Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

andres3 · January 2017

jmonroe said:

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe said:
@imidazol97, calm down. I used to be a loyal GM only customer from my first used 1956 Chevy until my first throwaway in 2005, then I had a couple bad ones.
@j Chill pill yourself. LOL
Have you or anyone had any problems with other vehicle brands except GM? I recall friend's VW Jetta with the windows falling down into the doors early 200x's. That was minor because they, two different dealers, could never get the check engine light to stay off.
I see Hondas especially a few years old in the past with the clear coat streaking and coming off. Acquaintances down the street had one.

Check out the legroom on a Sonata/Optima 2014 and Malibu 2014: 34.6" and 36.8" (Edmunds figures). But with the stereotyping perpetuated by media and peer repetition many thing the Malibu was deficient in legroom. Not that it matters because they're both good cars, but my wife and I watched to see how many midsize vehicles had any adult in the rear at the drive through of the local ChickFilA--a thorough biased sample--and only 1 did. Others were empty or had children in rear. So legroom mattered little in rear.
I did have one car with an oil leak. My 98 leSabre leaked after 150,000 mi around the oil pan. May have been my fault because I had started using synthetic oil. It's an urban myth or reality that synthetic will open up seeps that had been sealed by normal oil.

Are there any stories of other cars, other brands?

If not, I'll tell you about the last Timex watch I bought...

https://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/sonata/2014/used/vin/?vin=5NPEB4AC9EH864247
https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/malibu/2014/used/vin/?vin=1G11B5SLXEF122218

All true but did it go on for more than a decade?

You lost me, how did back seat leg room get into the discussion of reliability?

jmonroe

That is a fair criticism of the Big 3, that they allow major flaws to go on and on and on for a decade or more.

I attribute it to not being embarrassed by sub-par product, to put it nicely.

They need a more "parts should never fail" culture and attitude.

andres3 · January 2017

stickguy said:
legroom is one thing where to me the numbers are meaningless, real world. Having a Sonata, and knowing how big the back seat area is, if the Malibu really has a couple more inches of legroom you should put in some jump seats like an old Checker and make a limo out of it.

where the front seat is set makes a huge difference. As does the height of the rear seat (do you legs go down, or out?). In reviews, they are not basing things on the numbers supplied, it is actually sitting in the car that matters. I like doing the "sit behind myself" test.

agreed though, you almost never see adults in the rear of a mid sized (well, full size to me!) sedan. One reason I am fine with something the size of the Jetta. still plenty of room in the rear for adults on occasion.

Backseat leg room isn't important, except when it is, sort of like Auto Insurance.

However, I have visitors in the back seat of the Kia Optima far more often than I have Lexus's successfully crashing into me.

andres3 · January 2017

driver100 said:
Large back seats.....the Passat is hard to beat, it was like a limo in back. The downside for the Passat, was lack of power for todays highways, otherwise a fine car.

Most cars today are pretty good, it just depends on what is important to you and what your budget is.

Most of my GMs from 1979 Cutlass to 92 Cavalier were OK, no major problems, but the 88 Corsica kind of fell apart at 50k miles. It was very minimal and cheap too. The 92 Cavalier was not an engineering masterpiece, but it was pretty good for a minimal model car....the 6 cylinder engine helped.

But we all had our bad experiences with Big 3 cars in the 80s and 90s, because most of us owned them, and it wasn't the golden age of auto manufacturing.

It was the Golden age for Toyota's and Honda's! Early 90's Honda's are the stuff of legends. Oh wait, they named an old Acura a Legend. Great cars. My father's '82 Accord 5-speed had some serious engineering. Too bad someone totaled it by rear-ending it at 50 MPH. It still ran and drove, but the frame was damaged.

andres3 · January 2017

sda said:

abacomike said:
I remember taking delivery of a brand new 1965 Chevrolet Impala SS Coupe in Maroon with black interior. I was at the dealership when they took it off the truck. I had waited 4 months for the car, which was a special order, because of the union strike against GM that year. It had the 327 cubic Inch V8 with red-stripe Tiger Paw Tires.

As they took it into the shop to have it PDI'd, I noticed that the car didn't "shine" right in the sunlight. I walked over to the car and the paint all over the car had lines and indentations in it like someone had walked around the car with a towel and it brushed up against all the paint when it was still wet - it was smeared - trunk, hood, sides, etc.

So I went to the General Manager who was a friend of my Dad's and he came out and looked the car over. All he did was shake his head. He checked to see how long it would take to get a replacement car built and delivered, and he told me it would take 3 months due to the backlog of orders they were trying to fill due to the strike.

He told me he would strip off all the paint and repaint the entire car for me. He gave me a car to use and a week later, I got a call from him telling me the car was ready. I drove over to the dealership and the car was sitting out in front. The overspray on the tires and parts of the chrome got my blood boiling. I showed the General Manager and he said there was no excuse for the way they repainted the entire car. He said he would have it done again. I called my Dad and he came over to the dealership, got his money back for what he paid for the car, and that was the end of the personal relationship between the General Manager and my Dad.

I drove an old Ford waiting for the body change on the Pontiac GTO in 1966. Dad and I went over to the Pontiac dealership and we bought a new 1966 Pontiac GTO 4 speed in red with black interior. That made up for the mess with that Chevy Dealership. I don't think my Dad ever spoke to that guy at the Chevy Dealership again. He seemed even more upset that I was.
You've had more than your share of bad luck of special ordering cars and having issues at delivery or soon there after! I've never special ordered a car. The closest to that I've experienced was having a dealer find a car in the color and equipment I wanted at another dealer in Atlanta and having them drive it up to Charlotte for delivery.

Try it, you'll like it. I really liked ordering my "custom" to specifications car. Only downsides are the following:

1) Waiting 3 months is a long time, first 2 were pretty easy, but the last month I was very eager and anxious. Like a kid waiting for Christmas to come.

2) When or if someone hits and ruins your beautiful car 4 months after you take delivery. (The delivery you waited 3 months for!).

graphicguy · January 2017

I think the '80s-'90s American brands were so poorly done, it wasn't a huge leap for either Honda or Toyota (and their lux brands) to up the ante significantly. Although, my Pontiac Grand Prix of that era were models of bulletproof reliability.

That gap is closed considerably.

I don't think there's a significant difference in quality and build between the countries of origin and brands anymore.

There does seem to be a lack of transparency and accountability in all of the brands these days, though.

Cases in point....

-GM "keygate"
-Acura Transmission issues
-VW Dieselgate (and maybe Mercedes, too)
-Toyota unintended acceleration...I don't know whether Toyota had any culpability in this or not. But, instead of telling everyone they would investigate with unbiased parties, originally they denied any customer concerns. It wasn't until the gov't was involved that they became more compliant in listening to their customers.

I don't know why car companies view it as "us" (customers) vs "them". We're their customer. I tell my folks all the time..."I never knew a company who went out of business by listening to their customers".

andres3 · January 2017

imidazol97 said:

PF_Flyer said:
With all the armor and how much it has to weigh, I wonder what's under the hood. You'd think it needs a reasonable 0-60 time
If that is to be the case, then Goodwin assumed the car would feature either a gasoline-powered Vortec 8.1-litre (490 cu in) V8 engine or a diesel-powered Duramax 6.6-litre (400 cu in) turbo V8 engine.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_state_car_(United_States)

I wonder if they have to meet EPA regulations the same as VW does.

dino001 · January 2017

graphicguy said:
I think the '80s-'90s American brands were so poorly done, it wasn't a huge leap for either Honda or Toyota (and their lux brands) to up the ante significantly. Although, my Pontiac Grand Prix of that era were models of bulletproof reliability.

That gap is closed considerably.

I don't think there's a significant difference in quality and build between the countries of origin and brands anymore.

There does seem to be a lack of transparency and accountability in all of the brands these days, though.

Cases in point....

-GM "keygate"
-Acura Transmission issues
-VW Dieselgate (and maybe Mercedes, too)
-Toyota unintended acceleration...I don't know whether Toyota had any culpability in this or not. But, instead of telling everyone they would investigate with unbiased parties, originally they denied any customer concerns. It wasn't until the gov't was involved that they became more compliant in listening to their customers.

I don't know why car companies view it as "us" (customers) vs "them". We're their customer. I tell my folks all the time..."I never knew a company who went out of business by listening to their customers".

Now we have a brand new Fiat-Chrysler dieselgate.

I also have a friend who got shafted by Nissan with melting dashboard. Even though it was an obvious systemic issue, their response depended on whether you were on warranty, or nor. Mercedes had some issue with engine, also systematic - same response patterns.

I think it's fair to say that all of those companies have to be compelled by an external force to properly tend to a systematic problem that revealed itself past warranty times. I guess they have a right to do so, but it does undercut their credibility as responsible operators.

nyccarguy · January 2017

28firefighter said:
Funny you guys are talking about credit, I just posted at CCBA.

I woke up this morning and someone had tried to apply for credit in my name at 4 different banks. I'd had a fraud alert on my profiles at all 3 bureaus due to some funny business with my wife's credit a couple months back and they still allowed the inquiries.

The person had the right name, an old address and the wrong social. Luckily they were all denied but I still had to call each bank to dispute them and have the inquiries removed. I've also taken the nuclear approach of freezing my profile with all 3 bureaus ($10 per bureau) and now have a PIN that allows access. Otherwise, no one can see it.

Damn! I didn't think you'd notice;)

andres3 · January 2017

fintail said:
I disagree. Maybe it is regional. In my area, people who bought for under 100K 40 years ago can easily be sitting on 2MM today. I sincerely doubt that kind of appreciation will repeat. Less than a mile from me, a teardown that sold for 50K in 1988 just brought 1MM even. It's surreal.

Even in less trendy areas like where my grandmother lives, houses in her area seem to average about 25x more in raw dollars, compared to when the area was developed around 50-55 years ago. Wages surely haven't risen that much in 50-55 years, but expenses definitely have. Even crazier, their first new house in Seattle is worth about 45-50x what it cost in 1950, and the empty nester house my great-grandparents bought around the same time is inflated even more.

I know few people in my age demographic who own a detached house within a reasonable commuting distance from work who bought without parental help. That seems to be a factor among those who talk about hard work and saving, though. It'll be rentals and condos for most around here, from now on.

houdini1 said:

Yes, and 40 years from now people will probably be talking about the lucky generation of your era who bought in back around 2017. Prices are not cheap today and they were not cheap 60 years ago, relatively speaking. Not many people could afford a $30,000. home back then. Just like today, they had to work and save for it.

Well, part of the problem with home prices is they were not allowed to correct due to the massive Bush and Obama bailouts of the banks holding the mortgages. The correction would have been a good thing. Oh well. Just another 1.4 trillion or so that directly benefited the 1% and baby boomers that owned property.

andres3 · January 2017

Michaell said:
@jmonroe - I know this doesn't apply to you, but the state of PA levies an additional 3% sales tax if you lease your vehicle. Makes the tax rate 9-10%.

Speaking of sports stadiums, look at what the residents of San Diego just did. Shot down a proposed hotel tax to help fund a new stadium for the Chargers. The owner then takes his team to a 27,000 seat soccer stadium in the LA suburbs, while waiting for Stan Kronke to build his $2 billion palace for the Rams.

While I feel for the Charger fans (my sister is one of them), I have to applaud their actions.

The Chargers are a terrible football team. I think the tendency to be a perennial loser factored into the votes.

sda · January 2017

When or if someone hits and ruins your beautiful car 4 months after you take delivery.

Sometimes it seems things come in threes. While I didn't special order my '95 Jetta GLX VR6, they were hard to locate. The black GLX that I was going to purchase had a flaw on the back bumper so I declined it. The dealer had just taken delivery of another identical GLX that was earmarked for the Charlotte Auto Show, so they sold that one to me and had a window sticker computer generated with my name on it as the original sticker said Autoshow. Long story short, about 1 month after I bought it my dad closed the right rear door with his hip, and put a huge dimple in the door. He felt awful and offered to pay, but given all the abuse I'd given his cars, I couldn't do that to him. I had that repaired and some dude bumps me in the rear and puts a license plate impression on my back bumper. He gave me his card, an attorney and said he'd take care of it. I was trusting, sent him an estimate and he was never to be heard from again. Meanwhile in heavy traffic the inside lane that I was travelling in came to a abrupt stop while a person behind me was merging from the left lane to mine and couldn't react fast enough to stop. Bang! Now the rear quarter was bent and the still damaged rear bumper was now ripped and ruined. I had that repaired, but the paint didn't match in color or gloss and the fit at the trunklid to the body was off. Strike three. I traded the car soon after.

ab348 · January 2017

andres3 said:

Well, part of the problem with home prices is they were not allowed to correct due to the massive Bush and Obama bailouts of the banks holding the mortgages. The correction would have been a good thing. Oh well. Just another 1.4 trillion or so that directly benefited the 1% and baby boomers that owned property.

I was almost a buyer for a brand-new house in Arizona in 2009 for $70K. You telling me that isn't a correction?

suydam · January 2017

Yes, many people who bought homes in 2006 or so now see them worth half that. That's a hell of a correction in my book.

dino001 · January 2017

My house corrected a lot. From $200K to below $100K, now back to around $130-$140K. One good thing about it is very low taxes - dropped to below $1000/year and by law the taxable value will now creep up at no more than 3% per year.

oldfarmer50 · January 2017

graphicguy said:
AB....understand your frustration with Sirius. Imagine mine with a $60K Cadillac that I can't use because it's in the dealer's repair shop for over a month.....

Don't know why, but every couple of months, I check my credit score through the free service AMEX offers with my business credit card. It hovers around high 700s-mid 800s. Not sure why it fluctuates, though.

My income is relatively stable. It changes a bit every quarter depending on bonuses and end of year raises (which finally started happening again the last few years), but has been pretty stable for awhile.

If someone is running a promotion on a major purchase (like the recent TV I bought), I may use my credit card if they're offering 0% financing given I don't write a lot of checks anymore, but pay it off by promotion's end.

What does fluctuate is my work travel expenses. Those can range from $1,000/mo to $10,000/mo, but those are on my AMEX which is paid off every month. So, that shouldn't matter.

I always think I should talk to my bank about those credit score fluctuations, but it's never important enough for me to remember to do so.

My credit score is in the same range and since I'm as poor as a church mouse it obviously isn't linked to income. They must program in some wierd algorithm that factors debt to income ratios, payment history and if you were nice to your mother.

The one thing that the credit agencies tell me keeps my score from being even higher is lack of mortgage history. I guess paying cash for your house doesn't count.

oldfarmer50 · January 2017

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:
When did we become so wimpy?

School is closed today, in fact all the schools in my upstate region are closed because we got an inch of snow and sleet overnight. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a day off with pay but 25 years ago my district would send us out in 2 feet of snow, ice storms or any of the biblical plagues. When did we get so weak?

An inch of snow?

I guess that is a mini-mini school bus.

jmonroe

That's what it looked like years ago when we had to shovel our way to the buses. Nowadays the picture would show staff weeping at the sight of one flake.

dino001 · January 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

My credit score is in the same range and since I'm as poor as a church mouse it obviously isn't linked to income. They must program in some wierd algorithm that factors debt to income ratios, payment history and if you were nice to your mother.
The one thing that the credit agencies tell me keeps my score from being even higher is lack of mortgage history. I guess paying cash for your house doesn't count.

Traditional score has nothing to do with income. It does not know your income, it's generated only based on the history and current debt. It factors on-time payments, type of credit (revolving vs. installment), its quality, quality of the lenders (big bank vs. buy here-pay here used car dealer), credit capacity (i.e. how much trust current creditors gave you), length and recency of the accounts. Your income is not a part of the score (credit scoring agencies do not have access to your income data, just employment history at best), but it's a second major factor (beside the score) put by a bank into their own formula (that's why they ask you for your income, whether stated or proven), to determine how much they would be willing to lend you (and at what rate). And yes, paying cash doesn't count.

There are now popping up alternative scoring algorithms that take into account wider set of behaviors, like paying utility bills, work history, etc. Those are reportedly helpful with evaluating people with shorter credit or those who lived in cash economy.

Below is a snip from my bank's credit score explanation.

andres3 · January 2017

driver100 said:

graphicguy said:

driver100 said:

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:
Is the car drive able? If so I'd go get it and do exactly as Stick says. Let the next person deal with it.

I did this with my 98 Olds 88 that leaked water inside from day 1. After 11 months of attempted repairs, I gave up a traded it in. Took a beating but it was what it was.

I can't bring myself to take a bath on it given none of it is acceptable.
Forget what kind of car you are favoring next. Maybe you can make a deal to trade it in for a low mileage car on their lot. Might give you a good deal just to be done with this farce.
Driver....interesting idea. I haven't even thought about what would take the place of the CTS. Moreover, I've never looked at their used inventory. They are standalone but are part of a much larger dealer group owned by one person.
If you swap for a Tohoe or Escalade chances are you will get a pretty dependable vehicle but, if you have a problem you can always trade it in and get top dollar for it.

This advice is dangerous given it presents the problems his current situation mirrors. Tough to trade in a car that is in pieces in the shop. I'd pay $1 for it.

andres3 · January 2017

murphydog said:
Shocking news here in Washington State - our lawmakers are looking to increase the penalty for left lane camping! I never understood why people fell compelled to stay in the left lane when there is a car behind them that clearly wants to pass - and I am not talking about times with there is moderate to heavy traffic. Safer for you and safer for them if you simply move right and keep the left lane clear.

Love this quote - “People will sit in the left lane … and they just won’t move,” he previously said. “You’re forced to pass on the right and then the person speeds up. Easy solution: Get over. If you’re not passing you should not be in the left lane.”

Doubt it will make any difference, but we shall see....

http://mynorthwest.com/521681/lane-camping-penalty/

LOL @ $70. It should be $700 first offense. Given how little it is enforced, the high fines are warranted if we want to enact real hope and change on our roadways.

I would say some progress has actually been made on this front in Southern CA the past 10 years. Not much, but a little.

dino001 · January 2017

The only excuse for lane camping may be very poor shape of the right lane. It happens. Otherwise, it should be punished. $700 is extreme. $70 would make you remember, if it becomes more enforced.

People crawling at 50 mph on left lane should be extinguished, and not moving away when a faster vehicle approaches from behind is also poor form, even if the approaching vehicle is above legal speed. I'm not one of those "120 mph is safe speed if I drive" guy, but common sense tells you should move away if somebody comes to your tale and the road is empty. However, I see no reason to move away if I'm going in traffic already 10 mph over the limit with vehicles all around, just because some hot shot thinks he's been anointed immortal and would like to go 100 mph+.

cdnpinhead · January 2017

In Arizona 20% of the people use directional indicators (turn signals), and maybe 10% of them turn into the proper lane at an intersection. Asking for lane discipline here is much like expecting dogs to sing opera.

Remember the mantra: Happiness = Reality - Expectations

My expectations are lower than low. My wife doesn't think it's a good plan, but I do.

dino001 · January 2017

Expect nothing and you shall receive exactly that. Moreover, if you receive anything, it will be a bonus.

stickguy · January 2017

Sounds like a lifetime of being a Mets fan!

Speaking of which, I wonder how Fezo is doing?

fintail · January 2017

I think it's different for those not on the west coast. There are places in this great country where houses are worth less than 20-25 years ago. In my area, and I assume in yours, we've shot past the Bush era peak, with maybe a minor leveling off (in price growth, not price) in sight - but I can't imagine price drops. Add to those lucky groups, it also benefits offshore "investors" who can buy property here with little vetting. Lots of empty houses and condos here just sitting, a place to park money.

andres3 said:

Well, part of the problem with home prices is they were not allowed to correct due to the massive Bush and Obama bailouts of the banks holding the mortgages. The correction would have been a good thing. Oh well. Just another 1.4 trillion or so that directly benefited the 1% and baby boomers that owned property.

driver100 · January 2017

dino001 said:
My house corrected a lot. From $200K to below $100K, now back to around $130-$140K. One good thing about it is very low taxes - dropped to below $1000/year and by law the taxable value will now creep up at no more than 3% per year.

Our taxes dipped too when property values went down by about 50%. What i don't get is if taxes go down so much, ours dipped 20 to 25%, how does the local government keep paying all the fixed costs of police, fire department, roads etc.............most costs continue or increase.

graphicguy · January 2017

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

graphicguy said:

driver100 said:

graphicguy said:

tjc78 said:
Is the car drive able? If so I'd go get it and do exactly as Stick says. Let the next person deal with it.

I did this with my 98 Olds 88 that leaked water inside from day 1. After 11 months of attempted repairs, I gave up a traded it in. Took a beating but it was what it was.

I can't bring myself to take a bath on it given none of it is acceptable.
Forget what kind of car you are favoring next. Maybe you can make a deal to trade it in for a low mileage car on their lot. Might give you a good deal just to be done with this farce.
Driver....interesting idea. I haven't even thought about what would take the place of the CTS. Moreover, I've never looked at their used inventory. They are standalone but are part of a much larger dealer group owned by one person.
If you swap for a Tohoe or Escalade chances are you will get a pretty dependable vehicle but, if you have a problem you can always trade it in and get top dollar for it.
This advice is dangerous given it presents the problems his current situation mirrors. Tough to trade in a car that is in pieces in the shop. I'd pay $1 for it.

I might take that, if you agree to tow it out of the dealership and split the money we could get by parting it out!

graphicguy · January 2017

I have been in my house for 20+ years. I had it built. I know exactly what I've got. So, even though it's way more house than I need (~3,000 sq ft), it's really my home. I had it built. I lived in it all that time. I raised my son in it. I paid for it. So, a little reluctant to leave.

So, I was a bit immune to the housing fluctuations. I didn't jump out of it when the market rose. I didn't take a bath when it fell. I didn't refinance when all my neighbors were, either.

All that said, prices didn't fall or rise as much in my 'burg as they did in those geographic areas near oceans and gulfs, either.

Mine has appreciated from 20 years ago. But, not as much if I had sold it in 2005. Nor, not as bad if I had sold in 2008.

Taxes have been stable. That said, I don't want to tempt fate and have an assessor come to my home to see what I've done to it on the inside, either. Value would go up, but so would my taxes.

Every once in a while I'm tempted to move to something small (say, 1/2 the size of what I have now). But, where would I put my home theater room? Would I have room for the Cobra? How about my deck? Would I get one of those? What if I find someone like Laurasdada did and move her in?

Think I'll keep what I've got.

oldfarmer50 · January 2017

dino001 said:
The only excuse for lane camping may be very poor shape of the right lane. It happens. Otherwise, it should be punished. $700 is extreme. $70 would make you remember, if it becomes more enforced.

People crawling at 50 mph on left lane should be extinguished, and not moving away when a faster vehicle approaches from behind is also poor form, even if the approaching vehicle is above legal speed. I'm not one of those "120 mph is safe speed if I drive" guy, but common sense tells you should move away if somebody comes to your tale and the road is empty. However, I see no reason to move away if I'm going in traffic already 10 mph over the limit with vehicles all around, just because some hot shot thinks he's been anointed immortal and would like to go 100 mph+.

I have to agree with that logic. If you are in heavy traffic and go to the third lane to pass but can't find and opening to get back to the right it's aggravating when another car comes up on your bumper and expects you to just fly away.

jmonroe · January 2017

Now I'm confused.

This link http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/10/westlake_man_has_one_of_the_hi.html says the highest possible credit score is 850 but when we bought the '15 Genny, Mrs. j had a score of 884, we even have a print out from the dealer showing this. I did not get a print out of my score because I forgot to get it before we left. However, when we were signing the paperwork I asked what mine was and was told it was about 7 points lower than Mrs. j's. I think this is because I have a Home Depot card that is only in my name. I haven't used this card for at least 12 years.

To add even more confusion I was told that the highest credit score is 900.

So, what is going on here?

jmonroe

dino001 · January 2017

driver100 said:

dino001 said:
My house corrected a lot. From $200K to below $100K, now back to around $130-$140K. One good thing about it is very low taxes - dropped to below $1000/year and by law the taxable value will now creep up at no more than 3% per year.
Our taxes dipped too when property values went down by about 50%. What i don't get is if taxes go down so much, ours dipped 20 to 25%, how does the local government keep paying all the fixed costs of police, fire department, roads etc.............most costs continue or increase.

It's a mystery... Some cities/counties have rainy day funds, others borrow money. Some will lay off people. They also find new sources of revenue by jacking up service fees.

There was so much BS spewed around when it came to property tax revenues coming from both state parties, it was hard to take. One was promising rollback of taxes to levels from year 2000 or so (and I mean revenues, not just rates), totally ignoring all new resident service needs, created by the boom in Florida (total nonsense), the other of course cried bankruptcy ignoring all that multiyear windfall that came from the new development that should have been put away. Essentially nobody was telling a speckle of truth, just like in the national politics.

dino001 · January 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:
The only excuse for lane camping may be very poor shape of the right lane. It happens. Otherwise, it should be punished. $700 is extreme. $70 would make you remember, if it becomes more enforced.

People crawling at 50 mph on left lane should be extinguished, and not moving away when a faster vehicle approaches from behind is also poor form, even if the approaching vehicle is above legal speed. I'm not one of those "120 mph is safe speed if I drive" guy, but common sense tells you should move away if somebody comes to your tale and the road is empty. However, I see no reason to move away if I'm going in traffic already 10 mph over the limit with vehicles all around, just because some hot shot thinks he's been anointed immortal and would like to go 100 mph+.
I have to agree with that logic. If you are in heavy traffic and go to the third lane to pass but can't find and opening to get back to the right it's aggravating when another car comes up on your bumper and expects you to just fly away.

Try in Germany - those guys have no patience there for 3rd lane occupants to point of being absurd. Middle lane is going 80-90 mph, you pass it a few mph faster and the guy behind you in a Porsche or V12 Benz gets tipsy. That's a bit far. At this point I was like "you can wait, I'm not blocking the road, I'm going 100 mph, don't care you think you can go 150".

dino001 · January 2017

jmonroe said:
Now I'm confused.

This link http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/10/westlake_man_has_one_of_the_hi.html says the highest possible credit score is 850 but when we bought the '15 Genny, Mrs. j had a score of 884, we even have a print out from the dealer showing this. I did not get a print out of my score because I forgot to get it before we left. However, when we were signing the paperwork I asked what mine was and was told it was about 7 points lower than Mrs. j's. I think this is because I have a Home Depot card that is only in my name. I haven't used this card for at least 12 years.

To add even more confusion I was told that the highest credit score is 900.

So, what is going on here?

jmonroe

Different scoring scales. Traditional FICO is up to 850, but there is also one newer scoring product up to 900 in use by some creditors. I also had one of my loans underwritten based on 900 point scale. So it's good to ask for the scale when they deliver the score.

7 point difference is statistical tie - it could be a Moon phase, your first name, or the guy you meet in preschool.

driver100 · January 2017

graphicguy
I have been in my house for 20+ years. I had it built. I know exactly what I've got. So, even though it's way more house than I need (~3,000 sq ft), it's really my home. I had it built. I lived in it all that time. I raised my son in it. I paid for it. So, a little reluctant to leave

Basically, you buy a home to live in. It isn't an investment, doesn't matter if the value goes up or down, you need a place to live. If prices are rising and you can get by with a smaller place, then it is a good time to sell...if you want the extra cash. If prices are low, that is a good time to trade up, if that suits your needs.

If you like your home, and it suits your needs, then there is absolutely no reason for putting yourself through pain and torture to try to live in a smaller less costly place. Your home is your home, no matter what happens in the marketplace.

driver100 · January 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:
The only excuse for lane camping may be very poor shape of the right lane. It happens. Otherwise, it should be punished. $700 is extreme. $70 would make you remember, if it becomes more enforced.

People crawling at 50 mph on left lane should be extinguished, and not moving away when a faster vehicle approaches from behind is also poor form, even if the approaching vehicle is above legal speed. I'm not one of those "120 mph is safe speed if I drive" guy, but common sense tells you should move away if somebody comes to your tale and the road is empty. However, I see no reason to move away if I'm going in traffic already 10 mph over the limit with vehicles all around, just because some hot shot thinks he's been anointed immortal and would like to go 100 mph+.
I have to agree with that logic. If you are in heavy traffic and go to the third lane to pass but can't find and opening to get back to the right it's aggravating when another car comes up on your bumper and expects you to just fly away.

Or even if you do move to the right because you can, the guy behind you in the left takes your place, and you are stuck in slow traffic in the right and you can't get back to the left because they have all moved up.....I hate when that happens! My new rule...if I am in the left, moving with the traffic, I keep my position in the left, no more mister nice guy!

jmonroe · January 2017

dino001 said:

jmonroe said:
Now I'm confused.

This link http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/10/westlake_man_has_one_of_the_hi.html says the highest possible credit score is 850 but when we bought the '15 Genny, Mrs. j had a score of 884, we even have a print out from the dealer showing this. I did not get a print out of my score because I forgot to get it before we left. However, when we were signing the paperwork I asked what mine was and was told it was about 7 points lower than Mrs. j's. I think this is because I have a Home Depot card that is only in my name. I haven't used this card for at least 12 years.

To add even more confusion I was told that the highest credit score is 900.

So, what is going on here?

jmonroe
Different scoring scales. Traditional FICO is up to 850, but there is also one up to 900 in use by some creditors. I also had one of my loans underwritten based on 900 point scale. So it's good to ask for the scale when they deliver the score.

Thanks @dino001, if I had to guess, that would have been my guess.

It would be interesting to know what our scores are now after financing the Genny. We only financed because the rate was 0.9 percent and we only financed just under 20K. I know you can get your credit "rating" free but to get the actual credit score "number" you have to pay 10 bucks (I think that is what I saw a few years ago when I checked with the 3 bureaus) but I'm not going to pay for that. Those bureaus are pretty sneaky trying to charge for the "number". There otta be a law. :@

I'd only like to know the "number" now out of curiosity but not bad enough to pay for it.

jmonroe

dino001 · January 2017

You don't get your score with credit card now? I get it from both Amex and Bank of America.

jmonroe · January 2017

dino001 said:
You don't get your score with credit card now? I get it from both Amex and Bank of America.

I didn't know that. Like I said, the last time I checked with all 3 bureaus (about 3 years ago) they charged for it.

We have both a Visa and Mastercard from Bank of America so maybe I'll ask them but if they charge, I'm not paying.

I don't want to ruin my credit score.

jmonroe

suydam · January 2017

You can get your credit score checked annually. It's free.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0155-free-credit-reports

stickguy · January 2017

a lot of people don't consider the cost of renting if you don't own your house. Hopefully the appreciation makes up for any extra costs along the way, but in many areas, rents on a SF are more than a mortgage. And decent houses, are not easy to find. Plus, when you have kids, you want to stay in one place usually. And make it your own. My wife would have freaked out if a landlord came along and told us to get out in 30 days because the house was being sold!

once we are fully empty nest, and move out of this place, I might consider a rental in a community but that would be a different situation for sure.

dino001 · January 2017

Self-initiated checking score doesn't change your score. My score estimate is posted on my BoA website, on the right hand side, as a perk benefit (same with Amex). All I need to do is click it.

jmonroe · January 2017

suydam said:
You can get your credit score checked annually. It's free.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0155-free-credit-reports

Thanks, @suydam. We are leaving now to go get dinner, I'll try that when we get back.

jmonroe

dino001 · January 2017

suydam said:
You can get your credit score checked annually. It's free.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0155-free-credit-reports

That's not a score. That's a free report, essentially a list of accounts and information on them (payments, standing, etc.). You have to buy a score, which is a single proprietary number evaluating your credit risk based on the information from the report (or get it as a benefit from somebody who already did).

Report - free (every 12 months, for each bureau)
Score - not free

jmonroe · January 2017

dino001 said:
Self-initiated checking score doesn't change your score. My score estimate is posted on my BoA website, on the right hand side, as a perk benefit (same with Amex). All I need to do is click it.

Thanks. I can try that too but I never checked my account info on line, never had a need to do that. Not sure how to do it but I'll play with it until it overwhelms me then I'll quit.

jmonroe

dino001 · January 2017

Interesting. I can't imagine my life without online access to all my accounts. Especially important when traveling overseas (every year for Xmas).

suydam · January 2017

dino001 said:

suydam said:
You can get your credit score checked annually. It's free.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0155-free-credit-reports
That's not a score. That's a free report, essentially a list of accounts and information on them (payments, standing, etc.). You have to buy a score, which is a single proprietary number evaluating your credit risk based on the information from the report (or get it as a benefit from somebody who already did).

Report - free (every 12 months, for each bureau)
Score - not free

True, but checking your credit report would alert you to any problem.

driver100 · January 2017

stickguy said:

once we are fully empty nest, and move out of this place, I might consider a rental in a community but that would be a different situation for sure.

Well, government can come and expropriate your home too, not just landlord.

I don't know if home prices will appreciate the way they did, baby boomers have gone through they cycle, millennials won't have the money or pensions to pay high house prices.

But, your home is your castle and there is something to be said for that.

One time to consider renting is when you are older and you can use the equity in your home to pay for rent, and to live off of......oh geez, why am I even thinking about this stuff

dino001 · January 2017

Home is a lifestyle choice. Good one, but it comes with costs. Overall renting will be cheaper, as it does not come with many costs of maintenance, remodeling, etc. Of course it comes with limitations as well, some of them very significant. Inability to modify the space to our liking, poor (cheap) choices made by landlords for house/apartment facilities (from lighting to appliances), etc. There is no wrong choice here.

However, home ownership was overpromoted as a wealth building vehicle, which it is not, IMHO. It's at best a forced savings vehicle for people who are otherwise incapable of saving any surplus money on their own. It introduces a discipline that they otherwise may not have, which over time will result in some equity (provided it's not blown into a second mortgage for a pool). This of course applies to situations with "normalized" cost of money (interest rates), which we have not had in many years now. Artificially low interest rates are skewing that calculus toward the ownership. However, the cost is also inflated prices, as many unqualified individuals will seek house that too expensive in "normal" world, but somehow OK in low rate environment, which on its own pushes the prices up, i.e. resets the equilibrium on higher level.

tjc78 · January 2017

Citibank gives you your credit score too, along with a graph to show you the ups and downs.

As for housing I bought in 2005, have put plenty of cash in and would still never get what I paid. Taxes have gone up about $1000 a year since I moved in. It is what it is I guess. At any rate we aren't going anywhere for a good while.

qbrozen · January 2017

We made fairly OK moves at this point. Bought our first in 2000 and sold it for nearly double in 2004. Of course that meant also buying a house in 2004 that is now worth about the same as we paid but we have put about $70k into it, so it is a loss. Still haven't been able to sell it and am in the process of evicting the tenants. I'm done being a landlord. Will sell at an even bigger loss if I have to just to be done with it.

tjc78 · January 2017

tjc78 said:

Citibank gives you your credit score too, along with a graph to show you the ups and downs.

As for housing I bought in 2005, have put plenty of cash in and would still never get what I paid. Taxes have gone up about $1000 a year since I moved in. It is what it is I guess. At any rate we aren't going anywhere for a good while.

Wow didn't realize this post was bad enough to be flagged. Lol

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