about the civic engine, but back in '05, my Accord had a chain. Only the V6 had a belt.

OK, I got ambitious and check. the 2002 still had a belt. Seems to be an interference engine (though some debate about whether the pistons would actually hit the valves).

so based on the age, if you aren't sure it was changed at 60K, figure on that. So what, maybe $600 on that car at one of the 1,000s of indy Honda shops in Socal? Of course, while you are in there, all the fluids, plugs, belts and hoses (I love "while you are in there". close relation to "If you are painting the hall, might as well get all new furniture").

So if it was me, unless I had the paperwork or proof, I would be figuring on laying out about 1K right away to do all the preventive/routine maintenance. Assuming brakes/tires/suspension are all fine. And at that price, I would assume it didn't need anything really.

though at this point, I would assume finding a clean, unmolested Civic coupe in that area is really hard!

xwesx · January 2016

Ah, the saga of a car replacement. I (of all people!) am not trying to push new over used, regardless of how the following comes across.....

It is probably already part of the conversation, Michael, so I'll mention it anyway.

This Mustang is old, unreliable, and somewhat of a gas hog compared to what your son is looking at getting to replace it. My question is.... how much does it really cost him to run this car? Things worth considering: 1. maintenance, 2. repairs, 3. insurance, 4. fuel, 5. recovery, 6. alternate transportation arrangements (or opportunity costs related to missing activities due to breakdowns). Now, compare this to an "inexpensive" new vehicle at what, a sixty month loan? Consider: 1. insurance, 2. maintenance, 3. fuel, 4. purchase price/payments.

What is the delta on that? From what you've said, I wouldn't think it would be more than $200 a month. Even if that is not a sum that is going into savings right now, it is a small enough amount that just reprioritizing expenditures often covers it.

On the Civic, he'll still have expenses in the first four categories and quite possibly in the last two. #4 will be less, but #3 could be more given the Civic's status as a high-theft vehicle. So, how much is really saved here, particularly if $5K isn't something he could float without a loan anyway.

slorenzen · January 2016

xwesx said:
Ah, the saga of a car replacement. I (of all people!) am not trying to push new over used, regardless of how the following comes across.....

It is probably already part of the conversation, Michael, so I'll mention it anyway.

This Mustang is old, unreliable, and somewhat of a gas hog compared to what your son is looking at getting to replace it. My question is.... how much does it really cost him to run this car? Things worth considering: 1. maintenance, 2. repairs, 3. insurance, 4. fuel, 5. recovery, 6. alternate transportation arrangements (or opportunity costs related to missing activities due to breakdowns). Now, compare this to an "inexpensive" new vehicle at what, a sixty month loan? Consider: 1. insurance, 2. maintenance, 3. fuel, 4. purchase price/payments.

What is the delta on that? From what you've said, I wouldn't think it would be more than $200 a month. Even if that is not a sum that is going into savings right now, it is a small enough amount that just reprioritizing expenditures often covers it.

On the Civic, he'll still have expenses in the first four categories and quite possibly in the last two. #4 will be less, but #3 could be more given the Civic's status as a high-theft vehicle. So, how much is really saved here, particularly if $5K isn't something he could float without a loan anyway.

As an aside, did that earthquake affect you?

xwesx · January 2016

slorenzen said:
As an aside, did that earthquake affect you?

No, but, even though it is about 250 miles (as the raven flies) south of here, my wife said she felt it enough to wake her on Sunday morning. I didn't notice it. It's been a while since the folks in "Southcentral" Alaska experienced one this big, though, so it was a big deal for them. We had a 7.9 in the interior back in November 2002, and that was truly an amazing experience.

Sandman6472 · January 2016

Drove an Expedition today, a 2016, and the thing is BIG and very similar to the Tahoe. Did notice a slight lag when first hitting the accelerator which was a bit weird. Seats were very comfortable and sight out all the windows was excellent, I can see why folks with large families buy these beasts.

The Sandman

suydam · January 2016

We referred to it as the Ford Exxon Valdez!

28firefighter · January 2016

Well, he isn't new anymore. There were no cars within 6 spaces of me in any given direction. Go figure. *Pounds head against wall*

breld · January 2016

What's funny is my wife had a very similar scrape in the same place on her GTI. Weird.

houdini1 · January 2016

28firefighter said:

Well, he isn't new anymore. There were no cars within 6 spaces of me in any given direction. Go figure. *Pounds head against wall*

That sucks, but maybe just a tire "rub". Give Mr. Dent a shot at it.

corvette · January 2016

Ouch! Hope you can find someone competent to fix it.

28firefighter · January 2016

The good news is 95% of it came off with rubbing compound and some wax. Bad news is there are areas that broke the paint (no dent).

Going to get some touch up from VDub and see if I can get it looking better. I have a hard time wrapping my head around doing a full out repair since I park on the street and something else is bound to happen to the rear bumper.

xwesx · January 2016

Yeah, dang, that's no good. Sorry, man! Time to start looking for your next ride!

roadburner · January 2016

In the days before everyone had remote locks a guy parked extremely close to a friend of mine's car and dinged his door really hard- it actually looked intentional. My friend squirted super glue into each door lock followed by a paper clip- and departed the scene.

rny421 · January 2016

Hey guys,
I am helping a friend look for a new vehicle. I have always bought cars personally, so I wasn’t too familiar with the details of leasing. I understood the general concept, but had to know how the actual payment was calculated (engineer here).

I know it can be hard to suggest, since lease deals seem more difficult pin down because there are a lot of things going on “behind the scenes” that make up the monthly payment. Any suggestions for an AWD vehicle with the best bang for your buck? Would need to have heated seats, sunroof, AWD, automatic. Friend is a current VW owner, so we’re looking at the Tiguan.

It seems that something like an Outlander or Outlander sport could be a good lease deal, but my friend might cringe at the thought of a Mitsubishi (as would I to purchase). Jeep Cherokee, Compass? Honda CR-V? RAV4?

We’re shooting in the low $300/month range, no money down. Is that too optimistic?
Thanks!

Michaell · January 2016

rny421 said:
Hey guys,
I am helping a friend look for a new vehicle. I have always bought cars personally, so I wasn’t too familiar with the details of leasing. I understood the general concept, but had to know how the actual payment was calculated (engineer here).

I know it can be hard to suggest, since lease deals seem more difficult pin down because there are a lot of things going on “behind the scenes” that make up the monthly payment. Any suggestions for an AWD vehicle with the best bang for your buck? Would need to have heated seats, sunroof, AWD, automatic. Friend is a current VW owner, so we’re looking at the Tiguan.

It seems that something like an Outlander or Outlander sport could be a good lease deal, but my friend might cringe at the thought of a Mitsubishi (as would I to purchase). Jeep Cherokee, Compass? Honda CR-V? RAV4?

We’re shooting in the low $300/month range, no money down. Is that too optimistic?
Thanks!

Some good deals on the Mazda CX-5.

Link to an article to build your own lease calculator spreadsheet:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-leasing/calculate-your-own-lease-payment.html

Lease calculations are no more complicated than those for a purchase; there are some fees that are lease-specific (bank fee, for one), and the tax obligations for a lease vary by state.

stickguy · January 2016

Leases are easy. As long as terms are same (36/36,000 say) if you want true sign and drive, you really only are comparing monthly payment.

CX-5, CR-V and forester are good options. Though in my experience, Subaru is not best option to lease. And Tiguan in the past didn't either, but lately, all bets are off with VW.

Also take a look at the Escape. Nice car, possibly good deals now.

Still, first step is decide which car you want, before shopping the deal.

28firefighter · January 2016

If you're willing to go with a sedan, an Infiniti Q50 AWD with Nav is very doable in the low 300s right now.

roadburner · January 2016

The Cherokee is okay, but the Compass is garbage. The CX-5 is far and away the most fun to drive, and would be my choice if no off-roading was contemplated.

rny421 · January 2016

Thanks for the info! Also, when I mentioned the $300 range, I meant with 8% tax included. It might be a bit of a stretch. We'll see though!

@28firefighter - Sedans are OK too. Low $300s are possible with no money down? That would be a hell of a car for the money, even in the $350 range.

You have Car A and Car B, two similar vehicles, no money down, same mileage, and taking into account disposition and other fees isn't hard to compare the cost of Car A to car B. But what makes it different with leasing is, typically, Car A and Car B don't lease the same. Car B might have a higher sell price, but offers lease cash and an inflated residual, making it a lower monthly payment than Car A. What you can end up seeing is a brand like Subaru, which typically has extremely strong resale values, but they never seem to lease well.

Personally, I don't mind going around to every dealership, driving anything that interests my friend, and then having the dealer run the numbers on every model. But, I have to remember that not everyone enjoys car shopping like me

Michaell · January 2016

rny421 said:
Thanks for the info! Also, when I mentioned the $300 range, I meant with 8% tax included. It might be a bit of a stretch. We'll see though!

@28firefighter - Sedans are OK too. Low $300s are possible with no money down? That would be a hell of a car for the money, even in the $350 range.

You have Car A and Car B, two similar vehicles, no money down, same mileage, and taking into account disposition and other fees isn't hard to compare the cost of Car A to car B. But what makes it different with leasing is, typically, Car A and Car B don't lease the same. Car B might have a higher sell price, but offers lease cash and an inflated residual, making it a lower monthly payment than Car A. What you can end up seeing is a brand like Subaru, which typically has extremely strong resale values, but they never seem to lease well.

Personally, I don't mind going around to every dealership, driving anything that interests my friend, and then having the dealer run the numbers on every model. But, I have to remember that not everyone enjoys car shopping like me

Ah, but you've come to the right place to feed that need.

Subaru has pretty high money factors, which explains why the lease deals aren't always as good as other brands, despite the high residuals.

Also need to factor in the up front costs - bank fee, dealer fee, first payment, DMV costs, etc. - for each car so you can get as much of an 'apples to apples' comparison as possible

28firefighter · January 2016

rny421 said:
@28firefighter - Sedans are OK too. Low $300s are possible with no money down? That would be a hell of a car for the money, even in the $350 range.

Yup! Granted I don't know what the January incentives are, but my colleague just leased a 2015 Q50 AWD with Signature package (MSRP just above 40k). She did first month payment + tags due at signing and is paying $320/month for 39 months, 12k miles a year, including 9.6% sales tax on the monthly payment.

Could be worth looking into!

nyccarguy · January 2016

28firefighter said:

rny421 said:
@28firefighter - Sedans are OK too. Low $300s are possible with no money down? That would be a hell of a car for the money, even in the $350 range.
Yup! Granted I don't know what the January incentives are, but my colleague just leased a 2015 Q50 AWD with Signature package (MSRP just above 40k). She did first month payment + tags due at signing and is paying $320/month for 39 months, 12k miles a year, including 9.6% sales tax on the monthly payment.

Could be worth looking into!

I thought we were friends dude! LOL!

Sorry about the damage to the GTI. Big enough for you to notice every time you walk up to the car frome behind, small enough for you to put off getting fixed. I know.

stickguy · January 2016

Don't mention cheap Infinitis around Bradd. Makes him grumpy.

nyccarguy · January 2016

stickguy said:
Don't mention cheap Infinitis around Bradd. Makes him grumpy.

LOL! Bradd has other issues to be grumpy about now (hence why I just referred to myself in the 3rd person). Last week I ordered a new fridge. GE French Door Profile - 36" - The longer than counter depth model - Stainless to go into my beautifully remodeled kitchen. The fridge gets delivered today. Wife goes home to supervise (she's surprisingly good at that, who knew?) along with one of her Yenta friends. She calls me and tells me they are going to charge $35 to move the old fridge downstairs into the garage. OK. Fine. Then she calls and tells me that they have to take the front door off of the house in order to get the fridge inside. I say fine. As long as they put the door back on before they leave. Then she calls and tells me IT DOESN'T FIT because they are telling me one of the cabinets is crooked! TO BE CONTINUED! (I know, wrong thread).

stickguy · January 2016

the downside to going for that "built in" look. not much room for error. Hopefully there is some sort of trim strip involved that can be shaved is necessary (that is how our opening was framed). I do know that the fridge we got (and I went looking with measurements, since the 1/4" inch variance was important!) just fit without adjustment.

we had to have the screen door partly dismantled (the hydraulic arms and brackets) for clearance. Hasn't really been the same since, but i'm living with that.

Good luck. All problems are solvable. Hopefully does not require exchanging the fridge though.

nyccarguy · January 2016

Filled up the Pilot to the tune of 13.9 mpg

stevedebi · January 2016

Michaell said:
New plan for the kids transportation. Turns out he can't afford the payment on a new car, even One as heavily discounted as what I can get.

So I found a 2002 Honda Civic ex coupe with 70,000 miles on it advertised at $4995

Thoughts?

My wife had a 2002 Civix EX, the four door. Now belongs to my daughter, who is away at school out of state and isn't using it, so I drive it most weekends. Good car, we have 135K on ours. It is very "zippy" and fun to drive. We get about 33 on the road and maybe 28 in town.

Have the timing belt checked, although the interval is 96K or so, it may be getting old. It is a belt, not a chain, IIRC.

We have put about 1.5K bucks into ours in the last couple of years. Stuff just wearing out. Let's see (not inclusive)

- Just had most of the boots/joints and things like that replaced, all suspension items. The car was "creaking" up front a lot, but the mechanic noticed it before I mentioned it
- Had to replace the engine mounts last year, two were actually broken
- New spark plugs today
- The instrument cluster went out, put a used one in there
- Had to have both electric windows repaired. Right one was a motor replacement
- Stock radio had to be replaced
- The headliner is coming loose in the left rear, but I've not yet had that one done.

corvette · January 2016

nyccarguy said:

Filled up the Pilot to the tune of 13.9 mpg

I think the Yukon was showing 8 or 9 mpg on the last tank. All short city trips and a lot of remote starts. Can't really complain.

tjc78 · January 2016

nyccarguy said:

Filled up the Pilot to the tune of 13.9 mpg

Ouch, and I thought 15ish out of our Enclave was bad.

Michaell · January 2016

stevedebi said:

Michaell said:
New plan for the kids transportation. Turns out he can't afford the payment on a new car, even One as heavily discounted as what I can get.

So I found a 2002 Honda Civic ex coupe with 70,000 miles on it advertised at $4995

Thoughts?
My wife had a 2002 Civix EX, the four door. Now belongs to my daughter, who is away at school out of state and isn't using it, so I drive it most weekends. Good car, we have 135K on ours. It is very "zippy" and fun to drive. We get about 33 on the road and maybe 28 in town.

Have the timing belt checked, although the interval is 96K or so, it may be getting old. It is a belt, not a chain, IIRC.

We have put about 1.5K bucks into ours in the last couple of years. Stuff just wearing out. Let's see (not inclusive)

- Just had most of the boots/joints and things like that replaced, all suspension items. The car was "creaking" up front a lot, but the mechanic noticed it before I mentioned it
- Had to replace the engine mounts last year, two were actually broken
- New spark plugs today
- The instrument cluster went out, put a used one in there
- Had to have both electric windows repaired. Right one was a motor replacement
- Stock radio had to be replaced
- The headliner is coming loose in the left rear, but I've not yet had that one done.

Thanks for the feedback.

He's looking for a 4-door this time around, so the Civic coupe is out. He does want Japanese, I suspect for the reliability.

Not a lot in that price range that isn't already miled up.

@xwesx - you made some good points in your post the other day. Sorry for not responding to it sooner.

However .. I don't know all the numbers behind the care and feeding of the Mustang. His odometer broke a few years back, so we're at TMU. Probably close to 200K. I know his mom and my folks have helped him out on the larger repairs - there have been several that have been close to or over $1K. I think the car is just wearing out.

He pays his own insurance (he's on his mom's policy), and my folks help him out with gas costs since his commute to work can take him up to 20-25 miles one way.

Not sure what's going to happen when I'm there next week. I'll continue to look on-line and see if I can find something that is budget-friendly, reliable and easy to maintain.

A unicorn in SoCal, unfortunately.

I'd love to use my GM points and the awesome deals to get him into a Cruze lease for < $100/mo, but that's not really a long term solution.

28firefighter · January 2016

nyccarguy said:

I thought we were friends dude! LOL!

Sorry about the damage to the GTI. Big enough for you to notice every time you walk up to the car frome behind, small enough for you to put off getting fixed. I know.

Haha! Sorry man. Just remember: you can't lease and therefore it would be a terrible deal for you.

About the fridge: what did the yenta friend have to say about things? I'm sure lots of color commentary...

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