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  • mister22mister22 Member Posts: 32
    Hi Car_man,
    Thanks for your response to my question about using rebates in leasing. To follow up, I am most interested in the 2005 Z71(2nd row captains, 3rd row, side airbags), but would like to see comparison MF's and Residuals (3yr, 12000 miles) on the Sequoia Limited 2WD and X5 3.0(sport, premium). I live in Louisiana and would register the car in Arizona. Are there any other lease terms that you see could make my monthly payment lower (ie 39, 42 month)? I have lease calculating software from www.carbuyingtips.com so I only need your expert resource for MF's and Residuals. I hate to build a relationship with a dealership only to find out that they are not being truthful with me about the residuals, MF's and any lease incentives. Thanks so much. We all appreciate the information you provide us.
  • colecole Member Posts: 67
    Thanks for the help... At least I was close...
  • powerbarpowerbar Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2000 Mazda Protege ES with 29,900 miles. The body and interior is in excellent! condition. The car, however, has recently developed 'wiring' problems in the brake system, which seems to be a problem with 2000 Mazda Proteges. The work is estimated to be $1200.

    I have one more year of payments left ($3000). And the blue book value is $7,500.

    Here is the question. Do I fix the car and keep it or do I sell it and get a leased car?
  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    My question to dealer:
    For 36/12K you are working with .0019 MF and 62% correct?

    Answer from dealer:
    Those are the correct numbers for a lease through Volvo, however Volvo makes the customer pay excise tax through their lease program which adds about $60 to your payment. US Bank has a lease program of .00214 and 61% with no excise tax rolled in.

    What'a an excise tax?

    Thanks!
  • stacey_burkestacey_burke Member Posts: 88
    an excise tax is a tax on any good brought into a country from another.
  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    yeah ok...so this adds on $60 per month?
    That's rediculous!
    Where does this fit into the lease formula?
  • stacey_burkestacey_burke Member Posts: 88
    I did not say it was should raise the price I only said what an excise tax is.
  • mazdax605mazdax605 Member Posts: 89
    We have excise tax here in Taxachusetts.It is basically a road use tax that is payed to the town in which you garage the vehicle.In mass it is a set percentage of the value of the car,but the thing is they always value the car lower than it really is aside from on a lease.In that case you pay a percentage of the sticker price.It added $30 a month to my RX-8 lease and sales tax at 5% of the payment only added like $15 a month.
  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    I'm looking at a Volvo in Boston. But I'm from NJ. Does the excise tax still apply to my lease deal?
    I'm getting $1000 over invoice on a 2005 XC90, which is a great deal, but this excise tax won't make this such a great deal. Carman, any insight?
  • talancetalance Member Posts: 4
    Car_man, after giving the CTS some serious thought and after evaluating our needs, we are exploring other options and are interested in the XUV. I saw that you gave out some August data but to check back after Sept. 8th. Do you have new GMAC lease program info for the 2004 and 2005 XUV? Also, can you give me the current program info for the '05 Chevy Equinox? Also, when we talked to a Cadillac dealer, he was saying that part of the total due at signing would be tax on the $2000 of extra discounts and incentives...does that sound right? It just seemed strange to me. Thanks for all the help...may be back for more info if we change course again.
  • sarabaysarabay Member Posts: 9
    I've been offered the following lease:

    No money down
    Cap Cost $22,400
    Residual $12,000
    Money Factor .00183
    Length 42 months
    Payment $358 per month

    The payment comes out a little higher than my calculation, but only by a few dollars.

    Does this sound like a fair deal? (Yes I'm aware of the 0 percent financing, but I prefer not to buy it and cannot really afford a $430 per month car payment, which is what I've been quoted if I buy.

    Thank you.
  • will2702will2702 Member Posts: 13
    Mazdax605 (chris),
    You got a good deal or should i say a good dealership that didn't try to hide the incentives. Not only that, at the time of your purchase your residual was higher and MF was lower. Thanks for letting me know that it is possible.
  • mfccoachmfccoach Member Posts: 3
    Hello:

    I am in the process of trying to lease a 2005 Grand Prix GTP. The three lease offers I have received are very similar (within $5 per month);

    MSRP: 30,375
    Price: 28,075
    Acquisition fee: 595
    Lease Rebate: 500
    Residual: 17,010
    Rate: 3.5%
    Downpayment: 1,500
    Monthly lease (includes 9% tax): $404
    Term: 36 Months

    2 Questions...

    1 - Is this a reasonable deal?
    2 - GM website shows $2,000 in incentives on this car, but all three dealers are stating that the incentives are for purchase or finance only, not for leases. Am I getting snowed here? If so, any suggestions?

    Thanks for your help!

    --mike
  • mister22mister22 Member Posts: 32
    Hey Car_Man,
    I have ready MANY of your posts for the FX35, but I know lease terms change so can you give me the best two lease terms on a 2004 FX35 RWD (between 36-48 months, 10000 miles per year) and their residual % and MF (Louisiana). Also, I'm not being charged a security deposit nor an acquisition fee, but there is a "bank fee" of 550.00. Is any of this peculiar? What should my target price be in relation to invoice at this point in the model year (I've reviewed TMV) (MSRP 44030; Invoice 39981)? Their offer was 41900. Do you have any figures on the 2005? Thanks so much.
  • mazdax605mazdax605 Member Posts: 89
    Hey copper,Will you be registering the car in MA or NJ?It matters because if it is MA then the excise tax will apply,but if you register it in NJ then it will not.If you can register it in NJ I would do that to avoid the excise tax.Good luck.Welcome to Taxachusetts.

    Chris
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for the additional information, nbty. If you were to lease a 2005 Volvo XC90 T6 through Volvo Finance this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00154 and 63%, respectively.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, jbl1. The only reasons why this model's lease money factor would be higher than the .00070 that I quoted you earlier are if you are having its lease security deposit or acquisition fee waived. BMW FS allows the waiver of its security deposit requirement in exchange for a .00010 increase in the money factor that is used to calculate your vehicle's lease payment. I believe that there is a similar .00010 to .00015 adder if you want to have BMW FS' required $525 acquisition fee waived. I suspect that the dealer that you are working with is indeed marking-up BMW FS' base lease money factor in an effort to add additional back-end profit to your deal. BMW dealers are notorious for doing so. As long as there is a little competition for your business in your area, your dealer should be willing to lease you this model using the base factor after a little negotiating.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, fxfan1. I'm looking forward to hearing how everything turns out.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, mister22. Let's take a look at the current lease programs for the models that you are interested in. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 Chevrolet Tahoe through General Motors Acceptance Corp. this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease rate and residual value should be 5.5% and 56%, respectively. As you can see GMAC publishes what are known as lease rates instead of lease money factors for the vehicles that it leases. Lease rates can be converted into approximate money factor equivalents by dividing them by 2400. So a lease rate of 5.5% would be equal to a money factor of around .00229.

    I do not believe that Toyota is providing any sort of lease support on the 2004 Sequoia in your area at this time. If this is indeed the case, and you were to lease a one through Toyota Financial Services, you would have to use its standard lease money factor. The last time that I saw it TFS' base standard money factor was .00215 for most of the country for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier. Its 3 year, 12,000 miles per residual value for an '04 Sequoia Limited 2WD is currently 55%.

    Last but not least we have the 2004 BMW X5 3.0. If you were to lease this truck through BMW FS right now for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base money factor and residual value should be .00100 and 60%.

    Generally speaking, the longer you lease for, the lower your monthly payment will be, assuming that any lease support that is available on the model that you are considering is available for the longer term. This is because new vehicles experience their highest rate of depreciation during the first 12 months of ownership. By leasing for a longer term, you can spread this initial depreciation hit out over a larger number of payments. You should be able to lease the X5 for 42 months and still take advantage of the lease support that is available on it. I believe that the next longest lease term that is available on a Tahoe lease through GMAC is 48 months. You should be able to lease an '04 Sequoia through TFS for 39 months. All of these terms would provide you with a lower lease payment, but obviously commit you to these vehicles for a longer period of time.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, cole. I'm always glad to help.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi powerbar. Your user id makes me think of the Metrex protein bar that I had yesterday. I believe that it was "Peanut Butter Cookie Dough" which sounds good, but let me tell you it tasted like sawdust. Yuck. OK, back to the wonderful world of leasing. I don't think that there is a right or wrong answer to your question. Whether or not you should lease a new vehicle all depends upon how badly you want something new. It's difficult to say whether you will continue to have problems with your Protege if you spend $1,200 to fix its current issue. Assuming that nothing else major goes wrong with your car after you get the wiring problem fixed, your least expensive option would be to continue driving it for another couple of years. Of course, to many of us who visit Edmunds.com new vehicles are like an alluring Siren that keeps calling to us, tempting us, so I can certainly understand your desire to get a new vehicle. There is nothing wrong with doing so, it just would not be your least expensive avenue if your current vehicle proves to be reliable.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey copper. Excise taxes are governmental levies on specific goods produced and consumed inside a country, like a special tax on alcohol or tobacco products. They are different than sales tax which typically applies to all commodities other than those specifically exempted. Tax laws vary from state to state. If you let me know what state you are in, I should be able to give you an idea of what the laws are like in your area, or at least refer you to a Web site that has the information. I don't see why a lease through Volvo Finance would have different taxes on it than a lease through any other bank though.

    Car_man
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    P.S. I see that you mentioned that you are in Boston in a later post. Try looking at these Web sites for more information on the taxes that are charges in your state: Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles or Massachusetts Department of Revenue.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    I have seen this model's current lease program, talance, and I would be more than happy to help you out. However, in order for me to do so, I need you to tell me how long you plan on leasing for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive. Once I have this info I will be able to help you out.

    Generally speaking, customer cash incentives are taxed, while dealer cash incentives are not. Having said this, tax laws vary from state to state. It is difficult for me to say whether you would have to pay this tax at lease signing. you let me know what state you are in, I should be able to give you an idea of what the laws are like in your area, or at least refer you to a Web site that has the information.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Greetings, sarabay. It would be much easier for me to evaluate this lease if you provide me with this car's full MSRP. Doing so will enable me to see what sort of a discount you were able to negotiate and to calculate a sample lease payment for you.

    Car_man
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  • kssod1kssod1 Member Posts: 50
    I need some help in understanding how a lease is calculated and whether I should lease or purchase a new MDX Touring with RES.
    I think a lease is calculated by taking the price minus the residual value then calculating a standard loan for the lease period at the money factor equivalent interest rate ( mf x 2400), is this correct?
    Scenario 1: Purchase, asume negotiated price is 500 over invoice and I apply all equity from my 2000 Odyssey approx 13.5k and finance over 5 years at 4.1%
    Scenario 2: Same cap reduced price ie 500 over invoice and leased for 36 months but no additional cap reduction.
    What do you pay tax on in a lease?
    Is it better to roll the equity into a new vehicle purchase, or cash out the equity and lease?
    At 36 months does the equity in the purchased vehicle under the above scenario equal what i would save by leasing and not putting any money down?
    Any insight or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

    kssod1
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello Mike. I noticed that the dealer that you are working with asked you to make a $1,500 down payment on this lease. I always tell consumers to lease without making any sort of down payment. Consumers can lease any vehicle that they want to without paying anything at lease signing other than its first month's payment, security deposit, and acquisition fee. I suggest that consumers not make any sort of capitalized cost reduction for two main reasons. The first is if your leased vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen and not recovered during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So this Grand Prix's lease-end purchase price would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put $1,500 down or had made absolutely no down payment at all.

    As far as this specific deal goes, as long as the selling price that you were quoted is not taking the down payment that this dealer asked for or the lease cash into account I would say that it is a pretty good deal. The $2,000 customer cash that General Motors is providing on the '04 Grand Prix can not be used on GMAC leases. The only cash incentive that is available if you lease through GMAC is the $500 that your dealer already told you about.

    Car_man
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  • sarabaysarabay Member Posts: 9
    The Edmunds MSRP is $25,025. Thanks.
  • sarabaysarabay Member Posts: 9
    One thing I forgot to mention, Carman. I have excellent credit(790 Beacon)--does the money factor of .00183 sound right? The dealer wants to used Huntington for the lease rather than VCI--says I can get a better deal.
  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    Mazdax605...

    That'a exactly what I wanted to hear. The car will be registered in NJ or maybe NY. Still haven't decided. With your taxes, I don't think I'll be moving to Mass anytime soon. Thanks for your help!

    Copper
  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    Carman,
    I'm looking at a car in Boston, but I will be registering it in NJ. It turns out that I will not have to pay the Excise tax because I don't live in Mass. Do you concur? I would like to get an official judgement here. You are official right? :)

    Copper

    UPDATE: I looked at the website you gave me and it says only MASS residents need to pay the excise tax. YAY!
  • mazdax605mazdax605 Member Posts: 89
    Hey Copper,

    I was 99% sure you would not have to pay the excise tax on it if it were registered in another state.I wonder why you are getting a car here but you are from NJ.School maybe?

    Good luck,in your dealings,and welcome to Taxachusetts.They don't call it that for no reason.Oh yeah we have high insurance rates as well,and the fact that there is no such thing as discount insurance here.We all pay the same amount.No Geico insurance here.I hope you enjoy/enjoyed your stay here in our fine commonwealth(yeah right commondebt is more like it).
  • mazdax605mazdax605 Member Posts: 89
    On another note I would not register it in NY because of what I have read on here about many lenders not wanting to lease cars to residents of NY due to their liability laws.The best bet would be to get it registered in NH they have no sales tax,but I am not sure of the excise tax.They may or may not have that but I doubt they do.

    Chris
  • dadyodadyo Member Posts: 3
    I am looking at getting an Audi A4 convertible, not sure if it will be the 1.8 or 3.0). My trade has been valued at $30k, so there is substantial equity. I am trying to figure whether it is better to cash out the equity (and set it aside) and do a lease, or purchase the car. I generally swap cars about every 3 years and put about 18,000 miles a year on them. Any help is greatly appreciated.
  • talancetalance Member Posts: 4
    Sorry Car_man, I should know better ...We are in Michigan and are looking at 36 months with either 12k or 15k per year. We will probably be putting somewhere between 12k and 15k on the vehicle per year as one of us has a very long drive and the other has a very short drive, so we can switch vehicles from time to time to keep mileage in check. Is it usally less per mile to pay for the miles up front and go with a 15k lease? I guess it falls into that area of calculated risk?
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    If $70 per month is going to make the difference between afford and can't afford maybe you need to look at less car.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,456
    "Is it usally less per mile to pay for the miles up front and go with a 15k lease? I guess it falls into that area of calculated risk?"

    The residual change for moving from 12K to 15K is usually 2% of MSRP.. So, on a $30K car, figure that at $600 over a 36 month lease. That is 6.7 cents/mile. If you use the miles, that is as cheap as you'll ever buy them... If you only use half of the extra miles, then your cost per mile effectively doubles.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    I'm getting the car there because of the great deal that I was quoted. I don't mind the drive up there to pick it up. Nice place to visit...wouldn't want to live there.

    Volvo finance only charges only an extra $100 to lease in NY.

    Copper
  • ollie1ollie1 Member Posts: 1
    Dear Car-Man:

    I have 5 more months on my 39 month lease for a 2002 Mercedes Benz E320 4matic. I have 42,500 miles on the car and have a 15K mile/year lease. February 16, 05 is my last payment and the car goes back in March if I stick with it to the end. I am allowed to go up to 48,750 miles on my lease and will have no problem staying under that.
    The front tires are shot and it will cost $250 to replace them. I really do not want to put any more money into the car.
    I decided I am buying a 2003 or 2004 Audi A4 Cabriolet 1.8T.

    Is it better to wait for the lease to be over to do anything? Or, is it financially prudent to get out of the lease now and purchase a CPO Audi?

    Help!

    Thanks,
    Ollie1
  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    Carman,

    I got a deal of $200 above invoice for a 2005 Volvo XC90 2.5T. This is an unbelievable deal in my opinion for a new model year car. The only problem is I don't want to take delivery until the end of October because that's when my current lease ends.

    The dealer told me I need to take the car by the end of this month to get this deal. In your opinion, should I take this deal now and eat the last payment on my current lease? Or is there a chance that I will find another deal like this next month? Are there incentives on these 2005's already?? Very strange that they are discounting them so early in the new model year.

    Thanks,
    Copper
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,456
    Well...you don't exactly have to "eat" the payment... Keep your new Volvo in the garage, and drive your other car until you turn it in.. That way, you'll save another 1000 miles on your new car...

    If it is really a great deal, you better grab it. Good deals sometimes will go away, if they are not completed in a timely manner.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Edmunds Price Checker
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  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    Easy for you to say!
    I'm trying to rationalize this for my wife.

    We are way under miles on every car we get...so saving 1000 miles will be a non-issue.

    I just got an email from another dealer "$300 above invoice for any XC90 on the lot." I'm thinking I won't have a problem getting the same deal next month.

    Copper
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,456
    Sorry..didn't realize you were leasing this one as well..

    What are the lease terms like? Obviously the selling price is very good.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Edmunds Price Checker
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    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

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  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    Easy for you to say!
    I'm trying to rationalize this for my wife.

    We are way under miles on every car we get...so saving 1000 miles will be a non-issue.

    I just got an email from another dealer "$300 above invoice for any XC90 on the lot." I'm thinking I won't have a problem getting the same deal next month.

    Copper
  • mazdax605mazdax605 Member Posts: 89
    Hey copper,What dealer are dealing with up here in tax land?I was wondering how you could get such great deals up here on a volvo.I would guess your local dealer could match any offer you get from a place in Massachusetts.It is a long drive (all depends on where in NY you are)to get a car you can get locally.Is this model more popular therefore less available in NY?Just curious.
  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    I'm dealing with Lee Volvo.
    I walked in to my local dealer (I'm in NYC) and he gave me a quote of $800 off MSRP and said they aren't discounting 2005's. Naturally I walked out.

    Then I read on another board that Lee Volvo was giving $300 above invoice or something like that. So naturally I contacted them and got the same deal. So I just thought that you Massachusettsians don't know any better.

    Then this afternoon I got an email from a dealer in PA, he also said $300 above invoice. So something is going on with Volvo for them to start discounting the 2005's so early. hhhmmm
  • sarabaysarabay Member Posts: 9
    Sorry-but I don't get your point. I can afford to lease a Passat and I prefer to lease, so what exactly is the problem?
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    There is no problem. However you stated the you CAN afford $360 but CAN'T afford $430 per month to buy the same car? $70 per month isn't that large of a difference. If $70 does make that much of a difference in your monthly budget then you should look to a less expensive car to allow more room for error and emergencies.
  • rwright325rwright325 Member Posts: 2
    Car_Man: thank you for the recent 2004 325CI lease numbers on a 3 year, 10,000 miles per year lease (.002 and 58%). Since I noticed the $1500 dealer cash (through 9/30/04) on the 325I, can you also provide the residual and money factor for a 2004 BMW 325I for 3 years, 10,000 miles per year? Also, should I be aiming to negotiate the cap. cost as Edmunds TMV minus the $1500 dealer cash or does the Edmunds TMV value already include this incentive? Thanks.
  • n_kolodziejn_kolodziej Member Posts: 2
    My dad is considering the G35 coupe and the Saab 9-3 Aero. I have heard so much about the G35 everywhere and everything it that has been said about it is good. It also has pretty good residual value. This is the car i think my dad should get. However, the other day he test drove a Saab 9-3 aero and loved it. Unlike the G35 I have heard nothing about the Saab. The only thing i know about it is that it doesn't look near as nice as the G35 and doesn't have near as good residual value. Which would be a better lease, the G35 or the 9-3 Aero?

    Thanks
  • sarabaysarabay Member Posts: 9
    It's a little complicated. I suppose I could afford the higher payment, but psychologically I'd prefer not to exceed $400 for a car payment. I'm also buying a Jetta coming off-lease (another whole story) and would prefer not to own two cars. I realize on a practical level it is better to own than lease, but it has never worked for me--I won't keep a car that long. I always get sick of it before it's paid for and usually break even when I get rid of it. I also find myself paying maintenance, repair and car payments at the same time after the warranty is up. The lease will only be in effect while it is warrantied. I get dealer cash/lower price with lease--higher price with the 0 financing. And without the 0 financing, the payment is way up in the $400s. I have not been able to get invoice with the 0 percent financing. (No dealer cash back)

    Now I'm starting to think that maybe I should buy, but I'm not negotiating hard enough:-)
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