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  • mzinzimzinzi Member Posts: 33
    Hi CarMan,

    A couple of days ago you provided me with information regarding the 2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Limited Sedan. You stated the numbers for a 39 month/15K lease to be 49%, a .00080 Money Factor, and $1500 in lease cash. Well, the dealer I am working with is agreeing with me on the residual and the lease cash, but he is quoting a Money Factor of .00155. Can you please verify for me that the MF for a 39 month/15K lease in October in CT is indeed .00080? Thanks as always!!!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    I am glad that you enjoy this discussion so much, John. Here is the information for the vehicle that you are interested in leasing. If you were to lease a 2004 Saab 9-5 Linear Wagon through Saab Financial Services Corp. this month for 3 years with 10,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00042 and 44%, respectively. Saab is providing $5,000 lease cash on this model that will help you to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost. SFSC's base lease acquisition fee varies depending upon what state one is in, but in most states it is $595. This wagon's security deposit would be equivalent to its monthly payment rounded up to the nearest $25 increment.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello wasabi911. Lexus is not currently providing any sort of lease support on the 2005 ES 330 in your area. As a result, if your mother was to lease one through Lexus Financial Services, she would have to use its standard lease program. The last time that I saw it, LFS' base standard lease money factor was around .00210 for any length lease. The 3 year, 15,000 miles per residual value for an '05 ES 330 without navigation should be 57%. It's 12,000 miles per year residual value would be 2% higher. Cars that are equipped with navigation have residual values that are 2% lower. It is difficult to predict what a manufacturer will do with its future incentives programs, but Lexus does usually introduce lease support on most of its models in December. If she is not in a hurry, it probably wouldn't hurt to wait until then to see if this car's lease program is any more attractive.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, slotmaker.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi brettv1. It probably is in your best interest to research and negotiate to lease your replacement vehicle before you physically turn in your old one. If you don't, you may be in a hurry to get a new vehicle so that you have something to drive and might end up settling for a deal that is not as good as you could have gotten had you shopped around a little bit.

    Current Chrysler Financial lessees are eligible for $1,000 loyalty cash that can be applied towards the lease of another DaimlerChrysler product through Chrysler Financial. You will need to inform the salesperson that you are working with that you are currently leasing your Jeep to qualify for this program.

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  • keeferbkeeferb Member Posts: 81
    Hi Car_man,

    Just wondering if you have seen the lease numbers for the 2005 Nissan Pathfinder yet. I'm interested in a 3 yr/45,000 mile lease.

    Thanks a bunch!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Greetings bfann. The lease money factors that you were quoted for this truck are right in line with American Honda Finance Corp.'s base money factors for it. This is a good thing. The reason why this model's money factor is higher for a 4 year lease is that Acura is providing lease support on it for leases of up to 3 years in length. Four year leases would have to use AHFC's standard money factor.

    Let's work up a sample payment on this MDX and compare it to the one that you were quoted. You never mentioned how many miles per year you are interested in leasing this truck with, so for now I will assume that we are talking about 12,000 miles per year. According to my calculations, the 3 year, 12,000 miles per zero down. pre-tax monthly payment for the truck that you described in your post should be around $500. With 15,000 miles per year, the payment would increase to around $520. The payments for 12,000 miles per and 15,000 miles per, 4 year leases of this model should be $488 and $503, respectively.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello momof2. I think that I did mention what the current lease program on the 2005 Toyota Sienna is like recently, but I have a hard time scrolling back to find specific posts as well. I have not seen Toyota Financial Services' residual value for this van recently, but I can tell you that its base lease money factor should be around .00225 or so. This is the most important number to know anyhow because vehicle's residual values are set by banks and dealers do not have any authority to alter them, unlike money factors.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi navigator2. Unfortunately, there is nothing that your dealer can do to get you out of the excess mileage charge that you have to pay. This is between you and the bank that you are leasing your truck through. Banks are usually not willing to negotiate excess mileage charges with consumers. There is no incentive for them to do so. As far as they are concerned, you drove the miles and you have to pay for them. The only to avoid paying an excess mileage penalty on a leased vehicle is to purchase your vehicle at the end of your lease.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi again, mzinzi. According to the latest informaiton that I have seen, this car's 3 year base lease money factor is indeed .00080. Manufacturers' incentives programs are subject to change, but I highly doubt that Subaru would more than double this model's base factor in the course of a month.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi keeferb. I believe that Nissan just officially announced the pricing for the 2005 Pathfinder a couple of days ago. I have not seen any sort of lease program for it yet. I suspect that Nissan will publish its lease program at some point within the next couple of weeks. Please feel free to check back with me and I will let you know if I have heard anything.

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  • momof2momof2 Member Posts: 2
    THANKS Car_Man!! You are greatly appreciated.
  • kat3697kat3697 Member Posts: 2
    Hi car man,

    Thanks for the answer on the Mercedes convertables leasing. Would it be a better idea to lease a Lexus430SC? I really like this car. Are their leasing plans better? I'm still not quite sure about leasing, someone told it would be better to lease since I usually buy a new car every 4 years, that I could save money that way is it true? Help me decide please.
  • njlnjl Member Posts: 32
    Slocko...how can I send you an email? When I click on your screen name, your email address comes up as private.

    Thanks
  • jack15jack15 Member Posts: 25
    topgun7...how much did the 9 payments add up to ? how are they figured ? sorry to be uninformed, first time leasing. congrats on the CLK.
  • jack15jack15 Member Posts: 25
    thank you. if we decided to negotiate our buyout at the end of the term, i imagine we would be fully refunded as well, correct? What is the typical percentage you may be able to negotiate off your residual at the end of your term, if you were able to "climb the ladder a rung" as you have suggested?
  • wasabi911wasabi911 Member Posts: 53
    Dear Car Man,

    Thanks for the info. My mom may wait until December for the annual promo.

    You're service has been a tremendous help.
  • tdevanetdevane Member Posts: 35
    Car_Man is there a way to find out the specific money factor and residual on each car without having to call the dealership? Not sure how easliy they give out this info. Also how does uping the mileage allowance affect this?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, momof2.

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  • dv8tordv8tor Member Posts: 23
    Hello,

    Who sets the Money Factor and Residual value in a lease? Dealer? Leasing company? Can the dealer tweak these values to their advantage? How do I know if I am getting the best deal? Can these be negotiated?

    I'm looking at a 2005 Honda Odyssey EX-L. I've been quoted a price of $30,810. Do you have money factors and residual values for the following terms?

    3,4,5yr/12k a year
    3,4,5yr/15k a year

    Thank you!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, kat3697. You sure are interested in nice cars. The problem with that is that they are also very popular vehicles which sell well without any sort of incentives or lease support being provided on them. Much like the Mercedes-Benz Convertibles that you mentioned in your previous post, Lexus is not currently providing any sort of lease support on the SC 430. As a result, if you were to lease one through Lexus Financial Services at this time, you would have to use its standard lease money factor, which I believe is around .00210. This is equivalent to an interest rate of around 5%, which isn't terrible, but isn't great either.

    Theoretically if a vehicle's residual values are set properly and the interest rates on these deals were the same, one would come out exactly the same by financing a vehicle and selling it after four years as they would if they had leased it for four years. The only way that one would come out ahead by leasing instead of purchasing is if they were interested in a vehicle that has special low lease money factors or unrealistically high residual values available on it. This is not the case with any of the models that you have expressed interest in. There's nothing wrong with leasing them, but it is not any more attractive than financing or paying cash.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, jack15. You are correct, if you were to purchase your leased vehicle at the end of your term you definitely would get all of the additional security deposits that you made on it back. In fact, since one does not have to pay excess mileage or excess wear and tear charges when they purchase their leased vehicle, the bank that you are leasing through would not be able to keep any of your significant deposit.

    It is difficult to generalize about how much banks are willing to lower the lease-end purchase prices of vehicles. If I had to make an educated guess, I would say that a "typical percentage" that one would be able to negotiate off of their leased vehicle's purchase price is 0%. More often than not, banks will not lower the selling prices of leased vehicles. Having said this, some banks occasionally will so it is definitely worth investigating.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, wasabi911. I'm glad that you find this discussion so helpful.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Tdevane, there really isn't any way to know the exact lease money factor and residual value that the dealership is using to calculate your lease payment without asking them. They may be hesitant to provide you with this information, but you definitely need to find out because it impacts how much of your hard earned money you have to spend to get the vehicle that you want. There are lots of Toyota dealers in the U.S. While they aren't known for the best customer service, I am sure that you will be able to find one that is willing to be straight with you.

    In answer to your question about Toyota's residual values, vehicles leased through Toyota Financial Services with 15,000 miles per year typically have residual values that are 2% lower than vehicles leased through it with only 12,000 miles per.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi dv8tor. Vehicles' lease money factors and residual values are set by the bank that you are leasing through. Individual dealers to not have any authority to alter banks' published residual values, however most banks allow dealers to mark-up their base money factors to add additional back-end profit to deals. Any additional money that is earned by the bank from this mark-up is kicked back to the dealer. I am usually able to provide consumers with an idea of what the base lease money factor should be like for the vehicle that they are interested in. It is in your best interest to know what it is prior to entering into negotiations.

    As one might imagine with a brand new model like the 2005 Odyssey, Honda is not currently providing any lease support on it at this time. So if you were to lease one through American Honda Finance Corp. right now you would have to use its standard lease program. Its current base standard lease money factor is .00250 for 3 year and .00225 for 4 year terms. Five years is way to long to lease a vehicle for. A lot can happen over the course of five years. Let's say that you move or change jobs during that time, you could end up going way over your allowed mileage and end up owing an excess mileage penalty of thousands of dollars. Furthermore, I believe that the Odyssey comes with a 3 year / 36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty. That means that if you were to lease this van for 5 years and anything was to go wrong with it after your warranty expired, you would have to pay for it out of your own pocket, or possibly face a lease-end penalty for excess wear and tear.

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  • dv8tordv8tor Member Posts: 23
    Hi Car_man!
    Thank you very much for that much needed information! Would you happen to have the residual values (3 and 4 years) for this vehicle from American Honda Finance as I will use them as my guide.
    Thanks again!
    dv8tor
  • slockoslocko Member Posts: 111
    NJL,

    Find me at the other ody forum and PM there. I have no idea how you send someone a private message in this forum and I rather not enable my email.

    I use the same screen name over there.
  • tdevanetdevane Member Posts: 35
    Thanks for all the info. Do you know what the base lease money factor should be on a 4runner limited v8 4 wheel drive.

    Also I'm considering this lease on a Murano but without the money down. What are your thoughts on this lease?

    2004 Murano SL AWD w/Touring, Cargo, Mats and Splash — 42 MONTHS — $349/MONTH — $1,999/INITIAL PAYMENT
     
    Excludes taxes, title, license and options. $1,999 initial payment required at consummation. (Includes $1,650 consumer down payment, $349 first month payment, $0 security deposit).

    Monthly payments total $14,651.70. At lease end, purchase for $19,605.60, plus $150 purchase option
  • uafly1uafly1 Member Posts: 25
    Is the BMW owner's choice a good deal or not? I am in a situation where I need to buy a car unexceptedly. I would prefer lower payments and so I am looking in to the BMW owner's choice, but I am curious to hear any information availabe on it.

    Thanks
  • infinitimninfinitimn Member Posts: 146
    Hi Car_man, one more question. Please provide the MF and 36 month 12K residual for a Subaru Outback LLBean or VDC. I still can't decide which vehicle I will lease.
  • liannellliannell Member Posts: 47
    Carman, I just wanted to say thanks for all the info! I don't know how anyone makes an informed lease decision without consulting you first...
  • eclipse2eclipse2 Member Posts: 64
    The MSRP is 48,700 what is the best way to get this done car man? this is my 1ST Time trying leasing.... thanks
  • mcrkitekmcrkitek Member Posts: 1
    just got back from my local bmw dealer, and am exhausted. tried to negotiate a lease on a 2004 bmw 330cic but found myself unprepared and had to leave. msrp 49,650, I offered 46,750 (invoice 45550) 3yr. 10k yr. lease. first they came back with a payment of 635 mo., 2nd go around 530 a month. they also kept the money factor they used to themselves. In order for me to negotiate a good lease I would like to know what the money factor is and if there are any incentives on this vehicle?
  • hpoohhhpoohh Member Posts: 35
    Thank you Car_man,

    so i am looking at
    04 325i 36mo 10k/yr 0.00220 62%
    04 Z4 2.5 36mo 10k/yr 0.002 53%
    05 C230K Sport Sedan 36mo 10k/yr 0.00225 50%

    Sounds like the 325i is the best deal (last model year tho)
    the Z4 has residual of 53% is acceptable since the residual is calculated based on the MSRP (before the $5000 dealer cash)
    But it seems like the C230K sedan's residual is really bad at 50%, do you have any idea why? Do you think it's because the redesign in 06 or 07 or simply the I4 supercharged engine's reliability issue?

    By the way, may i know where do you find out all these residual and money factor data? is that published somewhere? i hate to request this type of information when i could get it somewhere.
  • hpoohhhpoohh Member Posts: 35
    http://www.vw.com/vwcom/content/apr/incentive.htm?section=jettaGL- I_lease2005

    $229*/month
    39-month lease 10k/yr
    $1,804 due at signing

    sound like a very good deal as the Accord and Camry are both at around $259.00 12k 36mo

    Could you find out the money factor, i think it should be less than 0.001 or the payment wouldn't be that low. Do you know if there is any tricks?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, dv8tor. Unfortunately, since the 2005 Odyssey is a relatively new vehicle, I have not seen its residual values yet. This isn't a big problem for you because dealers do not have any authority to alter banks' published residual values anyhow. You can always find out this van's residual by asking the dealer that you are working with. The money factor is the most important number to know when negotiating because dealers usually do have the ability to change it.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, tdevane. Toyota's lease program varies depending upon which one of its 12 regions one is in. As a result, I can not give you an accurate idea of what this truck's current program is like without knowing what state you live in.

    I am familiar with the lease that Nissan is advertising on the 2004 Murano right now. It is a pretty good deal. I think that Nissan is already factoring in a fairly reasonable discount into this payment, but like most manufacturers' advertised leases, if there is a decent amount of competition for your business in your area you may be able to negotiate a slightly better selling price than the one that was used to arrive at this payment.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello uafly1. BMW Financial Services' Owner's Choice program is offers consumers what is known in the industry as a balloon notes. Balloon notes are very similar to leases in that they provide consumers with a low monthly payment an an option to purchase their vehicle at the end of a specific period of time for a predetermined price. The main difference between balloon notes and leases is that with leases the bank's name is on your vehicle's title, while with balloon notes yours is. Balloon notes used to mainly be written in states which have funky tax laws, like Texas, but they have gained quite a bit of popularity recently in states that have vicarious liability issues, like New York.

    Much like with leases, one can not generalize about whether a balloon note is a good deal or not. Whether it is depends upon the specifics of each deal, like what interest rate is being charged, what the vehicle's selling price is, what its residual values are like, etc...

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Sure thing, infinitimn. Subaru's lease program may vary slightly depending upon what part of the country one is in. In your area, I believe that if you were to lease a 2005 Subaru Outback LLBean through its captive finance company right now for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be around .00140 and 56%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2005 Subaru Outback VDC should be a similar .00120 and 56%.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks, liannell. I'm glad that I was able to help you out.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Since this is your first time leasing, you definitely should check out the following articles that are available here at Edmunds.com: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment. They are very informative and will point you in the right direction. Once you have read them, I would be more than happy to answer any specific questions that you have.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Wow, the BMW dealer that you are working with dropped the initial payment that they quoted you by by $100 bucks?!? They must have been trying to make quite a killing with their initial quote. I just worked up a sample lease payment on this car using BMW's base lease money factor, an MSRP of $49,650 and a selling price of $46,750 and according to my calculations, this car's zero down, pre-tax payment would be right around $588. I used a money factor of .00140 to arrive at this payment. As you can see, the second monthly payment that you were quoted definitely looks attractive, provided that it is still based on a 3 year term.

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  • uafly1uafly1 Member Posts: 25
    Thanks for the information. I actually go really lucky on my trade-in so I should be able to buy. I am just exploring my options.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, hpoohh. You're right, the C230K definitely has some pretty low residual values. It is difficult to say why this is the case, but BMW Financial Services usually tends to be a little more generous with its residuals than Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp. does, so perhaps MBCC's residuals are realistic and BMW's are just too high. I am not aware of any source that provides accurate money factor and residual value data to the general public.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey hpoohh. The 2005 Volkswagen Jetta GLI Sedan has an outstanding lease program available on it right now. In fact, VW Credit is providing the lowest possible lease money factor, .00001, on it this month. That's about as close as one can get to 0% financing on a lease. Not only that, but Volkswagen is also providing $500 lease cash on this car that will help consumers to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, uafly1. Good luck in your negotiations and let me know if you have any other questions.

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  • tdevanetdevane Member Posts: 35
    Thanks..I live in Maryland. I like the 4runner and the Murano but the 4Runner lease i was quoted is like $680 and the Murano is like $334..Big difference.
  • eclipse2eclipse2 Member Posts: 64
    I know you say 36 month lease is better but what about a 42 month lease the dealer says I could get it for about $1,000 lest then the MSRP not the invoice because this is a new model RL, I never heard of that before! I just want to make sure I don't get taken by the dealer I live in NJ and I'm thinking about getting it in about 20 days or so I'm still checking other dealers. any help you can give on this?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,295
    How much do they want you to pay at lease inception? That $530/month might be the lowest payment I've ever seen on a 330Cic.. I'm curious to hear what your cap cost reduction payment is.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • alex123alex123 Member Posts: 36
    I am looking for current money factors for Audi - S4 TT or A4 I am not sure what is it going to be yet, but it is going to be an Audi
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