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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello jbl1. BMW definitely is definitely running an attractive lease program on the 2004 X3 this month. To give you an idea of how much the lease support on this model has increased as the model year has progressed, the same '04 X3 2.5 that BMW was advertising for $459 per month for 36 months back in January is now being advertised at $299 for only 24 months! That is a big drop. If you were to lease a 2004 BMW X3 2.5 through BMW FS this month for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00070 and 59%, respectively. This model's 10,000 miles per year money factor would be the same, but its residual value would be 1% higher.

    BMW's lease program on the X3 is much much more attractive than Toyota's program on the RAV4 right now. The BMW is obviously the more expensive vehicle, but their lease payments will not be as different as the difference in their prices suggest.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi mk2. I believe that the dealer that you were speaking with was telling you the truth. Toyota Financial Services is different than a number of other captive finance companies, in that it does not allow the residualization of many options. Many options have to just be divided by the number of payments and then added to the monthly cost of a leased vehicle.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello Jeff. It doesn't really matter how much money this person currently owes on this Porsche Boxter. Regardless of whether he owes $100,000 or $1, you need to compare the selling price that he is offering to what you could buy an equivalent car for on the open market. If this car would cost you less than it would to purchase another similar model and its lessee is able to buy it from Porsche Credit, or whichever bank he is leasing it through, and sell it to you then you should consider buying it.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, markm124. American Honda Finance Corp.'s residual values for a 3 year lease with only 12,000 miles per year would be 2% higher than its 15,000 miles per residual values for that term.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey ers1. I believe that Volvo Finance's current 42 month, 15,000 miles per residual value for a 2004 Volvo S80 T6 is indeed a terrible 35%. I don't think that I would be leasing this car if I was in the market for one. Instead, I would probably finance it, using the $6,500 dealer cash that Volvo is providing on it right to reduce its selling price.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi attendant. Anyone can take advantage of the lease support that manufacturers are providing on vehicles. In fact, consumers are often able to beat the payments that are used in manufacturers' advertised leases because they comparison shop and negotiate a more attractive selling price than the one that the ad was based upon. The two most important numbers for you to focus on when negotiating a lease are the vehicle's selling price and its lease money factor. These are the two areas where dealers can add profit to your deal. You can get a good idea of what sort of selling price you should be able to negotiate on these models by looking around here at Edmunds.com and I can tell you exactly what their base lease money factors should be if you let me know how long you want to lease them for.

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  • ryboltrybolt Member Posts: 2
    Hi Car friends,

    Is the Acquisition fee a junk fee or not ? Can it be negotiated down ?

    Thanks
  • stingsting Member Posts: 7
    Thank You Car_man. In response to part of what you wrote in your last post which I have quoted below, I have found a Dealer that has quoted me a Selling Price of $24,995. I hope this is what you need for the Calculation. I understand your thoughts on Down Payments. Please calculate a sample lease payment that includes the $3,300 down payment and perhaps let me know also what the payment would be with NO Money Down. Thanks again for everything.

    "You're welcome, sting. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2004 X-Type 2.5L for a 2 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be a terrible .00350 and 52%, respectively. As you can see, there is no lease money factor support on this model at this time, which is bad news in that you have to pay a higher interest rate than you would have to pay on the 3.0L, but good news in that I believe you can use the $5,500 dealer cash that Jaguar is providing on the 2004 X-Type 2.5L to reduce its capitalized cost. The dealer cash can not be used on 3.0L leases.

    I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on this car for you. However, in order for me to do so, I need you to tell me its selling price."
  • mk2mk2 Member Posts: 27
    Thanks Car Man. Does this also apply to such options as leather seats, heated seats, navigation system that are factory installed?
  • pimpwgnpimpwgn Member Posts: 3
    Thank you very much Car_man, you are the man. :thumbs up:

    One more quick question, if I were to opt for the 10,000 mile per year lease, what will be the residue for a 2 year and a 3 year lease on the 325i? Assuming MF is constant. Also, just out of curiousity, do you these figures for a 2004 330i?

    Thanks in advance.

    pimpwgn
  • mazdax605mazdax605 Member Posts: 89
    Thanks again Car_Man,

    We brought the new Subaru home yesterday after signing the papers.The F&I guy came up with a payment of $2 less a month with the gap insurance included,so we did it.They also refunded the amount we had in positive equity from the trade in to us.I think we got a good deal,but what do I know?The payments are $5 more a month than we were paying for the Mazda and it is for the next 3 years,where the Mazda was to be payed off in November of 05.
  • talancetalance Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for that info. We are in the Detroit, MI area. Also, a couple other questions: my wife's father is retired from GM, so we get that discount as well. Do you still use the full MSRP to determine residual value in the lease calculations, or do you use the GM employee price? Also, do you know if GM is still offering any conquest cash? We currently own a 99 Ford Mustang that is paid off and we may or may not trade in toward this vehicle. Thanks again!
  • attendantattendant Member Posts: 2
    Thank you for your help. I looked at the price and assuming I get an option like leather, the car should be around 41K. The length of the lease could be either two or three years, I would be fine with either, it depends on what the best deal would be.

    Now, after you give me the base lease money factors, should I be able to look up the exact car I find, figure out how much it sells for or what the TMV is, offer them that much, tell them about the money factors, and sign the papers?

    I fear they may pull something, like they always do. Oh, by the way, my credit is excellent.

    Thanks again.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi rybolt. The vast majority of banks that lease vehicles to consumers charge a acquisition fee on every vehicle that they lease. This fee is usually from $400 to $800. The exact amount will vary depending upon the bank that you are leasing through and even upon the state that you live in. A number of banks have begun charging higher lease acquisition fees in states that have vicarious liability issues, like New York. If I recall correctly, you asked a question about leasing a Nissan earlier. Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp.'s current base lease acquisition fee is $550 in every state. Acquisition fees are not negotiable and individual dealers do not have the authority to waive them, though some banks do allow dealers to mark-up acquisition fees to add additional profit to deals without consumers knowing that they have done so. These fees can often be rolled into your vehicle's capitalized cost so they do not have to be paid at lease signing though.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, sting. Thanks for the additional informaiton. I believe that in an earlier post you said that this car's full MSRP is $29,965 including destination charges. Now we know that its selling price is $24,995. Using these numbers, I calculate that this car's 2 year, 12,000 miles per, zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $535. If you were to put $3,300 down, the payment would drop to around $386.

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  • bossman4bossman4 Member Posts: 6
    I am considering picking up a 2004 Chrysler Crossfire with a three year 12,000 mile lease in the Northern Virginia area. The MSRP of the automatic is $35,570 including the destination charge. I think I can get it for a little over 30 K and I don't plan on putting on a down payment per your recommendations. What is the residual and the money factor for that vehicle now. Does Chrysler have any exhorbident charges to get the lease?
      
    An alternative is the Z-4 roadster that BMW is pushing now. I found the numbers in one of your previous emails, so I have a comparison.
  • dburkedburke Member Posts: 3
    I want out of my 03 Expedition lease. I have 24 months left, can I use the recent incentives out there toward my pay off. What confuses me is one dealer said they take the number of payments left times your payment and pay that off. Does that mean the car just sits there for the next 20 some months as if I had traded it in with fewer months left? Thanls Dburke
  • mk2mk2 Member Posts: 27
    Car Man,

    Would you happen to know MF for leasing a Toyota Highlander Limited with typical options with $0 down for 36 month, 12K in NJ through Chase or Wells Fargo?

    Thanks,

    mk2
  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    Carman,
    I was offered a deal where if I was to put down 10X the regular security deposit, this would lower my monthly lease payments significantly. What are the pros and cons to doing this?

    Thanks again,
    Copper
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    While you're waiting for car_man to get back to you, you can read this article on Down Payment Advice.

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    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,476
    If it is MSD, multiple security deposits.. it can be a good deal... that isn't the same as making a downpayment... BMW used to have a great program, now it is just average.. I think Lexus still has a great MSD program... What make car is it?

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • linc2linc2 Member Posts: 2
    thanks car man,
    FYI - I could not convince them to work with me. I went up the chain as you suggested and the guy apologized and agreed it does not make sense to let me turn the car in and they dump it on auction rather negotiate a reduced residual. Now my question is do I buy it for $19,250 with 70k miles when edmunds TMV dealer retail is 18k or give it back with a check for 4k for the excess miles?

    rookie
  • cjs2002cjs2002 Member Posts: 341
    Well I wanted to drop by and say thank you for all the help you've given me... you've put up with alot of questions from me and have always answered my questions with out hassel.... I ended up leasing out a 05 Pacifica for 218 a month all taxes included... I looked in the paper last night and saw for chyrsler employees/friends and family (if you could get ahold of a #) anyways I was able to so heres how the deal worked out..

    0 down
    218 a month
    24 month
    15K miles a year

    considering I'll be getting ride of this before lease end (parents will take it) the car is perfect for me then... thank you for all the help
  • pimpwgnpimpwgn Member Posts: 3
    Car_man:

    How is tax charged on leased vehicles? Is it charged based on cap cost, then divided into payments? Or is it charged based on cap cost - residual, then divided into payments? When you opt to take over the car at the end of the lease, do I have to pay tax on the residual?

    Thanks
  • gogiantsgogiants Member Posts: 9
    first-time user, this looks like a great site. thanks in advance for the help. about to pull trigger on lease of 2005 XC90 2.5T AWD from SF Bay Area dealer wondering if its a good deal. here are the details

    MSRP $44,070 (climate, premium, and versality packages plus wheeels and cargo net)
    48 mo. 12k per year
    only $195.00 due at lease signing (dealer paying intial payment, DMV fees, and acquisition fee)
    Initial cap cost $41,864.31
    payment $491.88 plus tax
    Residual is 53% of MSRP, MF is .00163
    Dealer says actual cap cost of vehicle when considering he is covering most of my intial expenses including most of my first months payment is closer to $40,700

    Seemed like a good deal to me what do you think car-man? thanks again
  • phaworthphaworth Member Posts: 20
    Look up my message # 12883. It was available labor day wekend only and the MSRP would have been $44,220. probably same dealer.
  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    It's for a 2005 Volve XC90.
    $5500 Security deposit knocks the payment from $540 down to $480 w/o tax. Sounds like a no-brainer. Just wondering if there is a downside.
  • mkpravinmkpravin Member Posts: 7
    Hi Car_man,
    thanks for the insightful information. I will put it to use this weekend.
    Thanks again
  • opsecopsec Member Posts: 1
    I mess up and lease a my 2003 acura, I am in the military and I have been doing so much field training and deploying,that I wish I had purchase my car. I love my car and want to keep it, my lease is for 4 years it started 24 oct 2002, I was wondering can I pay the least off now and then purchase the car, what will the residual be. help!
                                          OPSEC
  • cakes99cakes99 Member Posts: 27
    I leased a 2004 Honda Pilot EXL yesterday for $373.22 36 months, 15K miles per year. We got them to throw in a 6 CD changer (which is not standard with 2004), pinstripe & wheel locks.

    I put $2,500 cash down, and rolled the tax and tags onto the lease.

    Residual is $18,502 MSRP $30,870

    I was wondering if this sounds like a good deal? From what I could see it worked out pretty good. Honda has a current lease promotion on the Pilot with an EX (no Leather) payment of $259 with 12K miles over 36 months. $3,128 due at signing, tax and tags on top. Residual is 18,874.80

    We wanted to upgrade to the EX with leather and put no more than $2,500 out of pocket, also needed to up our mileage to 15K per year.

    This is the first time we have leased. We often change our cars every 2 to 3 years and end up paying a higher payment when buying. So we thought we'd pay less per month this way and still trade in our vehicle in 3 years.

    Just wondering how we did? Any comments?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,476
    There really is no downside to the MSD.. You are losing access to the money for the term of the lease, but in your example, you are receiving a 14.4% effective return on the extra $5K you are putting up for the security deposit.

    Some people worry that the leasing company will be tougher on you at turn-in, since they have your money, but I doubt this and have never heard of that actually being the case.

    Just make sure that the paperwork is clear.. That it is a security deposit, and not a cap cost reduction.

    regards,
    kyfdx
    (not the expert)

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  • cucocuco Member Posts: 36
    kyfdx,

      This idea of additional security deposit or MSD sounds interesting. I'm not quite sure how it is different from extra on the downpayment as far as lowering your monthly payments. Do you get this money back at the end of the lease? If so, how is it that it lowers your monthly payments? Could you explain this some more for us?

      Thanks

      Cuco
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,476
    A downpayment is gone... you don't want to do that on a lease for numerous reasons..

    For the leasing companies that allow MSDs, they reduce the money factor by a certain number for each additional deposit.. So, in effect, you are paying a lower interest rate than without the MSDs.

    From his numbers, I'd guess that Volvo's program is similar to the old BMWFS MSD program.. In that program, they would lower the MF by .0001 for every extra deposit you made.. So, if you made 9 extra deposits, you could lower your MF by .0009.. For example, instead of .0022, it would be .0013

    I think the rationale is: If you are making a large non-interest bearing deposit, you are less of a lending risk..

    BMW's plan was very generous before, but now they have basically cut it in half... It sounds like Volvo's program is still very good.. It is a no-brainer, if you can spare the extra funds for the term of the lease.

    It IS a deposit, not a downpayment... you get it all back.

    regards,
    kyfdx
    (not the expert)

    Edmunds Price Checker
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  • jbl1jbl1 Member Posts: 6
    I'm planning on visiting dealerships in the SF-Bay Area and wanted to know what the money factor & residual would be on a lease for an X3, 12k miles and 39 months. The deal BMW is currently offering is for 10k miles. The msrp of the car is about $31,000 (I only want an automatic with adjustable seats). Thanks
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, mk2. Toyota Financial Services' residual values are based upon the "Base MSRPs" of vehicles. This means their price prior to the addition of any options. Some banks that have this practice have a sheet of "Hard Ads," which is basically a price list for the amount of money that it allows to be residualized for certain manufacturer-installed options. I am not sure if TFS has such a list. If it does, I have never personally seen it.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem. Vehicles that are leased through BMW Financial Services with only 10,000 miles per year have residual values that are 3% higher than its published 15,000 miles per year residuals and 1% higher than its 12,000 miles per year residuals. You're right the lease money factor for this car would be exactly the same for all of the aforementioned mileage limits.

    If you were to lease a 2004 BMW 330i through BMW FS this month for 2 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00150 and 63%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 3 year lease of this car should be .00150 and 57%. When negotiating your lease on an '04 330i, keep in mind that BMW is providing $3,000 dealer cash on it this month. This money will help you to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome again, mazdax605 ;). Congratulations on your new ride and thanks for taking the time to come back and let us all know how everything turned out. Enjoy!

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  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    Thanks kyfdx!

    Copper
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, talance. Interestingly enough, Detroit is not one of the areas that I have heard anything about an additional $1,000 lease cash being offered on the 2005 Cadillac CTS in. You should be able to get a pretty sweet deal on this car if you qualify for the employee or retiree purchase plan. Vehicles' residual values are always based upon a percentage of their full MSRPs, including the MSRPs of any options that can be residualized. The discounted selling price will come into play when you plug your car's capitalized cost into the lease calculator or formula that you are using to work up your payment. As you are already aware, General Motors was offering $1,500 conquest cash on the Cadillac CTS in August. I do not believe that this cash is still available though. On a somewhat related note, General Motors is providing $1,000 bonus cash to consumers who purchase through its employee purchase program in September.

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  • agillmanagillman Member Posts: 30
    Any information yet on the lease program for a 2005 LS 430?

    I'm in California and would like residual and money factor information a 3 year lease, 12,000 and 15,000 miles.

    Thank you.
  • jfields523jfields523 Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone know when Chrysler is going to start the next early lease termination program? I have a Durango lease scheduled to end
    Mar. 31,2005 and am ready to move to a new Durango.
  • mk2mk2 Member Posts: 27
    Hi Car Man,

    I called a couple of Toyota dealers... One gave me a quote for 39 months lease through Toyota financial, the other is telling me that 39 months lease program doesn't exist this month and was valid only last month. Who's right? If it exists, please let me know the money factor and the residual.

    Thanks a lot for your help!

    mk2
  • mk2mk2 Member Posts: 27
    Car Man,

    I forgot to mention that I'm shopping for a Limited Highlander with typical options MSRP $35867

    Thanks,

    mk2
  • jbl1jbl1 Member Posts: 6
    oops I just saw your answer to my previous post. The other question I had is about the aquisition fee. Edmunds TMV lists it at $695 but is this based on where you live? If you roll this amount into the cap cost then is sales tax charged on the aquisition fee plus the negotiated sales price? Thanks so much for the help! This forum is a godsend for lease newbies.
  • cucocuco Member Posts: 36
    kyfdx,

      Thanks. Excellent information.

      I wish I had known about MSDs when I leased last month. I would have put it to use.

      That's why I keep checking for information on leasing at this site, eventhough I won't have to get a new lease for another 3 years.

       It doesn't hurt to be better prepared for next time.

       Keep up the good work!
  • fareedhasanfareedhasan Member Posts: 1
    re there any special leases for the 2004 or 2005 G35 2wd sedan. What would be a good lease for 36mos and 15K miles?
  • cjs2002cjs2002 Member Posts: 341
    well it looks like it'll arive tuesday night and I'll pick it up wensday... I posted the details on 661... wanted to say thankx for the help again :)
  • glazerglazer Member Posts: 1
    i have 16 months left on my leased 2002 toyota sienna. the payoff amount is $19,576. i think the car is worth about $15,000 book value. if i know i am keeping the car at the end of lease (high miles, need mini van) and have cash to pay for it now, should i pay it off now and avoid the interest in the lease payment?
  • mk2mk2 Member Posts: 27
    Hi Car Man,

    Could you let me know the residual value and money factor for 04/05 Pacifica AWD and 04 Pathfinder Special Edition. Also, I know there is a $1000 incentive for 05 Pacifica. Are there any incentives for 04 Pacifica?
      
    Please disregard my posts regarding Highlander. When leasing through Toyota, the residual is so low that it doesn't make sense for me to lease it.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    No. They want all the interest and fees you agreed to pay in the contract.
    They are not really interested in less money than what's owed in the contract.
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